Coronavirus COVID-19 - Global Health Pandemic #87

[ilovewings]

The WHO and NIH disagree about Remdesivir which I think is alarming.

UK, Europe have approved it and the USA has only approved it for emergency use. It was used on Trump (however one feels about him is not important here IMO),

Dr. Andre Kalil, a University of Nebraska infectious disease specialist who helped lead the U.S. remdesivir study, said the WHO one was poorly designed, which makes its conclusions less reliable. Patients and doctors knew what treatment they were using, there was no placebo infusion to help avoid biased reporting of risks or benefits, there was little information about the severity of patients’ symptoms when treatments began and a lot of missing data, he said.

WHO study finds remdesivir didn't help COVID-19 patients

When I read this article I was alarmed by the emphasis that they placed on the drug cost instead of whether the drug works. The entire population of the world is not going to die from Covid prior to the vaccine (at least).

Why not give it to the people (all over the world) that develop the virus?

Governments have a lot of purchasing power plus there are people like Bill Gates and Bill Clinton. Those 2 helped to bring down the cost of HIV drugs to a very low cost. There are foundations and the WHO that could help fund it.

America is about to change administrations and no one knows whether the FDA will decide that it can't be administered in the USA.

I am not blaming anyone at all. I am just very concerned.

This kind of contradictory information is really very bad messaging---and is very confusing. Both the WHO and the CDC have been very disappointing during this pandemic.

 

[SouthAussie]

Must watch documentary / “American Pathogen”

You are right. It is a must watch. The US could never have been less prepared for this pandemic, despite the preparedness that you all thought was in place (and once was). It is absolutely shocking. It is horrible to think that the US was destined for this public health catastrophe. IMO

 

[ilovewings]

The WHO and NIH disagree about Remdesivir which I think is alarming.

UK, Europe have approved it and the USA has only approved it for emergency use. It was used on Trump (however one feels about him is not important here IMO),

Dr. Andre Kalil, a University of Nebraska infectious disease specialist who helped lead the U.S. remdesivir study, said the WHO one was poorly designed, which makes its conclusions less reliable. Patients and doctors knew what treatment they were using, there was no placebo infusion to help avoid biased reporting of risks or benefits, there was little information about the severity of patients’ symptoms when treatments began and a lot of missing data, he said.

WHO study finds remdesivir didn't help COVID-19 patients

When I read this article I was alarmed by the emphasis that they placed on the drug cost instead of whether the drug works. The entire population of the world is not going to die from Covid prior to the vaccine (at least).

Why not give it to the people (all over the world) that develop the virus?

Governments have a lot of purchasing power plus there are people like Bill Gates and Bill Clinton. Those 2 helped to bring down the cost of HIV drugs to a very low cost. There are foundations and the WHO that could help fund it.

America is about to change administrations and no one knows whether the FDA will decide that it can't be administered in the USA.

I am not blaming anyone at all. I am just very concerned.

This kind of contradictory information is really very bad messaging---and is very confusing. Both the WHO and the CDC have been very disappointing during this pandemic.

You are right. It is a must watch. The US could never have been less prepared for this pandemic, despite the preparedness that you all thought was in place (and once was). It is absolutely shocking. It is horrible to think that the US was destined for this public health catastrophe. IMO

It pains me so deeply that we had the worst president in history converge with the worst pandemic in 100 years---

 

[BUF]

Vaccine Discussion

—

Must watch documentary / “American Pathogen”

Thank you for posting this video “American Pathogen” @margarita25 . It is a great timeline of how we have gotten to where we are today in this pandemic.

“I’d rate it a 10. I think we’ve done a great job.”... absolutely not!!

 

[margarita25]

You are right. It is a must watch. The US could never have been less prepared for this pandemic, despite the preparedness that you all thought was in place (and once was). It is absolutely shocking. It is horrible to think that the US was destined for this public health catastrophe. IMO

I knew about the pandemic playbook, etc., but didn’t realize the extent of everything else...too much to post. I think I might remember @gitana1 talking about the CDC downsizing or whatever you want to call it in the initial days. Dr. Messonnier was also shown on this documentary.

 

[SouthAussie]

I knew about the pandemic playbook, etc., but didn’t realize the extent of everything else...too much to post. I think I might remember @gitana1 talking about the CDC downsizing or whatever you want to call it in the initial days. Dr. Messonnier was also shown on this documentary.

And the removal of all the people who were watching out for exactly something like this ..... all of your early warning systems.

 

[ilovewings]

Thank you for posting this video “American Pathogen” @margarita25 . It is a great timeline of how we have gotten to where we are today in this pandemic.

“I’d rate it a 10. I think we’ve done a great job.”... absolutely not!!

I knew about the playbook but i was not aware that Trump was informed immediately upon becoming president about the probability a pandemic was coming at some point and probably soon, and the Obama admin. made him aware of the Playbook and other tools that were ready in preparation for such an occurrence. He chose to ignore all of it and here we are today.

 

[margarita25]

And the removal of all the people who were watching out for exactly something like this ..... all of your early warning systems.

Not sure if you’ve seen this, iirc, this is the documentary which features Australia in one segment, showing their preparedness and awareness back in 2005. Iirc, Dr. Osterholm was also on Oprah in 2006, warning about a pandemic. I remember them talking about masks. One thing he also mentioned which I noted previously was that he mentioned a concern about clorine supply for water purification, iirc.

“The Coming Pandemic”, 2005 - Trailer

2006, Dr. Osterholm, Oprah:

 

[weepingangel]

Re Thanksgiving
The day before TDay is also the busiest travel day in the US iirc.
Numerous news vids this morning about already crowded airports, people not changing plans and doing their thing are too depressing to watch (many people take this as a vacation week so are already on the move)
“I gottttttta see my family”. Yah me too. On a more long term basis. The selfishness .. i just can’t comprehend it.

 

[acutename]

Regeneron was just approved on Saturday 11/21/2018 in the USA for emergency treatment,

FDA authorizes use of Regeneron's antibody cocktail given to Trump to treat Covid-19 - CNN

This is my most concerning issue:

"Unlike some other drugs used for Covid-19, the antibody cocktail is meant to be given early in infection, before patients are hospitalized or require oxygen therapy. The drug should be given as soon as possible after a positive viral test, according to the FDA."

You also have to be over 12, have a high BMI, age risk or underlying condition that makes you high risk.

In Ohio, we are NOT getting the test results for 5 - 7 days. A patient would most likely be in the hospital (in Ohio) before we knew if we are positive or not. At that point, we wouldn't qualify for the treatment.

I had a family friend that died in less than a week. We have a church friend that went into the hospital last night and she certainly didn't know about her diagnosis last week.

My healthy son and DIL survived this last week but went downhill (he did) on Day 5.

America is about to change administrations and no one knows whether the FDA will decide that it can't be administered in the USA.

I am not blaming anyone at all. I am just very concerned.

Our church friend will 'most likely' die from this but she can't get the drug because the diagnosis just came back.

thought that there was hardly any Regeneron available......
so only a few people would ever get it.... "rationed"

Regeneron's antibody drug likely to be in short supply ...
www.cnbc.com › video › 2020/11/02 › regenerons-antib...

The company plans to make 300000 doses by early 2021. Meg Tirrell joins Shep Smith to discuss what's ...
Nov 2, 2020

 

[ilovewings]

Re Thanksgiving
The day before TDay is also the busiest travel day in the US iirc.
Numerous news vids this morning about already crowded airports, people not changing plans and doing their thing are too depressing to watch (many people take this as a vacation week so are already on the move)
“I gottttttta see my family”. Yah me too. On a more long term basis. The selfishness .. i just can’t comprehend it.

Photos of those crowded airports are chilling: it is jaw dropping: these people are going to spread the virus to a point that will be unimaginable.

 

[weepingangel]

It’s stunning. Like unbelievable. I’m seeing these crowds and just imagining how many are positive based on the levels we’re currently seeing in the community and it’s just ....crazy.

Photos of those crowded airports are chilling: it is jaw dropping: these people are going to spread the virus to a point that will be unimaginable.

 

[OhioBlues]

thought that there was hardly any Regeneron available......
so only a few people would ever get it.... "rationed"

Regeneron's antibody drug likely to be in short supply ...
www.cnbc.com › video › 2020/11/02 › regenerons-antib...
View attachment 272768
The company plans to make 300000 doses by early 2021. Meg Tirrell joins Shep Smith to discuss what's ...
Nov 2, 2020

 

[OhioBlues]

I the article that I link to gave higher numbers I please refer back to that link and you will see the numbers.

Regeneron now expects to have REGEN-COV2 treatment doses ready for approximately 80,000 patients by the end of November, approximately 200,000 patients by the first week of January, and approximately 300,000 patients in total by the end of January 2021," the company said in a news release Saturday.

 

[dixiegirl1035]

The WHO and NIH disagree about Remdesivir which I think is alarming.

UK, Europe have approved it and the USA has only approved it for emergency use. It was used on Trump (however one feels about him is not important here IMO),

Dr. Andre Kalil, a University of Nebraska infectious disease specialist who helped lead the U.S. remdesivir study, said the WHO one was poorly designed, which makes its conclusions less reliable. Patients and doctors knew what treatment they were using, there was no placebo infusion to help avoid biased reporting of risks or benefits, there was little information about the severity of patients’ symptoms when treatments began and a lot of missing data, he said.

WHO study finds remdesivir didn't help COVID-19 patients

When I read this article I was alarmed by the emphasis that they placed on the drug cost instead of whether the drug works. The entire population of the world is not going to die from Covid prior to the vaccine (at least).

Why not give it to the people (all over the world) that develop the virus?

Governments have a lot of purchasing power plus there are people like Bill Gates and Bill Clinton. Those 2 helped to bring down the cost of HIV drugs to a very low cost. There are foundations and the WHO that could help fund it.

America is about to change administrations and no one knows whether the FDA will decide that it can't be administered in the USA.

I am not blaming anyone at all. I am just very concerned.

There is so much to unravel here. And MSM, nor I here in one post, can give all the background and the meaning may be misinterpreted. As Fauci says, this isn't a replacement for public health measures, it's a complement as are the vaccines.


The rationale for the WHO study was not the same as the double blind placebo trials such as was in NEJM, and weren't meant to compare to such studies. They (WHO) at the time were purposefully doing baseline studies to compare treatments of remdesivir, hydroxychloroquine, lopinavir/ritonavir (andi-HIV drugs) and interferon - and to see if any had the potential to being a "silver bullet" for 1st world and 2nd and 3rd world countries all over the world. And then other studies would know a direction to follow up.

I agree with the quote from the link within that states:

“This is a drug that has to be given by intravenous infusion for five to 10 days,” and costs about $2,550 per treatment course, he said. “COVID affects millions of people and their families around the world. We need scalable, affordable and equitable treatments.”

As to your statements:

"When I read this article I was alarmed by the emphasis that they placed on the drug cost instead of whether the drug works. The entire population of the world is not going to die from Covid prior to the vaccine (at least).

Why not give it to the people (all over the world) that develop the virus?"


MOO answer: Because it hasn't been proven to affect mortality. And to give it to people all over the world that develop the virus.... well, even if we had all the money in the world there wouldn't be resources to hospitalize them to give them all. The $$$$ to do such for the required infusions and cost for dosages would break the system. The reduction in anticipated hospitalizations would certainly focus on those that would be projected to have the worst outcomes MOO. And MOO that is a problem most of the studies have had. They are using antivirals perhaps TOO LATE in the cycle. That it takes a while to get folks in the studies, and then it's in the phase where it's not going to make a difference as it's in the destruction of the body and all the other happenings, when the anti-inflammatories perhaps are best suited? These things weren't known when the studies were intially set up perhaps to get folks on DAY 1 in a study.

Pfffft, how can that even happen to get someone in a study at the outset as that takes time to do, that folks don't get their test back soon enough etc. I have no answer to such. There lies the quandry as these are now known to be best suited to give IMMEDIATELY during the initial replication phase, and only folks like Trump and Christie have had that opportunity that can be pinpointed as an example most here can relate to iykwim. Once the cascade has started in the second stage... it's showing that there is not an opportunity to be a silver bullet unless PERHAPS combined with a second stage intervention... e.g. the anti-inflammatories etc. MOO

As to the WHO study they found those 4 were not effective, although most ALL the studies were done perhaps too late in the viral cycle to affect outcomes. And now are moving onto monoclonal antibodies and immune-modulators, (which MOO is going to have the same issue... how can those be given to EVERY SINGLE PERSON during the viral replication stage prior to going into the second stage?... and at what cost???) and letting first world countries perhaps accept/reject the small thing that came out... e.g. that it reduced hospitalization.

3rd world countries don't have the capabilities to even consider that it's good that Remdesevir reduced the hospitalization stay a few days..and they perhaps don't have the capabilities to even have huge hospitalizations for folks in the first place (remdesevir required 5 or 10 days in hospital dosaging)

Additionally, the focus for the WHO is looking for treatments that have significant outcomes such as reductions in mortality. The study found none of these 4 treatments substantially affected mortality or reduced the need to ventilate patients.

"The unpromising overall findings from the regimens tested suffice to refute early hopes, based on smaller or non-randomized studies, that any will substantially reduce inpatient mortality, initiation of ventilation or hospitalisation duration. Narrower confidence intervals would be helpful (particularly for Remdesivir), but the main need is for better treatments. Solidarity is still recruiting about 2000 patients per month, and efficient factorial designs will allow it to assess further treatments, such as immune-modulators and specific anti-SARS-Cov-2 monoclonal antibodies."

Ooops, I'll be back with links and 4+ ETAs for each...............brb

#1 ETA WHO study https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2020.10.15.20209817v1.full.pdf

#2 MSM link from above which is a month late... but is hitting MSM now WHO study finds remdesivir didn't help COVID-19 patients

#3 Remdesivir for the Treatment of Covid-19 — Final Report (NEJM) | https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMoa2007764

#4 MedCram video, see links and comments

@margarita25 @10ofRods

 

[ilovewings]

It’s stunning. Like unbelievable. I’m seeing these crowds and just imagining how many are positive based on the levels we’re currently seeing in the community and it’s just ....crazy.

What is worse is these people don't care about spreading infection--- selfish doesn't even describe it!

 

[dixiegirl1035]

Regeneron was just approved on Saturday 11/21/2018 in the USA for emergency treatment,

FDA authorizes use of Regeneron's antibody cocktail given to Trump to treat Covid-19 - CNN

This is my most concerning issue:

"Unlike some other drugs used for Covid-19, the antibody cocktail is meant to be given early in infection, before patients are hospitalized or require oxygen therapy. The drug should be given as soon as possible after a positive viral test, according to the FDA."

You also have to be over 12, have a high BMI, age risk or underlying condition that makes you high risk.

In Ohio, we are NOT getting the test results for 5 - 7 days. A patient would most likely be in the hospital (in Ohio) before we knew if we are positive or not. At that point, we wouldn't qualify for the treatment.

I had a family friend that died in less than a week. We have a church friend that went into the hospital last night and she certainly didn't know about her diagnosis last week.

My healthy son and DIL survived this last week but went downhill (he did) on Day 5.

America is about to change administrations and no one knows whether the FDA will decide that it can't be administered in the USA.

I am not blaming anyone at all. I am just very concerned.

Our church friend will 'most likely' die from this but she can't get the drug because the diagnosis just came back.

Yes, see above comment about ability to give to all at the outset, the cost to give to all, the difficulties in getting tests soon enough to make a difference in STAGE 1 of the disease during replication, the ability to prioritize, the ability to have the priorities designated on who gets the limited numbers each day etc etc etc.

Just yesterday, 178,000 folks were positive. Can we give to that many each day this treatment/at what cost/with what resources? And would it be timely to make a difference as testing is not a PRIORITY to even consider MOO

It's a cluster.

.... @SouthAussie and folks here in countries where they realized that putting the unbelievable monies up front (at the time others thought) has shown the dividends for that investment MOO.

(Searching for stories on actual investments for such vs. cost for not doing... perhaps others will post as all is MOO as most here have indeed seen cost for not doing is lives... but would like to butress for others that inquire as to $$$)

 

[weepingangel]

Hospitals nationwide face shortage of medical staff amid spike in COVID-19 cases

More at link
Twenty-two percent say they'll face a critical staff shortage in the next week.
ABC News
November 21, 2020, 5:01 AM
Goshen Health Hospital in Indiana has had to issue a public call for help from people with medical experience. In a Facebook post, the CEO wrote, “We invite you to consider if you are someone who could make a difference.”

The Mayo Clinic in Minnesota is bringing back retirees, redeploying employees from other parts of the country, and reassigning researchers to patient care after
905 employees contracted COVID-19 in the last two weeks.

And in North Dakota, the governor announced last week that to avoid a shortage of staff the state would implement “crisis” guidelines that allow nurses who test positive for COVID-19 to continue to work, as reported by the Grand Forks Herald.

Hospitals across the country are facing an influx of COVID-19 patients, the most Americans hospitalized for the disease at any other point in the pandemic. And after struggling with shortages of personal protective equipment, intensive care unit beds, ventilators and other equipment, hospitals are now facing a shortage of a harder to replace resource - health care workers.

 

[BUF]

Twitter

BREAKING The U.S. reported a record 83,081 coronavirus hospitalizations on Saturday. Hospitalizations have grown 75% this month.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/grap...ases-deaths/?itid=hp_pandemic-guide-box-1-1-1

 

[MimosaMornings]

People are just burned out on Covid it seems like. They just seem to have minimized it, and normalized it, to the point that "It is just "flu"." Has become the new mantra around here.

That seems to be especially a prevalent attitude from employers. From their home offices, via telework, on the computer.

“It’s not real” was common around here but has been replaced by “I tested positive a week after I got a flu shot” so it’s a conspiracy.