Court Appearances and Canadian Legal Terms

[Juballee]

It looks like somebody can't tell the two accused apart:

"Millard arrived first wearing a white shirt and jeans. He was noticeably thinner then his last court appearance. He’s also grown his hair and had it pulled back into a ponytail – he also has a full beard.

Smich, clean shaven and wearing a blue check shirt and blue pants, sat in the prisoners box beside Millard."

http://www.chch.com/bosma-accused-millard-smich-in-court/

"Both Millard and Smich were in Hamilton's John Sopinka courthouse Thursday, Millard in a blue and white small checkered shirt with a clean shaven face, visibly slimmer than previous appearances. He often stared at Smich in the prisoner's box, who was wearing a white button up shirt, Guess jeans, sporting a beard and pony tail."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ng-trial-pushed-back-to-jan-18-2016-1.3109601

Who is right and why hasn't the wrong one been corrected yet?

It also now makes me really wonder who was starting at who, if they can't tell the two apart.

 

[Alethea Dice]

It looks like somebody can't tell the two accused apart:

"Millard arrived first wearing a white shirt and jeans. He was noticeably thinner then his last court appearance. He’s also grown his hair and had it pulled back into a ponytail – he also has a full beard.

Smich, clean shaven and wearing a blue check shirt and blue pants, sat in the prisoners box beside Millard."

http://www.chch.com/bosma-accused-millard-smich-in-court/

"Both Millard and Smich were in Hamilton's John Sopinka courthouse Thursday, Millard in a blue and white small checkered shirt with a clean shaven face, visibly slimmer than previous appearances. He often stared at Smich in the prisoner's box, who was wearing a white button up shirt, Guess jeans, sporting a beard and pony tail."

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ng-trial-pushed-back-to-jan-18-2016-1.3109601

Who is right and why hasn't the wrong one been corrected yet?

It also now makes me really wonder who was starting at who, if they can't tell the two apart.

That was my first thought too - who was staring at who? Pretty shabby reporting.

JMO

 

[Tamarind]

That was my first thought too - who was staring at who? Pretty shabby reporting.

JMO

Agreed. It's hard to interpret why someone would stare at another. If Smich was staring at DM, it may have been because DM was so thin and looked different. Sometimes the reason we stare at someone is so minor. I have found myself staring at someone who has had nice hair or who looked like someone I knew...

 

[Alethea Dice]

Agreed. It's hard to interpret why someone would stare at another. If Smich was staring at DM, it may have been because DM was so thin and looked different. Sometimes the reason we stare at someone is so minor. I have found myself staring at someone who has had nice hair or who looked like someone I knew...

I usually find that it's the guilty person who can't look you in the eye. JMO

 

[Tamarind]

I usually find that it's the guilty person who can't look you in the eye. JMO

In a case like this I agree. It's definitely not about the hair imo

 

[Alethea Dice]

In spite of the inaccuracies in the CBC article, it's a little interesting to see how the comments section has changed as the years go by.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-slaying-trial-pushed-back-to-jan-18-2016-1.3109601

 

[Juballee]

In spite of the inaccuracies in the CBC article, it's a little interesting to see how the comments section has changed as the years go by.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamilton/news/tim-bosma-slaying-trial-pushed-back-to-jan-18-2016-1.3109601

Wow, that is quite a change in the comments section! It's refreshing to know that there are more than a couple of people questioning how just it is to keep a man in solitary for 2 years without a trial.

 

[swedie]

I also noticed those comments on that article the other day also AD and I literally :silly:

<modsnip>

 

[SnooperDuper]

Wow, that is quite a change in the comments section! It's refreshing to know that there are more than a couple of people questioning how just it is to keep a man in solitary for 2 years without a trial.

It's quite simple, really: it took a year to do the investigation, the investigation had to be complete before full disclosure was given, full disclosure had to be given before they could proceed to trial.

Sure it only took 8 days for DM to face charges in TB's death: should LE have halted all investigation and proceeded to trial at that point?

Consider April 10, 2014 an important date. CN was charged in TB's death, DM and MS were charged in LB's and DM was charged in WM's death. I would say LE had things wrapped up right around then...

From that point it was only 10 and a half months until pretrial motions began Feb 23, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ic-and-media-from-pre-trial-hearing-1.2968659

Right now LB's PI is scheduled to occur about 17 months after the charges, and WM's PI is scheduled in 21 months.

You could say 10-1/2 months until action is quite brisk, in comparison to the other trials.

CBC invariably allowed no commenting on all DM articles until this one, and they did close commenting after 7 "refreshing" comments on the latest DM story, whereas comments on other stories are allowed to run into the hundreds. Why is that?

 

[SnooperDuper]

This is waaay back from Tuesday, Sep. 10, 2013

Dellen Millard has no plans to seek bail as he awaits his murder trial, in part for &#8220;tactical reasons,&#8221; according to his lawyer.

Mr. Millard is charged with first-degree murder in the death of Tim Bosma, a 32-year-old father who was killed in May after taking two men to test drive his pickup truck. Mr. Millard&#8217;s rural Ontario farm is currently being scoured for clues into the disappearance of one of his friends, Laura Babcock, who went missing in July, 2012.

His lawyer, Deepak Paradkar would not go into detail about the decision against seeking bail, but said trying to achieve release is a &#8220;very, very onerous task&#8221; in first-degree murder cases.

&#8220;There are a lot of tactical reasons why one might not go for bail, because at a bail hearing, [the Crown] might get to present a case which might affect a lot of things,&#8221; he said, adding that the choice was also influenced by &#8220;privileged conversations&#8221; and publicity surrounding the case.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...lice-continue-to-search-farm/article14239837/

When DM was charged with one murder and investigated for two, he dared not seek bail for "tactical reasons"

Surely now that he's been charged in all three deaths, he has nothing to lose and should go ahead and seek bail?

 

[Arnie M]

SnooperDooper .... good points on your timeline ... like you said , the TB trial would already be underway or completed if not for the later LB & WM investigations.

And once Defense receives full disclosure they need time to plan strategy and line up their own expert witnesses .... that is if they still plan to "defend the charges vigorously" .

Most of all , I hope the Prosecutors have used these two years productively and laid out their case(s) in a clear and concise manner

 

[SnooperDuper]

SnooperDooper .... good points on your timeline ... like you said , the TB trial would already be underway or completed if not for the later LB & WM investigations.

And once Defense receives full disclosure they need time to plan strategy and line up their own expert witnesses .... that is if they still plan to "defend the charges vigorously" .

Most of all , I hope the Prosecutors have used these two years productively and laid out their case(s) in a clear and concise manner

The three M's were charged two days before that, April 8, 2014.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

That's 6 people charged and two new murder charges for DM over 2 days related to Project Capella.

I would argue that because CN was not picked up until April 10, 2014, the TB case was open and being investigated until then. I don't think LE was obligated to disclose that to DM's lawyer, either.



That PowerCase software I mentioned earlier - LE puts in all of their evidence in forms (like doing your taxes) and it spits out disclosure documents automatically once you release evidence for disclosure.

I could imagine DM getting nothing, nothing, nothing, and then once the investigators close the investigation and release evidence for disclosure...they just have to punch a button and a flood of perfectly formatted and validated disclosure documents would be released from the system all at once.

The software makes sure the documents are technically perfect.

LE has a huge advantage here because they have software that allows them to visualize all of their evidence: for instance, look at the network diagram HPS released for Project Pharoh:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...nd-suspended-hamilton-cop-ruthowsky-1.3110089

DM's lawyers OTOH are going to have to accept a good old fashioned pile of paper, and try to make sense of that, snap.

It's interesting that DP is off the case after 2 years.

DP was going to take all that evidence and put it into a timeline in BeeDocs http://peeldefencelawyer.ca/my-philosophy/

LE has a much more sophisticated information management system (which IMO must have helped speed the investigation quite a bit).

 

[Alethea Dice]

I also noticed those comments on that article the other day also AD and I literally :silly:

<modsnip>

That doesn't surprise me. There aren't an abundance of articles anymore, especially ones that allow comments. I don't see anyone there defending the accused. I see a few people defending basic human rights. JMO

I highly doubt anyone would go to the bother of making extra identities to add extra comments to an article with such a low amount of feedback. JMO

<modsnip>

 

[Alethea Dice]

It's quite simple, really: it took a year to do the investigation, the investigation had to be complete before full disclosure was given, full disclosure had to be given before they could proceed to trial.

Sure it only took 8 days for DM to face charges in TB's death: should LE have halted all investigation and proceeded to trial at that point?

Consider April 10, 2014 an important date. CN was charged in TB's death, DM and MS were charged in LB's and DM was charged in WM's death. I would say LE had things wrapped up right around then...

From that point it was only 10 and a half months until pretrial motions began Feb 23, 2015 http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...ic-and-media-from-pre-trial-hearing-1.2968659

Right now LB's PI is scheduled to occur about 17 months after the charges, and WM's PI is scheduled in 21 months.

You could say 10-1/2 months until action is quite brisk, in comparison to the other trials.

CBC invariably allowed no commenting on all DM articles until this one, and they did close commenting after 7 "refreshing" comments on the latest DM story, whereas comments on other stories are allowed to run into the hundreds. Why is that?

Why would it take a year for them to investigate TB's death? It appears they had enough when DM was first arrested for the general public to find him guilty and call for the death penalty to be reinstated. They didn't need to solve LB's and WM's cases before they could finish TB's case. LB and WM are not HPS cases, even if the OPP is coordinating them under the MSM. Therefore, it was a year and 10 1/2 months - to finish their investigation??

I don't know which MSM allowed commenting, but I don't remember any of them having hundreds of comments (or any) in about the last year and a half. I only remember the hundreds of "refreshing" comments, to bring back the death penalty and not to bother having a trial, when the case first started and was in the news on a daily basis.

JMO

 

[Alethea Dice]

This is waaay back from Tuesday, Sep. 10, 2013



http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...lice-continue-to-search-farm/article14239837/

When DM was charged with one murder and investigated for two, he dared not seek bail for "tactical reasons"

Surely now that he's been charged in all three deaths, he has nothing to lose and should go ahead and seek bail?

Why? It would be pretty pointless.

 

[Alethea Dice]

SnooperDooper .... good points on your timeline ... like you said , the TB trial would already be underway or completed if not for the later LB & WM investigations.

And once Defense receives full disclosure they need time to plan strategy and line up their own expert witnesses .... that is if they still plan to "defend the charges vigorously" .

Most of all , I hope the Prosecutors have used these two years productively and laid out their case(s) in a clear and concise manner

I doubt that it would have been done by now. Even skipping the preliminary hearing only saves a few short weeks, if anything. Three years seems to be the norm in Ontario for a murder trial any more. Why can't Hamilton proceed with the TB case without Toronto finishing their investigations into LB and WM?

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

Why would it take a year for them to investigate TB's death? It appears they had enough when DM was first arrested for the general public to find him guilty and call for the death penalty to be reinstated. They didn't need to solve LB's and WM's cases before they could finish TB's case. LB and WM are not HPS cases, even if the OPP is coordinating them under the MSM. Therefore, it was a year and 10 1/2 months - to finish their investigation??

I don't know which MSM allowed commenting, but I don't remember any of them having hundreds of comments (or any) in about the last year and a half. I only remember the hundreds of "refreshing" comments, to bring back the death penalty and not to bother having a trial, when the case first started and was in the news on a daily basis.

JMO

Actually the charges were laid re WM and LB on the 9th...but anyway...is there anything out of whack here...? Isn't there normally time allowed for investigation, thorough investigation of a case before LE rushes to test their theories in court? Is one of the cases taking far longer than any of the others?

When should LE have stopped investigating, on May 10, 2013 when they first arrested DM? (Then they would have never arrested MS on the 22nd)

Isn't it only fair to DM to consider all the accusations against him together?

Aren't they doing well for time given the number of cases DM is subject to? I mean DM's like the guy who orders 6 McDoubles at the drive through, he's clogging the system with cases.

 

[SnooperDuper]

Why? It would be pretty pointless.

Year, what's another year in solitary confinement when you already have 2 under your belt and are staring down 7 decades more...?

 

[Alethea Dice]

The three M's were charged two days before that, April 8, 2014.

http://news.nationalpost.com/toront...-accused-of-selling-him-alleged-murder-weapon

That's 6 people charged and two new murder charges for DM over 2 days related to Project Capella.

I would argue that because CN was not picked up until April 10, 2014, the TB case was open and being investigated until then. I don't think LE was obligated to disclose that to DM's lawyer, either.

I'm not sure what your point is here. That, because they were investigating other crimes that may be connected to the accused, it's okay to let TB's case simmer for a year?

The Crown is obligated to provide full disclosure to the Defense in a timely manner. That includes any and all parts of the investigation, including things that may point to an accused's innocence. If new evidence is found after disclosure has been provided, that still needs to be disclosed to the Defense as soon as it's available.

That PowerCase software I mentioned earlier - LE puts in all of their evidence in forms (like doing your taxes) and it spits out disclosure documents automatically once you release evidence for disclosure.

I could imagine DM getting nothing, nothing, nothing, and then once the investigators close the investigation and release evidence for disclosure...they just have to punch a button and a flood of perfectly formatted and validated disclosure documents would be released from the system all at once.

The software makes sure the documents are technically perfect.

No software is perfect. JMO

LE has a huge advantage here because they have software that allows them to visualize all of their evidence: for instance, look at the network diagram HPS released for Project Pharoh:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/hamil...nd-suspended-hamilton-cop-ruthowsky-1.3110089

That diagram was prepared by CBC, not HPS.

A forced-network graph created by CBC Hamilton shows an interesting set of connections when looking at the network of co-accused with shared charges.

DM's lawyers OTOH are going to have to accept a good old fashioned pile of paper, and try to make sense of that, snap.

I doubt that the defense received a pile of paper. More than likely a box of computer files. JMO

It's interesting that DP is off the case after 2 years.

DP was going to take all that evidence and put it into a timeline in BeeDocs http://peeldefencelawyer.ca/my-philosophy/

LE has a much more sophisticated information management system (which IMO must have helped speed the investigation quite a bit).

Thank heavens for that system speeding up the investigation. Otherwise it might have taken four to six years to get to trial. :gaah:

JMO

 

[SnooperDuper]

I doubt that it would have been done by now. Even skipping the preliminary hearing only saves a few short weeks, if anything. Three years seems to be the norm in Ontario for a murder trial any more. Why can't Hamilton proceed with the TB case without Toronto finishing their investigations into LB and WM?

JMO

Didn't they complete their investigations into LB and WM, allowing charges, disclosure, and procedure on to a preliminary inquiry, with dates set for both cases?

People really think LE thinks is silos and sequentially, only working on one case at a time? Like on WS ha ha ha where we always stick to just one case at one time!!! Every thread is about only one thing, and we don't start a new topic until that thread is closed!

The case was "Project Capella" and judging by the whack of charges laid April 2014, LE was watching a bunch of people for a long time.

I don't know if it would have been efficient to only investigate what led up to the TB thing, and then to go back to the same people months later and ask them about WM, and then come back again to see if anyone remembers what went on with LB.

No, LE were probably there to talk about DM, which means TB, WM, LB, MS and all of his other associates. They fed all of their info into their PowerCase database and allowed the database to suss out linkages and sort out what was relevant to which case(s). It is because they have the PowerCase tool that LE is able to investigate all three crimes concurrently. I don't think any one investigation was holding back any other.

Keep in mind some laboratory test results might take months to return to LE and until you have the answer to those questions, an investigation would remain open.