Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #77

[nhmemorymaker]

The US developed an overall plan from the beginning. The notification to states will start the fine detail process. Sure states will be required to collect, identify certain populations of people by city and location. Locals will need to secure medical personnel, buildings to be used, etc. At least one if not more of the vaccines must be kept at an extremely low temperature, requiring refrigeration or freezing for stability and effectiveness. Not sure this will initially be a vaccine we can get at a physician office or clinic.

The states have alot of work to prepare, cities, long term care facilities, as well. I'm sure we will face challenges, we will be the first free world nation to administer a vaccine. I read initial phase have 30-70 million doses.

Moo...

I have copied your quote below, and am curious as to why we will be first, and is there a reason why it matters? I am confused.

I'm sure we will face challenges, we will be the first free world nation to administer a vaccine.

Who should get the Covid-19 vaccine first? It's way trickier than you might think

I had read this article, above, a few weeks ago that discussed the extraordinary difficulties, for moral, financial, efficiency and efficacy reasons, as to who gets and how vaccines are distributed. I would think the "whole world" has to work together on this.... but what mind-boggling issues to address.

This quote from the attached CNBC article says it pretty clearly:
“We need to think through how to distribute vaccines to reduce harm internationally.

Doubts greet $1.2 billion bet by United States on a coronavirus vaccine by October

 

[tresir2012]

I'm sorry, but clinical trials should come before approval!!!

FDA usually requires extensive clinical trials before even approving limited usage in special populations.

No approval should ever occur without extensive, 3-4 phrase clinical trials and rigorous data collection. Complete recipe for disaster otherwise. We need to be able to distinguish between typical and normative side effects and serious side effects, just for starters. In every demographic: every genetic demographic, every age demographic.

EUA was considered in 2009 for the H1N1 vaccine.

Public Willingness to Take a Vaccine or Drug Under Emergency Use Authorization during the 2009 H1N1 Pandemic

 

[tresir2012]

I have copied your quote below, and am curious as to why we will be first, and is there a reason why it matters? I am confused.

I'm sure we will face challenges, we will be the first free world nation to administer a vaccine.

Who should get the Covid-19 vaccine first? It's way trickier than you might think

I had read this article, above, a few weeks ago that discussed the extraordinary difficulties, for moral, financial, efficiency and efficacy reasons, as to who gets and how vaccines are distributed. I would think the "whole world" has to work together on this.... but what mind-boggling issues to address.

This quote from the attached CNBC article says it pretty clearly:
“We need to think through how to distribute vaccines to reduce harm internationally.

Doubts greet $1.2 billion bet by United States on a coronavirus vaccine by October

(I know you were asking the OP but) IMO it matters because it will save lives. Eg people with Cancer or Diabetes or at risk from other health conditions may want to have the choice of having the vaccine.

 

[tresir2012]

If we act in the same way as society acted during the 1918 influenza pandemic, then we will start becoming more heavy handed with violators who are the cause of further outbreaks. The more we understand how the disease acts, and the better we get at controlling its spread, the easier it is to identify the guilty. The impact of their actions can be measured more easily too.

So, it's still possible that we will begin to see stricter enforcement.

Public health interventions and epidemic intensity during the 1918 influenza pandemic

How can people be considered "guilty" of anything, just for catching a virus. Are people who catch and spread the flu "guilty" of anything? No of course not. It is a ridiculous concept IMO. Yes, people are careless and negligent, like Pelosi in the hair salon, but "guilty" of an offence? Not IMO.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

No it isn't because the governors are responsible for their state results, as is constantly being stated. In the UK we have four nations who are devolved regarding health and education matters and make their own decisions. Regarding the elderly care homes in the US, this article discusses it and states that 45% of deaths have been in US care homes. That would be almost 82k deaths out of the 183k reported so far. That is a large portion and is completely the fault of the governors IMO.

45% of COVID-19 Deaths in Nursing Homes & Assisted Living Facilities

I also made the point that the largest passenger carrying airport hubs are in the US and UK (6 out of 10) which has also contributed enormously to the spread.

USA - 5 airports in top 10
UK- 1 airport 6th in the world.

List of busiest airports by passenger traffic - Wikipedia

Tresir wrote: That is a large portion and is completely the fault of the governors IMO.

I do appreciate that this is just your opinion, but I don't think you really understand what these long care facilities and centers have had to deal with on the ground, every day.

COVID-19 Testing Falls Short in Long-Term Care Facilities

Are you aware that these centers had been and still are screaming for more testing and help? And these employees are some of the worst paid throughout the whole country.

Are you aware that many many long-term care facilities are huge consortiums that cross multiple states? Who makes the rules and policies?

Are you aware that the states with the highest rates of long-term cases are within the "hot spot" states, the two with largest number of long-term care cases are Florida and Texas--clearly two states that have had very high numbers, and slow to put any disease-slowing procedures in place?

You cannot blame "all governors", and you probably cannot pick and choose governors either.

There is no question that Covid has exploited the overwhelming issues that confront long-term care centers--conditions, infection control, staff turnover, etc. etc.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2014811

I know you love research, as much as I do...and am sure I have my own opinions of the UK as you do of the US!!!!

But this issue is bigger than all of us.... and NOT the blame of any single entity.....

 

[tresir2012]

Here’s how the U.S. could release a COVID-19 vaccine before the election—and why that scares some | Science | AAAS

Interesting article. Explains EUA and how it works. Also explains that EUA has been used for a vaccine before. Explains the process and also another possible process that can be considered.

 

[tresir2012]

Tresir wrote: That is a large portion and is completely the fault of the governors IMO.

I do appreciate that this is just your opinion, but I don't think you really understand what these long care facilities and centers have had to deal with on the ground, every day.

COVID-19 Testing Falls Short in Long-Term Care Facilities

Are you aware that these centers had been and still are screaming for more testing and help? And these employees are some of the worst paid throughout the whole country.

Are you aware that many many long-term care facilities are huge consortiums that cross multiple states? Who makes the rules and policies?

Are you aware that the states with the highest rates of long-term cases are within the "hot spot" states, the two with largest number of long-term care cases are Florida and Texas--clearly two states that have had very high numbers, and slow to put any disease-slowing procedures in place?

You cannot blame "all governors", and you probably cannot pick and choose governors either.

There is no question that Covid has exploited the overwhelming issues that confront long-term care centers--conditions, infection control, staff turnover, etc. etc.

https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMp2014811

I know you love research, as much as I do...and am sure I have my own opinions of the UK as you do of the US!!!!

But this issue is bigger than all of us.... and NOT the blame of any single entity.....

Do you have the individual states' deaths in elderly care and assisted living homes, otherwise it is not possible to discuss further. I only know the overall figure from the article I posted. It would be good to know which states are performing well and which ones are not, and which ones suffered lack of PPE and which ones didn't. I don't know if that is available. I know we have similar data for the individual nations of the UK for example. By all means comment on the UK situation. Or Europe, as many of those nations have had terrible situations. I will not forget the example of the army going into the Spanish care home where the staff had abandoned the dead and dying and residents were foraging for themselves for what food they could find. This is not a unique US or UK problem by any means.

 

[ilovewings]

ok I am freaking out--- I had a sore throat yesterday but it went away- well, it is now back. My concern is that I went to a urology specialist at Henry Ford Hospital outpatient dept. on Monday. The office is located in the hospital. At that visit there was an assistant who told me she had Covid in March. that freaked me out a bit - I was in a room with 2 doctors (masked at all times as was) for over an hour and had a thorough examination. it was a very small room. Now I am wondering if i was somehow exposed to the virus there. I have no fever, but as we know fever does not always accompany the virus. i think it is too soon to get tested. I would think i would get tested at 5-7 days: this is only 3 days. What do ya'll think?

 

[Trino]

Yes, agree with all that. I was just trying to make the point that influenzas have some things in common -- some basic influenza-ish infrastructure -- that makes finding a virus for a novel influenza less problematic than finding one for a novel coronavirus. Not saying I don't think they will produce one for covid, just that it's starting from a cleaner slate than with a new influenza.

To answer your question truthfully a common cold can be caused by many different types of viruses, too many to vaccinate for. Yes. A cold seems much the same everytime we get it, but it really isn't.

 

[musicaljoke]

How can people be considered "guilty" of anything, just for catching a virus. Are people who catch and spread the flu "guilty" of anything? No of course not. It is a ridiculous concept IMO. Yes, people are careless and negligent, like Pelosi in the hair salon, but "guilty" of an offence? Not IMO.

A person who intentionally or recklessly causes another to suffer grievous bodily harm commits an offence under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, s. 20. Where D infects V with coronavirus, and V suffers severe symptoms, D causes V to suffer grievous bodily harm. This section asks whether D does so recklessly where D fails to self-isolate after developing symptoms of coronavirus.

... more ...

Crime and Coronavirus: Three Thoughts.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

ok I am freaking out--- I had a sore throat yesterday but it went away- well, it is now back. My concern is that I went to a urology specialist at Henry Ford Hospital outpatient dept. on Monday. The office is located in the hospital. At that visit there was an assistant who told me she had Covid in March. that freaked me out a bit - I was in a room with 2 doctors (masked at all times as was) for over an hour and had a thorough examination. it was a very small room. Now I am wondering if i was somehow exposed to the virus there. I have no fever, but as we know fever does not always accompany the virus. i think it is too soon to get tested. I would think i would get tested at 5-7 days: this is only 3 days. What do ya'll think?

If any of the staff have covid, you would have been contacted. Has your husband been golfing with his friends recently? May be worth checking with them if so.

I personally did not have a sore throat, but not every case is the same. I would be looking for a big headache, fatigue and fever.

I'm sure you'll be fine tho. V anxious times.

 

[ilovewings]

If any of the staff have covid, you would have been contacted. Has your husband been golfing with his friends recently? May be worth checking with them if so.

I personally did not have a sore throat, but not every case is the same. I would be looking for a big headache, fatigue and fever.

I'm sure you'll be fine tho. V anxious times.

my husband. does golf and someone in his league has covid-- however my husband
tested negative

 

[tresir2012]

A person who intentionally or recklessly causes another to suffer grievous bodily harm commits an offence under the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, s. 20. Where D infects V with coronavirus, and V suffers severe symptoms, D causes V to suffer grievous bodily harm. This section asks whether D does so recklessly where D fails to self-isolate after developing symptoms of coronavirus.

... more ...

Crime and Coronavirus: Three Thoughts.

Proving intent and reckless behaviour is difficult enough and first you have to prove exactly where the virus was caught from and that is the bugbear where contact tracing falls down.

 

[HongKongPhooey]

my husband. does golf and someone in his league has covid-- however my husband
tested negative

Thats v reassuring.

Honestly I think you'll be fine, but see how you go over the next few hours.

 

[Clair Louise]

ok I am freaking out--- I had a sore throat yesterday but it went away- well, it is now back. My concern is that I went to a urology specialist at Henry Ford Hospital outpatient dept. on Monday. The office is located in the hospital. At that visit there was an assistant who told me she had Covid in March. that freaked me out a bit - I was in a room with 2 doctors (masked at all times as was) for over an hour and had a thorough examination. it was a very small room. Now I am wondering if i was somehow exposed to the virus there. I have no fever, but as we know fever does not always accompany the virus. i think it is too soon to get tested. I would think i would get tested at 5-7 days: this is only 3 days. What do ya'll think?

I don't think it is unusual to get mild symptoms of a cold around the change of seasons.

 

[Trino]

Sturgis update:
At least 290 people in 12 states have tested positive for the coronavirus since attending the rally...
COVID-19 death tied to Sturgis Rally reported in Minnesota

 

[ilovewings]

Sturgis update:
At least 290 people in 12 states have tested positive for the coronavirus since attending the rally...
COVID-19 death tied to Sturgis Rally reported in Minnesota

wow- shocking!!!! (NOT)

 

[ilovewings]

Thats v reassuring.

Honestly I think you'll be fine, but see how you go over the next few hours.

I insisted he get tested: otherwise he wouldn't have

 

[MimosaMornings]

It's becoming more common, though. HI has a commitment to fast testing and here in California, we're seeing faster returns than we did a month ago. Supposedly, in my county, test results are given within 24 hours - I only know a handful of people who have been tested in the last couple of weeks, but they got their results by the next morning after they gave a swab in the afternoon.

I know some people in the US are still reporting that they have to have a doctor's order to get the test - or that they're being charged for it. But here where I live, it's all free, there are multiple testing sites, the weekend one at the college gets results to people within 24 hours (and has been doing that all along). One does not need to have symptoms to get tested here and there are whole blocks of time during the day where there's basically no line.

HI has closed down a segment of freeway, IIRC, to make testing from cars quicker and more easily available. Keep in mind that HI has a small population. Only 1.5 million people. As an island that has had many diseases from off-island sweep through it over the last century, people are keen to get CoVid under control.

Anyway, "normal people" where I live in CA and where my family lives in HI can get fairly rapid test results. Dwayne's comments are probably based on that. I believe he lives on Oahu - but I could be wrong about that. He may be in CA for all I know.

Friends in Massachusetts and New York also report rapid test results - but they live in big cities, might be different outside of Boston or Manhattan.

A 12 hour return of results would be great, but if people got tested in the morning the day before an event, they'd have 24 hours for the results.

In NC/SC you have to answer a set of questions or have your primary care physician set up an appointment for a drive up in your car test.
Several members of my family wanted to be tested but they would not test those without a fever and/or cough. So some got tested, others didn’t.
And you need to be a resident of that state.
Test results 3-5 days.

 

[ilovewings]

Thats v reassuring.

Honestly I think you'll be fine, but see how you go over the next few hours.

was a time not that long ago when a sore throat was just a sore throat--
now it causes panic