Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #87

[Auntie Cipation]

It's not the dogs. It's the behavior of the people. I never thought about the poop bag dispenser (we haven't touched one since last March). Yikes.

RSBM

I live in a community that is relatively lightly hit -- we were the very last county in California to get a case -- but we are now having a "spike" and just hit 100 cases total, with 20-someodd of them currently active.

I have been masking all along but am now double-masking in most situations, and since many around me still refuse to wear any mask, when I go into a store etc I'm now actually wearing my n95s, with a cloth mask over.

Your mention of the communal doggy poop bag dispenser made me think -- I now use a disposable glove whenever I pump gas or use the ATM. Guess I would do the same if I had to touch a communal item like the bag dispenser.

 

[I'm Just Here]

I do not have support from my husband, he would still not wear a mask if he didn't need to. I have suffered from anxiety from so much going on with loved family members plus the Covid. I got some help for my anxiety but I think it is him causing some of it. I finally felt I could manage getting some groceries and went to wipe the cart handle down plus had gloves but he grabbed the cart before I could wipe the handle off and pushed it away down the isle. One time when we were riding in the car our niece called and he asked her if she was planning a visit here to see Grandma in the home, (his Mom) which we have only window visits. She said "no, you have too much Covid in the area". She got off the phone and I mentioned that our state is not doing well. He yelled at me about it is because we test so much blah blah blah. Never yelled at her though. Like I said I keep my mouth shut around him over the subject.

 

[I'm Just Here]

Double post

 

[10ofRods]

I appreciate when someone can publicly admit they were wrong. It keeps that respect level up, doesn't it?

It sure does. It's kind of like my dumb story about me edging closer to this unmasked person. In the social moment, we revert to normal patterns (this was a friend's birthday, after all).

SO, hopefully, people will realize that they can do better, and that no one is going to be perfect all the time (so stop glaring at the unmasked people and just move on!)

...have been guilty of glaring at unmasked people in the past...

 

[Lilibet]

I appreciate when someone can publicly admit they were wrong. It keeps that respect level up, doesn't it?

Yes, apologizing publicly and admitting a (stupid) mistake and saying what he should have done differently certainly gets my respect. Newsom has worked very hard to keep Californians safe and this lapse doesn’t negate that, especially since he owned it...unlike Governor Ricketts of Nebraska (in the article linked below) who did something similar, did not apologize, but lied, and has done much less than Newsom to keep his citizens safe IMO.

She Filmed Rogue Guv Maskless in a Bar. Then She Got Fired. — The Daily Beast

“About halfway through her Election Night shift at DJ’s Dugout, an Omaha-area sports bar, Karina Montanez looked up to see Nebraska Gov. Pete Ricketts smiling and laughing with a group of half a dozen women.

Just one person was wearing a mask—and it wasn’t the governor, who six days later would be forced to quarantine after, he said, he was exposed to the virus at a small, outdoor dinner party.”

 

[acutename]

With regard to surface transmission, as minimally or much as it may or may not exist, I wonder if there have been any known transmissions linked to dog parks. As I mentioned previously, I see so many people touching the same stainless steel poopybag trashcan handle all day long, no sanitizer or hand wipe afterwards, shaking hands, touching their faces, (also getting a little too close for comfort sometimes imo with each other, though the contact is not prolonged and it is outdoors) - So I wonder if this happy and casual atmosphere may make people more inclined to let their guards down overall.

Eta:
Furthermore, considering the high contagiousness of this virus, and the fact that surface transmission can occur, whether commonly or not, and knowing it can survive on stainless steel for sometime, if we entertain the above thought strictly on the basis of statistics alone...If 1 in 100 people in Colorado are infected, per Governor Polis, and if nobody ever wipes that handle, and if let’s say “X” people a day...you get my drift..

—
ETA2: I’d like to see the latest reports on surface transmission, if any exist.

most dog parks have one or two entrance gates with "hitch-type" closures, so no one is getting in or out without touching the gates. If people are not wearing gloves or hand sanitizing at the dog park (and they should have been doing that even pre-COVID in my book), they are not being smart. (our local dog parks only allow one dog at a time and no extra people, so I have not gone, but that eliminates the chance for chit chatting)

 

[Lilibet]

I do not have support from my husband, he would still not wear a mask if he didn't need to. I have suffered from anxiety from so much going on with loved family members plus the Covid. I got some help for my anxiety but I think it is him causing some of it. I finally felt I could manage getting some groceries and went to wipe the cart handle down plus had gloves but he grabbed the cart before I could wipe the handle off and pushed it away down the isle. One time when we were riding in the car our niece called and he asked her if she was planning a visit here to see Grandma in the home, (his Mom) which we have only window visits. She said "no, you have too much Covid in the area". She got off the phone and I mentioned that our state is not doing well. He yelled at me about it is because we test so much blah blah blah. Never yelled at her though. Like I said I keep my mouth shut around him over the subject.

Wow! I’m so sorry @I’m Just Here. Your husband would definitely put me into an anxiety melt-down requiring high-dose xanax! Just know that you can vent here anytime and we will hug you tight. Stay as safe as possible, please. Hugs!

 

[acutename]

Here it’s spikes AND thanks giving. A perfect combo
As Cases Spike and Thanksgiving Approaches, People Wait in Long Lines for COVID-19 Tests

Mass. COVID-19 testing sites see long lines as Thanksgiving approaches

does anyone else think that the COVID test sites will become spreader events? if the people going there are already having symptoms of something, possibly they are not 100% healthy and the "negatives" could pick up virus from the "positives." not so bad in cars, but my state has walk up test sites in places too.

 

[weepingangel]

Ha! I was just talking with some one tonight about this. I considered and then decided not to get tested last week after seeing the lines. Nope.

does anyone else think that the COVID test sites will become spreader events? if the people going there are already having symptoms of something, possibly they are not 100% healthy and the "negatives" could pick up virus from the "positives." not so bad in cars, but my state has walk up test sites in places too.

 

[margarita25]

I do not have support from my husband, he would still not wear a mask if he didn't need to. I have suffered from anxiety from so much going on with loved family members plus the Covid. I got some help for my anxiety but I think it is him causing some of it. I finally felt I could manage getting some groceries and went to wipe the cart handle down plus had gloves but he grabbed the cart before I could wipe the handle off and pushed it away down the isle. One time when we were riding in the car our niece called and he asked her if she was planning a visit here to see Grandma in the home, (his Mom) which we have only window visits. She said "no, you have too much Covid in the area". She got off the phone and I mentioned that our state is not doing well. He yelled at me about it is because we test so much blah blah blah. Never yelled at her though. Like I said I keep my mouth shut around him over the subject.

Dear I’m Just Here,

If you only knew how many times people tell me something similar, that their husbands are not taking the virus seriously, and that there is anxiety/conflict in the household as a result. If there was a forum on that subject, I’m sure it would have several posts, so know you are not alone in this.

I’m sorry you have to go through this. I am going to guess from the “testing” comment that he may be misinformed as a result of listening to misinformation and fake news.

Whatever the case, it breaks my heart to read that he pushed the shopping cart away, etc. - it is cruel imo to resist something that would make your partner feel more safe or comfortable, and of course it’s probably contributing to your anxiety - it would contribute to my anxiety too.

Without overstepping bounds and getting too personal, if I were in that situation, I would explain to my partner, that even if he doesn’t care about the virus, if you care about ME, and my well-being, and my sense of security, and what’s important to me, then you will at least try to please be respectful and take this seriously, that all this is hard enough as it is...And that we’re going to be here for a while longer, so we need to try to get through this, together...

Not taking this seriously is serious business as you know. I don’t know what I’d do if someone else in my household was undermining me and basically gambling with my health/life. Well I do know what I’d probably do - Adios. (Easier said than done, YKWIM, I’m just sayin that would be a very difficult thing to put up with.)

My words are strong, and I’m trying to be as gentle as possible, but this attitude is not cool imo, and more importantly it is dangerous, imo. Unless he wisens up and takes things seriously, the truth is you, and anyone else in your household, are in danger of getting this virus. Because imo you have to actively and responsibly and consciously defend against it. And if one is resisting it to begin with, mentally, then how cautious are they really being?

Pushing the grocery cart away may not sound like a big deal, but you know what, IT IS. Both in principle and in reality.

jmo

 

[acutename]

I cannot imagine what the plan for inauguration day will be.

THIS DAY and how it is handled will be a big deal MOO

This will be something that all will be watching.

Again, I cannot imagine yet how they are going to do it. However it is done, I assume it will send a strong message. And hope what is done aligns with the stance of protection and following guidelines. A normal inaguration day is WAY OFF all guidelines as we know it.

Folks have been so creative... and I do hope they have the best tech minds and health care folks etc. for something that is a game changer.

they can have people log in and put an avatar on a virtual picture of the Mall.... they will know exactly how many people attended as well

 

[anneg]

It sure does. It's kind of like my dumb story about me edging closer to this unmasked person. In the social moment, we revert to normal patterns (this was a friend's birthday, after all).

SO, hopefully, people will realize that they can do better, and that no one is going to be perfect all the time (so stop glaring at the unmasked people and just move on!)

...have been guilty of glaring at unmasked people in the past...

Here's my story of reverting to normal patterns. Today a friend of ours brought us a pickup truck load of firewood. DH went out to greet him and help unload the wood. After a few minutes, I went out too. Neither of them were wearing masks, and I didn't have one on either. At that point I just joined them in unloading and stacking the wood (outside).

I am really not too worried, because his behavior is much like our own, isolating except for shopping for food and other necessities. We were outdoors, and we were not talking up close. So... we'll see.

 

[acutename]

I think it goes like this.

A lady who is a cleaner at Peppers (medi hotel) caught the virus from cleaning - definitely no face to face - and touching her face.
She passed it to 2 security guards at the hotel who she chatted with.
She also took it home to her 80 year old mum (1st diagnosed case) and her hubby, her large family spread it from there.
So that is the first cluster.

One of the security guards also worked at Woodville South pizza place. He boxed up a pizza that a delivery driver picked up, and dropped it off at another medi hotel. The driver caught the virus and so did the person who received the pizza. They think those cases are from the pizza box because the driver didn't actually have any contact with the security guard. The driver just picked up the box - in its keep-hot bag - and took it to the customer.

They are trying to trace everyone who used that pizza place in a ten day period. Whether they picked up, or had received a delivered pizza.

they have been saying that surfaces like cardboard are not very good at preserving virus.... do the know if the infected pizza worker/guard was symptomatic? coughing on the box? asymptomatic? here all the food service people have to wear gloves, but for sure there are slip ups with that too...

 

[anneg]

I do not have support from my husband, he would still not wear a mask if he didn't need to. I have suffered from anxiety from so much going on with loved family members plus the Covid. I got some help for my anxiety but I think it is him causing some of it. I finally felt I could manage getting some groceries and went to wipe the cart handle down plus had gloves but he grabbed the cart before I could wipe the handle off and pushed it away down the isle. One time when we were riding in the car our niece called and he asked her if she was planning a visit here to see Grandma in the home, (his Mom) which we have only window visits. She said "no, you have too much Covid in the area". She got off the phone and I mentioned that our state is not doing well. He yelled at me about it is because we test so much blah blah blah. Never yelled at her though. Like I said I keep my mouth shut around him over the subject.

I'm sorry your husband isn't being supportive of you and is adding to your anxiety. That's a tough problem to have. I wish you well.

 

[SouthAussie]

they have been saying that surfaces like cardboard are not very good at preserving virus.... do the know if the infected pizza worker/guard was symptomatic? coughing on the box? asymptomatic? here all the food service people have to wear gloves, but for sure there are slip ups with that too...

The outside of the pizza boxes usually have large printing on them which is not porous.
The CHO says many of the infected people are asymptomatic.
I don't doubt what she says ... she is very factual and readily admits if they "don't know yet". She is not one to grasp at straws for answers.

So far today we have no more new cases, so we still have very low numbers. Hopefully we stay that way and this circuit breaker lockdown works.


ETA: They have tested over 20,000 people in the last 48 hours .. so things are looking hopeful.

 

[acutename]

Just a side note, how many of us had the words "quarantine", "isolation" and "pandemic" as words that were part of normal, every day conversation before this year?

I keep thinking that I am in a bad movie called "Escape From COVID." I guess some one will create a video game in which the virus is after you and you have to keep running, spraying hand sanitizer, etc. I am somewhat depressed by this second wave- just when we were all feeling better than we were in March/April, the infection, the death, the fear, it is all back at the door...

 

[10ofRods]

they have been saying that surfaces like cardboard are not very good at preserving virus.... do the know if the infected pizza worker/guard was symptomatic? coughing on the box? asymptomatic? here all the food service people have to wear gloves, but for sure there are slip ups with that too...

People truly underestimate the main vector: human breath. OTOH, perhaps yes, there are pizza delivery people who have COVID and have freshly sneezed on a box - which they then hand directly to a vulnerable person who eats from the box without washing their hands.

Where I live, the pizza is delivered inside a thermal box, put there by the pizza cooker (in theory). The delivery person never touches that cardboard until s/he unzips the container and hands you the pizza with a smile.

So COVID would have to come from a sneezing pizza preparer (and not the delivery person).

YUCK. Since I know my students frequently work at pizza parlors and what their stories are, I cook my own food and do not order pizza.

Gloves do almost nothing because within 5-10 seconds, the average person touches their nose or face. It's COVID theater.

Older people's immune systems need way less viral load (regardless of other health issues) to acquire the virus and are also more likely to be symptomatic. When does that start happening? Probably on average around 70, for a normal weight, active person, but certainly almost no 85 year olds have the immune systems of a 30 year old (or a 6 year old).

By 95, nearly everyone's immune system is conking out. We call it "old age," and the immune system is a big part of that aging.

So nasty pizza delivery persons meet up with elderly people? If true, I think it would be good for AARP and other organizations to try and get the word out.

But how would they know if no one studied it?

 

[acutename]

The study that was most recently written up in MSM (about dogs and grocery deliveries) was, IIRC, based on data from northern Italy. Anyway, I did read it and what stuck in my mind was that older people in Italy are more likely to have dogs than working age people. Walking their dogs several times a day is a primary means of socializing for the elderly (lots of friends to talk to, other dog owners). So. Since we are pretty sure that dogs don't transmit COVID, you are very much hot on the trail of what is really going on.

It's not the dogs. It's the behavior of the people. I never thought about the poop bag dispenser (we haven't touched one since last March). Yikes.

And I do wonder about grocery delivery in Italy, as well. It's a different situation than here (most people live in apartments with shared halls and corridors - indoors). I live in a place with a front porch. The delivery people never come inside - but they do go up and down the stairs of every apartment building in France and Italy. They are usually young (20-25) and therefore would be asymptomatic (and are also known for being highly social).

I see some of my neighbors here in SoCal (elderly) speaking unmasked at their front doors to delivery people (more than half wear masks - but the ones that don't are the ones I'd worry have COVID in the first place, obviously). Of course, I have neighbors who are running businesses out of their homes and therefore have strangers in and out of their houses all the time, and they never wear masks. I suppose I should write an article about them (case study in how to get COVID, California-style).

None of that is addressed in these behavioral studies.

I am wondering if the people most likely to get grocery delivery in the test area were most likely to be older/sicker/have a pre-existing condition.... then they would be most likely to get COVID irrespective of the delivery. Maybe the healthier younger people would be shopping for themselves?

 

[Auntie Cipation]

Gloves do almost nothing because within 5-10 seconds, the average person touches their nose or face. It's COVID theater.

Theater indeed.

When I wear a glove to touch a gas pump or ATM keypad, I've gotten in the habit of only wearing ONE glove. That way if suddenly my nose itches, I can still use my ungloved hand. I'm sure it's not a perfect solution either and it took some getting used to, but I think it helps at least a bit in keeping me from touching those communal surfaces.

 

[Tadpole12]

Oh no not da pizza.
Takeout pizza is my lifeline.
Pizza for breakfast the next morning is so good.