Could Patsy's Cocktails Have Played A Part In Her Rage Attack?

[SeekingJana]

When this case was FRESH and commanded the attention of forensic experts, Dr. Henry Lee was called in to review the meager DNA found. While his personally selected endeavors seem to have shifted in the past few years, he was a leading forensic DNA expert without prejudice at the time of JonBenet's death.

He was interviewed and perhaps overstepped the bounds of privacy in the investigation, because he gave us more professional information about the DNA than we had previously or since.
He stated unequivocally that the Ramsey case is NOT a DNA case.
Mary Lacy tried to turn this into a DNA case for her own personal reasons, and the results were abysmal. She plainly did not know what she was talking about.

Although there have been some refinements in DNA processing and testing since Dr. Lee's evaluation of the physical evidence in the case, we have been told for years that most, if not all, of the minute unsourced and incomplete DNA markers present on JBR's body were destroyed in initial testing. The results remain, but there were so few markers that it is doubtful that the results could ever rule in or rule out anyone.
As an aside- Even John Mark Karr was not eliminated due to DNA but because he was proved to not be in Boulder at the time of the murder. Mary Lacy really doesn't want you to know that it was not DNA which cleared him because his whereabouts should have been vetted before the scum was flown back to the States.
She has lied about the DNA results more than once, and with transparent ignorance of the science.

Because the principles and properties of DNA do not change, it is my personal belief that Dr. Henry Lee was speaking an elementary truth about this murder case. It was not a DNA case when he was a consultant for the investigators, and it is not a DNA case all these years later.

JonBenet had layers of dried caked DNA under her fingernails on autopsy, indicating that she had not bathed or washed her hands for a longer period of time than we like to think about..possibly days. Kind of fits with Patsy's excuse of her " broken shower". I don't think Patsy placed too high a premium on personal hygiene for herself or her children.

To those of you who state that sterilized nail clippers were not used, I would like to point out that JonBenet had long nails for a child and the LAYERS of crud under her nails would be there regardless of how the nails were clipped off the body.

JMO,
Maria

 

[JMO8778]

The puzzle represents reality, therefore all valid pieces will fit.

...and according to you,only YOUR pieces fit.and those are only the IDI pieces.the rest you ignore and/or toss aside.
You are doing what has been done from the beginning of time,Hold..concentrating only on one thing,while discounting the rest.It's been done before.
And making yourself out to be the 'victim' of us doesn't really fly well,either.It's an old tactic as well,and no one is making you torture yourself by reading here,if indeed our posts are really that terrible for you.
That you have 'learned' here really doesn't provide adequate explanation as to the continued self-torture you claim to have inflicted upon yourself by reading our 'oh-so-terrible' posts.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

...and according to you,only YOUR pieces fit.and those are only the IDI pieces.the rest you ignore and/or toss aside.
You are doing what has been done from the beginning of time,Hold..concentrating only on one thing,while discounting the rest.It's been done before.
And making yourself out to be the 'victim' of us doesn't really fly well,either.It's an old tactic as well,and no one is making you torture yourself by reading here,if indeed our posts are really that terrible for you.
That you have 'learned' here really doesn't provide adequate explanation as to the continued self-torture you claim to have inflicted upon yourself by reading our 'oh-so-terrible' posts.

:laugh:

 

[DeeDee249]

When this case was FRESH and commanded the attention of forensic experts, Dr. Henry Lee was called in to review the meager DNA found. While his personally selected endeavors seem to have shifted in the past few years, he was a leading forensic DNA expert without prejudice at the time of JonBenet's death.

He was interviewed and perhaps overstepped the bounds of privacy in the investigation, because he gave us more professional information about the DNA than we had previously or since.
He stated unequivocally that the Ramsey case is NOT a DNA case.
Mary Lacy tried to turn this into a DNA case for her own personal reasons, and the results were abysmal. She plainly did not know what she was talking about.

Although there have been some refinements in DNA processing and testing since Dr. Lee's evaluation of the physical evidence in the case, we have been told for years that most, if not all, of the minute unsourced and incomplete DNA markers present on JBR's body were destroyed in initial testing. The results remain, but there were so few markers that it is doubtful that the results could ever rule in or rule out anyone.
As an aside- Even John Mark Karr was not eliminated due to DNA but because he was proved to not be in Boulder at the time of the murder. Mary Lacy really doesn't want you to know that it was not DNA which cleared him because his whereabouts should have been vetted before the scum was flown back to the States.
She has lied about the DNA results more than once, and with transparent ignorance of the science.

Because the principles and properties of DNA do not change, it is my personal belief that Dr. Henry Lee was speaking an elementary truth about this murder case. It was not a DNA case when he was a consultant for the investigators, and it is not a DNA case all these years later.

JonBenet had layers of dried caked DNA under her fingernails on autopsy, indicating that she had not bathed or washed her hands for a longer period of time than we like to think about..possibly days. Kind of fits with Patsy's excuse of her " broken shower". I don't think Patsy placed too high a premium on personal hygiene for herself or her children.

To those of you who state that sterilized nail clippers were not used, I would like to point out that JonBenet had long nails for a child and the LAYERS of crud under her nails would be there regardless of how the nails were clipped off the body.

JMO,
Maria

The autopsy report stated only that "the fingernails are of sufficient length for clipping". I don't recall seeing any mention there of layers of crud, though I agree about PR being lax about bathing her daughter, and it would be no surprise for her nails to be dirty. Even if there WERE layers of crud- using unsterile nail clippers that may have been used on other bodies completely negates any DNA found there. In doesn't matter how her nails were clipped, but is does matter what they were clipped with. A new or sterile clipper should be used for EACH finger. Especially in a homicide.

 

[Tadpole12]

Sorry, not fully understanding your posts. I don't know what 'twelvefold' means in this context, or what 'constraints' you belive I'm under..

Hi Hotyh,


twelvefolde*, 'cuz there's bout twelve posters discussing this topic .... here, or probably anywhere online, and your 'lone' opinion is more than adequate, and obviously, highly debatable here, so actually not dismissed?

constraints? I'm terrible with words, always searching for the 'right' word, isn't that what you were saying? about your feelings that your opinions are/were being dismissed? You're a miniority, and as you perceive limited as a minority?

My opinions are dismissed, regardless. That much is a fact. The bit of information that PR misspelled 'advise' as 'advize' in both her right and left hand exemplars, as pointed out by myself and other IDI-ists, was DISMISSED, REGARDLESS of the fact that it was a genuine observation made years after the fact. Do you know how RDI casually dismissed this new information out-of-hand? By suddenly manufacturing a new story whereby PR 'deliberately' misspelled the word to 'throw off' investigators, who oddly never noticed.

The only rational explanation for 'advize' and 'advise' is that PR and the RN author are two different people. RDI has and will forever be in denial of the facts of this case, as demonstrated by quick fabrications to account for newly discovered evidence that favors IDI.

Hey, Hotyh ... your discovery of PR's misspelling of the word advise. ubercool!

Rationalizations:
"The only rational explanation for 'advize' and 'advise' is that PR and the RN author are two different people."-Hotyh

I have 'rationalized'/ considered that either PR purposely misspelled the/a word, or that her lawyers or JR advised her to do so, or that PR had by human error misspelled the word twice that day.
I've never come to the conclusion that you've drawn, as I believe it is not sound.
Rationally, statistically, not even scientifically, if you believe hand writing analysis is a science, then can that one misspelling be represenative of guilt or innocence? That's a huge jump? IMO

 

[LinasK]

None of this explains the fact that the DNA found on JBR's long johns matches the DNA on her underwear, and that sent RDI SCRAMBLING FOR A NEW STORY.

The old story: 'innocent transfer from factory worker'
The new story: 'innocent transfer by JBR herself, from an unknown but presumed innocent source'

C'mon SD, how much BS can RDI hold before it explodes? Lets presume the DNA is from an innocent source, AND JBR moved it around herself. Thats two baseless, uncorroborated claims. Do you know what baseless, uncorroborated explanations are, in reality? They're called F-I-C-T-I-O-N.

Meanwhile, how is your RDI puzzle coming along. Are all the pieces fitting nicely?

And the explanation for John's shirt fibers in JB's panties is far less innocent...:furious:

 

[BBB167893]

And the explanation for John's shirt fibers in JB's panties is far less innocent...:furious:

Sorry, LinasK. Looks like I called you here for nothing.

 

[LinasK]

Sorry, LinasK. Looks like I called you here for nothing.

No problem, always glad to be of service!:blowkiss:

 

[BBB167893]

No problem, always glad to be of service!:blowkiss:

Well, I'm just glad today!

 

[JMO8778]

The autopsy report stated only that "the fingernails are of sufficient length for clipping". I don't recall seeing any mention there of layers of crud, though I agree about PR being lax about bathing her daughter, and it would be no surprise for her nails to be dirty. Even if there WERE layers of crud- using unsterile nail clippers that may have been used on other bodies completely negates any DNA found there. In doesn't matter how her nails were clipped, but is does matter what they were clipped with. A new or sterile clipper should be used for EACH finger. Especially in a homicide.

It appears the coroner purposely messed up this case from the very beginning.This was a child murder..he KNEW better ! He failed to take an internal body temp.,failed to use proper procedure to clip her nails...SD,do you have any opinion on it? To me it seems he was either paid to make mistakes,or warned in advance that he'd better muck it up..or else!

 

[JMO8778]

:laugh:

goodness,that reminds me of an old Burma Shave slogan:
These signs are not
for laughs alone,
The face they save
may be your own!

 

[BBB167893]

It appears the coroner purposely messed up this case from the very beginning.This was a child murder..he KNEW better ! He failed to take an internal body temp.,failed to use proper procedure to clip her nails...SD,do you have any opinion on it? To me it seems he was either paid to make mistakes,or warned in advance that he'd better muck it up..or else!

My opinion? He probably had to go with one set of clippers because some bean-counter made "cutbacks."

 

[RiverRat]

The rest of the pieces? Well, you've got a ransom note, a large collection of interlocked pieces with several missing ones.

You've got the R's behavior after-the-fact, but I don't think PR sitting in a room is really interlocked with JR's arrangement to leave town. They only tessellate a bit. As puzzle pieces go, we know the cord is interlocked with JBR's wrist. We know the other cord is interlocked with a paintbrush.

qqqqqqqqqqqq
888888888888

Big Difference........so how do you explain the Intruder's identical match to Patsy's handwriting in that Ransom NOTe?

 

[JMO8778]

My opinion? He probably had to go with one set of clippers because some bean-counter made "cutbacks."

sure,but couldn't he have at least cleaned them in between clippings?I'm just also thinking of that,combined with the slackness of not taking her internal body temp. as well.I don't know if I missed anything else,hopefully I didn't.

 

[BBB167893]

sure,but couldn't he have at least cleaned them in between clippings?I'm just also thinking of that,combined with the slackness of not taking her internal body temp. as well.I don't know if I missed anything else,hopefully I didn't.

You'd be surprised at how many slipshod coroners there are.

 

[DeeDee249]

You'd be surprised at how many slipshod coroners there are.

Yes, that is certainly true a lot of times. But, even nail salons can dip the clippers in Barbecide between clients. I can't believe the morgue didn't have Clorox on hand. Keep a small bowl of it, just dip the clippers in.
It does almost seem that he was told to not be as thorough as he could. I mean, skipping the two important procedures to establish TOD was unconscionable. I know the DA passed down the word to "treat these people like victims, not suspects", but a coroner should still have treated the victim like a victim.

 

[RiverRat]

Yes, that is certainly true a lot of times. But, even nail salons can dip the clippers in Barbecide between clients. I can't believe the morgue didn't have Clorox on hand. Keep a small bowl of it, just dip the clippers in.
It does almost seem that he was told to not be as thorough as he could. I mean, skipping the two important procedures to establish TOD was unconscionable. I know the DA passed down the word to "treat these people like victims, not suspects", but a coroner should still have treated the victim like a victim.

The same coroner that left JonBenet laying on the floor from early afternoon when she was found until much later in the evening before he finally made his arrival to pronounce her dead........

 

[DeeDee249]

The same coroner that left JonBenet laying on the floor from early afternoon when she was found until much later in the evening before he finally made his arrival to pronounce her dead........

Yep- that one.

 

[JMO8778]

I can believe he might have been too slack to clean the clippers in between trimmings,but failing to take an internal body temp. to help establish TOD just waves red flags everywhere to me.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Rationally, statistically, not even scientifically, if you believe hand writing analysis is a science, then can that one misspelling be represenative of guilt or innocence? That's a huge jump? IMO

Yes it can. One simple little thing, is all it takes.

Ask the investigators on Pan Am flight 103 if one little thing can be representative of guilt or innocence.

BTW, can't take all the credit. The misspelling was noted on other not-quite-so-slanted forums.