Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #79

[Lilibet]

There may still be people who think that masks are worn to protect the wearer. Do you think that the message that masks protect others is well understood? It seems to be a really difficult concept to grasp.

I still hear people saying that they aren't afraid to catch covid, so they don't want to wear a mask.

Yes, it could be that people don’t understand that masks protect others. I’ve said for months that there should be PSA’s on TV, radio, newspapers, billboards, internet, etc explaining that masks protect others. I like to think it would make a difference, but I’m not sure whether it would. That concept needed to be modeled by all in government.
JMO

 

[weepingangel]

Massachusetts reports 455 new COVID cases as state sees 40% increase in average cases from two weeks ago
More at link
State health officials confirmed another 455 coronavirus cases on Thursday, bringing the total number of cases across Massachusetts to at least 126,863.

Officials also announced 15 more COVID-related deaths, for a total now of 9,150.

Thursday’s case increase is based on 18,556 new molecular tests. There are 375 Massachusetts residents currently hospitalized with COVID-19, including 75 patients in intensive care.

Over the last seven days, there have been an average of 402 cases per day in Massachusetts, which is a 40% increase from the average two weeks earlier, according to a New York Timesanalysis. Cases are on the rise in more than a dozen states, mot noticeably in North Dakota, South Dakota, Wisconsin, Oklahoma, Iowa and Utah, among others.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Well, they shouldn’t be shocked. I’m following the posts of a couple of other “no mask” doctors (2 of whom are positive for COVID but think they’d scare all their business away if they wore masks). They try to stay away from the patients in their examining rooms - that’s it.

It’s actually just one doctor actively posting about his guilt in doing this, and ratting out the other one (but his observations of still other doctors aren’t for the faint of heart if you’re trying to avoid COVID).

Have these doctors disclosed to their patients that they are Covid positive?
Wearing masks would scare their patients?

Why not just do zoom if they aren’t going to get close enough to examine a patient?

They need a good thump on the head to get their mind working properly or a refresher class.
JMO

 

[Trino]

October 31. Reset clocks. Reset the pandemic. Reset the protests. Reset our lives. Either that or fast forward to a better next year.

 

[CoverMeCagney]

Yes, it could be that people don’t understand that masks protect others. I’ve said for months that there should be PSA’s on TV, radio, newspapers, billboards, internet, etc explaining that masks protect others. I like to think it would make a difference, but I’m not sure whether it would. That concept needed to be modeled by all in government.
JMO

Boris said yesterday, in his address to the nation:

“The tragic reality of having Covid is that your mild cough can be someone else’s death knell”​

 

[weepingangel]

Massachusetts OKs resumption of indoor visits at nursing homes
More at link
Massachusetts nursing and rest homes may resume indoor visits beginning Friday, Sept. 25, so long as appropriate infection control and safety measures are in place, according to new state guidance.
The guidance from the Massachusetts Department of Public Health and the Executive Office of Elder Affairs expands indoor visitation options, as well in assisted living residences.



Mass. Department of Correction will allow in-person visits to resume Sept. 28
More
Starting Sept. 28, the Massachusetts Department of Correction will allow in-person visits to resume at its facilities for the first time since March, as coronavirus cases spread across the state.

The department said in a statement Thursday that the visits will balance “the benefits of visitation with the need for vigilance against COVID-19.”

 

[SouthAussie]

Doctor at 'mask optional' clinic in Melbourne dies; tests positive for coronavirus post-mortem

Patients shocked by death of Melbourne doctor; he had COVID-19

"Scrivner said she never noticed him or nurses in the office wearing masks.
"I kind of liked that. It's the one place that we could go without feeling like, you know, it's the end of the world," she said, adding that she observed social distancing was taking place in the office."


See, this is what I don't get. Why does wearing a mask signify 'the end of the world' to some?

It is a little piece of cloth worn when you are in a place with others. Similar to not going naked when you are out and about. Good hygiene.

Such a big deal about something so small, and so relevant right now. And especially relevant when you are in a place (doctor's office) where others health is already compromised because they are feeling ill or they are renewing a prescription for a medical condition, or there is a possibility they are ill with covid.

And the world as we know it won't end, if more people made a concerted effort to rid the place of this virus. To stop the spread.

IMO

 

[Lilibet]

October 31. Reset clocks. Reset the pandemic. Reset the protests. Reset our lives. Either that or fast forward to a better next year.

I was really hoping we didn’t have to take back that hour we “lost” in the spring! Who needs even another hour of 2020?

 

[anneg]

I can't comprehend why physicians would not wear masks when seeing patients and require that the patients also wear masks. This "no-masks" business is nuts, IMO. I wouldn't consider seeing a doctor or other health care professional who didn't take infection control seriously.

 

[Lilibet]

I can't comprehend why physicians would not wear masks when seeing patients and require that the patients also wear masks. This "no-masks" business is nuts, IMO. I wouldn't consider seeing a doctor or other health care professional who didn't take infection control seriously.

I know. The very few doctors I’ve been to since March have asked us to wait in the car and call when we arrive. And they have cleared most chairs out of the waiting room. They’d lose my business otherwise.

 

[JudgeJoe]

Aerosols are different from the products of sneezing or coughing or spittle, if it makes any difference.

We can often see droplets (spittle, etc) as described so well in the past couple of pages.

Aerosols are by definition very fine to invisible. You don’t have to sneeze or cough to produce them.

Which, if you are actively shedding COVID, you do each time you speak or exhale and more so if you sing or shout (during which both aerosols and droplets may be emitted).

Droplets go to ground faster, aerosols stay in the air, therefore are more likely to transmit COVID.

People without symptoms can readily emit enough COVID-containing aerosol ‘droplets’ to get someone sick in 6-10 minutes if they are unmasked and sitting face to face at a conversational distance.

Yes I understand aerosols vs droplets. What I don’t understand is why this is suddenly a big scientific controversy in the news again. There were many studies & news reports back last spring about how long they hang in the air, how far they travel, how they can travel farther with a breeze- even if just created by someone walking by quickly in a grocery aisle. It was discussed ad-nauseam in media last spring- and one of the reasons half the country thought masks were a good idea. So it was well-established as a fact. But all of a sudden controversial again 5 months later. That’s the part I don’t get. Moo

 

[anneg]

Yes I understand aerosols vs droplets. What I don’t understand is why this is suddenly a big scientific controversy in the news again. There were many studies & news reports back last spring about how long they hang in the air, how far they travel, how they can travel farther with a breeze- even if just created by someone walking by quickly in a grocery aisle. It was discussed ad-nauseam in media last spring- and one of the reasons half the country thought masks were a good idea. So it was well-established as a fact. But all of a sudden controversial again 5 months later. That’s the part I don’t get. Moo

MOO: I think the World Health Organization (WHO) would disagree that it was well-established as fact in the spring. IMO, WHO sees the issue of aerosol transmission as needing much more research. This is from the WHO site:
Transmission of SARS-CoV-2: implications for infection prevention precautions
Scientific Brief
9 July 2020

[Jumping down to...] (BBM)
Main findings

• Understanding how, when and in what types of settings SARS-CoV-2 spreads between people is critical to develop effective public health and infection prevention measures to break chains of transmission.
• Current evidence suggests that transmission of SARS-CoV-2 occurs primarily between people through direct, indirect, or close contact with infected people through infected secretions such as saliva and respiratory secretions, or through their respiratory droplets, which are expelled when an infected person coughs, sneezes, talks or sings.
• Airborne transmission of the virus can occur in health care settings where specific medical procedures, called aerosol generating procedures, generate very small droplets called aerosols. Some outbreak reports related to indoor crowded spaces have suggested the possibility of aerosol transmission, combined with droplet transmission, for example, during choir practice, in restaurants or in fitness classes.
• Respiratory droplets from infected individuals can also land on objects, creating fomites (contaminated surfaces). As environmental contamination has been documented by many reports, it is likely that people can also be infected by touching these surfaces and touching their eyes, nose or mouth before cleaning their hands.
• Based on what we currently know, transmission of COVID-19 is primarily occurring from people when they have symptoms, and can also occur just before they develop symptoms, when they are in close proximity to others for prolonged periods of time. While someone who never develops symptoms can also pass the virus to others, it is still not clear to what extent this occurs and more research is needed in this area.
• Urgent high-quality research is needed to elucidate the relative importance of different transmission routes; the role of airborne transmission in the absence of aerosol generating procedures; the dose of virus required for transmission to occur; the settings and risk factors for superspreading events; and the extent of asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic transmission.

Also, the Q&A on the WHO site includes the following (BBM):
What do we know about aerosol transmission?

Some medical procedures can produce very small droplets (called aerosolized droplet nuclei or aerosols) that are able to stay suspended in the air for longer periods of time. When such medical procedures are conducted on people infected with COVID-19 in health facilities, these aerosols can contain the COVID-19 virus. These aerosols may potentially be inhaled by others if they are not wearing appropriate personal protective equipment. Therefore, it is essential that all health workers performing these medical procedures take specific airborne protection measures, including using appropriate personal protective equipment. Visitors should not be permitted in areas where such medical procedures are being performed.

There have been reported outbreaks of COVID-19 in some closed settings, such as restaurants, nightclubs, places of worship or places of work where people may be shouting, talking, or singing. In these outbreaks, aerosol transmission, particularly in these indoor locations where there are crowded and inadequately ventilated spaces where infected persons spend long periods of time with others, cannot be ruled out. More studies are urgently needed to investigate such instances and assess their significance for transmission of COVID-19.

 

[anneg]

Also re aerosol transmission, here is the CNN article about the CDC updating its guidance about it last Friday:
Airborne Covid-19: Updated CDC guidance acknowledges virus can spread through the air - CNN

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated guidance on its website to say coronavirus can commonly spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols," which are produced even when a person breathes.

"Airborne viruses, including COVID-19, are among the most contagious and easily spread," the site now says.

Previously, the CDC page said that Covid-19 was thought to spread mainly between people in close contact -- about 6 feet -- and "through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks."

Adults with Covid-19 about 'twice as likely' to say they have dined at a restaurant, CDC study suggests

The page, updated Friday, still says Covid-19 most commonly spreads between people who are in close contact with one another, and now says the virus is known to spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols, produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, sings, talks or breathes."

[SNIP]

For months, scientists have noted the likelihood of coronavirus transmission through viral particles in the air, and pushed health agencies to acknowledge it.

Experts tell White House coronavirus can spread through talking or even just breathing

In April, a prestigious scientific panel told the White House in a letter that research showed coronavirus can be spread not just by sneezes or coughs, but also just by talking, or possibly even just breathing.

"While the current [coronavirus] specific research is limited, the results of available studies are consistent with aerosolization of virus from normal breathing," according to the letter, written by Dr. Harvey Fineberg, former dean of the Harvard School of Public Health and chair of the NAS' Standing Committee on Emerging Infectious Diseases and 21st Century Health Threats.
"Currently available research supports the possibility that [coronavirus] could be spread via bioaerosols generated directly by patients' exhalation," the letter said.

And in July, 239 scientists published a letter that urged the World Health Organization and other public health organizations to be more forthcoming about the likelihood that people could catch the virus from droplets that were floating in the air.

[More at link]

(Of course we know that the new guidelines were removed from the CDC site a few days later.)

 

[MimosaMornings]

https://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/coronavirus/article245948865.html

“The number of coronavirus infections tied to a North Carolina salon has grown to more than a dozen.

At least 18 positive COVID-19 cases have been linked to Enchanting Hair Fashions, a Haywood County spokesperson told McClatchy News on Wednesday afternoon.

Those who tested positive include five workers and six clients of the hair salon, officials said. The 11 cases are considered a “cluster,” which the N.C. Department of Health and Human Services defines as at least five cases appearing at the same location within a two-week period.

The number of total infections connected to the salon has risen since the county’s health department on Sept. 17 initially reported 13 cases. Three people were in hospitals at the time, officials said.”

 

[10ofRods]

The stress on our essential workers can’t keep on like this:

'I cry before work': US essential workers burned out amid pandemic

 

[10ofRods]

Yes I understand aerosols vs droplets. What I don’t understand is why this is suddenly a big scientific controversy in the news again. There were many studies & news reports back last spring about how long they hang in the air, how far they travel, how they can travel farther with a breeze- even if just created by someone walking by quickly in a grocery aisle. It was discussed ad-nauseam in media last spring- and one of the reasons half the country thought masks were a good idea. So it was well-established as a fact. But all of a sudden controversial again 5 months later. That’s the part I don’t get. Moo

It’s in the news again because a lot of people didn’t get the initial memo and many are fighting back against any and all measures that take aerosols into account (such as masks).

The pressure on the CDC from the WH and the head of the HHS to change its views on many things (aerosols, masks, hydrochloroquinone, etc.) is ongoing.

This week the CDC said yes, it’s airborne (which freaked people out - judging from the comments sections of various newspapers) and then took that down (and then put it up again?)

As for the WHO, it seems that some of the leaders there are confused as to the difference between droplets and aerosols...

But the confusion in the US is part of this last couple of weeks of WH admitting they manipulated data, that one guy coming out as a conspiracy theorist, and then the head of the CDC quietly saying his scientists were right (holding up a mask). All of this hit the news cycle about a week ago and it has intensified through today - with smaller papers just now picking it up and talk radio hosts just now trying to grok what an aerosol is.

 

[10ofRods]

Also re aerosol transmission, here is the CNN article about the CDC updating its guidance about it last Friday:
Airborne Covid-19: Updated CDC guidance acknowledges virus can spread through the air - CNN

The US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention updated guidance on its website to say coronavirus can commonly spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols," which are produced even when a person breathes.

"Airborne viruses, including COVID-19, are among the most contagious and easily spread," the site now says.

Previously, the CDC page said that Covid-19 was thought to spread mainly between people in close contact -- about 6 feet -- and "through respiratory droplets produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes or talks."

Adults with Covid-19 about 'twice as likely' to say they have dined at a restaurant, CDC study suggests

The page, updated Friday, still says Covid-19 most commonly spreads between people who are in close contact with one another, and now says the virus is known to spread "through respiratory droplets or small particles, such as those in aerosols, produced when an infected person coughs, sneezes, sings, talks or breathes."

[SNIP]

For months, scientists have noted the likelihood of coronavirus transmission through viral particles in the air, and pushed health agencies to acknowledge it.

Experts tell White House coronavirus can spread through talking or even just breathing

In April, a prestigious scientific panel told the White House in a letter that research showed coronavirus can be spread not just by sneezes or coughs, but also just by talking, or possibly even just breathing.

"While the current [coronavirus] specific research is limited, the results of available studies are consistent with aerosolization of virus from normal breathing," according to the letter, written by Dr. Harvey Fineberg, former dean of the Harvard School of Public Health and chair of the NAS' Standing Committee on Emerging Infectious Diseases and 21st Century Health Threats.
"Currently available research supports the possibility that [coronavirus] could be spread via bioaerosols generated directly by patients' exhalation," the letter said.

And in July, 239 scientists published a letter that urged the World Health Organization and other public health organizations to be more forthcoming about the likelihood that people could catch the virus from droplets that were floating in the air.

[More at link]

(Of course we know that the new guidelines were removed from the CDC site a few days later.)

This is a great example of how recent the major MSM picked up on this aerosol business - last Friday.

It’ll be another week before it recedes again. Even so, most young people haven’t heard it, a lot of others haven’t heard it and not everyone understands why we’re ‘suddenly’ talking about an airborne disease.

All that focus on hand sanitizing led many to believe it’s surface born (without really thinking about viral replication and how it gets on surfaces - it’s not their bailiwick).

 

[SoCalDavidS]

Covid ‘Superspreader’ Karaoke Night and Other Events at Social Club of Palm Coast Cause at Least 2 Deaths and Up to 50 Infections

Palm Coast was the site of a rare Covid-19 “superspreader” event on a single night in late August. It claimed the lives of two people, with a third in hospice, and infected dozens of people, according to Flagler Health Department Chief Bob Snyder.

The superspreader was traced back with near certainty to karaoke night at the Palm Coast Social Club on Aug. 28, where people did not abide by social distancing or mask-wearing rules, and where singers belted song after song, without masks, despite studies that have pointed to such things as choir practice as cause for a disproportionate number of infections.

Covid 'Superspreader' Karaoke Night and Other Events at Social Club of Palm Coast Cause at Least 2 Deaths and Up to 50 Infections | FlaglerLive

Karaoke Night. You can't make this stuff up.

 

[10ofRods]

I can't comprehend why physicians would not wear masks when seeing patients and require that the patients also wear masks. This "no-masks" business is nuts, IMO. I wouldn't consider seeing a doctor or other health care professional who didn't take infection control seriously.

I was told that, for the two doctors I mentioned, they’re in a very anti-mask area and it would be seen exactly the opposite of how you and I would see it.

::sigh::

One of the two doctors is in his early 70’s and has the trust of his community. His son, the other doctor, is only a few years into private practice (with the view of taking over for his dad). Dad says they’ll lose business if they wear masks...

 

[10ofRods]

So if a gym can accommodate 100 people how is it helpful to limit that to 50 people?

So if a bar accommodates 70 people how is it helpful to limit it to 35 people inside with no masks on while they eat and drink?

Hmmm? Just asking.

What? The virus retreats 50% of it's aresol army? Not seeing it. But yah, people can now choose to go inside public places. Freedom of choice.


Coronavirus: WHO rethinking how COVID-19 spreads in air - The Business & Financial Times

Because it is individual (countable) humans who have COVID. Let’s say you’re in AZ, with a 7% positivity rate - so 7 out of those 100 gym goers is exuding 100,000-200,000 virions per breath (and let’s say 15 breaths per minute).

You can do the math - but it’s a lot of virions. The people closest by would be the most likely to be the next COVID patients.

But if you space people further out (by putting only 50 in a 5000 foot space rather than 100), you immediately protect the people. Plus, you will have only HALF the virions you would have had (3 or 4 people expelling virions depending on time of day).

So you have substantially lowered the risk - and that’s the entire name of the game.

Same with restaurant tables, barstools, grocery store lines and everything else.

Plus, there’s good evidence that if people get a lower viral load (fewer initial virions), they have a milder course and develop immunity. Win win for everyone!

If you were the unlucky person flanked on two sides by CV+ transmitters and there were a few more chatting in the lobby as you walked out....well, not a good situation and that’s exactly what’s happening, as far as we can tell.