Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #81

[musicaljoke]

When did Trump last receive a negative test?
The timeline around when the White House learned the president had Covid-19 is critical.
Several times during press conferences on Saturday and Sunday, the White House medical team was asked - and refused to disclose - when the president last tested negative for the virus.

The official line from the White House is that the president began to feel ill on Thursday evening, tested positive and then announced his results in that late-night tweet.

[The] president's first positive on a rapid-test came before the president did a live phone interview on Fox News. He did not send his tweet until he received a positive finding from a second, more accurate testing process.

"I'm not going to give you a detailed readout with timestamps every time the president is tested," White House Press Secretary Kayleigh McEnany told reporters on Sunday night. "He's tested regularly, and the first positive test he received was after his return from Bedminster." That's his New Jersey golf club where he attended a fund-raiser on Thursday.

Further complicating matters, during his opening statement during Saturday's press conference, White House physician Sean Conley said that the president's diagnosis came "72 hours ago" - which would have been Wednesday, before the president's Minnesota rally that night and that Thursday trip.

The White House subsequently issued a statement saying the physician "misspoke" and meant that the president was in his "third day" with the disease.
[...]

Unanswered questions about Trump's Covid crisis

 

[beatrixpotter]

It sounds ghoulish but also very smart practice.

I guess so. He must be at high risk for being shot at.

 

[Reasonable & Just]

I guess so. He must be at high risk for being shot at.

The loss of Lincoln and JFK, the near-loss of Reagan. We must do everything we can to prevent loss of a President's life and protect a stable democracy.

Which is why I care about the health and well-being of Secret Service agents, and I do not understand anyone who devalues them.

 

[musicaljoke]

But doesn’t everyone realize that extreme measures will be taken to keep him healthy? He’s going to get stuff that others won’t and that isn’t an indication as to his level of illness.

He looks healthy to me. And I don’t think there’s a chance in hell he faked this. To me it’s the opposite of what he would do. So this far, IMO, whatever he’s doing is working.



Excellent post. It’s unconscionable not to take reasonable precautions not to act like this is a serious illness that can and should be prevented.

Masks reduce risk. There’s no rational denying that. And they help us not to close.

I agree that Trump would be given whatever medications he needs in order to treat the symptoms, and attempt to prevent worsening health.

Would they give him dextamethazone without seeing concerning symptoms? I don't think so. It has some serious risks and side effects and would only be given if necessary. It's not something that a responsible doctor would give to prevent symptoms, because it can't prevent sysmptoms. It can actually suppress the immune system, so it wouldn't be given unless absolutely needed. We heard that Trumps O2 levels dropped twice. Dex was probably given in response to that symptom.

Dex can also give a person (or, from my career experience, an animal) a real buzz of energy and make them feel a lot better.

From the article :

CBS News medical contributor Dr. David Agus said Sunday that Mr. Trump is on the "strongest medicines shown to have benefit, which are monoclonal antibodies, remdesivir and dexamethasone." But, Agus cautioned, dexamethasone is a "very potent steroid that can have brain effects."

"There can be a manic behavior associated with dexamethasone, so certainly important that we understand that," Agus said Sunday. "Dexamethasone is a very strong medicine. When used early in this infection, it can actually make it worse by blocking immune function. When used late, it can treat significant pulmonary inflammation, which I assume he has."


What we know about President Trump's treatment for COVID-19 so far

 

[JerseyGirl]

Trump taking dexamethasone is 'a big red flag', say doctors

The drug, which is a steroid typically used to reduce inflammation in other conditions, could be a sign that the 74-year-old’s symptoms were more severe than what has been already admitted in public, one doctor said.

Although the steroid has not been approved for widespread use by the US Food and Drug Administration (FDA), it has been known to aid patients with severe Covid-19 symptoms.

 

[GRT]

The problem is that humans have repeatedly shown they aren’t like you. Most people are followers. They need guidance from people they respect. People in authority.

That’s hard for us on webslueths to understand because we have so many critical thinkers here.

My feelings are that there are two ways to exact change, either through "helping" or through "hindering." Only the first will have a lasting effect because human beings naturally push against controlling rules that hinder their way of life. So, in my opinion, educating the public and recommending the wearing of masks is going to be more fruitful than issuing mandates that result in protests and violations.

Still guidance, just more effective guidance.

JMOO

 

[JerseyGirl]

An estimated 300 people attended the (NJ) event. Tickets cost as much as $250,000. During the event, one interviewer said he was about 100 feet from the president, who spoke for 15 minutes and took questions for an hour.

“I spoke to my doctor this morning and he said, ‘Don’t worry about it,’ If you feel sick, call me.'”

While the event was largely outdoors, Trump did meet with a small group indoors for about 45 minutes to an hour. About 19 people were seated at a rectangular table around the president. Guests did not wear masks during the roundtable discussion.

Guests at Trump's New Jersey fundraiser dismiss coronavirus concerns

 

[Tugela]

The loss of Lincoln and JFK, the near-loss of Reagan. We must do everything we can to prevent loss of a President's life and protect a stable democracy.

Which is why I care about the health and well-being of Secret Service agents, and I do not understand anyone who devalues them.

Nobody is irreplaceable. Worst case scenario would mean President Pence, then President Pelosi. Someone will be next in line, government would continue without a break.

 

[Lilibet]

But, Agus cautioned, dexamethasone is a "very potent steroid that can have brain effects."

"There can be a manic behavior associated with dexamethasone, so certainly important that we understand that," Agus said Sunday.

BBM

I’ve taken those packs of prednisone and felt like I could do waaaay more than I should. So I have a feeling the more powerful dexamethasone may have made President Trump feel a burst of energy, possibly leading to the ride to see his supporters today. I can’t imagine that the doctors would be able to forbid it if he insisted. I doubt they approved it, but rather reluctantly allowed it and did their best to mitigate damage to his health and the health of the secret service.
JMO

 

[Tugela]

My feelings are that there are two ways to exact change, either through "helping" or through "hindering." Only the first will have a lasting effect because human beings naturally push against controlling rules that hinder their way of life. So, in my opinion, educating the public and recommending the wearing of masks is going to be more fruitful than issuing mandates that result in protests and violations.

Still guidance, just more effective guidance.

JMOO

That is not really true. The vast majority of people want a leader to follow, basically someone to tell them what to do. They are very few who will actually lead, and even fewer who are competent at it.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Actually, yes they do, especially when they are speaking to the country On live television. Please enlighten me.... what do you find wrong with that?
ETA: self moderating

i really think the parade of doctors (like....why were they all there anyway???) was just the basic T-WH approach to any media attention. The spokesperson doc is not a senior guy. I just feel that the "real" doctors were not willing to do the song and dance for the press...

All the news shows this morning are just scrambling with the contradictions... ... but most think that they are doing the song and dance routine, and letting him out in that van trip just to appease him...so they can try to convince him to stay in the hospital.

 

[Tugela]

I agree that Trump would be given whatever medications he needs in order to treat the symptoms, and attempt to prevent worsening health.

Would they give him dextamethazone without seeing concerning symptoms? I don't think so. It has some serious risks and side effects and would only be given if necessary. It's not something that a responsible doctor would give to prevent symptoms, because it can't prevent sysmptoms. It can actually suppress the immune system, so it wouldn't be given unless absolutely needed. We heard that Trumps O2 levels dropped twice. Dex was probably given in response to that symptom.

Dex can also give a person (or, from my career experience, an animal) a real buzz of energy and make them feel a lot better.

From the article :

CBS News medical contributor Dr. David Agus said Sunday that Mr. Trump is on the "strongest medicines shown to have benefit, which are monoclonal antibodies, remdesivir and dexamethasone." But, Agus cautioned, dexamethasone is a "very potent steroid that can have brain effects."

"There can be a manic behavior associated with dexamethasone, so certainly important that we understand that," Agus said Sunday. "Dexamethasone is a very strong medicine. When used early in this infection, it can actually make it worse by blocking immune function. When used late, it can treat significant pulmonary inflammation, which I assume he has."


What we know about President Trump's treatment for COVID-19 so far

Those powerful systemic corticosteroids can really mess you up, they are not to be trifled with.

 

[nhmemorymaker]

Frankly, I don’t understand the vitriol toward the team of doctors caring for the President.

Remember the charade of doctors about the hydroxiquine, months ago? It is really method acting.
What did any of those doctors provide to the press conference? We are not getting the full truth, and after a while the muddling is just so frustrating and aggravating.

Mark Meadows information about T's condition sounded more focused and factual.... And then we find out that T was livid about Meadows trying to be accurate to the press corps.

Lets see where the doctors weigh in today to see what they are going to say about T going back to the WH. Were they talking to an audience of "One", or should we really believe he is on the mend enough to go back to WH...

 

[Lilibet]

My feelings are that there are two ways to exact change, either through "helping" or through "hindering." Only the first will have a lasting effect because human beings naturally push against controlling rules that hinder their way of life. So, in my opinion, educating the public and recommending the wearing of masks is going to be more fruitful than issuing mandates that result in protests and violations.

Still guidance, just more effective guidance.

JMOO

Agreed. When possible, guidance always works better than rules because it internalizes the reason for the desired result. In the case of the masks and social distancing mandates, I think education through a huge campaign of PSAs on TV, radio, internet and newspapers plus the consistent example of government leaders would have gone a long way toward ensuring compliance. We didn’t have that, so it left people feeling it was optional and that resisting was a symbol of independence.

But seatbelt laws are followed because there was an educational campaign and a slogan (at least in my state) “click it or ticket.” Maybe “mask it or casket” would be equally effective (along with the education of course). But since this pandemic is a public health emergency, there really isn’t a lot of time to gain compliance through gradual education and optional compliance. However, it wasn’t presented as an emergency in a way people could understand and get on board with, sadly. So it had to be mandated, but unfortunately without the necessary education.

 

[tresir2012]

For me, blame is neither here nor there.

But role modeling, accountability, sanity and rationality are important - or else, why do we even have law enforcement, or medicine, or teaching?

It's not that "it can happen to anyone regardless of how much they try to protect themselves." That = "Everyone can be a murderer." Not true, look up people's with Williams Syndrome - or look into yourself. Do you really think you could murder? First degree?

WS is predicated on our ability to make reasonable claims about crime and human behavior. It's so disheartening to hear

If a person does not wear a mask, and goes out in public not just once but repeatedly, you are saying that someone who has not left their (detached) home even one time during this pandemic and has had only 1-2 grocery deliveries that stay on the porch for a week...is equally likely to get it as a student who is dancing close indoors with as many people as possible?

I'm sorry if that's rude - but yes, LE and nurses and care workers and firemen and doctors get it.

You can't possibly believe that's random and that everyone takes the same chances. Well - you can believe that, but it stymies me that anyone thinks everyone has the same chance of getting it.

If you mostly stay home, have everything delivered, take precautions about handling things, wash your hands repeatedly, wear a good mask always, social distance, your chances are not equal to those who don't do those things.

How are people supposed to learn? I keep hearing "just tell them that they are risking themselves." (Apparently doesn't work). Or Give Them Consequences (seems to work in Australia, New Zealand). Or trust their common sense (doesn't work in the US apparently)? Or something else? I'm truly asking - I don't know any more. I used to think teaching was important (and still do, but apparently, it's not something a lot of other people believe in).

I realize that some people are incapable of learning or have learning deficits, but that's my point - not everyone is equally capable of almost anything. But I believe if most humans can learn to read and write well enough to apply for a driver's license and pass the DL test, they can also learn to wear some kind of mask, stay 6 feet away from the next person, and wash their hands.

If we do that - our chances of getting CoVid are so much smaller, and you'll never convince me that it's all equal.

I think people do their own risk assessments and live their own lives. We have all the info and we make our own choices.

 

[katydid23]

The risk was high for the personnel around Trump - according to physicians on staff at Walter Reed.

(They cite the hermetically sealed compartment, presumably because it becomes a soup of CoVid that must eventually escape when the occupant gets out).

‘This is insanity’: Walter Reed physician among critics of Trump drive-by visit

Washington Post has some choice quotes by Secret Service agents. They aren't getting routine testing like Trump's entourage.

According to some doctors at Walter Reed, there was no issue at all:

President Trump’s doctors at Walter Reed National Military Medical Center in Bethesda, Maryland approved his brief motorcade ride outside the hospital complex to thank his supporters gathered in front, CBS News reporter Mark Knoller reported Sunday night quoting Deputy White House Press Secretary Judd Deere.

“The movement was cleared by the medical team as safe to do,” @JuddPDeere45 tells CBS News. “Appropriate precautions were taken” to protect the Pres and all supporting his motorcade. pic.twitter.com/FLJQW04HZG

— Mark Knoller (@markknoller) October 5, 2020


ALSO:
The limo has protective glass between the POTUS and the agents. And the 'hermetically ' sealed air in the vehicle can be undone, and allow air from the outside to be recycled.

...reporter Sharyl Attkisson reported there is a glass partition in the presidential Suburban that separated Trump from the two Secret Service agents in front.




Sharyl Attkisson
Did you know: 1. President's limo doesn't always drive around "hermetically sealed"? It has capability to cut off outside air. 2. There's glass partition between masked Trump & front seat masked agents? 3. Fresh air enters thru series of high efficiency filters? #TheMoreYouKnow
Quote Tweet

Dr. James P. Phillips, MD

@DrPhillipsMD
· 13h
That Presidential SUV is not only bulletproof, but hermetically sealed against chemical attack. The risk of COVID19 transmission inside is as high as it gets outside of medical procedures. The irresponsibility is astounding. My thoughts are with the Secret Service forced to play.

 

[tresir2012]

Remember the charade of doctors about the hydroxiquine, months ago? It is really method acting.
What did any of those doctors provide to the press conference? We are not getting the full truth, and after a while the muddling is just so frustrating and aggravating.

Mark Meadows information about T's condition sounded more focused and factual.... And then we find out that T was livid about Meadows trying to be accurate to the press corps.

Lets see where the doctors weigh in today to see what they are going to say about T going back to the WH. Were they talking to an audience of "One", or should we really believe he is on the mend enough to go back to WH...

He's on the mend. Did you see the Remdesivir study and recovery stats I have posted? He wants people to know that he is recovering. The whole world is watching and talking about this.

 

[tresir2012]

He drives around with a fridge full of blood!?!?

In case of an assassination attempt I guess.

Have you ever been a situation where there was no water service and your plumbing didn't work?

If so, you'll be glad for the kitty litter.



Welcome to Websleuths!

Maybe they were told to "look like the public thinks doctors look"?

Usually, the spokes-doctors are older and have positions within the hospital hierarchy (and usually wear suits).

I think it's fair to say that young doctor didn't come immediately out of the infectious disease or presidential units.

We have big rain butts full of water so we would just use a bucket of that to flush the loo. There is nothing wrong with the sewage or septic tank system in a water shortage. Sometimes water is turned off for maintenance so we also fill the bath in advance for flushing the loo. We would never need to use kitty litter thank goodness.

 

[JerseyGirl]

Russian scientists behind Sputnik-V call on US to reconsider their vaccine following Trump diagnosis

Russian scientists responsible for creating the country's coronavirus vaccine are calling for the US to reconsider Sputnik-V following the news of US President Donald Trump’s Covid-19 diagnosis.

"Now would be a good time for the US to seriously consider the Russian vaccine to defend themselves against Covid-19," Vladimir Gushchin, head of the laboratory at the Gamaleya Institute said.

“Trump would not be in this situation if he'd been vaccinated with Sputnik-V,” Gushchin claimed.

 

[MimosaMornings]

'I'm completely sick': Alexander Zverev plays in French Open despite Covid-like symptoms — CNN

“World no.7 Alexander Zverev has revealed he played in his French Open fourth-round match on Sunday despite having Covid-like symptoms.

Zverev lost 6-3, 6-3, 4-6, 6-3 to Italian teenager Jannik Sinner at Roland Garros but admits his was feeling sick and had a high fever during the match.

"I'm completely sick. I can't really breathe, as you can hear by my voice," the 23-year-old told reporters at the post-match press conference.

"I had fever, you know, as well. Yeah I'm not in the best physical state, I would say. I think that had a little bit of an effect on the match today. I warmed up today; I shouldn't have played."

Zverev also told reporters that he had a 100.4° temperature following his victory over Marco Cecchinato in the third round on Friday.

Per the French Tennis Federation (FFT), any accredited person showing symptoms including a fever or breathing difficulties, should "report to the stadium infirmaries" for a test in a dedicated room, according to the New York Times.

In a statement sent to CNN from the FFT, it confirmed that Zverev "did not consult the tournament doctors before his match."

"Zverev is up to date on his tests, which have all been negative. His last test was on September 29, with results received on September 30. Today he received a reminder for his next test, to be carried out within 5 days of the previous results. He did not consult the tournament doctors before his match."

The US Open runner-up, who was not wearing a mask during the match, was inspected during the first set of the match by medical officials and was given nasal spray for which he used on both of his nostrils.

Last month, during the trophy presentation at the US Open, Zverev revealed his parents had tested positive for Covid-19 and couldn't be with him during that tournament.”