Court Appearances and Canadian Legal Terms

[Alethea Dice]

Could be, but it was a formality that derailed a judicial pre-trial scheduled two months earlier.

I do tend to think -- based on DP's comments -- if there were problems, they've been solved and it will be the same legal team come November.

Meh, what's two months when you're looking at two years and longer to go to trial. It's no bigger of a delay than the summer recess that happens every year.

I agree, I'm expecting the same legal team in November too.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

I think it is difficult to consider something a hard news report if it is so ambiguous that many people interpret it's meaning differently, although, personally, I found it to mean what it said, that there was a formality that had yet to be completed. I also imagine that it was the author's own input to say that WM was murdered, and that it was not a direct quote from DP, because, well, that would just be a little too unbelievable to me, personally. I doubt DP said anything about legal aid either, I imagine that was creative licence on the author's part.

The article reads to me as if the reporter asked DP if the delay was due to financial reasons. Just by the way his quoted comment reads...

"It has nothing to do with finances," says Paradkar. "It's really because of the direct indictment."

I can't see DP otherwise commenting on DP's personal finances.

But she's not going to take his comment at face value because, even if he did have financial problems, he would be able to apply for legal aid.

JMO

 

[andreww]

How could he have financial problems? Didn't he just unload the farm and the distillery district condo? I think DM is good for cash right now.


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[MsSherlock]

How could he have financial problems? Didn't he just unload the farm and the distillery district condo? I think DM is good for cash right now.


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andreww, IMO, there could be a big difference between the amount of cash that DM has and the amount that's available to him. DM's assets, specifically those he inherited from WM, may be frozen pending the outcome of WM's murder trial. If the hangar was really a chop shop, maybe some assets are frozen under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act. Maybe there's something for Victims of Crimes? IMHO, DM is in an interesting position. He was sole heir of someone who he allegedly murdered. Was the Distillery Condo purchased with inherited money? Where properties purchased by a cheque written on the Company Line of Credit? JMHO, I have little doubt that WM had a sizable estate, but I do have many questions about exactly how wealthy DM really is right now. MOO

 

[Juballee]

To me it is humourous and curious how direct quotes such as:

"I am not on the record yet in Superior Court," Paradkar says, "but it's in the works right now."

And

"It has nothing to do with finances," says Paradkar. "It's really because of the direct indictment."

Can lead to so much discussion espousing the contrary.


(http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4869422-bosma-murder-trial-set-for-fall-2015/)

 

[Tamarind]

To me it is humourous and curious how direct quotes such as:

"I am not on the record yet in Superior Court," Paradkar says, "but it's in the works right now."

And

"It has nothing to do with finances," says Paradkar. "It's really because of the direct indictment."

Can lead to so much discussion espousing the contrary.


(http://www.thespec.com/news-story/4869422-bosma-murder-trial-set-for-fall-2015/)

I would interpret the meanings to be simply that Paradkar is not on the record in Superior Court yet, as it has yet to go to Superior court
And that because of it going directly to Superior Court without a Pre Trial (that is the case isn't it?) it is just a matter of signing and assigning.

 

[andreww]

andreww, IMO, there could be a big difference between the amount of cash that DM has and the amount that's available to him. DM's assets, specifically those he inherited from WM, may be frozen pending the outcome of WM's murder trial. If the hangar was really a chop shop, maybe some assets are frozen under the Proceeds of Crime and Terrorist Financing Act. Maybe there's something for Victims of Crimes? IMHO, DM is in an interesting position. He was sole heir of someone who he allegedly murdered. Was the Distillery Condo purchased with inherited money? Where properties purchased by a cheque written on the Company Line of Credit? JMHO, I have little doubt that WM had a sizable estate, but I do have many questions about exactly how wealthy DM really is right now. MOO

Certainly the proceeds from the sale of the farm would be untouchable because it's purchase preceded any of
The crime he is charged with.


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[Sillybilly]

Certainly the proceeds from the sale of the farm would be untouchable because it's purchase preceded any of
The crime he is charged with.


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IF it was to be determined by a court that assets (regardless of when they were acquired) were dispensed with to potentially avoid liability in a civil suit, sale proceeds can be frozen and transactions reversed. I don't have links right now, but there was a lot of discussion about this in the Russ Williams thread.

 

[Tamarind]

IF it was to be determined by a court that assets (regardless of when they were acquired) were dispensed with to potentially avoid liability in a civil suit, sale proceeds can be frozen and transactions reversed. I don't have links right now, but there was a lot of discussion about this in the Russ Williams thread.

Wouldn't that be only if the proceeds whereabouts were known?

 

[Alethea Dice]

IF it was to be determined by a court that assets (regardless of when they were acquired) were dispensed with to potentially avoid liability in a civil suit, sale proceeds can be frozen and transactions reversed. I don't have links right now, but there was a lot of discussion about this in the Russ Williams thread.

I don't really think this is much of an issue, at least not yet and from what we know. It doesn't appear that the courts had frozen the assets at the time or the properties would not have even been able to have been transferred and sold. (I think it's called a Mareva injunction? Not sure.) I find it hard to believe that a court would issue that injunction unless a civil suit had already been filed. If that's happened, we don't know about it yet. Also, it's my understanding that, even when assets are frozen, the courts allow the defendent to use some of the assets for living expenses and for legal expenses to defend himself.

In the Russell Williams case, I believe there were already civil suits filed. I see that two of them have been settled out of court. It will be interesting to see what happens with the third one.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/ex-colonel-russell-williams-settles-out-of-court-with-numerous-victims/

JMHO

 

[Sillybilly]

I find it hard to believe that a court would issue that injunction unless a civil suit had already been filed. ...

In the Russell Williams case, I believe there were already civil suits filed. I see that two of them have been settled out of court. It will be interesting to see what happens with the third one.

http://www.macleans.ca/news/canada/ex-colonel-russell-williams-settles-out-of-court-with-numerous-victims/

JMHO

Sorry I wasn’t clear Alethea. I didn’t mean prior to a civil suit .. only in the event and at the time if a civil suit was filed, not as a blanket preventative measure just because he was arrested. Williams was arrested in Feb 2010 and transferred the Ottawa townhouse to MH 6 weeks later. Assets were frozen some time later after civil suit were filed. Due to the private settlements, we’ll probably never know the outcome of those cases.

 

[swedie]

November 14, 2014

Millard and the Crown have agreed to an in-chambers judicial pre-trial December 19, but it has to be confirmed with one of Smich’s lawyers. Millard and Smich will both be back November 19 to try and firm up that date.

Millard also has a new attorney for the Laura Babcock and Wayne Millard murder charges. He is now being represented by Ravin Pillay, who has replaced Deepak Paradkar on those two cases. Pillay and Paradkar have been working together since early on and still are, but I wasn’t aware of this official change until today.

http://www.annrbrocklehurst.com/201...k-smich-at-the-jane-and-finch-courthouse.html

 

[swedie]

Judicial Pre-trials in Criminal Court

A “Judicial Pre-trial” is very similar to a “Crown Resolution meeting”. The difference is that these discussions are before a judge in chambers or in closed court. The benefit of a judicial pre-trial is that the judge can help further narrow the issues and may be able to convince one party to resolve if their is an impasse in negotiations. Judicial pre-trials are also held as a mandatory step in many jurisdictions, particularly where the proceeding is expected to take up a significant period of Court time.

http://robichaudlaw.ca/ontario-criminal-court-procedures/judicial-pre-trials-in-criminal-court/

http://vladfedorchuk.com/ontario/32-judicial_pre_trial.html

 

[swedie]

Direct Indictments are most frequently used where:[5]

delays in the trial could deprive the accused of the right to be tried within a reasonable time;
the physical or psychological health of witnesses, their age, their safety or that of their relatives, and the difficulties involved in having witnesses testify more than once;
preservation of the integrity of the Crown’s evidence by, for example, protecting informants and ongoing police investigations;
a risk that evidence could be destroyed;
public safety reasons;
the need to avoid multiple proceedings caused, for example, by delays in making arrests;
the accused was wrongly discharged following the preliminary inquiry because of errors, or new evidence has been discovered;
a preliminary inquiry would be unreasonably costly, complex or long, or would be inappropriate because of the nature of the issues or the evidence;
the alleged offence is so controversial that it is in the public interest to try the case as quickly as possible; and
certain guidelines set out additional, broader criteria, such as the need to maintain public confidence in the administration of justice, the public interest, or the fact that the case is notorious or of particular importance to the public, that the direct indictment is the most appropriate procedure in the circumstances, or that there is a special need to expedite proceedings.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadi...ice/Informations_and_Indictments#cite_note-31

 

[Carli]

Direct Indictments are most frequently used where:[5]

delays in the trial could deprive the accused of the right to be tried within a reasonable time;
the physical or psychological health of witnesses, their age, their safety or that of their relatives, and the difficulties involved in having witnesses testify more than once;
preservation of the integrity of the Crown’s evidence by, for example, protecting informants and ongoing police investigations;
a risk that evidence could be destroyed;
public safety reasons;
the need to avoid multiple proceedings caused, for example, by delays in making arrests;
the accused was wrongly discharged following the preliminary inquiry because of errors, or new evidence has been discovered;
a preliminary inquiry would be unreasonably costly, complex or long, or would be inappropriate because of the nature of the issues or the evidence;
the alleged offence is so controversial that it is in the public interest to try the case as quickly as possible; and
certain guidelines set out additional, broader criteria, such as the need to maintain public confidence in the administration of justice, the public interest, or the fact that the case is notorious or of particular importance to the public, that the direct indictment is the most appropriate procedure in the circumstances, or that there is a special need to expedite proceedings.

http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Canadi...ice/Informations_and_Indictments#cite_note-31

BBM

Or, as I said, political. Essentially and intrinsically political. Public interest in this tragic but relatively run-of-the-mill murder was whipped into a frenzy from one end of the country to the other for weeks and months on end. Thus the case(s) came to tick the boxes in the AG's check list as per the quote. Quite amazing, really. MOO. IMHO. MOO. IMO.

I'm sure that sounds cold and insensitive but when compared, just as a for-instance, to the ho-hum investigation over a decade or more to the brutal murders of dozens of girls at "Piggie's Palace" or the investigations into numerous missing persons and suspected homicides in the RCMP files for New Brunswick alone, most of whom don't even rate a reference here, it's hard to understand why these victims are less worthy of public concern than the victims in this case. MOO. IMHO.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nb/prog_services/unsolved_crimes-crimes_non_resolus/index-eng.htm

Where were the local and national all points searches for the murderers of these persons? Where were the nationally televised memorials? Why are these victims marginalized, the loss of their lives and the failure to apprehend their murderers of no "particular importance to the public"? Just wondering. MOO. IMHO. etc

Sorry about the circular logic. What can I say. A rant is a rant. MOO.

 

[redheadedgal]

Or, as I said, political. Essentially and intrinsically political. Public interest in this tragic but relatively run-of-the-mill murder was whipped into a frenzy from one end of the country to the other for weeks and months on end. Thus the case(s) came to tick the boxes in the AG's check list as per the quote. Quite amazing, really. MOO. IMHO. MOO. IMO.

I'm sure that sounds cold and insensitive but when compared, just as a for-instance, to the ho-hum investigation over a decade or more to the brutal murders of dozens of girls at "Piggie's Palace" or the investigations into numerous missing persons and suspected homicides in the RCMP files for New Brunswick alone, most of whom don't even rate a reference here, it's hard to understand why these victims are less worthy of public concern than the victims in this case. MOO. IMHO.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nb/prog_services/unsolved_crimes-crimes_non_resolus/index-eng.htm

Where were the local and national all points searches for the murderers of these persons? Where were the nationally televised memorials? Why are these victims marginalized, the loss of their lives and the failure to apprehend their murderers of no "particular importance to the public"? Just wondering. MOO. IMHO. etc

Sorry about the circular logic. What can I say. A rant is a rant. MOO.

i have never seen such a continued determination to deflect attention off millard and / or attempt to re-direct WS threads with the mention of other cases / issues before. after so many instances one begins to think it's intentional...

 

[Sillybilly]

BBM

Or, as I said, political. Essentially and intrinsically political. Public interest in this tragic but relatively run-of-the-mill murder was whipped into a frenzy from one end of the country to the other for weeks and months on end. Thus the case(s) came to tick the boxes in the AG's check list as per the quote. Quite amazing, really. MOO. IMHO. MOO. IMO.

I'm sure that sounds cold and insensitive but when compared, just as a for-instance, to the ho-hum investigation over a decade or more to the brutal murders of dozens of girls at "Piggie's Palace" or the investigations into numerous missing persons and suspected homicides in the RCMP files for New Brunswick alone, most of whom don't even rate a reference here, it's hard to understand why these victims are less worthy of public concern than the victims in this case. MOO. IMHO.

http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/nb/prog_services/unsolved_crimes-crimes_non_resolus/index-eng.htm

Where were the local and national all points searches for the murderers of these persons? Where were the nationally televised memorials? Why are these victims marginalized, the loss of their lives and the failure to apprehend their murderers of no "particular importance to the public"? Just wondering. MOO. IMHO. etc

Sorry about the circular logic. What can I say. A rant is a rant. MOO.

What IS run-of-the-mill for thousands of non high-risk Canadians (husbands, wives, grandparents, etc) is the run-of-the-mill activity of advertising your truck (or salad spinner, or antique rocker, or used mattress, etc) in a buy/sell publication and ending up burned beyond recognition on some rich dude's farm as the result of an ordinary, every day activity. WRT the high-risk victims of Willy the Pig, that changed after LE throughout Canada learned their lesson from Vancouver's case. I guess you and some other more recent members didn't participate in the Pickton forum back in the day, the recent Legebokoff forum, or the Highway of Tears forum, the KARE / Edmonton Serial Killer forum, or any of the numerous individual threads related to New Brunswick victims:

https://www.google.ca/?gws_rd=ssl#q="Canada+Canada"+Brunswick+site:www.websleuths.com

(^^ only because you specified New Brunswick victims "most of whom don't even rate a reference here")

There are many, many cases here where high-risk, marginalized victims are discussed in a non-judgmental manner. There aren't many cases where folks come in to participate primarily in the defence of a rich accused murderer, almost to the exclusion of interest or participation in other cases.

ETA: Speaking of eastern provinces, the case of the boy who was held captive in chains in Nova Scotia springs to mind .. didn't see a lot of interest in the presumption of innocence for the 3 pedo creeps that were involved in that horrific case.

 

[Tamarind]

i have never seen such a continued determination to deflect attention off millard and / or attempt to re-direct WS threads with the mention of other cases / issues before. after so many instances one begins to think it's intentional...

With respect, there is also a lot of continued determination to convict DM ahead of time by many. Also it is noticeable how any post which tries to push for the presumption of innocence is met with such a strong contingent to deflect the mere thought into the compost heap. JMO . I actually was also beginning to think it was intentional, but maybe its just a strong push for each ones own interpretation of what justice means prior to a trial. JMO

Referencing other cases is quite normal IMO, we hear the TS case mentioned quite a lot here IMO. Someone posting that many cases of murder and missing persons never get into the newspaper or the TV, is stating a fact, so this case is quite a different case it seems, in many ways.

I also find it interesting that the case was somehow promoted headlong into the media, I think a few people feel that way JMO

 

[Arnie M]

With respect, there is also a lot of continued determination to convict DM ahead of time by many. Also it is noticeable how any post which tries to push for the presumption of innocence is met with such a strong contingent to deflect the mere thought into the compost heap. JMO . I actually was also beginning to think it was intentional, but maybe its just a strong push for each ones own interpretation of what justice means prior to a trial. JMO

Referencing other cases is quite normal IMO, we hear the TS case mentioned quite a lot here IMO. Someone posting that many cases of murder and missing persons never get into the newspaper or the TV, is stating a fact, so this case is quite a different case it seems, in many ways.

I also find it interesting that the case was somehow promoted headlong into the media, I think a few people feel that way JMO

If DM had been hanged from a tree on May 12 , 2013 your argument would be valid.

"Presumption of innocence" is one of the most misunderstood and misused terms

"Presumption of guilt" is more appropriate .... that is why people are interviewed and questioned .... that is why arrests are made .... that is why charges are laid .... that is why people sit in jail waiting to go to trial .... because there is enough evidence for everybody to "presume they are guilty "

But no sentencing or punishment is handed out until they are found guilty in court.

And until they are found guilty they are treated as though innocent by our legal system ... it does not mean they are innocent , never has .

At one time if a horse went missing and there was a stranger in town the guy could be hanged from a tree before the sun went down because everybody presumed he was guilty .

When the horse was found to have simply wandered off ... the lynch mob realized their mistake and society began to apply the presumption of innocence until the theft could be proven in court ... that was the whole intent of the term

 

[Arnie M]

i have never seen such a continued determination to deflect attention off millard and / or attempt to re-direct WS threads with the mention of other cases / issues before. after so many instances one begins to think it's intentional...

I Agree

Thank you