Crystal S., Haleigh's mother #8

[Helplessly Hoping]

The 12 missed appointments go back to the original custody decision. IMO

 

[debs]

The 12 missed appointments go back to the original custody decision. IMO

Yes, in 2005. Haleigh would have been about 20 months, Jr about 8. In any case, it does not answer the question (again) why NO ONE ELSE stepped up to get her to the appt when even on the first time, Crystal showed no motivation to scoot herself out the door to do it. The second time, it just seems like someone else would be there to make sure it happened.

 

[Dr.Fessel]

Anyone know of any searches going on for Haleigh?

 

[crocus]

Anyone know of any searches going on for Haleigh?

Good question! We haven't heard anything related to this at all.

The focus has been shifted lately......

 

[atherella]

According to the Florida Bar documents the testimony was that Crystal missed 12 recent doctor's appointments. How recent? Who knows. There is no excuse to continuously miss doctor's appointments, Doesn't matter if Crystal missed them or Ronald missed them, Haleigh paid the price.

I find it hard to comprehend the argument that Ronald just stood by and did nothing about Haleigh missing her appointments. This is the man that everyone says is abusive and controlling, yet some would suggest he conform to those descriptions and put his foot down. I doubt that would have been well received by Crystal or Marie. Who knows though, right?

What I am more concerned with is that Kim P stated that Crystal had made few attempts to have time sharing with the children. I was curious about what exactly time sharing was.

http://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/family/forms_rules/905a.pdf

snip~Parenting and Time-Sharing. If you and the respondent are unable to agree a judge will decide for you as part of establishing a Parenting Plan. The judge will decide the parenting and time-sharing arrangements based on the child(ren)’s best interests. Regardless of whether there is an agreement, the court reserves jurisdiction to modify issues relating to the minor child(ren). ~end snip.

Can anyone tell me what that means? TIA

BBM

Let me hit the docs and try to find what the part about visitation.

The final judgment (from 2005) stated Crystal's visitation was every other weekend - at a minimum - and that she was allowed weekday visits upon notice. Kim stated the Crystal never took advantage of the weekday visits, and never even called the kids. Her contact with the children was limited to 4 days per month on alternating weekends. Crystal did not participate in HaLeigh's schooling, her school functions, and was not aware of the plans for Junior's upcoming school (the school that he will be in now - Fall of 2009).

Here is a screenshot from the docs:

http://imgsrv.thesky973.com/image/wsky/UserFiles/File/Object_130C2E2_0.PDF
(Page 14)

Regarding our other question, a Parenting Plan is a long document that the Court uses that details every single detail of the two parents time spent with the child(ren). It divides holiday time, weekends, transportation, etc. It leaves NO stone unturned.

Here is the FL Parenting Plan form for you to look over. (The actual form starts on Page 4. The beginning is just instructions)

http://www.flcourts.org/gen_public/family/forms_rules/995a.pdf

 

[kiki the parrot]

people lie. they tell little falsehoods, and big whoppers. it is the people who make it a way of communicating that are the problem.

This isn't about blaming everyone else for Crystal's behavior; in fact, as unflattering as it is, she herself put it out there.

(snip, bbm) You are right deb, Crystal has been brutally honest about her past failures and is quick to acknowledge her shortcomings. I think you're right, the majority of people do most likely lie. But I've learned the people I really need to worry about are the ones who lie not about what they do, but about who they are.

It has never been confirmed that the reason Crystal didn't take Haleigh to the doctor's appointments was laziness. No one is really sure of any reason. I was under the impression and now I'm asking that Crystal didn't have a driver's license during all of this time, anyone remember?

Also no one knows what her seizures are related to. How unkind to state these things as facts when we just don't know. Crystal has flaws, I do too. No matter what her flaws, she was not the custodial parent the night Haleigh vanished.

About ten years ago I had two seizures and the reason was never found, and I have never taken illegal drugs. So, anyone who says differently is purely speculating unless they have her doctor's reports.

You speak the truth Pgranny, I developed a seizure disorder in my forties... and hadn't as much as smoked a cigarette in 30 years. Seems a desperate attempt to sully Crystal, when we've seen no evidence this is the cause for her medical condition. Heartless and baseless.

arrot:

 

[curvecuti]

Yes, in 2005. Haleigh would have been about 20 months, Jr about 8. In any case, it does not answer the question (again) why NO ONE ELSE stepped up to get her to the appt when even on the first time, Crystal showed no motivation to scoot herself out the door to do it. The second time, it just seems like someone else would be there to make sure it happened.

I thought I answered this. :waitasec: We have no way of knowing whether those appts. were re-scheduled. I choose to assume they were by RC and family. moo.

 

[curvecuti]

Crystal has told one lie after another in all this. It's quite clear if you read the bar complaint and then rewatch her interviews. She lied about RC giving a bogus address for her, RC had nothing to do w/ the papers that WERE served, another lie, she said she was never served. She also said that her losing custody had nothing to do w/ drug use, another lie. She said she was clean after she left RC, lie, Chloe was born addicted to narcotics. She had the "seizure" with Chloe in the car and gave pills to her father. Giving KP the "abuse" photos of Haleigh, lie. For people who can't view the docs, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many, many more. Bottom line, Crystal, Marie and KP have lied to everyone, including each other, over and over and over. And if it wasn't an outright lie, it was a concealment of truth and twisting of words. This is moo, but it can be proven through the bar complaint docs.

 

[debs]

Crystal has told one lie after another in all this. It's quite clear if you read the bar complaint and then rewatch her interviews. She lied about RC giving a bogus address for her, RC had nothing to do w/ the papers that WERE served, another lie, she said she was never served. She also said that her losing custody had nothing to do w/ drug use, another lie. She said she was clean after she left RC, lie, Chloe was born addicted to narcotics. She had the "seizure" with Chloe in the car and gave pills to her father. Giving KP the "abuse" photos of Haleigh, lie. For people who can't view the docs, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many, many more. Bottom line, Crystal, Marie and KP have lied to everyone, including each other, over and over and over. And if it wasn't an outright lie, it was a concealment of truth and twisting of words. This is moo, but it can be proven through the bar complaint docs.

I'm not being facetious when I ask this, but if this bbm statement is what you truly believe, how is it you can believe the bar document at all? I saw no rebuttal made by Crystal and Marie to the larger, most indicting part of Kim's document, and so they go unanswered and therefore merely hang out there. If they were to have been able to offer a rebuttal, which and how many of those claims would be cleared up and refuted?

If liars are liars and what they do is lie, and you believe these three people to be liars, the natural end to that syllogism is that you also believe this bar complaint with unanswered charges against her former client, COULD contain lies.

How do we know which of those statements to believe at all, then?

At the end of the day, Crystal IN HER OWN WORDS, makes us realize she wasn't a great mom. She admits it. She doesn't pretend that it was better than it was. I give a lot of credence (like Kiki stated) to a person's character when they tell the truth about who they are. I have every hope that Crystal has been working on that and is becoming a better person.

NONE of that has anything to do, with the exception of what people repeat often, with the night Haleigh disappeared. The repeated "Haleigh never had a chance" is probably true. This has to be the most messed up thing I've ever in my life witnessed, and that's going a stretch down a long road.

Whatever else, on the day of Feb 9, through the morning of Feb 10th, a series of events took place which culminated in a 911 call at 3:27 a.m. to report a missing child. How is her mom missing dr's appt's 4 years prior to that disappearance relevant outside of the victimology which is designed to answer the questions "Why this child?"

She has a lot of people who love her, does Haleigh....but I sure don't know whether she had many who cared enough to protect her every step of the way. And for that, I will point to every one in her family. She deserved better in their care, and Jr now deserves the best.

 

[curvecuti]

I'm not being facetious when I ask this, but if this bbm statement is what you truly believe, how is it you can believe the bar document at all? I saw no rebuttal made by Crystal and Marie to the larger, most indicting part of Kim's document, and so they go unanswered and therefore merely hang out there. If they were to have been able to offer a rebuttal, which and how many of those claims would be cleared up and refuted?

If liars are liars and what they do is lie, and you believe these three people to be liars, the natural end to that syllogism is that you also believe this bar complaint with unanswered charges against her former client, COULD contain lies.

How do we know which of those statements to believe at all, then?

At the end of the day, Crystal IN HER OWN WORDS, makes us realize she wasn't a great mom. She admits it. She doesn't pretend that it was better than it was. I give a lot of credence (like Kiki stated) to a person's character when they tell the truth about who they are. I have every hope that Crystal has been working on that and is becoming a better person.

NONE of that has anything to do, with the exception of what people repeat often, with the night Haleigh disappeared. The repeated "Haleigh never had a chance" is probably true. This has to be the most messed up thing I've ever in my life witnessed, and that's going a stretch down a long road.

Whatever else, on the day of Feb 9, through the morning of Feb 10th, a series of events took place which culminated in a 911 call at 3:27 a.m. to report a missing child. How is her mom missing dr's appt's 4 years prior to that disappearance relevant outside of the victimology which is designed to answer the questions "Why this child?"

She has a lot of people who love her, does Haleigh....but I sure don't know whether she had many who cared enough to protect her every step of the way. And for that, I will point to every one in her family. She deserved better in their care, and Jr now deserves the best.

I believe it because KP has email, texts & documentation to back it up. Facts. The very act of no rebuttal seems to imply that they have no defense to these claims. It's hard to refute something that is in black and white, especially official documents. That the Bar Complaint was dismissed shows me that KP's evidence was substantial, and the other side, not so much. I have never heard CS say she wasn't a great Mom. But I have heard her tell lies about RC and have seen her, MG and KP literally assainate RC and his family's character, in a concerted effort. They set out to do these things, planned them. That to me shows horrible character, especially on CS and MG part because they knew for a fact these claims were not true. KP did not know at the time but she did investigate and found them to be lies later. But even then there was no mention made to try and clear the air. Just more covering of their tracks and the truth. MOO.

I understand that some like CS, I feel bad for her and how she has been bullied by MG, and feel that she was forced into things by RC, but if you read those docs. and look at the emails, texts, statements of DCF, the truth is there and it's not pretty. It does not bare out at all that CS has a good character. Moo. Everyone is free to draw their own conclusions from the truths and facts that are shown and those are mine. IMO & MOO.

 

[debs]

And yet, there are many images of Crystal comforting Teresa and Ronald, and even Misty was in a hug, and many times she made statements which would say something good about Ronald. It wasn't until March when things got ugly, and I rarely heard the comments out of Crystal's mouth (not to say it wasn't said but now I wonder at the pressure) but her attorney's.

In fact, I believe it was many people here who want everyone else to see Crystal's behavior in a less than (using someone else's word here.....) angelic manner, who pointed out this weird inconsistency, stating that Crystal says one thing, then when she gets an attorney, all this stuff came out, which was the primary cause for disdain toward Crystal.

Given that most people view Crystal as someone who is easily manipulated into doing something, and her natural tendency is to not do ANYTHING on her own initiative, it seems fair to acknowledge those with similar views such as yours, Curve, that Crystal was just saying what she was told to say and probably just couldn't give a rat's ........er, head.....because she thought she was getting sound advice.

I believe early on in this case, I made a statement that Crystal needed to grow up and break away from everyone who is trying to influence her and make her own darn decisions. I don't think I put it as nicely then. But the sentiment remains the same.

 

[curvecuti]

And yet, there are many images of Crystal comforting Teresa and Ronald, and even Misty was in a hug, and many times she made statements which would say something good about Ronald. It wasn't until March when things got ugly, and I rarely heard the comments out of Crystal's mouth (not to say it wasn't said but now I wonder at the pressure) but her attorney's.

In fact, I believe it was many people here who want everyone else to see Crystal's behavior in a less than (using someone else's word here.....) angelic manner, who pointed out this weird inconsistency, stating that Crystal says one thing, then when she gets an attorney, all this stuff came out, which was the primary cause for disdain toward Crystal.

Given that most people view Crystal as someone who is easily manipulated into doing something, and her natural tendency is to not do ANYTHING on her own initiative, it seems fair to acknowledge those with similar views such as yours, Curve, that Crystal was just saying what she was told to say and probably just couldn't give a rat's ........er, head.....because she thought she was getting sound advice.

I believe early on in this case, I made a statement that Crystal needed to grow up and break away from everyone who is trying to influence her and make her own darn decisions. I don't think I put it as nicely then. But the sentiment remains the same.

debs, we can agree to disagree on some things.

I do think that CS was bullied into some of the things that were done.

And I agree, CS is not a child and she should have stood up and said, No, I am not going to tell lies about the Father of my children and further more, I am only interested in finding Haleigh and I will not participate in lies or any activity that takes the spotlight off of her and finding her.

RC and family took the high road on that and CS could have too. She chose not too. Even if it was not an active choice, even if she just didn't give a crap, that was the choice she made. Moo.

And imo, CS's life is never going to get any better until she gets out from under MG's thumb. She needs to get out and get a place of her own w/ or w/o CG. She is young enough now to turn things around and I hope she can find the strength to do that, for herself and her children. moo.

ETA: IMO, I think CS is laid back, and gentle and I do think she has the potential to be a very good Mother. But she has to want it.

 

[PorcineGranny]

Curvecutie, The fact that Crystal provided no rebuttal does not mean charges are true. In the past when we have looked at Crystal she has been a passive participant in life. And just because someone has atty beside their name does not mean they are truthful and above manufacturing evidence. Its my opinion that Crystal has not lied about Ron, but like anytime she tries to stand up to him, she is branded a liar or instigator. The facts are that we just don't know the truth in this case.
Instead of fighting like this is a world tournament we should be using our brain and watching and praying for Haleigh. No matter what anyone says they can't change the fact that Ron was the custodial parent the night Haleigh disappeared. crystal may have danced in her underwear on rooftops but Ron chose the caregiver for those precious children while he was away. And Ron stood by that caregiver even after he was told she was the key to the investigation.

JMO Debs, your posts are brilliant, wish I had an amen button to push!

 

[debs]

debs, we can agree to disagree on some things.

I do think that CS was bullied into some of the things that were done.

And I agree, CS is not a child and she should have stood up and said, No, I am not going to tell lies about the Father of my children and further more, I am only interested in finding Haleigh and I will not participate in lies or any activity that takes the spotlight off of her and finding her.

RC and family took the high road on that and CS could have too. She chose not too. Even if it was not an active choice, even if she just didn't give a crap, that was the choice she made. Moo.

And imo, CS's life is never going to get any better until she gets out from under MG's thumb. She needs to get out and get a place of her own w/ or w/o CG. She is young enough now to turn things around and I hope she can find the strength to do that, for herself and her children. moo.

ETA: IMO, I think CS is laid back, and gentle and I do think she has the potential to be a very good Mother. But she has to want it.

I can find only the part I bolded with which to disagree.

 

[curvecuti]

I can find only the part I bolded with which to disagree.

Duly noted. :crazy:

 

[debs]

Duly noted. :crazy:

I know, right? Just a small............tiny........minuscule gap to leap over now......

I'll wait...

 

[Gotarugrat]

RC had custody. As the custodial parent the burden was on HIM (not CS) to keep her appraised of things like doctors, dentists, school functions, etc. Does CS have a right to know this information? Yes, unless the visitation documentation specifically forbids it. Some doctors/dentists and schools will NOT give out information about children to the noncustodial parent without the primary parent’s permission.
Is it possible that CS wasn’t told of these doctor/dentist appointments? Is it possible CS asked and was lied to? Is it possible she tried to find out any of this information and was emotionally “beat down” so she just accepted it? Is it possible she was told, but didn’t have any transportation? Is it possible that someone else was already taking Haleigh to these appointments so CS saw no need to go?
The same goes with the telephone and with visitation. Did she ever call? Did she ever try to obtain additional visitation? Was she denied over and over so she stopped trying?
Is it possible that CS is just a terrible parent and never did any of these things, but without proof coming straight from CS, I have a hard time buying it even though it came from KP.
IMO CS really seems to be a victim. She acts like someone who was very seriously emotionally abused. Now, whether that was RC and his clan or her own family (or both) I don’t know. There is so much bad blood between those two families I don’t know if we’ll ever really know the truth about how involved CS wanted to be and tried to be and was “put in her place” so to speak. Who knows.
I am a custodial parent, but I know FOR A FACT that if my ex had got custody he would have done all of those things, not let me know who the doctor was, or when appointments were, or when there were school activities going on, or let me have additional visitation and so on, so I can empathize… but…if that would have happened, I would have done everything in my power to make sure it didn’t stay that way.
That said, I don’t really know what any of this has to say about what happened to Haleigh or how it happened. I still believe the person who has the most to answer for is Misty.

 

[curvecuti]

RC had custody. As the custodial parent the burden was on HIM (not CS) to keep her appraised of things like doctors, dentists, school functions, etc. Does CS have a right to know this information? Yes, unless the visitation documentation specifically forbids it. Some doctors/dentists and schools will NOT give out information about children to the noncustodial parent without the primary parent’s permission.
Is it possible that CS wasn’t told of these doctor/dentist appointments? Is it possible CS asked and was lied to? Is it possible she tried to find out any of this information and was emotionally “beat down” so she just accepted it? Is it possible she was told, but didn’t have any transportation? Is it possible that someone else was already taking Haleigh to these appointments so CS saw no need to go?
The same goes with the telephone and with visitation. Did she ever call? Did she ever try to obtain additional visitation? Was she denied over and over so she stopped trying?
Is it possible that CS is just a terrible parent and never did any of these things, but without proof coming straight from CS, I have a hard time buying it even though it came from KP.
IMO CS really seems to be a victim. She acts like someone who was very seriously emotionally abused. Now, whether that was RC and his clan or her own family (or both) I don’t know. There is so much bad blood between those two families I don’t know if we’ll ever really know the truth about how involved CS wanted to be and tried to be and was “put in her place” so to speak. Who knows.
I am a custodial parent, but I know FOR A FACT that if my ex had got custody he would have done all of those things, not let me know who the doctor was, or when appointments were, or when there were school activities going on, or let me have additional visitation and so on, so I can empathize… but…if that would have happened, I would have done everything in my power to make sure it didn’t stay that way.
That said, I don’t really know what any of this has to say about what happened to Haleigh or how it happened. I still believe the person who has the most to answer for is Misty.

I don't know about anyone else, but when it comes to MY daughter, no one is going to have to keep me apprised of anything. I will KNOW what is going on! If I had to bypass her Father and go directly to the source, I would. She is MY daughter every bit as much as she is his. I can call and find things out on my own I certainly wouldn't wait around on ANYONE to tell me anything about MY CHILD. moo.
CS does not HAVE to be a victim, she chooses even if by indifference, she made the choice to be a victim. She is a grown woman, not a child. Even if I couldn't stand up for myself, (I used to be a doormat myself), I can and will stand up for my child. I WILL protect her no matter what. MOO.

 

[Gotarugrat]

I don't know about anyone else, but when it comes to MY daughter, no one is going to have to keep me apprised of anything. I will KNOW what is going on! If I had to bypass her Father and go directly to the source, I would. She is MY daughter every bit as much as she is his. I can call and find things out on my own I certainly wouldn't wait around on ANYONE to tell me anything about MY CHILD. moo.
CS does not HAVE to be a victim, she chooses even if by indifference, she made the choice to be a victim. She is a grown woman, not a child. Even if I couldn't stand up for myself, (I used to be a doormat myself), I can and will stand up for my child. I WILL protect her no matter what. MOO.

I'm right there with ya, sista! I would be the same way and have been.

...but how your or I handle a situation may not be how someone else handles a situation. Another person may need to be shown how to choose to stand up for themselves.

I've never said I agreed with doing things the way that she has, only that I understand how it can happen.
I said it before. CS needs to get some therapy ASAP. Someone who can help her emotionally and give her support.

 

[curvecuti]

I'm right there with ya, sista! I would be the same way and have been.

...but how your or I handle a situation may not be how someone else handles a situation. Another person may need to be shown how to choose to stand up for themselves.

I've never said I agreed with doing things the way that she has, only that I understand how it can happen.
I said it before. CS needs to get some therapy ASAP. Someone who can help her emotionally and give her support.

I agree 100%! I wish Kim P. had forced the issue with her. I think it would help her immensely.