Dakota Fanning movie blasted for her rape scene

[southcitymom]

I don't know, southcitymom. I will try to find a link specific to this film that talks about the charges--I read it yesterday. I don't know why it has never been applied to other movies either, but I also have never heard of investors/sponsors pulling funding or crew members walking out on other movies.

Julianne,

I am pretty sure I have heard about investors pulling out and people walking off sets in regards to other movies. Can't think of what movies I have read that about. Sometimes I think those sorts of statements get bandied about in hopes of raising hype about movies and I kind of wonder if that might be what is going on in this case.

I just don't put anything past Hollywood and what they'll do to get some press. I mean maybe this turned out to be a terrible film and so now the only card they can play to get some attention (and in my opinion, ANY attention - negative or positive - is good news for them) are these provocative scenes with a well-known and adored child actor.

 

[southcitymom]

Here's a copy of part of the federal child law. In reading it, it's pretty clear that this could be considered a crime.

http://www.minorcon.org//dakota_fanning1.html

What culture can survive such an assault on what it means to be a child? By what tortured reasoning…even with Academy Award attention dangled as a lure…can a mother, an agent, an Industry and The State permit the capture on film of an underage actress simulating a violent sexual assault with commercial intent?​

Is it Art? Can a child be utilized in this fashion under the protections of our First Amendment? Does Freedom of Expression extend to writers and directors and producers who work in a collaborative medium? As an author of sixteen books who vigorously defends First Amendment issues, I require no lectures on the importance of an individual with an unpopular point of view being protected in the right to speak freely or put words to paper that may make some people squirm, or create hand-crafted images depicting even the most vile and hateful of images.​

But can you employ a Minor to act out your creative fantasies? Does paying a child make rape okay? Isn't there a difference between Nobokov's novel, "Lolita," which stands alone as the artist's expression, and graphically putting those images on film with the aid of paid professionals using a Minor who is paid for her performance?​

You bet there is a difference. The unadulterated fact is that a child cannot be used in this fashion, even simulating a sexual act, let alone doing so for commercial purposes. In California the Criminal Codes expressly state (CC: 311.4 if you need convincing) that a person or persons who engage in this behavior have indulged in an illegal act. Federal Codes are also explicit:​

Title 18 of the United States Code governs child . See Chapter 110, Sexual Exploitation and Other Abuse of Children. 18 U.S.C. § 2256 defines "Child " as: ​

"any visual depiction, including any photograph, film, video, picture, or computer or computer-generated image or picture, whether made or produced by electronic, mechanical, or other means, of sexually explicit conduct, where - ​

• (A) the production of such visual depiction involves the use of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;
• (B) such visual depiction is, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct;
• (C) such visual depiction has been created, adapted, or modified to appear that an identifiable minor is engaging in sexually explicit conduct; or
• (D) such visual depiction is advertised, promoted, presented, described, or distributed in such a manner that conveys the impression that the material is or contains a visual depiction of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct . . ."

Next we will demonstrate why Hollywood Dollars cater to the hormonally driven appetites of adolescent boys, and why the decision-makers trundle off to states like North Carolina, a Right To Work (for less) State that actually brags about its absence of child labor laws. There is a reason films like " out of Carolina," (starring Jena Malone) "Firestarter" (starring nine year-old Drew Barrymore), and now "Hound Dog" (starring Dakota Fanning) choose Wilmington, NC as a production base.​

What message was the non-union crew sending when it walked off the set during Dakota's rape scene?​

End quote.​

Geez, I had to search for the term "child " to find this, and I am just now wondering if I am going to have LE knocking on my door!!!! Dang, I probably shouldn't have done that!!!!!!:doh: :doh: :doh:​

​

Thanks for finding that - it's a good read. The differences in the NC laws and Califiornia laws in regards to children and acting are fascinating as well.

It seems to me that any charges or case would hinge on a judge or jury's determination of "sexually explicit behavior." That's a pretty wide open thing. I know that historically penetration has been a measure of what is considered sexually explicit for purposes of statutes and laws. I don't believe for a second that any penetration took place or was filmed in the Houndog scene.

It will be interesting to see if any charges arise or if this is just more hype.

Hey - if the cops come knocking on your door, I'll tell them that you were just doing my dirty work because I was too lazy!

 

[julianne]

Thanks for finding that - it's a good read. The differences in the NC laws and Califiornia laws in regards to children and acting are fascinating as well.

It seems to me that any charges or case would hinge on a judge or jury's determination of "sexually explicit behavior." That's a pretty wide open thing. I know that historically penetration has been a measure of what is considered sexually explicit for purposes of statutes and laws. I don't believe for a second that any penetration took place or was filmed in the Houndog scene.

It will be interesting to see if any charges arise or if this is just more hype.

Hey - if the cops come knocking on your door, I'll tell them that you were just doing my dirty work because I was too lazy!

Oh, I definitely don't think they took it THAT far either.

LOL-I'm hoping they don't come knocking on my door! I've got this thread as proof that I was researching (ewww, I think there have been news reports of pervs actually using that excuse ) but I also used "North Carolina" in my search----all that came up was blogs & news reports. Lucky for me, I have McAfee SiteAdvisor that displays on the search page next to each site whether it is an "okay" site or proceed with caution or don't go there! Scans the sites before I click on them for viruses or spyware.

 

[julianne]

I just want to add that I think Dakota Fanning is an INCREDIBLE actress with loads of talent----she really is someone who seems to have been born with a gift. She seems articulate and, in many ways, so much older than a girl of 12. I do wonder, though, if there is anything that her parents would object to doing in movies?

 

[southcitymom]

I just want to add that I think Dakota Fanning is an INCREDIBLE actress with loads of talent----she really is someone who seems to have been born with a gift. She seems articulate and, in many ways, so much older than a girl of 12. I do wonder, though, if there is anything that her parents would object to doing in movies?

I like Fanning too. She is indeed precocious, and I think she is so confidant in front of a camera because she has been doing what she does since she was very young. She has a lovely way about her - a nice energy - and is extremely talented.

She has also always struck me as a normal young person and so I automatically want to give some credit to the parents there. Fanning's not out at clubs and parties and drinking and doing drugs like we see many other young actors get caught up in. It seems like her parents really do try for her to have as normal a life as possible given her career aspirations.

What do you do if you parent someone like her? I'd be willing to bet that she's the one who wanted to do this movie. She's already been in other risque and potentially traumatizing-to-create roles. I'm sure they had to take a lot of things into consideration before giving her the go ahead to do this one.

Who knows - maybe the parents said yes to this because they saw artistic merit to the movie, but maybe they would say no to a pure slasher torture/murder flick like Hostel. It's just hard to know.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

A different version:

However the film's most controversial scene is said to show Fanning suffering a devastating rape at the hands of an older boy who tempts her with Elvis tickets.

As it hasn't been widely screened yet some imaginations have gone wild and several columnists are already wildly condeming the scene and claiming Fanning goes nude in it. Speaking with Army Archerd though, Fanning's mother Joy and her agent Cindy Osbring have effectively neutralised the spin before it gets out of control.

"This is not an exploitive movie. It is real life and unfortunately this is what happens in real life. Dakota is very proud of it. And she is not shown nude" said Joy Fanning.

As for the reported description of a graphical rape scene, Osbring answered, "Do they think we have rocks in our head? You do see her face -- a lightning shot -- maybe 15 seconds".

Lynn Parrish, a spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network, has seen the film and given it her endorsement - "RAINN applauds the makers of 'Hounddog' for shedding light on the issue of sexual assault against our nation's children, a problem we see every day. It is our hope that the national discussion created by the film will give a voice to young survivors everywhere". - http://www.darkhorizons.com/news07/070115d.php

I also hope that it will give a voice to young survivors, because people are going to see the movie and talk about it afterwards.

 

[southcitymom]

A different version:

However the film's most controversial scene is said to show Fanning suffering a devastating rape at the hands of an older boy who tempts her with Elvis tickets.

As it hasn't been widely screened yet some imaginations have gone wild and several columnists are already wildly condeming the scene and claiming Fanning goes nude in it. Speaking with Army Archerd though, Fanning's mother Joy and her agent Cindy Osbring have effectively neutralised the spin before it gets out of control.

"This is not an exploitive movie. It is real life and unfortunately this is what happens in real life. Dakota is very proud of it. And she is not shown nude" said Joy Fanning.

As for the reported description of a graphical rape scene, Osbring answered, "Do they think we have rocks in our head? You do see her face -- a lightning shot -- maybe 15 seconds".

Lynn Parrish, a spokeswoman for the Rape, Abuse and Incest National Network, has seen the film and given it her endorsement - "RAINN applauds the makers of 'Hounddog' for shedding light on the issue of sexual assault against our nation's children, a problem we see every day. It is our hope that the national discussion created by the film will give a voice to young survivors everywhere". - http://www.darkhorizons.com/news07/070115d.php

I also hope that it will give a voice to young survivors, because people are going to see the movie and talk about it afterwards.

Thanks for posting that link. That certainly is a terrific endorsement from RAINN!

 

[Crafty Gal]

I. as a parent would have a hard time justifying my daughter taking part in a simulated rape scene. Dakota will need the counsellor to help her as it will bring some very strong emotions for her. I understand that Dakota was consulted, however at 12 she doesn't have the maturity to understand what this is about.

I can't believe that her mother is look at an Oscar. As a rape survivor myself, when I watched the Accused, I had nightmares and flashback for a number of night. I also believe that Jodie Foster had to talk with counsellors as the rape scene looked vry real.

I hope that Dakota's mother and father will re-think their decision.

Crafty

 

[jubie]

As a an actress she's had lots of experience with 'getting into character', surely the same is going to be asked for this film... how on earth can anyone justify asking a 12 year old girl to 'be the character' for a role like this.

Why is child illegal if the law abiding film makers of the world are able to produce a movie as sexually graphic as this??? INSANE!!


As a person I certainly have NO desire to see something like this but I can assure you there will be plenty of pedophiles thrilled to watch it, more than once I don't doubt.


Jubie

 

[southcitymom]

......Why is child illegal if the law abiding film makers of the world are able to produce a movie as sexually graphic as this??? .......

Jubie

Most of the articles say that the scene, while intense, is not sexually graphic. But then again, graphic is in the eye of the beholder.

 

[dark_shadows]

Geez, I had to search for the term "child " to find this, and I am just now wondering if I am going to have LE knocking on my door!!!! Dang, I probably shouldn't have done that!!!!!!:doh: :doh: :doh:

{{{OMG Julianne }}}

I thought that I had posted the link to the Federal Statutes yesterday. But like you, I thought that the Feds would come knocking on my door for the search! Apparently I was flustered when I realized the search words I used and did not post the link .
Thanks for posting the link. I brought up the fact last year on a thread wondering what LE would thing about some of our searches! It was said that some sites have a program that knows what a searcher puts in a search engine to find their sites. They would not know that it is only to gather info to post on a message board.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[julianne]

{{{OMG Julianne }}}

I thought that I had posted the link to the Federal Statutes yesterday. But like you, I thought that the Feds would come knocking on my door for the search! Apparently I was flustered when I realized the search words I used and did not post the link .
Thanks for posting the link. I brought up the fact last year on a thread wondering what LE would thing about some of our searches! It was said that some sites have a program that knows what a searcher puts in a search engine to find their sites. They would not know that it is only to gather info to post on a message board.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

I know, scary huh? As stupid as it sounds, I didn't even realize that it wasn't too smart of me to do---luckily for me, I only looked at the first search results page, and everything was either blogs or articles relating to the law (Thank God) I searched for "North Carolina" also because I know that the film (or that scene) was filmed in that state because their laws are lax when it comes to that. You're right about sites knowing what search terms are used to bring people to their site---it's very easy to find out by just going into the administrative portion of the site. Oh well, if anyone comes knocking on my door they can freely search my computers any time---the contents are so anti-scandalous one could fall asleep very easily, LOL!

Have a great weekend, dark_shadows!:blowkiss:

 

[dark_shadows]

I know, scary huh? As stupid as it sounds, I didn't even realize that it wasn't too smart of me to do---luckily for me, I only looked at the first search results page, and everything was either blogs or articles relating to the law (Thank God) I searched for "North Carolina" also because I know that the film (or that scene) was filmed in that state because their laws are lax when it comes to that. You're right about sites knowing what search terms are used to bring people to their site---it's very easy to find out by just going into the administrative portion of the site. Oh well, if anyone comes knocking on my door they can freely search my computers any time---the contents are so anti-scandalous one could fall asleep very easily, LOL!

Have a great weekend, dark_shadows!:blowkiss:

Hey Julianne,:blowkiss:

Thank-you so very much for your post.
You have a great weekend also.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[FlowerChild]

Dakota Fanning has been acting since she was in diapers. She is NOT a normal 12 year old - she has spent far more time with adults and working than some adults have at twice her age. She is also taught privately, one-on-one by tutors and by all reports is far more advanced than her peers going to "regular" schools. This isn't a typical 12 year old girl and she never WILL be.

Dakota is an actress, a seasoned pro, with extraordinary talent. She has a rare gift and at 12, she is just beginning to reach her potential. Just look at the variation in parts she has already played - "War Of The Worlds" was a very frightening, dark, intense drama and then she turns right around without a hitch and does a sweet, funny, family movie like "Dreamer" - and stole every scene in BOTH. Dakota is much like Jodie Foster or Brooke Shields, who both successfully played very "troubling" movie roles at young ages.

Dakota, Jodie, Brooke - all professional actresses - even at age 12. Each properly supervised, prepared, coached and directed in difficult scenes. Each old enough and mature enough to understand how the difficult scene was vital to the character. Acting is creating the character's experiences on screen. Dakota didn't have to be attacked by aliens in War Of the Worlds or simulate rape in Hounddog to portray the EMOTIONS of each character in that situation. ACTING is making what isn't real look and feel real to the audience.

I am sure Dakota knew EXACTLY what was going to be required of her in the part of Lewellen in Hounddog before she accepted it. I certainly do not believe she was forced to do anything she didn't want to do. You do not get Oscar winning performances from uncomfortable, frightened, reluctant or embarrassed actresses.

And the overwrought gossip about this movie - well, knowing the original story, it is obvious one brief scene has been exaggerated to the point of being the whole story. It isn't. In fact Hounddog isn't anything like some of the gossip rags have insinuated. The story is dramatic, sometimes dark and even a little controversial..but not any more so more than War Of The Worlds. Nor is it any more inappropriately suggestive regarding children or teenagers than "Pretty Baby" or "Blue Lagoon". And it certainly isn't more blatantly sexual, violent or twisted than "Taxi Driver". All were equally controversial in their day and yet launched the careers of the young actresses who starred in them (to great acclaim). All that controversy and "just another role" to them - both as children then and now, looking back, as adults. In each case, it seems those roles were just another part in another movie, not particularly significant in their lives as a whole. I don't think Dakota is going to be any different - and perhaps being even MORE mature (as kids today often are) it will mean even LESS.

I trust those in Dakota's life as well as Dakota herself to judge what roles are both appropriate and compelling. Obviously, Hounddog was judged to be both and filming has long ago been completed.

Hounddog - filming wrapped July 21, 2006. A drama set in the American South, where a precocious, troubled girl (Fanning) finds a safe haven in the music and movement of Elvis Presley.

I bet that Dakota, being Dakota, made Hounddog far more than just another seedy, troubled, abused girl story. Once the world gets a chance to see Dakota stretch her wings and SOAR above the ugly circumstances of her character in this role there will be no question that she is not just a "child actress", but a STAR.

 

[julianne]

FlowerChild,

I appreciate your post. You referenced Jodie Foster successfully playing her role, and she was successful, in Hollywood terms. However, she has since said numerous times that even as an adult, it was extremely difficult to play her role in "The Accused" and that she had many issues both mentally and emotionally for a long time after the fact. She has been quoted as saying she had to "black out" in order to play the role, whether that is figuratively or literally I do not know. The point is, she, as an adult, had her own demons to deal with. Brooke Shields also played her roles well, but now that she is a mother, she has said she would not make those same decisions for her daughter Rowan and that she wouldn't allow such sexualization of her if she was an actress.

So, who knows? It all boils down to personal preference on how one decides to raise their children. IMO, regardless of how long Dakota Fanning has been around adults, regardless of her being tutored (which really doesn't play into it, IMO) she is STILL a young child of 12, and there are just some things in life that aren't worth the cheap sexualization of children. I do know that there is already an untold amount of possible revenue lost by people who are already declaring their refusal to see the movie. I also know that, because of this media circus, there will be people who go to see it JUST BECAUSE of this violent rape scene of a little girl---there's certainly a market for that, and that is just as creepy, if not more, than having a little girl pretend to get violently raped to fatten the wallets of all involved.

 

[FlowerChild]

I won't pass judgement until I SEE the movie but according to people who HAVE seen it (one I know personally) the whole rape scene is 1 minute, with only 20 seconds of Dakota's face and the WHOLE scene is shot shoulders up. There is also some brief showing of Dakota in underwear and a 30 second suggested mutual masturbation scene - again showing NOTHING other than faces. Out of a WHOLE 2 hour movie people are in an uproar about what appears to be, in total, less than 5 minutes of questionable footage, probably no more visually titillating than scenes on CSI or Law & Order SVU et al. The subject matter in a few places is rated R but the scenes themselves show nothing. It's no more going to appeal to pedophiles and whack-jobs than nightly network TV does.

The story told in the movie is about a 12 year old girl living in circumstances not so different than many of the children who's cases we read about daily here and all over the news. Except Dakota's character ends up not just surviving but TRIUMPHING against the odds and finding comfort, meaning and inspiration in the music of Elvis. It also stars Robin Wright Penn, David Morse and Piper Laurie.

Would I take a child to see Hounddog? Not one under age 16. Not because of the story - which merely serves as a warning of what can and does happen and how one child survived - but because of the frank presentation of a few subjects I think I would want to be able to speak honestly in a mature way with them about and have them comprehend.

And as for Dakota - I see nothing in this movie that Dakota would not have at least knowledge of or even personal experience with. She is the same age as the character after all, and is herself, on that delicate cusp between child and woman. And we all know rape happens to 12 year olds - we should boycott a movie for merely suggesting this fact? Having sex at 12 is wrong, being raped at 12 is criminal and the movie says exactly THAT. But it does happen and if we'd be honest and stop pretending that bad things don't happen to 12 year old girls every day perhaps we wouldn't be so bad at finding, preventing and stopping it forever. What happens in the movie is based on reality and merely gives us an uncomfortable reminder that the actions should be taboo, not the discussing of the subject. Sometimes shining a light on ugly things helps motivate the permanent eradication of them.

This movie is not pornographic and it does not even begin to skirt the edge of illegal. Dakota had an independent child advocate, an acting coach, her mother and her agent (all women) on the set with her at all times. It isn't like they were filming in a seedy cheap hotel with just video camera. It was a full movie set and there was nothing even remotely pornographic or abusive to Dakota about it. And BTW- there was no "walk-out" during or related to the shooting of the rape scene. The production was halted in it's entirety weeks AFTER the scene was shot due to loss of financing. EVERYONE was put on hiatus until new financing was secured. The movie has now been completed.

I just hate when disinformation is spread - see the movie or don't - totally up to you. I am not advocating either. Just don't make your decision based on what someone else "says" the movie is about or what scenes are in it - especially if that person hasn't even SEEN the movie. People smart enough to participate here are OBVIOUSLY smart enough to make up their own minds and certainly they are experts at doing their OWN research rather than letting someone else lead them along like sheep.

 

[southcitymom]

Welcome to Websleuths, Flower child and thank you for your articulate posts, FlowerChild. You and I are on the same page about Dakota and Hounddog. The more I read about this movie, the more interested I am in seeing it.

 

[kahskye]

And we all know rape happens to 12 year olds - we should boycott a movie for merely suggesting this fact? Having sex at 12 is wrong, being raped at 12 is criminal and the movie says exactly THAT. But it does happen and if we'd be honest and stop pretending that bad things don't happen to 12 year old girls every day perhaps we wouldn't be so bad at finding, preventing and stopping it forever. What happens in the movie is based on reality and merely gives us an uncomfortable reminder that the actions should be taboo, not the discussing of the subject. Sometimes shining a light on ugly things helps motivate the permanent eradication of them.

I understand what you're saying, but where does it stop? I don't for one minute think that bad things don't happen to 12 yr olds every day because unfortunately they do. We all know that bad things also happen to little girls much younger, even babies. If it's ok to watch a 12 yr old raped, what's going to be next, watching an 8 yr old raped? I guess I just have mixed feelings about this. Maybe the scene is just 20 seconds, but that would be 20 seconds of memory I can never erase.

 

[julianne]

Exactly, kahskye. Where does it end? What more is there?

Flowerchild, nobody is saying that bad things like this don't happen to 12 year old girls. Everyone here is well aware of it. You say to not make a decision on whether to watch the movie or not based on others interpretations, but people do that every single day. You yourself are doing that by deeming that everything is A-OK with this because you have spoken to someone who has seen the film. It goes both ways.

The fact that Dakota had an independent child advocate (no doubt hired by the production company, so how independent is that), her acting coach, her agent and her mother doesn't absolve them of responsibility, nor is it any assurance that her own best interests were at issue. Adults frequently see that their own needs are met without any regard to the children in their life. I am not saying that is the issue here, but it does happen & their presence alone is in no way a guarantee that it didn't happen in this situation.

By your own admission, you wouldn't allow a child under the age of 16 to even watch the movie. Hmmm. Then why is it okay to have a 12 year old participate in the movie? You're saying that anyone under 16 years of age wouldn't really comprehend the frank presentation of subject matter. If a child under 16 would not comprehend the subject matter, why do you feel that a 12 year old can? Your statement only solidifies my viewpoints on this.

As I stated earlier, many people will not be seeing this because of a little girl getting violently raped, a little girl jacking-off a boy & likewise (no need to sugarcoat it) and many people, including creepy pedophiles, will see the movie because of it. There's no denying that.

 

[LovelyPigeon]

If it's ok to watch a 12 yr old raped, what's going to be next, watching an 8 yr old raped?

It's just a not a point of 'watching a 12-yr-old raped'. In the first place, there's no watching of child being raped in this film. The suggestion is there, the implication is there, but there's no filming of a child being raped. The point of the scene, and the entire movie, is that this child is horribly abused during her childhood and as a result becomes sexually active in entirely inappropriate ways at entirely inappropriate ages.

The film is an effort to speak out at what we know goes on in the U.S. and is reported in the news discussed here almost daily. Children are abused and sexually misused and we abhore it! With any luck at all, this film will not only draw attention to the wrongs that are committed but also inspire real children who are being, and have been, abused to speak out, act out, and get out of the nightmares they are enduring.

Although some hysterical columnists and talk show hosts would have you believe that Dakota Fanning experienced a pretend rape in order to make this move, that's not what happened at all.

This isn't a kiddie movie, it's a movie that reveals the abuses that some children are forced to endure and what happens to those children as a result. It's a Wake Up And Do Something to Stop This From Continuing! type of movie.