Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #81

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  • #341
you'd need scientific studies to know this - it's actually amazing how far even frail elderly people can make their aerosols go.

Not imply you are one - but I am implying that no one knows their vector cone of viral transmission without actual empirical studies.

No one. And it varies from moment to moment, hour to hour, day to day. You'd be surprised how far cough stuff can go (even with tiny coughs - we try to use benign bacteria that everyone has in our culture plates in my labs - which are undergrad labs, nothing sophisticated). We have all kinds of participants, including people with severe respiratory issues (such as cystic fibrosis).

Time is an element too - the droplets continue to move for quite some time, in the direction in which they were first propelled, although arcing downwards, naturally.

Spitting is entirely different, btw. Your lungs should be fairly powerful, even if you're over 65 (I don't know your age - many people don't have any decline in propulsion until 70, but in classes where I have a wide range of ages - the oldest people are usually in their late 60's, it's quite clear that student athletes can outdo them - but they do pretty well!)
No I have actually tried it - I can't spit much further than 6 feet. I actually remember having games as a kid doing it as well. Someone walking in front of us in the car yesterday suddenly gave out a load of smoke as they were vaping and as the air was cold, you could clearly see the cloud go mainly up above them but it did not go towards the people they were with. Guess that is the difference outdoors.
 
  • #342
The Nuremberg Trials put punishment in the hands of the court, thankfully. And now we have the International Criminal Court in The Hague that deals with crimes against humanity. I’ve posted this before but Brazil’s Bolsonaro has been accused of this crime for his handling of the pandemic and the court has been asked to take his case. Time will tell.

Brazil's Bolsonaro Is Accused Of Crime Against Humanity Over Coronavirus 'Neglect'
It's been reported to them but I have not heard if they have taken the case have they?
 
  • #343
We’ve seen this before. The only time we will know the truth about President Trump’s condition is if or when there is bad news that cannot be denied by the POTUS.
JMO

I agree. It's impossible to know what is actually true or not.
 
  • #344
  • #345
I agree. It's impossible to know what is actually true or not.

And will we ever know the truth? The photo of Trump “working” from the hospital was IMO very staged.
 
  • #346
Sounds like Michael Moore.

Michael Moore floats conspiracy theory that Trump may be faking Covid diagnosis

Mr Moore said that Mr Trump may have the virus, but said the president lying about the virus had to be considered.

He went on to speculate as to why Mr Trump would fake having the virus after spending months downplaying its danger and publicly undermining guidelines meant to mitigate its spread.

Mr Moore believes the president is responding to polling data that suggests he is falling behind his campaign rival in the 2020 US election, Democrat Joe Biden. Under Mr Moore's theory, Mr Trump hopes to change the media narrative and garner sympathy amoung the public by pretending to have the virus.

Michael Moore claims Trump might be faking Covid diagnosis



That's a little bit crazy, seeing as poor health is often a reason someone won't vote for a candidates.
 
  • #347
  • #348
This is the first indication I’ve seen of how long President Trump will be in the hospital, at a minimum.

On Saturday night, the White House physician, Dr. Sean P. Conley, released a new statement, saying that Mr. Trump had made “substantial progress” and would be monitored closely as he undergoes a five-day experimental antiviral drug regimen for Covid-19 and continues to receive doses of remdesivir, a drug that has shown some efficacy at speeding recovery.

“While not out of the woods, the team remains cautiously optimistic,” Dr. Conley noted.
<snip>

Many doctors stressed the critical period of time — about seven to 10 days after infection — when a patient’s condition can take a turn for the worse. Some people respond to an infection with an overly exuberant immune response that can worsen their illness and even prove fatal.

The release of only sketchy information made it difficult for outside medical experts to assess the president’s condition and the lack of clear communication was compounded by the vagaries of a virus that continues to puzzle scientists.
Covid-19 Live Updates: Trump in Hospital for 3rd Day as Questions Over Condition Mount
 
  • #349
“The president’s vitals over the last 24 hours were very concerning, and the next 48 hours will be critical in terms of his care,” Mr. Meadows told the reporters, asking not to be identified by name. “We’re still not on a clear path to a full recovery.”

In keeping with the ground rules he had set, Mr. Meadows’s remarks were attributed, in a pool report sent to White House journalists, to a person familiar with the president’s health. But a video posted online captured Mr. Meadows approaching the pool reporters outside Walter Reed after the doctors’ televised briefing and asking to speak off the record, making it clear who the unnamed source was.

The comments infuriated the president, according to people close to the situation, and he intervened directly to counter the perception that he was sicker than the White House had admitted. Within hours, he posted a message on Twitter saying, “I am feeling well!” and called his friend and personal lawyer Rudolph W. Giuliani to have him convey a message to the outside world. “I’m going to beat this,” Mr. Trump told him.

By evening, the president released a four-minute video meant to reassure the nation, showing him sitting at a conference table at the hospital and wearing a suit jacket but no tie. He looked wan and sounded less energetic than usual in a rambling message that included campaign talk and boasts about his record.

Trump’s Symptoms Described as ‘Very Concerning’ Even as Doctors Offer Rosier Picture

So reporters no longer respect "off the record" comments.

Best not to speak to reporters at all IMO.

Maybe they should just put out one official update per day. I know it will be difficult keeping POTUS off Twitter, but it is a good thing he keeps it up if he is able.
 
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  • #350
Source: Vanity Fair launched The Hive in June 2016, its online business, politics and technology news vertical. (I had to google as I didn't know if below would be MSM, it is)

“This Is Spiraling Out of Control”: Allies Panic About Trump’s Hospital Stay as White House Deflects

Two sources said doctors gave Trump an ultimatum: he could go to the hospital while he could still walk, or doctors would be forced to take him in a wheelchair or on a stretcher at a later point if his health deteriorated. ......Trump waited to leave for the hospital until the stock market closed on Friday, a source said.

On Friday, Trump grew visibly anxious as his fever spiked to 103 fahrenheit and he was administered oxygen at the White House.....Two sources told me Trump experienced heart palpitations on Friday night—possible side effects of the experimental antibody treatment he received.

10% rule.. more at link
 
  • #351
It doesn't surprise me at all that the doctors and Trump want to present a positive impression and hopeful diagnosis. That's pretty normal for many people fighting off a disease. What I can't figure out is why the WH Chief of Staff, of all people, would be leaking a different message. He's the guy who's job is to stop leaks and make sure the President looks good.
Top Trump Aide Vows People Will 'Go to Jail' Over Russia Bounty Leaks


The Financial Review seems to think that it was sloppy management.
The words that the president said in his later video seem to have pulled the contradictions together.


The White House presented sloppy and contradictory accounts of President Donald Trump's health ......

The President, looking pale, later posted a four-minute video in which he said he was “starting to feel good”, but added the real test was yet to come.
“You don’t know, over the next period of a few days, I guess that’s the real test,” he said. “So we’ll be seeing what happens over those next couple of days.”
Next 48 hours 'critical' for Trump: White House
 
  • #352
Does anyone know what happens if the President is still in hospital in four weeks time? Anything in MSM discussing that if it is not OT?
 
  • #353
OT—No, I’ve googled and haven’t found an update. There are three separate complaints against Bolsonaro apparently. We shall see.

They've closed the investigation into Bolsonaro. They say the complaint doesn't fit the definition laid out in the Rome Statute. It was likely a political move to begin with.
 
  • #354
Source: Vanity Fair launched The Hive in June 2016, its online business, politics and technology news vertical. (I had to google as I didn't know if below would be MSM, it is)

“This Is Spiraling Out of Control”: Allies Panic About Trump’s Hospital Stay as White House Deflects

Two sources said doctors gave Trump an ultimatum: he could go to the hospital while he could still walk, or doctors would be forced to take him in a wheelchair or on a stretcher at a later point if his health deteriorated. ......Trump waited to leave for the hospital until the stock market closed on Friday, a source said.

On Friday, Trump grew visibly anxious as his fever spiked to 103 fahrenheit and he was administered oxygen at the White House.....Two sources told me Trump experienced heart palpitations on Friday night—possible side effects of the experimental antibody treatment he received.

10% rule.. more at link

" “Meadows has said if Trump can get out of the hospital by Tuesday, then he’s gone through the worst of it. But if he’s still there after Tuesday, the worst is yet to come,” the source told me. "

So perhaps if the 5-day course of remdesivir isn't effective enough there is reason to worry.

IMO
 
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  • #355
That’s not the case here in OC. Our county supervisor thinks COVID is a joke.

No one at any store seems to stop people from coming in without masks. One weirdo at one of my local grocery stores has his truck completely covered in car chalk about how masks are stupid, COVID is ridiculous and no one is going to tel him to wear a mask. I’ve seen him twice go right in the store without one. No one at the store says a damn thing.

Most people do wear masks. However, a significant enough minority do not wear them properly (nose and/or mouth showing), or wear ineffective masks or none at all. I would say about 1 in 10? It depends on the store. And location. In the wealthier areas more people tend to wear masks. Even just a couple miles from the other locations.
Sorry to hear this. I know you are one who is doing the right thing. How frustrating it must be to have it undermined by the noncompliant nincompoops around you. Perhaps this person with the chalk covered vehicle will wise up now that certain top government people are infected, and take his truck through the carwash.

On one note, I was in line at the local coffee shop back when they were first allowed to reopen, and an older gentlemen came in with mask only covering his mouth. The baristas stood back from him but said nothing. The next time I went, there were signs with drawings posted on the door and windows about how to and how not to wear a mask. Nose hanging out was a no-no. Now they have no trouble pointing it out. Even the neighborhood farm stands will require you to leave unless a mask is worn.
 
  • #356
Don’t hospital patients usually have an IV in case of an emergency? And weren’t Trump’s experimental drugs given through an IV? How can a patient wear a shirt and jacket? Are we to believe he isn’t attached to monitors? BP and heart? Photo op?
 
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  • #357
Does anyone know what happens if the President is still in hospital in four weeks time? Anything in MSM discussing that if it is not OT?
Well, he’ll be in the hospital then. If the reference is to elections, this is not relevant.
 
  • #358
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  • #359
They've closed the investigation into Bolsonaro. They say the complaint doesn't fit the definition laid out in the Rome Statute. It was likely a political move to begin with.

Thanks. That article didn’t show up for me. It seemed to be a way to draw attention to several issues. I’m not sure those filing the complaint expected the ICC to take action. But in general, the ICC exists to deal with serious crimes against humanity, so there is some recourse. I guess that’s what started the discussion. :)
 
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  • #360
" “Meadows has said if Trump can get out of the hospital by Tuesday, then he’s gone through the worst of it. But if he’s still there after Tuesday, the worst is yet to come,” the source told me. "

So, if the 5-day course of remdesivir isn't effective enough there is reason to worry.

IMO
Actually in our household, DH had his worst day around day 9. (Day 9 after first symptomatic). Exposed on Monday March 30, slight symptoms by Saturday April 4, worsened next few days, tested (for regular flu and CoVid) Thursday April 9, positive for CoVid results received Saturday April 11, back to hospital with breathing issues Sunday April 12...sent back home after a few hours because hospital said he was ok to recover at home and so as not to be exposed to other viral patients. He then had a rough week with aches and pains and severe chills (no fever, no cough), and some hallucinations too. Better by the weekend of April 18-19 though fatigued for another week perhaps. Back to work and seeing clients by end of April. Merci Dieu how it all played out

My point is, he seemed fine in the beginning and Urgent Care (tele-health) and his own endocrinologist (phone conversation) were diagnosing regular flu.
 
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