Crystal S., Haleigh's mother #8

[elle1919]

(snip, bbm) You are right deb, Crystal has been brutally honest about her past failures and is quick to acknowledge her shortcomings. I think you're right, the majority of people do most likely lie. But I've learned the people I really need to worry about are the ones who lie not about what they do, but about who they are.



You speak the truth Pgranny, I developed a seizure disorder in my forties... and hadn't as much as smoked a cigarette in 30 years. Seems a desperate attempt to sully Crystal, when we've seen no evidence this is the cause for her medical condition. Heartless and baseless.

arrot:

Are you trying to say that some lies are okay and others are not? It sounded that way to me when I read what you said in the portion of your post that I bolded. Is this the advice that you would give to a child? I won't worry when you lie to me about the things that you do, because it doesn't matter so much if you lie about the things that you do, as long as you are honest about the person that you are?:waitasec: Kind of confusing, just my opinion.

Crystal was not brutally honest, in my opinion. She allowed the media to report that she had a seizure while Chloe was in the car with her. What Crystal knew at that time, while the evening news was running a story to gander sympathy for a mother with a missing child,was that she handed prescription medication, that did not belong to her, over to her father so that when the police arrived she would not have been caught with them in her possession. Her father went along with it and had Marie not fired Crystal's pro bono attorney, we might not be privy to all of this information. Aren't the actions that I describe the exact actions that have been attributed to Teresa Neves? Enabling?

I am not trying to "sully" Crystal, there is no shame whatsoever in admitting when you have done something wrong, and in my opinion, there is absolutely no shame in addiction. But if the people that support Crystal continue to make excuses for Crystal's actions, like her mother or her father, or her current lawyer, they are not doing Crystal any favors. Nor are they ensuring that their grandchildren, who they claim to love so deeply, will have a safe and happy future.

 

[Gotarugrat]

Are you trying to say that some lies are okay and others are not? It sounded that way to me when I read what you said in the portion of your post that I bolded. Is this the advice that you would give to a child? I won't worry when you lie to me about the things that you do, because it doesn't matter so much if you lie about the things that you do, as long as you are honest about the person that you are?:waitasec: Kind of confusing, just my opinion.

Crystal was not brutally honest, in my opinion. She allowed the media to report that she had a seizure while Chloe was in the car with her. What Crystal knew at that time, while the evening news was running a story to gander sympathy for a mother with a missing child,was that she handed prescription medication, that did not belong to her, over to her father so that when the police arrived she would not have been caught with them in her possession. Her father went along with it and had Marie not fired Crystal's pro bono attorney, we might not be privy to all of this information. Aren't the actions that I describe the exact actions that have been attributed to Teresa Neves? Enabling?

I am not trying to "sully" Crystal, there is no shame whatsoever in admitting when you have done something wrong, and in my opinion, there is absolutely no shame in addiction. But if the people that support Crystal continue to make excuses for Crystal's actions, like her mother or her father, or her current lawyer, they are not doing Crystal any favors. Nor are they ensuring that their grandchildren, who they claim to love so deeply, will have a safe and happy future.

BBM-

For some reason I can't find the links to all this stuff anymore.

It is my understanding that CS and her father have a less than ideal relationship, correct? CS was never given a drug test, also correct?
We also don't know if her supposed "drug use" caused the accident, right?
So, all we really have is hearsay, not proof.

 

[elle1919]

BBM-

For some reason I can't find the links to all this stuff anymore.

It is my understanding that CS and her father have a less than ideal relationship, correct? CS was never given a drug test, also correct?
We also don't know if her supposed "drug use" caused the accident, right?
So, all we really have is hearsay, not proof.

Did you check up in the media thread in the sticky forum here at WS?

I do not know if Crystal and her father have a less than ideal relationship. Don't recall reading that in the documents. No, we never heard that her drug use caused the accident, does that matter? Were you trying to imply that because there isn't a drug test on file we have no way of knowing if Crystal is addicted to a drug? On that you might be right, we have no drug test to refer to at present however, however, my sister was an addict and I became very skilled, very quickly at recognizing the signs of her drug use. Problem is I seem to have overlooked each and every one of them while watching the events unfold in this case. We have a mother that is not working, lives on her mother's homestead and has been accused of being lazy by that same mother, a person who on a number of occasions, spoke with slow or slurred speech, seemed unusually calm given the emotionally charged circumstances, has lost physical custody of her children and seemingly knows very little about their daily lives and routines, and if Haleigh's doctors appointments were neglected while she had visitation, we can also consider Crystal to have a lack of concern for her health care or the health care of her children. My sister had each and every one of the signs above and reporting them to DCF and saving the lives of my nieces and nephews was the hardest thing that I have ever had to do.

No I haven't seen drug test results, maybe Kim P didn't ever see any results either. Perhaps she had someone very close to her dealing with drug addiction and she recognized the signs that way.

 

[Gotarugrat]

Did you check up in the media thread in the sticky forum here at WS?

Were you trying to imply that because there isn't a drug test on file we have no way of knowing if Crystal is addicted to a drug? On that you might be right, we have no drug test to refer to at present however, however, my sister was an addict and I became very skilled, very quickly at recognizing the signs of her drug use.

No I haven't seen drug test results, maybe Kim P didn't ever see any results either. Perhaps she had someone very close to her dealing with drug addiction and she recognized the signs that way.

However without a positive drug test even with your experience all you have is suspicion, not proof.

 

[texasmommy39]

Maries twitter account has been deleted... It was made private a few days ago.

 

[elle1919]

However without a positive drug test even with your experience all you have is suspicion, not proof.

You might recall there was unfortunately a positive drug test when Chloe was born.

I am an outsider and my suspicions mean nothing. I can still hope that the insiders that are supporting Crystal and do have knowledge of current drug use will assure her that there is a way to a brighter future and if she wishes to have the children back in her custody full time there is a way to accomplish that goal. Quit using, comply with random drug testing and stay drug free. Simple as that. Well, also she will need to file a petition to re-visit the custody agreement, in all honesty I have always wondered why Crystal has not filed that petition. Everyone seemed to think the children should be with her, I am curious if everyone still believes that to be the case.

 

[debs]

You might recall there was unfortunately a positive drug test when Chloe was born.

I am an outsider and my suspicions mean nothing. I can still hope that the insiders that are supporting Crystal and do have knowledge of current drug use will assure her that there is a way to a brighter future and if she wishes to have the children back in her custody full time there is a way to accomplish that goal. Quit using, comply with random drug testing and stay drug free. Simple as that. Well, also she will need to file a petition to re-visit the custody agreement, in all honesty I have always wondered why Crystal has not filed that petition. Everyone seemed to think the children should be with her, I am curious if everyone still believes that to be the case.

Was there documentation for that positive drug test, or simply the word of someone?

 

[elle1919]

Was there documentation for that positive drug test, or simply the word of someone?

Well, I think you know the answer to your question. That documentation is on file with the DCF according to Kim P, Crystal's former attorney. Are you suggesting that Kim was lying to further make her case to the Florida Bar?

 

[curvecuti]

Well, I think you know the answer to your question. That documentation is on file with the DCF according to Kim P, Crystal's former attorney. Are you suggesting that Kim was lying to further make her case to the Florida Bar?

Honestly, Kim P. may have lied about some things, but something that easy to check out. I don't think she would risk her career on that. Too easy for the Bar to check out. imo

 

[cajun]

Honestly, Kim P. may have lied about some things, but something that easy to check out. I don't think she would risk her career on that. Too easy for the Bar to check out. imo

Plus, she would have to have documentation to back up her rebuttal. I read where she said stuff was available if requested. Maybe the Bar requested Kim to show the proof she had. Hopefully they weren't stupid enough just to take her at her word and not ask for documentation.

 

[elle1919]

Plus, she would have to have documentation to back up her rebuttal. I read where she said stuff was available if requested. Maybe the Bar requested Kim to show the proof she had. Hopefully they weren't stupid enough just to take her at her word and not ask for documentation.

I am sure there was a lot of investigating going on.

 

[OneLostGrl]

Crystal has told one lie after another in all this. It's quite clear if you read the bar complaint and then rewatch her interviews. She lied about RC giving a bogus address for her, RC had nothing to do w/ the papers that WERE served, another lie, she said she was never served. She also said that her losing custody had nothing to do w/ drug use, another lie. She said she was clean after she left RC, lie, Chloe was born addicted to narcotics. She had the "seizure" with Chloe in the car and gave pills to her father. Giving KP the "abuse" photos of Haleigh, lie. For people who can't view the docs, this is just the tip of the iceberg. There are many, many more. Bottom line, Crystal, Marie and KP have lied to everyone, including each other, over and over and over. And if it wasn't an outright lie, it was a concealment of truth and twisting of words. This is moo, but it can be proven through the bar complaint docs.

"We can never judge the lives of others, because each person knows only their own pain and renunciation. It's one thing to feel that you are on the right path, but it's another to think that yours is the only path."

:waitasec:

 

[Sillybilly]

am doing this on behalf of the owner of this board, Tricia Griffiths ... she is making a plea for all WSrs to help immediately !!

URGENT !!

www.klaasKids.org/pg-truckerTV.htm

Marc Klaas and KlaasKids desperately needs help NOW from each and every Websleuther to support Trucker TV through America.

Please take 3 minutes to read the above link, click the REPLY button, express your support or voice your concerns, click SEND.

Then forward the above link to your email contacts, everyone, everywhere, so they can do the same.

www.klaasKids.org/pg-truckerTV.htm

This may be the most important action you can ever take on behalf of missing children. THANK YOU TO ALL WSrs WHO MAY HAVE ALREADY RESPONDED TO THIS CALL !!

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Crystal is an addict. One of the symptoms, if you will, of this unfortunate condition is habitual lying. This lying often covers up behavior related to the substance abuse (e.g., Crystal lying about being served court papers, because she forgot the appointment or was too wrecked to go). Addicts also lie to avoid facing their own bad feelings about themselves or the disappointment and anger that others feel with them. Every indication we have is that Crystal is an addict. That isn't a judgment of her as a person; it's a fact born out by a court filing by her own attorney as well as the public statement of her father, who said she needed rehab.

We have no evidence that Ron Cummings has lied when he says he had nothing to do with his daughter's disappearance. When I see the first factual evidence that he is involved, I hope to be the first to post that he is a liar and a hypocrite, as well as much worse. Meanwhile, I have no evidence that his whole life is a lie (because I presume, once again, that we are using the Crystal thread to talk about Ron.)

 

[pittsburghgirl]

Honestly, Kim P. may have lied about some things, but something that easy to check out. I don't think she would risk her career on that. Too easy for the Bar to check out. imo

If Kim P. lied to the Bar--goodbye career. She could spin, and be selective, but she had to answer the charges, so it's not like she could just ignore what she didn't like and focus on making Crystal look bad. If she says there is documentation, then there would have to be, because the Bar could ask her to send it ASAP. However, the internal verification, including providing names of people who could testify to certain points, as well as the documents that WERE including in her response make a pretty good argument on her behalf. The one thing I thought she walked a narrow line on is who she represented; in a careful reading there are places that clearly look like Marie was a client. Marie is often the first name on emails, etc. That, of course, could be because Crystal is not physically able to conduct business.

 

[Whisperer]

I noticed Strickland's complaint against Baez was ruled in Baez's favor. I equate the Bar with DCF. Investigation?...in your dreams!

 

[kiki the parrot]

Are you trying to say that some lies are okay and others are not? It sounded that way to me when I read what you said in the portion of your post that I bolded. Is this the advice that you would give to a child? I won't worry when you lie to me about the things that you do, because it doesn't matter so much if you lie about the things that you do, as long as you are honest about the person that you are?:waitasec: Kind of confusing, just my opinion.
Crystal was not brutally honest, in my opinion. She allowed the media to report that she had a seizure while Chloe was in the car with her. What Crystal knew at that time, while the evening news was running a story to gander sympathy for a mother with a missing child,was that she handed prescription medication, that did not belong to her, over to her father so that when the police arrived she would not have been caught with them in her possession. Her father went along with it and had Marie not fired Crystal's pro bono attorney, we might not be privy to all of this information. Aren't the actions that I describe the exact actions that have been attributed to Teresa Neves? Enabling?

I am not trying to "sully" Crystal, there is no shame whatsoever in admitting when you have done something wrong, and in my opinion, there is absolutely no shame in addiction. But if the people that support Crystal continue to make excuses for Crystal's actions, like her mother or her father, or her current lawyer, they are not doing Crystal any favors. Nor are they ensuring that their grandchildren, who they claim to love so deeply, will have a safe and happy future.

No that is not what I am saying. I never said I condoned lying in either case nor is this what I teach my children nor espouse to anyone else. I was saying the person who masquerades or poses and wears a facade, who isn't whom they appear, and whose whole life is a lie, is a far more malignant, dangerous individual than a person who may lie re an isolated action. I wasn't comparing the morality, but pathology and risks posed by one individual vs the other.

Anyone familiar w any of my posts knows I am no moral relativist. I have never condoned lying--and intensely dislike deception--which is why those who make a lifetime pattern of it present such a danger and a menace IMO. Similarly I dislike having my words misconstrued. It is very offensive and disturbing to return from a refreshing hiatus from this forum and find such a blatant distortion of my views and beliefs. And worse I feel like I'm being chastised. :waitasec:

I have never excused anything by CS, I simply made a distinction in the pathology of these two types of individuals. And said to my knowledge CS has been truthful re her past and most importantly, w regard to not having had any involvement in Haleigh's sudden disappearance. And hopefully I'm at least permitted to defend my own character.

arrot:

 

[Whisperer]

I think there are a lot of assumptions going on here based on what people read. I prefer to listen and observe and read what they themselves have written to get an idea of what kind of person they are.

Constantly using words of a reporter without a source or an article is not the best way to judge the victim or the perp. What I have observed with Crystal is somebody who speaks slowly and quietly. She does not appear to have a mean bone in her body. I will stand by that unless I SEE otherwise. A little insight into her feelings can be had by reading her words to Haleigh.

If anyone feels she is guilty of harming Haleigh, I suppose there is nothing any article or observation can change that person's mind...so be it.

IMO, Crystal is not involved in this crime. For those who believe she is, carry on.

 

[curvecuti]

If Kim P. lied to the Bar--goodbye career. She could spin, and be selective, but she had to answer the charges, so it's not like she could just ignore what she didn't like and focus on making Crystal look bad. If she says there is documentation, then there would have to be, because the Bar could ask her to send it ASAP. However, the internal verification, including providing names of people who could testify to certain points, as well as the documents that WERE including in her response make a pretty good argument on her behalf. The one thing I thought she walked a narrow line on is who she represented; in a careful reading there are places that clearly look like Marie was a client. Marie is often the first name on emails, etc. That, of course, could be because Crystal is not physically able to conduct business.

What do you think about the part where she says she never "blogged" (her word for posting on the forums), when we know she did? I guess she could say she never actually typed out the words, she told her asst. what to say, but that is cutting a lie awful thin, imo.

 

[elle1919]

No that is not what I am saying. I never said I condoned lying in either case nor is this what I teach my children nor espouse to anyone else. I was saying the person who masquerades or poses and wears a facade, who isn't whom they appear, and whose whole life is a lie, is a far more malignant, dangerous individual than a person who may lie re an isolated action. I wasn't comparing the morality, but pathology and risks posed by one individual vs the other.

Anyone familiar w any of my posts knows I am no moral relativist. I have never condoned lying--and intensely dislike deception--which is why those who make a lifetime pattern of it present such a danger and a menace IMO. Similarly I dislike having my words misconstrued. It is very offensive and disturbing to return from a refreshing hiatus from this forum and find such a blatant distortion of my views and beliefs. And worse I feel like I'm being chastised. :waitasec:

I have never excused anything by CS, I simply made a distinction in the pathology of these two types of individuals. And said to my knowledge CS has been truthful re her past and most importantly, w regard to not having had any involvement in Haleigh's sudden disappearance. And hopefully I'm at least permitted to defend my own character.

arrot:

Kiki, I assure you I was not chastising you, I replied to a post that you made about those who are deceptive and I tried to do so in the most respectful way that I knew how. With all due respect you post that you have never excused anything by CS, but in my opinion that is exactly what your post was doing when you say that it is okay to lie about the things that you do as long as you don't lie about who you are. This is the post of yours that I replied to

snip~ Originally Posted by kiki the parrot View Post
(snip, bbm) You are right deb, Crystal has been brutally honest about her past failures and is quick to acknowledge her shortcomings. I think you're right, the majority of people do most likely lie. But I've learned the people I really need to worry about are the ones who lie not about what they do, but about who they are. ~end snip


In my opinion there have been many, many lies and misconceptions in this case, several by Crystal. When I read your post you seemed to be excusing her drug use by stating that that you yourself have found that the people you REALLY NEED TO WORRY ABOUT are those who lie not about what they do but who they are. It is that portion of your post that I disagree with, there is never a reason to lie in my opinion and that is the point I was trying to establish. Yes, we disagree, but I did not attempt to misconstrue your words, if that is how you feel then I sincerely apologize.