Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #76

[weepingangel]

CDC was pressured 'from the top down' to change Covid-19 testing guidance, official says - CNNPolitics

White House coronavirus task force member Dr. Anthony Fauci said he was in surgery and not part of the discussion during the August 20 task force meeting when updated guidelines were discussed.
"I was under general anesthesia in the operating room and was not part of any discussion or deliberation regarding the new testing recommendations," Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

"I am concerned about the interpretation of these recommendations and worried it will give people the incorrect assumption that asymptomatic spread is not of great concern. In fact it is," he said.

 

[10ofRods]

I certainly hope that the healthcare workers in the US are going to be miraculously protected somehow, not just in their work situations but in their daily lives too. Because when they are needed for all the hospitalisations and doctor visits .....

A good friend of mine has a husband, who is a nurse. He just resigned. He hadn't hugged his children (little kids) since March. He hadn't kissed his wife since March. He lives in their garage. He is on the CoVid unit. He doesn't get much testing and no good PPE (they wear regular surgical masks and he has to bring his scrubs and other gear home for laundry).

He felt like he was bringing CoVid home every day. He had to self-quarantine several times.

Neither of them wants to raise kids in this environment, so he found other employment.

 

[Lilibet]

CDC was pressured 'from the top down' to change Covid-19 testing guidance, official says - CNNPolitics

White House coronavirus task force member Dr. Anthony Fauci said he was in surgery and not part of the discussion during the August 20 task force meeting when updated guidelines were discussed.
"I was under general anesthesia in the operating room and was not part of any discussion or deliberation regarding the new testing recommendations," Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, told CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

"I am concerned about the interpretation of these recommendations and worried it will give people the incorrect assumption that asymptomatic spread is not of great concern. In fact it is," he said.

You would think the task force could have waited a few days for Dr Fauci to recover from surgery to his vocal cords (removing a polyp, I believe). It wouldn’t have killed them, but this decision may well kill people.

 

[Lilibet]

A good friend of mine has a husband, who is a nurse. He just resigned. He hadn't hugged his children (little kids) since March. He hadn't kissed his wife since March. He lives in their garage. He is on the CoVid unit. He doesn't get much testing and no good PPE (they wear regular surgical masks and he has to bring his scrubs and other gear home for laundry).

He felt like he was bringing CoVid home every day. He had to self-quarantine several times.

Neither of them wants to raise kids in this environment, so he found other employment.

Good decision. He did his part. Much appreciated!

 

[10ofRods]

Except that during a pandemic there IS a communal ethical obligation, even if not a legal one, to not do things that might put others at risk. Especially not to do things that are not essential things. Bars and crowded vacations are not essential things during a pandemic.

People think "I don't feel sick so I don't have it thus I'm not going to give it to anyone" but they forget about or disregard how asymptomatic this virus is. A portion of the people who say that DO have it and DO spread it to others.

Once we all had warning of the existence of the pandemic and the information about transmission risks, going to a bar or restaurant and having sufficiently close contact with others IS, demonstrably, "not caring for others", IMO MOO.

I agree absolutely, but I'm also Kantian. We act towards others as we expect others to act towards us (and so do they). We must act as we think is best, in the best sense of the word. We treat ourselves as best we can - but we also try to treat others in the same way.

I do not want to be put at risk, so I do not put others at risk to every extent I am able.

Each one of us is at risk for Covid, so we should all act as if we have CoVid and protect others from getting it.

There is of course a communal ethical obligation, except that not everyone is part of our commune/group/karass/etc.

Back to reality: US once again above 1200 deaths, for two days.

Cue: people talking "second wave."

 

[Lilibet]

I agree absolutely, but I'm also Kantian. We act towards others as we expect others to act towards us (and so do they). We must act as we think is best, in the best sense of the word. We treat ourselves as best we can - but we also try to treat others in the same way.

I do not want to be put at risk, so I do not put others at risk to every extent I am able.

Each one of us is at risk for Covid, so we should all act as if we have CoVid and protect others from getting it.

There is of course a communal ethical obligation, except that not everyone is part of our commune/group/karass/etc.

Back to reality: US once again above 1200 deaths, for two days.

Cue: people talking "second wave."

The Golden Rule in action. If everyone acted this way “what a wonderful world it would be.”

 

[Auntie Cipation]

With respect I strongly disagree. If bars, restaurants and vacation spots are open, it is because the local governor or governing body believe it is safe to continue those activities under specific circumstances and mandates. I live in just such a community and it is essential to those living and working here that community spread is low enough for those activities to be open.

With equal respect, I just as strongly disagree.

I can't speak for how it is in the UK, but in the US we know well enough that businesses being legally open absolutely does not mean the governing body agrees it's safe, because political pressure vastly outweighs actual medical knowledge and/or careful risk assessment.

In addition, if it happens that the governing body DOES believe it's safe to open, that does NOT mean it's actually safe to open. Even without political pressure (if there is such a place in the US), still, our governors, mayors, and other civic leaders are not medical experts.

There are perfectly workable ways to support one's community's local businesses without risking spreading the virus. Personally I bought myself "gift certificates" to two local restaurants, so that they got the benefit of my patronage while I could stay home or only go in during empty times, or get takeout. I don't hang out at a bar but if I did I would have done the same at the bar. Get a gift certificate for the amount I would normally spend in, say, three months. Then I can take my time using it up but the business doesn't suffer from my staying home more often.

 

[ilovewings]

Well, I am freaking now: My husband who has been on a golf league this summer just tells me one of the golfers on his league is in ICU with Covid---- I almost fell over. My husband told me he did not play with him during the summer--- what do i do?
This guy has apparently been in ICU for at least a week at this point.--- Should my husband get tested? should I get tested? I told my husband i don't think he should
play golf with these guys for the remainder of the season. There are only two weeks left
for the league. This is why i never wanted him to play golf but of course he wouldn't listen to me.

 

[MimosaMornings]

With respect I strongly disagree. If bars, restaurants and vacation spots are open, it is because the local governor or governing body believe it is safe to continue those activities under specific circumstances and mandates. I live in just such a community and it is essential to those living and working here that community spread is low enough for those activities to be open.

I wish I could believe that here.

Just one example....Myrtle Beach SC

https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2020/07/01/myrtle-beach-reopening-coronavirus/

The article is dated July 2nd (right before the big traditional July 4th holiday weekend) and Labor Day weekend is fast approaching.

MB Restaurants are dine in at 50% capacity.
Bars are open.

Probably could add Charleston SC, Atlanta GA, Galveston TX to the list.

The local government wants the tourist dollars during the summer months.
JMO

 

[anneg]

I take it that neither your husband nor you have any symptoms at this point...? I'm not sure about getting tested at this point. Check with your doctors.

I agree with what you told your husband about not playing any more with the league. I hope you both will be all right! (And that the guy in the ICU recovers.)

 

[10ofRods]

Good decision. He did his part. Much appreciated!

I really admire them. They are Gen Xers. Their values are so sound -in addition to their occupations, which are in the "helping" group, they do so much other volunteer work and now, they're homeschooling their kids (and the two kids are thriving). They live in a tiny house, they are tireless in trying to help others.

 

[ilovewings]

I take it that neither your husband nor you have any symptoms at this point...? I'm not sure about getting tested at this point. Check with your doctors.

I agree with what you told your husband about not playing any more with the league. I hope you both will be all right! (And that the guy in the ICU recovers.)

Thanks for the good wishes. I am thinking if this guy has been in ICU for maybe a week, he has had to have been infected for longer than that and noone as far as i know on the golf league has symptoms at this point. My husband and I don't have symptoms. I am going to suggest to my husband that he not play any longer on that league, especially since there are only two more weeks of golf.

 

[Trino]

A good friend of mine has a husband, who is a nurse. He just resigned. He hadn't hugged his children (little kids) since March. He hadn't kissed his wife since March. He lives in their garage. He is on the CoVid unit. He doesn't get much testing and no good PPE (they wear regular surgical masks and he has to bring his scrubs and other gear home for laundry).

He felt like he was bringing CoVid home every day. He had to self-quarantine several times.

Neither of them wants to raise kids in this environment, so he found other employment.

Had a nurse friend who took early retirement. She has an underlying health problem. I think both of these people - putting family first - are doing the right thing.

 

[LadyL]

Yes of course Oregonians travel. I realize I wasn’t clear. I was referring to comments by the county health department about cases they knew came here from Californians visiting family and friends, based on the contact tracing they were able to do. But many Oregonians are reckless, rebellious or uninformed, at least in my very independent southern rural part of the state.

I was appalled by a post on Instagram by a friend in her early 80’s who is a cancer survivor. Her daughter from the Central Valley in CA visited and her local son (who has lung cancer) and local daughter who works all gathered for a group photo. I guess they figure the family time is worth the risk? My friend traveled to CA in June for a graduation party and gets together with her local daughter routinely. Lots of mutual friends made positive comments on her post. I sat on my hands and will continue to sit in our home away from anyone outside our household for as long as it takes. Dying doesn’t scare me, but dying from Covid-19 does.

I'm impressed that an 80 something year old posts on Instagram
getting together with family is risky and it's so easy to forget about social distancing
we take my Mom food every couple of weeks and we mask up - she's 87 and suffering thyroid cancer

 

[Lilibet]

I'm impressed that an 80 something year old posts on Instagram
getting together with family is risky and it's so easy to forget about social distancing
we take my Mom food every couple of weeks and we mask up - she's 87 and suffering thyroid cancer

Yes, she’s a very young and tech-smart 80-something. She even learned to ski in her 60s! I just wish she and her family were smarter about this virus. You’re doing it right with your Mom.

 

[musicaljoke]

I was just thinking this may speed up testing results too. That would be a good thing. Jmo

What would really speed things up is to just stop testing entirely. If someone has Covid symptoms, why test? Just call it Covid and carry on. How would that be any different than testing only those with symptoms?

It's the asymptomatic ones you really want to identify. The super spreaders and those who don't know they are the cause of community spread. But if you don't plan to test those w/o symptoms, then why bother test at all!

 

[musicaljoke]

I honestly don't know exactly where I stand in agreeing or disagreeing with the "powers that be" concerning testing, quarantining, etc.

I tested positive August 4th. My college intern was informed that he was exposed from a teacher at his school, and tested positive. He was told by the C19 nurse that he could return to work in 14 days from test date as long as he had no fever for 24 hours prior. He had very minor symptoms. My employer told me to get tested since we work so closely together. I don't think I had any symptoms at all. My C19 nurse told me that I could return to work after isolating for 10 days with no fever 24 hours prior. My employer required both of us to have a negative test before returning to work.

To test again, we both had to wait a full 14 days from the initial test and it took 4 or 5 days to receive our results. I missed 3 weeks of work. I spent 14 days in my bedroom away from my family, and the last week I ventured to the common areas with a mask. I was very concerned about infecting my family. I played by all the rules.

My employer closed our office the day we were notified by the intern and we had a medical grade disinfecting of the building, before everyone else returning to work.

Now to get my finances back in order because my employer is dragging his feet on the 2 weeks of C19 sick-pay I should receive.

Thank you for the sacrifice you made for your community and country. Thank you for isolating until you were clear. I'm sure that your family is very appreciative. Good job!

 

[Clair Louise]

Thank you for the sacrifice you made for your community and country. Thank you for isolating until you were clear. I'm sure that your family is very appreciative. Good job!

But some people see this as a great infringement on their 'freedom'. The western world have eliminated tuberculosis, by vaccinating and quarantining people infected. My grandmother spent two years in a TB quarantine hospital in the 1950s and we were all vaccinated.

 

[musicaljoke]

IMO that's like saying anyone who goes to a bar or restaurant or goes on vacation did not care for their fellow man and that just is not true.

I don't agree that the statements are comparable. Sturgis was a gathering of people who collectively thumbed their noses at all humanity.

 

[10ofRods]

Well, I am freaking now: My husband who has been on a golf league this summer just tells me one of the golfers on his league is in ICU with Covid---- I almost fell over. My husband told me he did not play with him during the summer--- what do i do?
This guy has apparently been in ICU for at least a week at this point.--- Should my husband get tested? should I get tested? I told my husband i don't think he should
play golf with these guys for the remainder of the season. There are only two weeks left
for the league. This is why i never wanted him to play golf but of course he wouldn't listen to me.

No one can actually give you perfect advice here. Of course he should be tested (that's number 1 - get him tested).

Look up how to get him tested, call his doctor and get advice (and maybe a test at your regular lab?)