Could Patsy's Cocktails Have Played A Part In Her Rage Attack?

[Ames]

Not sure why you can't see the OBVIOUS, but hey. Sure the nature of sexual assault was strange b/c it wasn't really ASSAULT! ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? ANY SEX PREDATOR THAT WOULD HAVE 'GOT' WITH JB WOULD HAVE DONE WAY MORE DAMAGE WAY MORE SEXUAL ASSAULT AND THEY WOULD NOT HAVE DRESSED HER AFTER.

Exactly!

 

[BBB167893]

not sure why you can't see the obvious, but hey. Sure the nature of sexual assault was strange b/c it wasn't really assault! Are you kidding me??? Any sex predator that would have 'got' with jb would have done way more damage way more sexual assault and they would not have dressed her after.

exactly!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

RDI doesn't handle the 'beheading' thing at all. RDI doesn't handle the 'Victory' expression either. These are over and above what would be needed for a coverup. PR didn't need to write beheading OR victory OR fat cat OR SBTC to stage a kidnap for ransom.

According to RDI, PR was creating a kidnap for ransom plot. Maybe RDI can tell where child beheading, fat cats, victory, or SBTC, or even a sexual assault fit in a kidnap for ransom plot.

 

[BBB167893]

RDI doesn't handle the 'beheading' thing at all.

I've handled it several times: the writer clearly had no idea what they were doing and were putting in anything that sounded good. Islamic terror is always a hot ticket.

RDI doesn't handle the 'Victory' expression either.

Sure we have: PR's religious background. Or do I have to remind you of the multiple use of the word "victory" in their statements, including one from her sister Pam at the memorial service: "She got her victory." PR had embraced a very charismatic form of evangelical Christianity in the wake of her illness. These people always talk about the "victory at the end of days," in the "great battle of Armageddon." Rent "Jesus Camp" if you want to see it for yourself.

These are over and above what would be needed for a coverup.

Holdon, that's PRECISELY why PR is the most likely writer! Its fits her over-the-top personality!

Heck, don't take my word for it. That's what the chief prosecutor said. Here, I'll quote him to you:

"everything else was staged – and the staging was overdone. Patsy is a very theatrical person and it was a very theatrical production."

His words, not mine.

PR didn't need to write beheading OR victory OR fat cat OR SBTC to stage a kidnap for ransom.

That's easy to say. Who knows what she thought she "had" to do at the time? What did she know about kidnappings, anyway?

According to RDI, PR was creating a kidnap for ransom plot.

No, according to THIS RDI (and me alone, far as I know), she was creating a kidnapping plot and she needed a ransom note to create a criminal. Now, that's not ME, saying that, Holdon. That's what the CASKU agents said. She just didn't know what a real ransom note sounded like, so she took a little of everything, like a Chinese menu. (Not just me saying THAT, either.)

Maybe RDI can tell where child beheading, fat cats, victory, or SBTC, or even a sexual assault fit in a kidnap for ransom plot.

I'm certainly willing to give it a shot!

It fits in with a general ignorance of how real criminals operate.
More specifically, those items you mention conjur up images of Islamic terrorists, pedophile killers and sundry other Things The Media Tells Us To Be Afraid Of. In short, the sexual semi-assault (YOUR words) and the beheading seem to be attempts to play on popular fears.
The "victory" was most likely a slip-up by someone who didn't know to say "when."
And "fat cat" was a nickname the Paughs, PR's parents and siblings, used to refer to John Ramsey. It's not hard (for me, anyway) to imagine the desperate writer trying to think of something to call JR to sound like an insult and harkening back to it.

Now, maybe you can "handle" what Gingbreade has to say?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I'm certainly willing to give it a shot!

It fits in with a general ignorance of how real criminals operate.
More specifically, those items you mention conjur up images of Islamic terrorists, pedophile killers and sundry other Things The Media Tells Us To Be Afraid Of. In short, the sexual semi-assault (YOUR words) and the beheading seem to be attempts to play on popular fears.
The "victory" was most likely a slip-up by someone who didn't know to say "when."
And "fat cat" was a nickname the Paughs, PR's parents and siblings, used to refer to John Ramsey. It's not hard (for me, anyway) to imagine the desperate writer trying to think of something to call JR to sound like an insult and harkening back to it.

Now, maybe you can "handle" what Gingbreade has to say?

'Giving it a shot' is exactly right. It is, however, a shot in the dark.

Maybe you and Gingbreade should team up, and come up with a reason why PR needed to stage a sexual assault after having staged a kidnap for ransom. I can't wait to see the convoluted explanation, given you lack any idea of what the real motives were.

In other words, if the truth is ever known, and the motives clarified, then maybe all these confusing, bizarre pieces wont seem like a hodgepodge of 'things to be afraid of' that someone pulled out of their hat. Maybe we're just not going to know the 'what' and 'why' until after we know the 'who.'

 

[BBB167893]

'Giving it a shot' is exactly right. It is, however, a shot in the dark.

Don't you wish.

Maybe you and Gingbreade should team up, and come up with a reason why PR needed to stage a sexual assault after having staged a kidnap for ransom.

On the first account, as nice an idea as it is, I'm a team of one.

On the second account, I can't come up with a reason for something I don't think happened. I believe you have it exactly the other way around! (Which might explain a few things.)

I can't wait to see the convoluted explanation, given you lack any idea of what the real motives were.

I believe I stated the motives in the rest of my response.

In other words, if the truth is ever known, and the motives clarified, then maybe all these confusing, bizarre pieces wont seem like a hodgepodge of 'things to be afraid of' that someone pulled out of their hat. Maybe we're just not going to know the 'what' and 'why' until after we know the 'who.'

Maybe. But I'm not holding my breath.

 

[DeeDee249]

The reason for staging a sexual assault after staging a kidnapping has been discussed here so many times, I can't believe its still being brought up. The staged sexual assault was done to cover up previous sexual molestation by someone with regular, private access to JBR. This also would include any molestation that may have taken place that night. So I think we can rule out Karr, SFF, and random bitter Access Graphics employees right off the bat.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

The reason for staging a sexual assault after staging a kidnapping has been discussed here so many times, I can't believe its still being brought up. The staged sexual assault was done to cover up previous sexual molestation by someone with regular, private access to JBR. This also would include any molestation that may have taken place that night. So I think we can rule out Karr, SFF, and random bitter Access Graphics employees right off the bat.

Your post comes off like its all together when it aint.

If it was a staged sexual assault, why wouldn't they sexually assault her in a realistic way? Many here dont even believe it was a real sexual assault, and here you are calling it one, albiet staged. And why then stage a kidnap for ransom?

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

I believe I stated the motives in the rest of my response.

My original post: "I can't wait to see the convoluted explanation, given you lack any idea of what the real motives were".

No offense, but I was referring to the REAL motives, not what you believe the motives were.

To rephrase: When we know who, then we may discover what the REAL motives were behind all these bizarre details of why is this and what is that.

 

[BBB167893]

My original post: "I can't wait to see the convoluted explanation, given you lack any idea of what the real motives were".

No offense, but I was referring to the REAL motives, not what you believe the motives were.

You won't even CONSIDER that I might be right!

To rephrase: When we know who, then we may discover what the REAL motives were behind all these bizarre details of why is this and what is that.

And as I said, I'm not holding my breath.

If it was a staged sexual assault, why wouldn't they sexually assault her in a realistic way?

We've been over that, again and again.

Many here dont even believe it was a real sexual assault,

With good reason, might I add.

and here you are calling it one, albiet staged.

Wrong! It's either real or it's staged. Can't be both. That's the whole point. It's either real or it isn't.

And why then stage a kidnap for ransom?

We've been over that, too.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

We've been over that, too.

Really it was a rhetorical question.

Why would anyone stage a kidnap for ransom when they needed to explain existing injuries. Why not stage a convincing sexual assault?

RDI has no real answer for that.

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

You won't even CONSIDER that I might be right!

Nope. Not even for a second.

 

[BBB167893]

Really it was a rhetorical question.

I figured. But if there's one thing I've learned the hard way in this case is there aren't any rhetorical questions!

Why would anyone stage a kidnap for ransom when they needed to explain existing injuries. Why not stage a convincing sexual assault?

RDI has no real answer for that.

Try me.

Nope. Not even for a second.

Then I'll ask the same question JMO asked: "why bother?"

 

[GingBreade]

Really it was a rhetorical question.

Why would anyone stage a kidnap for ransom when they needed to explain existing injuries. Why not stage a convincing sexual assault?

RDI has no real answer for that.

Stage a convincing sexual assault? Okay just how would you do it if you had to stage it??

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Stage a convincing sexual assault? Okay just how would you do it if you had to stage it??

I certainly would never consider handwriting anything, let alone 1500 or so words. Thats insane. I wouldn't consider that even for a split second.

Would you?

Stop and think about it. Just how stupid is that?

Its laughable, IMO, that anyone would believe an occupant of the house would actually sit down and handwrite a 2 1/2 page letter, with practice notes, that is going to be associated with a capital crime. That is THE most absurd thinking I've ever seen in any case investigation. The 'throwing everything in but the kitchen sink' idea just adds to the absurdity.

 

[BBB167893]

I certainly would never consider handwriting anything, let alone 1500 or so words. Thats insane. I wouldn't consider that even for a split second.

It's nice to know you'd be so clear-headed in a life-or-death crisis.

Would you?

Depends on what I was trying to accomplish and how much time I had to do it.

Stop and think about it.

I have. Many, many times.

Just how stupid is that?

As I've said before, it's not a question of stupid or smart.

Its laughable, IMO, that anyone would believe an occupant of the house would actually sit down and handwrite a 2 1/2 page letter, with practice notes, that is going to be associated with a capital crime. That is THE most absurd thinking I've ever seen in any case investigation.

Tell that to the guys from CASKU, as in the people who do this for a living:

The only reason to write the note or to leave it behind was to provide a false motive for the crime. (PMPT, page 307)

The experts thought that the ransom note was written by someone intelligent but not criminally sophisticated. (PMPT, page 494)

They believed the note was written in the home, after the murder, and indicated panic. The note was created to misdirect law enforcement and focus attention elsewhere and was a cathartic act that allowed the offender to "undo" the crime in one's own mind. (ITRMI, pages 242-243)

The 'throwing everything in but the kitchen sink' idea just adds to the absurdity.

For the 1000th time, it's the absurdity of the note that SHOWS the writer was throwing in everything they could think of in the FIRST PLACE!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Tell that to the guys from CASKU, as in the people who do this for a living:

You're post seems to present the illusion that the feds are in agreement with your 'opnion' that PR wrote the note. As I recall, the last remark made by a fed was "no evidence to suggest PR executed any of the questioned material"


Do you have your facts straight on who thinks what?

The only reason to write the note or to leave it behind was to provide a false motive for the crime. (PMPT, page 307)

The only reason to write the note or to leave it behind was to provide... a bunch of handwriting samples and a reason to invite the FBI over. Without the kidnap scenario, the FBI wouldn't have been there.

Think about that. Its like you've robbed a liquor store, and on the way out you take off your ski mask and smile at the camera. GET SERIOUS!

 

[BBB167893]

You're post seems to present the illusion that the feds are in agreement with your 'opnion' that PR wrote the note.

I didn't say that. But what I will say is that just about all of them agreed that the writer was:

-female
-From the South
-College educated
-35-45 years old.

Sound like anyone we know?

As I recall, the last remark made by a fed was "no evidence to suggest PR executed any of the questioned material"

Would the former director of the INS' QDE division count as a fed?

Do you have your facts straight on who thinks what?

And ironic question if ever I've heard one.

The only reason to write the note or to leave it behind was to provide... a bunch of handwriting samples and a reason to invite the FBI over. Without the kidnap scenario, the FBI wouldn't have been there.

And just how clearly do you suppose the perp was thinking? Actually, that's only one of several things that come into my head right now.

Think about that. Its like you've robbed a liquor store, and on the way out you take off your ski mask and smile at the camera.

Some people can't help themselves. Need I remind you of what Kane said?

GET SERIOUS!

I AM serious, damn it!

 

[Holdontoyourhat]

Gee, well, I took off my ski mask because... I wasn't thinking straight. Wait, I know, I wanted to throw off LE. Seeing my face will confuse them.

 

[BBB167893]

Gee, well, I took off my ski mask because... I wasn't thinking straight. Wait, I know, I wanted to throw off LE. Seeing my face will confuse them.

"I'll just use my left hand and change my writing afterwards. No one would ever suspect a pageant queen!"