Coronavirus Global Health Emergency, 2019-nCoV #2

[dixiegirl1035]

Thank you for the response.

So now, there is an article from Science magazine, which says the aspect of asymptomatic transmission (which as we know was learned from the German cases per Dr. Fauci), is flawed.

Bringing link forward from upstream / I would like to study/discuss this further, as it’s a major factor in all of this, imo:

Study claiming new coronavirus can be transmitted by people without symptoms was flawed | Science | AAAS

Yes, if you go to the article there is a discussion on what is deemed asymptomatic. The person was tired and had muscle aches and took an equivalent of Tylenol. That was her symptom and is being ballied about. She did not have a fever, did not have a cough, did not have a sore throat, did not have trouble breathing. Jeez... if being tired is a symptom that is being discussed,. MOO, that's not the WHO case definition so I can understand why it's called asymptomatic transmission.

"The letter in NEJM described a cluster of infections that began after a businesswoman from Shanghai visited a company near Munich on 20 and 21 January, where she had a meeting with the first of four people who later fell ill. Crucially, she wasn’t sick at the time: “During her stay, she had been well with no sign or symptoms of infection but had become ill on her flight back to China,” the authors wrote. “The fact that asymptomatic persons are potential sources of 2019-nCoV infection may warrant a reassessment of transmission dynamics of the current outbreak.”


Some are calling it flawed because she was tired, she had muscle aches and therefore had symptoms.

"Afterward, however, RKI and the Health and Food Safety Authority of the state of Bavaria did talk to the Shanghai patient on the phone, and it turned out she did have symptoms while in Germany. According to people familiar with the call, she felt tired, suffered from muscle pain, and took paracetamol, a fever-lowering medication."


Health folks fighting about such.... again, she didn't meet the WHO case definition of symptoms. Does WHO need to change symptoms to include muscle pain, egads!

 

[margarita25]

For sure. I cant imagine what this is like. And for ill who are dying, alone and isolated. No loved one to hold their hand as they pass on....just devastating.

Here’s something else I was thinking about re: this:

Earlier I said it’s bad enough for these poor people that they may be sick themselves or have to worry about getting sick, (and not being able to work, etc) but they also may be dealing with loved ones who may be ill and hospitalized at the same time.

Well it occurred to me, that considering the infectious aspect of “close contact”, there could be people with several family members ill, like their entire household.

—-

Here’s another thing I’m wondering about, we know transmission occurs via lung secretion and “droplets” (and now possibly “fecal-oral”, per the latest articles above irrc)—so, my question is, it seems odd to me that 17,000 people are infected via “droplets”, meaning if they’re wearing masks, hard to explain my thought, grrr. I guess I’m just wondering about people coughing and sneezing all over each other and...I’m sorry I’m having trouble bringing this thought to fruition. Let’s just say I’m still really wondering about surface contamination. Hopefully I figure out how to express what I’m thinking better later.

I am really interested in the early days of the transmission.

—-

(Can barely post or read, forum isn’t loading well at all )

 

[Tadpole12]

I hope we hear from Fang Bin when this is all settled down. I'm worried for him down the road......

yes, iirc the Chinese saying, from CQ's video,
"little birds and mice disappear"

 

[dixiegirl1035]

First coronavirus death reported in Hong Kong - RTHK

"A 39-year-old man....has died and second fatality reported outside the mainland. A Wuhan resident who travelled to Philippines had died in the Philippines earlier. The Hong Kong resident who died on Tuesday had an underlying illness and had travelled to Wuhan on January 21.

His 72-year-old mother has also been confirmed of carrying the Wuhan virus later. She also has an underlying illness and was first put into a quarantine camp first and was sent to hospital after developing fever and cough. She was later transferred to Princess Margaret Hospital on Sunday.The Centre for Health Protection had said he hadn't visited any health care facilities, wet markets or seafood markets, nor had any exposure to wild animals during the incubation period."

 

[dotr]

Catching up, sorry if already posted, disturbing stuff, imo.
Chinese 'whistleblower' doctor now has coronavirus - CNN
''Updated 10:25 PM ET, Mon February 3, 2020
(CNN)On December 30, Li Wenliang dropped a bombshell in his medical school alumni group on the popular Chinese messaging app WeChat: seven patients from a local seafood market had been diagnosed with a SARS-like illness and quarantined in his hospital.

Li explained that, according to a test he had seen, the illness was a coronavirus -- a large family of viruses that includes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).
Memories of SARS run deep in China, where a pandemic in 2003 killed hundreds following a government cover up. "I only wanted to remind my university classmates to be careful," he said.
I only wanted to remind my university classmates to be careful

Li, a 34-year-old doctor working in Wuhan, the central Chinese city at the epicenter of the deadly coronavirus outbreak, told his friends to warn their loved ones privately. But within hours screenshots of his messages had gone viral -- without his name being blurred. "When I saw them circulating online, I realized that it was out of my control and I would probably be punished," Li said.
He was right.
Soon after he posted the message, Li was accused of rumor-mongering by the Wuhan police. He was one of several medics targeted by police for trying to blow the whistle on the deadly virus in the early weeks of the outbreak. The virus has since claimed at least 425 lives and sickened more than 20,000 people globally -- including Li.

Wuhan doctor Li Wenliang in an intensive care bed on oxygen support after contracting the coronavirus.

''From an intensive care bed in hospital, Li told CNN he was confirmed Saturday to have contracted the virus.
His diagnosis has sparked outrage across China, where a backlash is growing against state censorship around the illness and an initial delay in warning the public about the deadly virus''

''On January 1, the Wuhan police announced it had "taken legal measures" against eight people who had recently "published and shared rumors online" about the pneumonia-like illness and "caused adverse impacts on society."

 

[margarita25]

First coronavirus death reported in Hong Kong - RTHK

"A 39-year-old man....has died and second fatality reported outside the mainland. A Wuhan resident who travelled to Philippines had died in the Philippines earlier. The Hong Kong resident who died on Tuesday had an underlying illness and had travelled to Wuhan on January 21.

His 72-year-old mother has also been confirmed of carrying the Wuhan virus later. She also has an underlying illness and was first put into a quarantine camp first and was sent to hospital after developing fever and cough. She was later transferred to Princess Margaret Hospital on Sunday.The Centre for Health Protection had said he hadn't visited any health care facilities, wet markets or seafood markets, nor had any exposure to wild animals during the incubation period."

This is so sad.

 

[MimosaMornings]

Yes, if you go to the article there is a discussion on what is deemed asymptomatic. The person was tired and had muscle aches and took an equivalent of Tylenol. That was her symptom and is being ballied about. She did not have a fever, did not have a cough, did not have a sore throat, did not have trouble breathing. Jeez... if being tired is a symptom that is being discussed,. MOO, that's not the WHO case definition so I can understand why it's called asymptomatic transmission.

"The letter in NEJM described a cluster of infections that began after a businesswoman from Shanghai visited a company near Munich on 20 and 21 January, where she had a meeting with the first of four people who later fell ill. Crucially, she wasn’t sick at the time: “During her stay, she had been well with no sign or symptoms of infection but had become ill on her flight back to China,” the authors wrote. “The fact that asymptomatic persons are potential sources of 2019-nCoV infection may warrant a reassessment of transmission dynamics of the current outbreak.”


Some are calling it flawed because she was tired, she had muscle aches and therefore had symptoms.

"Afterward, however, RKI and the Health and Food Safety Authority of the state of Bavaria did talk to the Shanghai patient on the phone, and it turned out she did have symptoms while in Germany. According to people familiar with the call, she felt tired, suffered from muscle pain, and took paracetamol, a fever-lowering medication."


Health folks fighting about such.... again, she didn't meet the WHO case definition of symptoms. Does WHO need to change symptoms to include muscle pain, egads!

Muscle pain - slight, probably wouldn’t take anything. Unless I had been doing something physically strenuous or stepped it up at the gym and experiencing moderate pain. I would probably ice the area that was painful unless it was an all over the body type of pain. Don’t a lot of viruses start with a achy tired feeling?

 

[margarita25]

Canadian experts agree with the science behind this:

Infectious Disease Expert Discusses Coronavirus with CBC

Random thought, considering the bat connection, does this virus exist in caves? Likely, moo.

Another random thought, if the numbers start rising over the next couple weeks (in USA/Canada), which it seems some experts are predicting,
I would think twice about “partaking” and “puffing and passing” at parties or “sharing bowls”, just sayin, MOO - BYO Spliff, kwim - there’s a lot of “coughing” that can go on after a “bong hit”.

(ETA: You know, just in case any of you have a bong party planned, or are planning to attend a Pink Floyd concert )

 

[Trino]

Should we even comment about people who cannot financially afford to be sick and go to work?

 

[gregjrichards]

Catching up, sorry if already posted, disturbing stuff, imo.
Chinese 'whistleblower' doctor now has coronavirus - CNN
''Updated 10:25 PM ET, Mon February 3, 2020
(CNN)On December 30, Li Wenliang dropped a bombshell in his medical school alumni group on the popular Chinese messaging app WeChat: seven patients from a local seafood market had been diagnosed with a SARS-like illness and quarantined in his hospital.

Li explained that, according to a test he had seen, the illness was a coronavirus -- a large family of viruses that includes severe acute respiratory syndrome (SARS).
Memories of SARS run deep in China, where a pandemic in 2003 killed hundreds following a government cover up. "I only wanted to remind my university classmates to be careful," he said.
I only wanted to remind my university classmates to be careful

Li, a 34-year-old doctor working in Wuhan, the central Chinese city at the epicenter of the deadly coronavirus outbreak, told his friends to warn their loved ones privately. But within hours screenshots of his messages had gone viral -- without his name being blurred. "When I saw them circulating online, I realized that it was out of my control and I would probably be punished," Li said.
He was right.
Soon after he posted the message, Li was accused of rumor-mongering by the Wuhan police. He was one of several medics targeted by police for trying to blow the whistle on the deadly virus in the early weeks of the outbreak. The virus has since claimed at least 425 lives and sickened more than 20,000 people globally -- including Li.

Wuhan doctor Li Wenliang in an intensive care bed on oxygen support after contracting the coronavirus.

''From an intensive care bed in hospital, Li told CNN he was confirmed Saturday to have contracted the virus.
His diagnosis has sparked outrage across China, where a backlash is growing against state censorship around the illness and an initial delay in warning the public about the deadly virus''

''On January 1, the Wuhan police announced it had "taken legal measures" against eight people who had recently "published and shared rumors online" about the pneumonia-like illness and "caused adverse impacts on society."

This is very concerning but not at all surprising. I hope Dr. Wenliang survives and recovers.

 

[margarita25]

China-Vietnam cruise had at least three coronavirus cases, doctor says
Published: 9:26pm, 3 Feb, 2020

• Coronavirus confirmed in at least three passengers who sailed from Guangzhou to Vietnam, with two further cases suspected
• Cruise ship containing more than 4,000 passengers sailed on January 19 for five nights, before ferrying new passengers to Hong Kong

[...]

““There was a clear risk of
cross-contagion
on board the cruise ship,” said the doctor, who declined to be named as they are not authorised to speak to the media. But the doctor said she decided to disclose the information out of concern that thousands of passengers from the same cruise were at large, even though it has not been confirmed that there was an outbreak on board.”

 

[gregjrichards]

Glasgow bar offers free face masks with bottles of Corona after coronavirus outbreak

Oswald's in Glasgow claim they've sold more Corona than anything else since the deal was launched.

Scots bar offers free face masks with Corona bottles after coronavirus outbreak

 

[dotr]

https://www.ontario.ca/page/2019-novel-coronavirus-2019-ncov#section-0
''Status of cases in Ontario
Every weekday at 10:30 a.m. ET, this web page will be updated with the most up-to-date information on the status of cases in Ontario.

The symptoms of the 2019 novel coronavirus, which can include fever and cough, are similar to other respiratory infections, including influenza. As a result, individuals who may simply have the flu are being tested out of an abundance of caution and in line with Ontario’s robust detection protocols. This means that most individuals who are tested are unlikely to be infected with the 2019 novel coronavirus.

Cases currently under investigation Presumptive confirmed cases Confirmed cases
29 0 3
Last updated: February 3, 2020 at 10:30 a.m. ET''

''Coronaviruses are spread mainly from person to person through close contact, for example, in a household, workplace or health care centre.

Some human coronaviruses spread easily between people, while others do not.

Your risk of severe disease may be higher if you have a weakened immune system. This may be the case for
older peoplepeople with chronic disease (for example, diabetes, cancer, heart, renal or chronic lung disease)''

 

[gregjrichards]

Campaigners have urged China to apply a permanent ban on the wildlife trade following the coronavirus outbreak.

Markets selling live animals are considered a potential source of diseases that are new to humans.

There has been speculation just such a market in Wuhan could have been the starting point for the outbreak.

China put a temporary ban on the trade in wildlife as one measure to control the spread of coronavirus, but conservationists say it's not enough.

They argue that, in addition to protecting human health, a permanent ban would be a vital step in the effort to end the illegal trading of wildlife.

'Make coronavirus wildlife trade ban permanent'

This needs to be done this outbreak cannot be allowed to happen again in the future.

 

[margarita25]

“Vietnam has joined Thailand, China, Germany, Japan, South Korea, France and the United States as the only countries with confirmed domestic coronavirus infections.”
2 Feb, 2020

Vietnam backtracks on Hong Kong and Taiwan flight ban over virus fears

 

[gregjrichards]

Thousands of pets trapped in the epicentre of China's deadly coronavirus outbreak are at risk of starving to death, according to animal rescuers and activists.

The warning comes as campaigners claim local governments have called for pet dogs and cats to be culled, due to discredited concerns they can be infected with the illness that began in the Hubei province city of Wuhan.

Coronavirus: Thousands of abandoned pets 'at risk of starving to death'

I can’t bear the thought of these poor animals suffering.

 

[margarita25]

Thousands of pets trapped in the epicentre of China's deadly coronavirus outbreak are at risk of starving to death, according to animal rescuers and activists.

The warning comes as campaigners claim local governments have called for pet dogs and cats to be culled, due to discredited concerns they can be infected with the illness that began in the Hubei province city of Wuhan.

Coronavirus: Thousands of abandoned pets 'at risk of starving to death'

I can’t bear the thought of these poor animals suffering.

Greg, I was happy to hear about an animal rescue group on the ground in Wuhan. There was an invaluable video posted by an Irish teacher in Wuhan (now evacuated) who filmed his trip to the grocery store and there was a puppy on the street. He later addressed questions about the Puppy in another video and commented about the rescue group.
I think I @dotr posted some of the videos, I’ll grab them for you in case you haven’t seen them.

These videos also address a lot of other “issues on the ground”. He clarified that there is no shortage of food, grocery stores are constantly getting deliveries. He also commented that there is a high level of sanitation going on in the streets. Brb with videos.

News4

ETA: I’m afraid the sad truth is that cats and dogs have been suffering for a long time in China, well before the CV. But I hope all this will bring some attention to those unspeakable issues also!!
It is awful pets are now starving.

 

[MJPeony]

So when is one who has been infected with the virus deemed “non contagious”? This may be an ignorant question, but is a swab/blood test for a virus have a value that needs to get to zero, or is it just yes or no?

Do hospitals just keep taking patient samples to test before they label them “recovered” and then send them out to the world?

Seems odd they’d have the bandwidth to be testing and retesting patients when they are overwhelmed with just getting beds for the sick. Also would seem hard to keep getting these tests done when the current reports are that it takes some time to get the test results.

 

[margarita25]

So when is one who has been infected with the virus deemed “non contagious”? This may be an ignorant question, but is a swab/blood test for a virus have a value that needs to get to zero, or is it just yes or no?

Do hospitals just keep taking patient samples to test before they label them “recovered” and then send them out to the world?

Seems odd they’d have the bandwidth to be testing and retesting patients when they are overwhelmed with just getting beds for the sick. Also would seem hard to keep getting these tests done when the current reports are that it takes some time to get the test results.

All excellent questions - So many unknowns. One thing I’m finding fascinating is watching the various countries in their labs racing to study this virus. I’ve seen lab videos/references from all over the world now on YT, various nations trying to develop vaccines, etc.

 

[MistyWaters]

New coronavirus may be no more dangerous than the flu, despite worldwide alarm: experts

“..........as evidence of the severity and transmissabilty of 2019-nCoV trickles in, infectious-disease experts say it’s appearing less menacing than first thought, maybe more like seasonal flu than, say, SARS.

The apparently high mortality rates that dominated headlines initially have shrunk as the number of infections grows, and many of the infected appear to have mild or no symptoms.

To some scientists, the situation is reminiscent of the H1N1 pandemic flu of 2009, which burst onto the scene with a frightening spate of deaths in Mexico, only to be viewed as relatively innocuous by the time it petered out for the season.

“Upfront, what you tend to see is probably an over-representation of severe cases that are getting reported,” said Jason Kindrachuk, Canada Research Chair in emerging viruses at the University of Manitoba.

The people who bring a new infection to the fore are those ill enough to seek medical help and get tested, he noted.

“But there are probably a ton of cases in the background that people just thought were mild cases of flu.”

Kindrachuk and other scientists stress that the jury is still out on the new coronavirus, and say that even if it turns out to be a relatively mild disease, health authorities are right to take it very seriously.

But the sense that the media, public and some nations have over-reacted is beginning to seep into conversation.....”