* * * Custody Hearing 26 Mar 2010, 11am, Phoenix * * *

[southern_comfort]

I'm for the best interests of the child too. Hands down. When a child has good, loving, caring family member to take care of them, I believe strongly that the child's best interests are served by placing the child with them. I believe denying a child that relationship is harmful to them emotionally.

I'm just having a hard time understanding, if I'm understanding what you're saying, taking or keeping a child from a good and loving parent or family member, because a non-biologically related person *might* be a tad better.

But we are off topic anyway.

Yes, we are off topic... and my original comment concerns a general public policy position that I would not have mentioned here at all but for the comment that was deleted. It is nothing personal to LM or EJ or this case, really... just hypothetical application of a principle.

So.. moving on.

I'm praying as I do everyday that today is the day Gabriel comes home to his family.

 

[CarrieBean]

EJ could very well end this carousel ride but she's TOO flippin'....... what's the word i'm looking for?

I don't think those words are allowed here.

 

[CarrieBean]

It's too bad Elizabeth's butt couldn't be dragged into court everyday and questioned. It wouldn't take long for her to lose it, I think. She looked like she was feeling cornered. If she had a way out of that corner, she would take it...I would think.

As far as custody to Logan goes. I would hope that he has now, if he hadn't when Gabriel was born, turned his life around. A parent doing B&E's and drugs is no place for a child either. I would hope this has all made him grow up, a whole lot.

 

[kissdegirl]

I would be willing to bet that the life LM previously led has been left so far behind him...he probably wouldn't recognize his old self...

I've never followed a case before, so this is all very strange to me...but can we discuss the way her defense attorney shielded and protected her....or if you view it another way...the way she hovered and totally directed EJ? This was so wierd! Has anyone seen this before, or can give me insight? Was EJ wanting to answer, but doing as she was told?

 

[iluvmua]

I would be willing to bet that the life LM previously led has been left so far behind him...he probably wouldn't recognize his old self...

I've never followed a case before, so this is all very strange to me...but can we discuss the way her defense attorney shielded and protected her....or if you view it another way...the way she hovered and totally directed EJ? This was so wierd! Has anyone seen this before, or can give me insight? Was EJ wanting to answer, but doing as she was told?

I think EJ was told not to incriminate herself, for one. as to weather she wanted to talk who knows.

 

[kbl8201]

well when they have the hearing april 28th they can give her an extra contempt charge for violating the custody order

 

[BeanE]

It's too bad Elizabeth's butt couldn't be dragged into court everyday and questioned. It wouldn't take long for her to lose it, I think. She looked like she was feeling cornered. If she had a way out of that corner, she would take it...I would think.

As far as custody to Logan goes. I would hope that he has now, if he hadn't when Gabriel was born, turned his life around. A parent doing B&E's and drugs is no place for a child either. I would hope this has all made him grow up, a whole lot.

In 2008, Logan's mom died quickly and unexpectedly. He turned his life around then, because of that.

IIRC, whereas Logan did a little bit of jail time at the time of Gabe's birth, the charges that brought about that jail time, was from quite a while before. I think some people are assuming that there was some offense at that time.

 

[kappy50]

Judge McVey is a smart man. I believe he did his homework. If he REMOTELY thought Logan didn't deserve custody, he would not have given him that. Bio father or not....There would have been other family memebers to grant this to.....JMO

 

[BeanE]

Judge McVey is a smart man. I believe he did his homework. If he REMOTELY thought Logan didn't deserve custody, he would not have given him that. Bio father or not....There would have been other family memebers to grant this to.....JMO

Also, if Elizabeth sincerely thought there were reasons why custody to Logan was not in Gabe's best interests, she'd have had folders full of documentation, lines of witnesses, etc, to show the judge what all the things are about Logan and his life that would be bad for Gabe. She made only a half-hearted marginal attempt, centered on two things: drug use six years ago, and Logan being in jail when Gabe was born.

It's an easy decision for any judge.

That was Elizabeth's moment to state her case. She didn't have one. No wonder she cried. The gig was up, on nationwide TV.

Now I just want to know what she'll do next. What's best for Gabe and tell where he is? Or keep it about herself?

 

[debloree]

Exactly BeanE! I'm so sick of the trolls on gabriel's facebook and bloggers that keep saying there are 2 sides to every story we'll all see some things in the end. What end? Why the cryptic messages? If you know something as fact(not rumor)show us, state it or shut up! There are always 2 sides to every story but it was decided by a Judge who knows what is going on and her history also. I wish they would have told and/or asked her criminal history while she was on the stand to be shown on National TV! Elizabeth has had plenty of time to speak up. I don't feel sorry for her at all. I feel sorry for Gabriel and all his family that loves him.

Ok sorry for the vent.

 

[Schmerty_Jones]

This is a story about a little 10 month old boy. He needs the love & security of a stable parent. Ever since childhood his mother has shown vindictive aggression ,instability & refusal to take responsibility. She has neglected this baby, had tantrums & destructive periods which could physically & psychologically destroy him. The Court has to act decisively & help to find this child. Only when Elizabeth realizes she is going to be imprisoned for life will she give up this power trip. Let's get on with it.It can't happen soon enough.

 

[dr dona]

question: people can be declared legally dead in 7 years if there are strong circumstances that the individual is indeed dead. If EJ is convicted on the kidnapping charge and Gabriel is never found- Can he be declared dead and than murder charges brought against her??? After all, we have no proof of life. Gabriel is possibly dead. Than, EJ's assertion of taking the 5th is really justified. She would not want to incriminate herself in his murder.
She could have at least said he is OK. But no- she took the 5th for very question.

 

[iluvmua]

question: people can be declared legally dead in 7 years if there are strong circumstances that the individual is indeed dead. If EJ is convicted on the kidnapping charge and Gabriel is never found- Can he be declared dead and than murder charges brought against her??? After all, we have no proof of life. Gabriel is possibly dead. Than, EJ's assertion of taking the 5th is really justified. She would not want to incriminate herself in his murder.
She could have at least said he is OK. But no- she took the 5th for very question.

I'm wondering that myself, that's a good question to ask

 

[pittsburghgirl]

One of three things happened.

1. She gave Gabriel away in spite of a custody order.
2. She sold Gabriel, in spite of a custody order.
3. She killed Gabriel.

If Gabriel is ever declared dead, she could be charged with his death. Most likely that would be a murder charge. If she sold Gabriel, that's illegal. She would be looking at serious jail time.

If she really gave the baby away, she could still claim that she had "good reason" or was mentally unstable and she would be talking, because recovering the child is her "get out of jail relatively free card." She would face custodial interference, kidnapping, and contempt of court, but if she were convicted, she wouldn't get a life sentence--and her attorneys could bargain for the best deal, given her cover story.

Clearly, she can't talk if she killed Gabriel. And if she sold him--well, that destroys the facade that she was "doing the best thing for her child." Even in the sick world of illegal adoptions, it's hard to argue that a person who sells a child to a stranger has his or her best interest at heart. If she sold him, she would not only face major jail time, but also the loss of her facade of righteousness and her sense of self (however twisted that we find it) that allows her to justify what she does and feel OK. That's what she's crying about: being in court in front of Logan and other witnesses threatens her self-identity. It would come out that she did it for the money. or that she is a murderer. Whatever she tells herself about what she's done, people holding her accountable in a place she can't escape, in front of the person she has most wronged (other than Gabriel) is an intolerable assault on the "self" that she has constructed. A psychologist once told me (in response to a question about why people lie) that people lie to protect their sense of who they are. Now she can't tell her "gave the baby away" lie, either on the stand or off, because she'd have to cough up names, places, details that can be exposed for the lies that they are. (Brings to mind the Zenaida Gonzalez mess that Casey Anthony made for herself.) And now she knows the lie won't make her most basic problem, incarceration, go away. She can't talk because she can't tell the truth and the lie no longer gets her anywhere.

So if you think she wants to "talk," no doubt she has a strong urge to make up a load of crapola to rebuild her battered sense of self and to get people to go, "Oh, OK. You gave the baby away because this father who is turning the world upside down to find his son is UNFIT. You get to go free! You did a good thing! He's the devil!" But her lawyer knows that's not going to happen so she has to sit there and take it. Hence the tears. She can't make this problem go away or Logan go away or the judge go away or the consequences of what she did go away.

I still think she sold Gabriel, so the best hope for him and Logan is the PI finding him in the home of someone desperate enough for a baby to buy one.

 

[BeanE]

Excellent post, pittsburgh. Great assessment.

One thing, I don't think she could claim she had good reason to give Gabe away.

First, giving away one's child without going through proper steps to ensure your child's safety and well-being places the child in danger.

Second, she just had her big chance to tell the world what those good reasons are. She had nothing. No witnesses, no documents, no testimony. She gave no outcry. She would have to explain that in the legal sense, and I don't think that's legally explainable.

Third, she has a big legal problem in that the only person who endangered Gabe, and did so gravely, and did so on numerous occasions, documented by LE and the courts, is herself. I don't think that's legally surmountable.

 

[kappy50]

Excellent post, pittsburgh. Great assessment.

One thing, I don't think she could claim she had good reason to give Gabe away.

First, giving away one's child without going through proper steps to ensure your child's safety and well-being places the child in danger.

Second, she just had her big chance to tell the world what those good reasons are. She had nothing. No witnesses, no documents, no testimony. She gave no outcry. She would have to explain that in the legal sense, and I don't think that's legally explainable.

Third, she has a big legal problem in that the only person who endangered Gabe, and did so gravely, and did so on numerous occasions, documented by LE and the courts, is herself. I don't think that's legally surmountable.

B... as a adoptive mother , my daughter's bio mother, didn't care if I adopted her or not. All she knew is that she no longer wanted to care for her baby. The adoption process was for me not her. In EJ's case, I think she thought Gabriel was her's and her's alone. Screw Logan. And she could do whatever she wanted too. She was/is that selfish...She may have a 4.0 GPA or a 160 IQ, but she has no common or moral sense...She could have spoken out the other day...but didn't...because her attorney said so. Right, NO....And you are right, she does have a big legal problem....but I ain't real sure she gives a crap...we have to remember that she had the mindset that there was NO WAY Logan would ever get him...whatever she may have done...she's just that plain evil!

 

[BeanE]

B... as a adoptive mother , my daughter's bio mother, didn't care if I adopted her or not. All she knew is that she no longer wanted to care for her baby. The adoption process was for me not her. In EJ's case, I think she thought Gabriel was her's and her's alone. Screw Logan. And she could do whatever she wanted too. She was/is that selfish...She may have a 4.0 GPA or a 160 IQ, but she has no common or moral sense...She could have spoken out the other day...but didn't...because her attorney said so. Right, NO....And you are right, she does have a big legal problem....but I ain't real sure she gives a crap...we have to remember that she had the mindset that there was NO WAY Logan would ever get him...whatever she may have done...she's just that plain evil!

She didn't speak out, not because of anything her attorney said or did, but because she made a choice. An attorney simply advises a defendant of their options and possible outcomes for each. The defendant makes the choice of which option they wish to take.

Regardless, if she felt she had any 'good' reasons for committing the illegal act of giving away her baby (or murdering him), at the hearing on Friday was her time to state her case, by enumerating and presenting evidence and witnesses for why giving Gabe to his father was not an option. That's unrelated to any action on her part that could incriminate her. Her attorney did not tell her not to present evidence in that regard. In fact, she tried to present evidence in that regard. But she had no evidence. She had no good reason. She had nothing.

 

[kappy50]

She didn't speak out, not because of anything her attorney said or did, but because she made a choice. An attorney simply advises a defendant of their options and possible outcomes for each. The defendant makes the choice of which option they wish to take.

Regardless, if she felt she had any 'good' reasons for committing the illegal act of giving away her baby (or murdering him), at the hearing on Friday was her time to state her case, by enumerating and presenting evidence and witnesses for why giving Gabe to his father was not an option. That's unrelated to any action on her part that could incriminate her. Her attorney did not tell her not to present evidence in that regard. In fact, she tried to present evidence in that regard. But she had no evidence. She had no good reason. She had nothing.

Hey I'm with you you...

 

[dr dona]

and, remember at the legal/felony charges EJ wanted to fire her lawyer because the police were still asking about Gabriels whereabouts. EJ may whine and weep all she wants. It's her choice. I just want her to be charged with murder if Gabriel is never found!!!!!!!!! She could have sold him to a ring of Pedophiles for all we know. THIS SUCKS!!!!!!

 

[Schmerty_Jones]

I just feel that if Gabriel is alive, the longer this battle of EJ goes on ,the more danger this precious child is in. I pray ever time I remember through out the day & the night for him to be in his father's arms. I'm really worried that this "mother",cannot or will not feel compassion for anyone, especially her own child.