Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #70

Status
Not open for further replies.
  • #301
  • #302
AZ would like to remind NY that was attempted as a "work around" here when we first reopened bars back in May...

Thank you for that reminder from AZ. I am sure all this "success" that's going to our heads will come at another hefty price soon enough.
 
  • #303
Whether or not this plan exists, the proof is the pudding as to the actions to date. Actions (or lack thereof) and facts and stats and everything else speak for themselves. You can have the best plan in the world, but it’s useless if there is no implementation.

How anyone can justify our current state is just mind boggling to me.

From the posts I’ve been reading there’s zero trust in our leaders so would it really matter?
 
  • #304
We have a constitution, too.

And our states are responsible for their own decisions. Hence the closing of some states to other states. No-one told them to do that. It is their own directive.

However, what we are doing right .... all state leaders have been consulting together in National Cabinet (phone call meetings/online meetings/physical meetings when it is safe) where they plan strategy, work out their differences, and get on the same page.

This provides good cohesive leadership for us all to follow. It helps us reach a mutual goal that is good for the country.

Please remember that Australia is geographically as big as the US. People from different areas think in different ways, approach things in different ways, BUT cohesive leadership from all states are pulling the nation's approach together.


The Australian Constitution:
The Australian Constitution – Parliament of Australia

Quoting as I can't like this enough. I've been impressed at how well all our leaders have been working together. It really hasn't become political, thank goodness.
 
  • #305
What makes you think that Americans are not planning on getting Covid-19 under control? No one wants people to get sick or die from this disease.

There is a difference of opinion on things but I think the goal is mutual.

Until we have a vaccine or cure there must be a change in lifestyle for most of us. When a mayor is sued because he/she orders mask wearing, and a business refuses to shut down it can appear that actions are not being taken to get Covid under control.

Every child in school represents one or more households. How many first graders are going to social distance, especially when they cannot "see" the virus. MOO, is children are going to catch and carry this virus home with them. Not to mention what will happen when teacher start taking the virus to their families, or worse.

Let's stop the spread of this virus. That IMO should be our priority. We can reverse economic problems, we cannot reverse death.
 
  • #306
Until we have a vaccine or cure there must be a change in lifestyle for most of us. When a mayor is sued because he/she orders mask wearing, and a business refuses to shut down it can appear that actions are not being taken to get Covid under control.

Every child in school represents one or more households. How many first graders are going to social distance, especially when they cannot "see" the virus. MOO, is children are going to catch and carry this virus home with them. Not to mention what will happen when teacher start taking the virus to their families, or worse.

Let's stop the spread of this virus. That IMO should be our priority. We can reverse economic problems, we cannot reverse death.
What happens if there's never a vaccine or cure?
 
  • #307
From the posts I’ve been reading there’s zero trust in our leaders so would it really matter?

As someone from the “other” party, yes. There was one news briefing back in March or so, where the president acted very somber, spoke like a normal human being, didn’t use racial slurs about the virus, and warned everyone of bad days ahead. I remember thinking at the time “ok, it’s going to be ok, he’s taking this seriously at least”.

Unfortunately he got bored with that about a week later.

I would welcome unified guidance, and a CDC that is well funded and permitted to perform their intended functions based on science.
 
  • #308
What happens if there's never a vaccine or cure?

I listened to an interview with Fauci yesterday, and he seems pretty confident we’ll have one, even with the current antibody concerns. He just said we might need boosters.

If not, it’ll die out eventually, or mutate into a less lethal form. Dexamethasone and updated clinical practices are also bringing down the fatality rate a bit. That said, the unknown long term effects are concerning.
 
  • #309
I listened to an interview with Fauci yesterday, and he seems pretty confident we’ll have one, even with the current antibody concerns. He just said we might need boosters.

If not, it’ll die out eventually, or mutate into a less lethal form. Dexamethasone and updated clinical practices are also bringing down the fatality rate a bit. That said, the unknown long term effects are concerning.
How long will it take to die out on it's own?
 
  • #310
From the posts I’ve been reading there’s zero trust in our leaders so would it really matter?

Of course it would matter. If the job gets done the job gets done.
 
  • #311
As someone from the “other” party, yes. There was one news briefing back in March or so, where the president acted very somber, spoke like a normal human being, didn’t use racial slurs about the virus, and warned everyone of bad days ahead. I remember thinking at the time “ok, it’s going to be ok, he’s taking this seriously at least”.

Unfortunately he got bored with that about a week later.

I would welcome unified guidance, and a CDC that is well funded and permitted to perform their intended functions based on science.

I want nothing more than unified guidance. At all levels.
 
  • #312
What happens if there's never a vaccine or cure?
Then we continue to prevent and mitigate until there is effective treatment. Like HIV.

Public health is not some new problem we have to master. Infectious disease is very well understood and the medical sector knows how to mitigate it. We went awry (and continue to do so) by allowing under educated politicians take the lead on things they know nothing about. jmo
 
  • #313
  • #314
View attachment 256066

Lessons from 1918 Flu Pandemic...

By the fall of 1918 the disease touched down in San Francisco for the first time.



By mid-October 1918, there had been more than 20,000 cases of influenza and 1,000 deaths in the city so far.


At first, there was mostly widespread compliance with mask-wearing orders when the first one was issued by the Board of Supervisors on October 25, 1918.


Businesses, restaurants, and theaters were also closed, and the city's Board of Health advised people to avoid large crowds and gatherings.

Surgical masks at the time were constructed from gauze, but the materials that many citizens used for masks were even more "porous and ineffective." And not everyone was devout in their adherence to the mask-wearing law.


On October 27, 110 people were arrested for flouting officials and either refusing to wear masks in public or wearing them improperly.


They were sent to jail for "disturbing the peace," and those who could afford it were released under a $10 bail.


Some served 30-day jail sentences, according to a report from the San Francisco Chronicle. Many more were gradually imprisoned in the following weeks for the same reason — the Chronicle reported 175 arrests on November 2, 1918.


The jails became overcrowded, with officers working double-duty to process cases.


Some incidents were more violent than others.


A blacksmith named James Wiser refused to wear a mask in public and stood on a street corner attempting to convince others in a crowd to discharge their masks.


Photos show how San Francisco had to convince its 'mask slackers' to wear masks after many defied the law while the 1918 Spanish flu pandemic seized the city




The bumpy ride of “The Mask Slackers” and the formation of the “Anti Mask Wearing League” of San Francisco in the 1918 Flu Pandemic.


Good outline and archival photos in this article.


Well, what a merry go round the mask thing was in certain places back in 1918. Same issues of civil liberties. And, no one likes wearing them.


At first SF imposed the ordinance and shut down the economy, then the flu declined, then it spiked, this time ordinance with certain businesses open, people got fed up... SF ended up having a terrible death toll.


Philadelphia topped the list of losses at 250k because they decided to throw a massive parade in the middle of the pandemic. Other cities barely touched.


So, here we are in 2020 going down that rabbit hole, again...


As was pointed out, with the 10th amendment, it’s not like federal government can just enact a mask law. They enacted guidance. It’s up to the states to mandate. And there’s plenty blowback at that level.


What struck me about 1918 which is what I think is part of what is missing now, is that initially when the people wore masks to protect our troops in WWI everybody was pretty much on board. As the pandemic wore on things devolved.


Now, we are struggling to find that balance again. Very hard to enact law or police something like masks or people’s tendency to an all or nothing mentality.


Leadership, facts, and messaging is what got us through in the northeast, for sure. Both NY and NJ are tightening some rules again as cases creep up. But both governors have also been very present, very informative, and both have held press conferences this week...


What’s very unfortunate is there’s not a unified feeling in this country like there was, say after September 11th. Agree or disagree politically, the messaging at the top was consistent, clear, and compassionate to all Americans. And we were all on board with it, too. Nobody was going to mess with us again.


Would it have been smarter to not completely shut down? Don’t know because almost the whole world shut down even it’s healthy people for the very first time in history.


We don’t even know why we are struggling so. We are like 50 countries under an umbrella. Failures and successes exist on all levels. It’s testing our humanity, faith, and the constitution.


Having seen these two very different times, one where America felt very unified in 2001, and now so divided in 2020, I can also see how powerful messaging at the top really is. Or isn’t.

Jmo

Excellent post! Thank you for the absolutely fascinating link.
 
  • #315
  • #316
  • #317
Then we continue to prevent and mitigate until there is effective treatment. Like HIV.

Public health is not some new problem we have to master. Infectious disease is very well understood and the medical sector knows how to mitigate it. We went awry (and continue to do so) by allowing under educated politicians take the lead on things they know nothing about. jmo
What happens if there's never an effective treatment?

Are we going to never send kids to school? Keep business's closed for years?
 
  • #318
What happens if there's never an effective treatment?

Are we going to never send kids to school? Keep business's closed for years?

<modsnip: Removed personalized comment>

We’re only a few months in and we’ve already found effective treatments, which is why lives are being saved at a greater rate.

Here’s a cool vaccine tracker:

Coronavirus Vaccine Tracker
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • #319
What happens if there's never an effective treatment?

Are we going to never send kids to school? Keep business's closed for years?
Then we cross that bridge when we come to it. We are not there yet.
 
  • #320
Status
Not open for further replies.

Members online

Online statistics

Members online
122
Guests online
2,655
Total visitors
2,777

Forum statistics

Threads
632,677
Messages
18,630,346
Members
243,248
Latest member
nonameneeded777
Back
Top