Couple who adopted 12 children shot to death #2

[Gastrolith]

I am new to the forum. Very interesting what has been discovered. I am an attorney so may be able to provide answers to general legal questions.

 

[elainebenice]

Ok, obviously no one read any of my posts yesterday about the Billing's beliefs about government and these tremendously strange and unusual documents that they executed and filed with the court. :frown:

I posted a link in the 1st thread that is now closed about these beliefs that everyone should check out to get a better idea of these beliefs concerning government. As an attorney, I knew the second I read the first paragraph of the Trademark/Copyright document that this was most likely a HUGE clue in the case and after I did some research on these beliefs I became almost convinced it was in some way connected. I cannot stress enough how unusual these documents are in language and function - THESE ARE NOT NORMAL. I don't know who originally came up with this crap of a theory (and yes, that's what it is) or the language used in the documents and propaganda, but it is clear this person's language is basically boilerplate for everyone who subscribes to this theory. This can easily be seen by surfing a few of these websites b/c they all basically repeat the same things VERBATIM and this is the same language used by the Billings in the documents they filed.....VERBATIM.

As for the legal effect of these trademark/copyright documents, they basically have none and are routinely thrown out of court when presented for some legal purpose. The most interesting aspect of this case to me is the fact that the Billings actually "perfected" security interests...I can't and have no desire to go into the insane details of security interests tonight, but you can find out more here - [ame]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Security_interest[/ame]

The UCC dictates the EXACT steps a creditor must take in order to "perfect" any security interest they may hold in another person's property and part of this process can be seen in the documents involving the Billings and Yvonne Bledsoe and Ann Simmons. These steps become very important to a creditor when one of their debtors files bankruptcy b/c at that point the court establishes an order of priority in regards to all creditors. At the top of the list are secured creditors and below them are unsecured creditors (who usually get nothing at all from a bankrupt debtor). The Billings obviously knew the law governing security interests and the UCC as well as the importance of perfecting their security interests in collateral through filing the necessary documents with the court. This also indicates to me that they fully intended to take their proper place in the line of creditors should a debtor file bankruptcy and collect everything they could from the debtor. Now, this process is perfectly normal and expected in purchase loans and similar transactions, such as a car loan or a mortgage, BUT in a normal transaction you don't find some of the language that is seen in the security interests held by the Billings. The language in these documents is not only strange - the silver coins or 5X the amt in Fed Reserve Notes, it is so broad and far reaching that it would almost always be thrown out by a judge if a debtor contested its validity. I am confident of this in theory and in actual practice. I have discussed these documents with several other attorneys, one with specific experience with similar documents, and ALL agreed these don't stand a chance of being upheld as valid security interests by a bankruptcy judge if a debtor was to challenge the validity. The main reason for this is the fact that the description of collateral in these financing statements are completely OFF THE WALL and against public policy because they basically establish a unilateral lien against everything the debtor owns or may EVER own. A security interest "grants the holder a right to take a remedial action with respect to the property, upon occurrence of certain events, such as the non-payment of a loan." The Billings security interests don't grant them a right to take remedial action upon certain actions by the debtors, they basically skip this step and draft the documents with the assumption that certain events have already occurred on the debtors behalf, therefore they have a right to proceed with the outlined remedial actions. This is improper in basically every way possible.

Sorry, didn't mean to get carried away with that, but I think its important to understand how security interests function if you are going to understand the potential impact of the documents that are being discussed in this case.

 

[daisy7]

i searched under Paul Robinson and his page came up - it could be grasping but the locations all make sense. Honestly, after looking at friends and friends of friends - his status was changed that his friends were locked up on the day they were takin into custody if I am not mistaken - but maybe my brain is sooo fried! In any case this whole scenario/crime is a stretch is what this case is, so I am willing to throw it out there. It's okay if you don't agree, we are all allowed different opinions I am always willing and open to change my angle at any time -- heck I see 10 different ones at the moment!

Can you explain? TIA:blowkiss:

 

[suepersleuth]

Wosers!!! Smoking gun here!!

If this is the case and it is still says it is open - it could not shut because the billings have the lien against her for the 50 millions - it is starting to sound like they are all in on it together!! Must be!!!!!! HINKY METER ALERT!!

Holy Hell! Did ya'll catch the numbers five and six defendents? They are listed as:
5. John Doe
6. Jane Doe

so....

does this mean that:
5. John Doe is Byrd Billings
6. Jane Doe is Melanie Billings

Does this represent an example of what copyrighting your name and becoming sovereign does for you in a court of law?
Also note that the Doe's could not be served!

FA-Reaky!

 

[NSC]

I don't know where the article link is. But someone posted earlier that the Billing's helped people who's homes were going into foreclosure. I think they were only trying to do good things. I think the maritime lien was an attempt to save LB's home.

I think they did do this from reading documents. For one, it looks like they tried to help their "friends" and business associates the Phillips - only later to file a judgement against them --


(LIGHTBULB) unless they are in on it tooo! Ding dang, I think they very well could be!!!!

Honestly, I think we are going in the right directions!!!

 

[FromFL]

quick question...has any one found a MARRIAGE LICENSE for the Melanie and Byrd Billings?

I know I could not at all at the Escambia County Clerk's website the other day.

I'm going through so much stuff on the Maritime issue, but I just found some a link http://sedm.org/ItemInfo/Ebooks/SovChristianMarriage/SovChristianMarriage.htm that goes into how to NOT get a state-issued marriage license and be married.

From what I've also read to be a Sovereign person you canNOT accept any state or federal assistance, or accept their 'licenses' as then you are back into a 'contract' with the issuing government agency.

 

[NSC]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread449428/pg1
Now this is intersting and in laymens terms:

This is what I know in a nutshell. If we can keep the thread going I will try to dig up as much on this as I can in the days ahead.

When we are born, our mothers and fathers name us and create in that process a fictional entity for us.

Much like if you want to go into business for yourself, with no taxable employees and go down to your city hall, and state and file a DBA...Doing Business As...Joe the Plumber

Now Joe has a middle and last name of course, but with his DBA he can legally accept and cash and deposit checks and legally enforce and be bound by contracts that say Joe the Plumber.

He can do this because Joe the Plumber is a legally established fictional entity contracted into law, to be recognized under law, as an entity that can create contracts of it's own.

When your parents name you at birth and you slide down your mother's birth canal, splashign away, after living months in water, that comes splashing out with you, you are sailing along, in fact under International Laws of the Sea, to a destination which is a for a ship, which is usually a dock, and in fact you are headed to dock, overseen by the Doctor, who helps you land safely there under the Laws of the Sea. The oldest form of law, recognized by treaty and contract by every nation, Maritime Law.

You have just docked at a Nation, and you require a Bill of Laden which is your Birth Certificate the Doctor fills out which goes to your State's department of vital statistics and Department of Commerce, in the State you were docked at when you arrived, and they forward a copy of that Bill of Laden to the Nation that the state is Incorporated in and all states in the United States are incorporated as part of the parent Corporation, the United States of America, which is in fact a Corporation itself, who registers your Bill of Laden, your Birth Certificate with the Department of Commerce. You are property, your Bill of Laden rendered by your Doctor says so. You are property of your state, and property of the parent corporation the United States of America as well. The United States of America is a corporation that is financially insolvent and has been since the day it was incoroprated along with all the states at the same time, back in the 1930's when the United States was forced to declare bankruptcy after defaulting on it's loans from the Bank of England for the cost of fighting World War I.

To ensure a continued line of credit, in our goldless nation, who must rely on flat fiat paper currency which has no value but is simply an instrument of debt, our Federal Reserve must be given permission to issue that currency which each piece of is an isntrument of debt, that ultimately is being financed by the Bank of England.

Unpopular because of current myth, the United States of America was never a free nation, but if one reads the peace treaties signed after the Revolutionary War carefully you will see that they read like an incorporation of the United States under England, which is a corporation itself.

Your Bill of Laden, your Birth Certificate, becomes collatoral to the Bank of England against our debt, and to increase our debt by being able to issue more flat paper currency that is an instrument of debt, that through their honoring by the Bank of England that backs them, they can be traded and bartered with value.

Our future labor, which is taxable, generates the income to pay and manage this debt. You are the property that ensures that the loans already given, and are kept being made, will be repaid.

You are a slave, under the corporation, and you labor to generate it wealth through the taxes you pay to the Internal Revenue Service which is a seperate entity not in the United States Corporation, but in fact incorporated as a Debt Collection Agency, by the London Banking Cartels that manage and administer our debt. Just like the Federal Reserve is not under the control of the United States Corporation, but is like wise a Corporation owned by the London Banking Cartels to provide the credit instruments we run our commerce on.

In fact the United States of America is such a debt riddled corporation that it is actually incorporated as a Not For Profit Religious Corporation in the State of Deleware, where many foriegn entities register and incorporate their American Corporations which we are one of for that states prized secrecy laws governing incorporation.

The Federal Reserve is also registered as a Not for Profit Relgious Corporation too, because it simply creates instruments of dept.

The Internal Revenue Service is registered as a For Profit Corporation because as the collection agency on our debt, that does generate a profit.

The foreign owned Federal Reserve, and the foreign owned IRS were the first parts of our government to be incoprorated right after the Federal Reserve Act in 1914.

This was when we were starting to go bankrupt.

The Deparments of Health Education and Welfare, the Department of Commerce, and the Social Security Administration are all for profit Corporations.

So you can understand just how deeply it goes, the Central Intelligence Agency is also a for Profit Corporation.

Maritime Law, and Contract Law are the two only valid systems of law recognized the world over, and it is by Maritime Law, and Contract Law that we are in fact governed, because when the United States delcared Bankruptcy, under Contractual Law, what now binds us is the Contract detailing the Bankruptcy under Contract Law which supercedes Constitutional Law, which is why our politicians treat it like it does not exist, because in fact under our Bankruptcy, we are not entitled to enforce it, if it interferes or impedes the repaying of our Debt.

Now, most of you will say, that is just hogwash where is your proof, the proof is pretty much all around you, but seek and ye shall find. You will find this truth easier to find than you will the explanations you seek for why the Constitution is such a disregarded document and our nation sometimes seems to provide Military and Financial support to other Corporations like Israel without any real rhyme or reason.

Debt have to be paid under Contractual Law how ever the Contract Calls for them, or a Bankrupt entity can be liquidated.

What this thread is about is how to understand the system of Contract Law, and that we are ruled under it, because we have each unwittingly become a fictional Contractual Entity under it through our Bills of Laden and Birth Certificates.

There are ways that we can purchase and secure our freedom from this slavery, by declaring ourselves Sovereign and Ensuring our Own Debts and Liabilities through the same Contractual Principals that in fact is the Law that binds us and our Government, by creating a Sovereign Entity for ourselves, and abonding the fictitious entity created for us at birth because we were PIRATED and DOCKED here.

Through purchasing appropriate Bonds and Securities through the Government and Banks, we can each post these Bonds with Offers of Contract to the various states, and Federal corporations, declaring our immunity, and posting Bonds to cover any damages or liabilities our use of the infrastructure and conducting our own untaxable commerce might create.

There is a lot to that process, it takes some time and some money, but Bonds are typically purchased at 10% of their face value, and the rest only has to be paid, if the Bond becomes an instrument of debt for liabilities you have occured during the course of your Sovereignty that causes a loss of or damage to other Sovereign or Incorporated Entities governed by contractual law.

Now for those of you who don't quite understand this, there is on reason and one reason only the goverment paid the AIG bonuses.

They were in the contract!

 

[Gastrolith]

I agree with the other attorney that these documents are crap. Anything can be filed with the clerk. I have had several dealings with these "Soverign Born Citizens" and they are very peculiar and possess a complete misunderstanding of the legal system.

 

[mikeysmommom]

No, I no longer think we are in mortgage fraud. This is kinda like the mother of schemes to free yourself of the nation and no longer have to pay taxes. It has all been set up precisely - The copyrighting of names, maritime leins, Leins -- all the while running world co which is a legit business.

Ever wonder why his younger daughter and wife are the main principles on all the companies??? :crazy:

I thought it was because he was so much older then his wife so to save inheritance taxes :crazy:

 

[SuziQ]

I think they did do this from reading documents. For one, it looks like they tried to help their "friends" and business associates the Phillips - only later to file a judgement against them --


(LIGHTBULB) unless they are in on it tooo! Ding dang, I think they very well could be!!!!

Honestly, I think we are going in the right directions!!!

The way I'm seeing it is some of the liens or judgements, particularly the admirality liens were an attempt by the Billings to thwart other creditors from coming after their friends, ei; they were helping or trying to help LB and others by doing this.

 

[spartanmom]

Holy Hell! Did ya'll catch the numbers five and six defendents? They are listed as:
5. John Doe
6. Jane Doe

so....

does this mean that:
5. John Doe is Byrd Billings
6. Jane Doe is Melanie Billings

Does this represent an example of what copyrighting your name and becoming sovereign does for you in a court of law?
Also note that the Doe's could not be served!

FA-Reaky!

ohhhh, I just read the thingy on craigslist about national american???.....anyway, if you go on down in the article it talks about signing papers like this
By: John Doe.....then it gives and explanation as to why to do this.

check it out that may be a connection and why John Doe is on the paper

also, it says something about the person not being able to be served the paper without a contract.....I don't know, I am all confused....sorry!!!

just check out the craigs list thing,,,,,sorry

 

[mikeysmommom]

quick question...has any one found a MARRIAGE LICENSE for the Melanie and Byrd Billings?

I know I could not at all at the Escambia County Clerk's website the other day.

I'm going through so much stuff on the Maritime issue, but I just found some a link http://sedm.org/ItemInfo/Ebooks/SovChristianMarriage/SovChristianMarriage.htm that goes into how to NOT get a state-issued marriage license and be married.

From what I've also read to be a Sovereign person you canNOT accept any state or federal assistance, or accept their 'licenses' as then you are back into a 'contract' with the issuing government agency.

In NJ you need a licenses for most businesses ,used cars I know it for a fact.How was he able to run an unlicensed car lot?

 

[SuziQ]

I don't think the Billing's were succesful and may have given that tactic up after trying it a few times. But I have to wonder if they screwed over and pissed off any creditors in the process?

 

[spartanmom]

I hope this is okay to do, if not I am truly sorry mods>
this is the part i am talking about

http://raleigh.craigslist.org/pol/1226855499.html

y: John-Robert: Doe (the "By:" means that a real human being signed it and not a fiction)

and also don't forget the date. Return it to the District Attorney within 72 hours and it should be taken care of. So basically you are restricting the DA's power to respond to you because he can only respond under the penalties of perjury. Folks...that will never ever happen because they are Fiction and they would get fired for claiming to be non-fictitious...will never happen, ok? The only thing the DA can do is call you at your house and try to get you into a contract on the phone. So he will try to ask you weird questions like "Did you DRIVE to court today?" If you admit to DRIVE, then you entered their contract. Remember, you have the right to TRAVEL but not to DRIVE without a Driver's license. Driving is a privilage and not a right. So he will try to get you into a contract on the phone and this is what I always say and only say, regardless of what he asks me: "I do not recognize you...if you want something, then write me a letter." I say this over and over again untill he hangs up.

Now...if the Court disregards your Rejection (which can happen because they think they have SOOO MUCH POWER, which is only fictional Power), then you will have to appear. Just tell them that you are not a Corporation, Person and 14th Amendment Citizen. Also DO NOT PLEA. So it should bassically go down like this:

Your NAME is called...so walk up to the Chambers.
They will say the "Charge" and ask you how do you plead?

This is what I do:

For the Record Judge, I wanted to tell the court that I am not a Person. I am not a Corporation and I am not a 14th Amendment Citizen. I am not here today to enter a plea. I am here to challenge Subject Matter Jurisdiction and I would like to know if you have a "CLAIM" against me? ( Judge should say no because Claims are from real Human beings to another and "CHARGES" are from Fictions to Fictions). Then I ask: For the Record Judge, Do you know anybody that has a CLAIM against me? (Again Answer should be no). For the Record Judge, since nobody has a CLAIM against me, then my Public Business here is finished and I wish you a nice day. Then I would walk out of the Court room by this time and seize the moment. You have never ever heard so much silence in a court room before, trust me. They DO NOT have Jurisdiction unless you give it to them...OK?
You see...all crimes are Commercial, even Murder. That is why they have a "CHARGE" and they are "CHARGING" you, which is a Commercial word and all Commercial Crimes have a monetary debt attached to them, that is why they have a Clerk outside to collect Money. What they do not have is a CLAIM...only a real Human can have that and the "State" is not Human...just a fiction.

this is the article i was talking about

 

[FromFL]

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread449428/pg1
Now this is intersting and in laymens terms:

I'm having issues quoting nicely right now...but in your quote from the above it states the "DBA" ....I -saw- that in ....(*thinking*) THE ADMIRALTY LIEN that specified the $50M -- in one space we couldn't tell if it said "DEA" or "DBA" -- I think that's it!

I'm trying to go back to the Escambia County Clerk website right now...

 

[Reannan]

Thank you elainebenice and gastrolith for your valuable input. Those documents were so odd, that I have gone half insane trying to figure WTF they mean!!! I also agree that these are important issues in terms of WHY this murder happened. So sad..... so frustrating!!!!

 

[Gastrolith]

Under the tax code a person has a unified tax credit that can be used to reduce the amount of taxes owed at death to the Federal government. I can't remember how much the credit is since I took my estate tax course years ago. Needless to say, it is a very high dollar amount. Plus, sovereign born citizens do not accept the jursidiction of the Federal government so they would probably not pay any death taxes due to their beliefs.

 

[Jenmrk]

I'm having issues quoting nicely right now...but in your quote from the above it states the "DBA" ....I -saw- that in ....(*thinking*) THE ADMIRALTY LIEN that specified the $50M -- in one space we couldn't tell if it said "DEA" or "DBA" -- I think that's it!

I'm trying to go back to the Escambia County Clerk website right now...

DBA- Doing Business As

 

[Gastrolith]

DBA is doing business as.

 

[Jenmrk]

I have no read all of the documents but can you be sovereign and have a business as DBA then apply for a business license under the DBA?