"Damning Proof Found"

[Wudge]

Wudge, I disagree. The police did not focus on these parents as suspects. While their investigative methods differ from ours, it appears as though they've done their jobs and their investigation has led them to the parents. They didn't START OUT with them as suspects. I think you're off base here in suggesting that they did.

The point is that they leaked info to the media. Let the media castigate and try the parents. We don't have enough to do that.

That's how LE/prosecutors who lack ethics do things. It's slimeball 101.

 

[Betsy]

I have seen no proof as to the McCann's guilt. None of us has.

However...the first rule in detective work is for LE to rule out the people closest to the victim right away so that they can determine if they need to look elsewhere and how far (neighbor, stranger, etc) I have to believe that, during their investigation, the Portuguese LE has not, for whatever reason, been able to rule out the McCanns, therefore their "suspect" status. Perhaps it is due to real physical evidence that they have in their possession--we don't know that yet. Perhaps they have caught the McCanns in a lie--any lie--that would create doubt in the mind of any detective, and therefore cause LE to not rule them out completely. Or perhaps LE just has a "hinky" feeling about them--many cases have been solved using this type of intuition in the beginning. It is LE's job to question everything and everyone and if the McCanns held anything back that would be detrimental to finding their daughter, that would say a lot right there.

I think the Portuguese LE have enough information to warrant delving into the McCann's lives even further. We may not know what this information is, it may be the rumors we are hearing or it may be something totally different.

But right now, I'm satisfied that the Portuguese LE is doing their job the best they can and haven't "rushed to judgement" when it comes to the McCanns.

Am I ready to convict them yet? Not at all.

 

[christine2448]

I have seen no proof as to the McCann's guilt. None of us has.

I disagree. We have proof they left their children alone. They are guilty of neglect, IMO. If she was abducted by another, they are still guilty of leaving those children alone opening the opportunity for her to be abducted. IMO, they should be charged with something, they are partially to blame..at this point. I am leaning towards they are fully to blame, but need to know what is real and what is not. So much rumor!

 

[Brefie]

The McCann's leaving their children alone makes them guilty of neglect, and while I absolutely do not wish to trivialize that - it is a HUGE leap to assume they are capable of murdering their daughter and hiding the body. HUGE.
One absolutely does not lead us to the other.

 

[JerzWhim]

Right now, this case has become Richard Jewell and the Olympic bombing case. It's become Gary Condit and the Chandra Levy case. Its become Richard Ricci and the Elizabeth Smart case. It's become Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse rape case. It's become the Aisenbergs and the baby Sabrina case. It's becpme the Ramseys and the Jon Benet case, etc., etc.

It's now another putrid LE/prosecutor crimetainment debacle that stinks beyond hell.

EDITED BY ADMIN DUE TO TOS VIOLATION

I don't know whether or not the McCann's did it, but I do know that the rush to judgment here is as disturbing to me as leaving one's kids alone while dining out. Both will come to no good.

 

[Betsy]

I meant guilty of killing their daughter, accidentally or purposefully.

Of course they are guilty of neglect.

If Maddie's body is ever found, and there is evidence that someone else took her and tortured her and killed her, should the McCanns be brought up on charges of neglect at that point?

I would never in any way defend their actions of that night. I won't let my kids play alone in our front yard, and they are 6. My first thought when I first heard about this terrible situation was "Well, what did they expect when they leave their kids alone like that??"

Yes, in my mind, they are very guilty--of neglect.

I just can't wrap my mind around the idea that, even if they accidentally caused her death (overdose or drowning or hitting her, causing her to fall, etc) I just cannot believe they would hide her, or let someone else hide her, and be able to function somewhat normally all these months.

IF they did this, then there was a moment in time where they had to make a decision of whether to seek help for Maddie or take her somewhere and hide her. At that moment, what would a normal parent do? Thankfully I've never been in that situation, but I would think that moment in time would be the worst possible moment you could live through--once you make that decision, it's forever.

I think I would have broken long before now. The fact that these parents are still functioning is what keeps me on the fence. This was their baby girl, for goodness sake.

Sorry for rambling.

 

[Jeana (DP)]

I meant guilty of killing their daughter, accidentally or purposefully.

Of course they are guilty of neglect.

If Maddie's body is ever found, and there is evidence that someone else took her and tortured her and killed her, should the McCanns be brought up on charges of neglect at that point?

Why wait? I think they should be now.

 

[Coriess]

Yes, I agree as well it was neglectful. I'm not sure if it was discussed previously, but in the condo they were staying in....I'm sure there was a freezer.

I speculate that the Mom and Dad might have given the kids a bit of something to put them to sleep (so they could attend the dinner party), and possibly over medicated Madeleine. (Being that both parents are doctors and would have access to that sort of thing easily.) So, in the event that she stopped breathing and neither parent could save her - and they certainly didn't want it to come to light that they were drugging their children - in a panic they hid her body (in the freezer). After five weeks they probably thought it was safe to transport her to wherever they picked, and hid her in the trunk - but as the body began to thaw the cadaverine leaked on to the trunk liner, thus cadaver dogs were able to pick up the scent and DNA was recovered.

That's just my guess so far. So very very sad.

 

[AfterMidnight]

LE and the prosecutors knew what they had, and they knew it was not enough to charge either of the parents. So why the leaks to try the parents in the media?

Right now, this case has become Richard Jewell and the Olympic bombing case. It's become Gary Condit and the Chandra Levy case. Its become Richard Ricci and the Elizabeth Smart case. It's become Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse rape case. It's become the Aisenbergs and the baby Sabrina case. It's becpme the Ramseys and the Jon Benet case, etc., etc.

It's now another putrid LE/prosecutor crimetainment debacle that stinks beyond hell.

GREAT POST

 

[CaliKid]

I really think we have to give the PJ some credit. They are a small, very poor country- one of the poorest in the EU. They don't have a lot of child abductions, but what they do deal with, they end up solving most of them.

Imagine, first of all, waiting for almost an hour before calling in the police to have them investigate your missing daughter. Add in a language barrier between the McCanns and the police. By the time it's straightened out, you have two frantic parents screaming that their child has been kidnapped. Not wandered away- kidnapped. Then the government gets involved when the UK calls the Portuguese embassador and tells him to assist the McCanns in any way possible. How could there not be problems from the get-go!

 

[Rino]

EDITED BY ADMIN DUE TO TOS VIOLATION

I don't know whether or not the McCann's did it, but I do know that the rush to judgment here is as disturbing to me as leaving one's kids alone while dining out. Both will come to no good.

I never undstand this "rush to judgement" accusation.

They are under suspicion by their own actions. The police in Britian and Portugal have done the investigative work to that end, and it took months to get there. Simply looking at all the evidence that has been provided does not mean those of us who do not automatically play defense attorny are rushing anywhere.

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal arguement and, imo, a morally superior attitude some have taken. If this case goes to trial, the actual findings of the jury will only find guilt or non-guilty. Innocent isn't even part of the equation . OJ Simpson is very fortunate that the system works the way it does.

 

[SleuthMom]

If Maddie's body is ever found, and there is evidence that someone else took her and tortured her and killed her, should the McCanns be brought up on charges of neglect at that point?

Why THEN? They needed to be charged from day ONE after leaving their kids (3 and under!) alone for a whole week while they were having fun with their friends. Who in their right mind does that?

 

[Rino]

Madeleine died 'after large sleeping pill overdose' http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/li...ews.html?in_article_id=481642&in_page_id=1811

I dont' know if this has been posted yet...

 

[twinkiesmom]

<<Right now, this case has become Richard Jewell and the Olympic bombing case. It's become Gary Condit and the Chandra Levy case. Its become Richard Ricci and the Elizabeth Smart case. It's become Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse rape case. It's become the Aisenbergs and the baby Sabrina case. It's becpme the Ramseys and the Jon Benet case, etc., etc.

It's now another putrid LE/prosecutor crimetainment debacle that stinks beyond hell.>>

Of the cases you mentioned, only half of them are the suspects factually innocent. And of those, Ricci was still guilty of burglary.

I'm glad that PJ is getting their ducks in a row before arresting the McCanns. If they had arrested them before the flight you would have said it was a rush to judgement.

I hope the McCanns are prosecuted to the full extent of the law for whatever crimes they are responsible for, even if it is only leaving Madeleine alone in a hotel room while they went out to party the night away. They are a disgrace to parents worldwide and a discredit to the medical profession (do no harm).

 

[englishleigh]

Wudge said: Right now, this case has become Richard Jewell and the Olympic bombing case. It's become Gary Condit and the Chandra Levy case. Its become Richard Ricci and the Elizabeth Smart case. It's become Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse rape case. It's become the Aisenbergs and the baby Sabrina case. It's becpme the Ramseys and the Jon Benet case, etc., etc.

It's now another putrid LE/prosecutor crimetainment debacle that stinks beyond hell.

Twinkiesmom said: Of the cases you mentioned, only half of them are the suspects factually innocent. And of those, Ricci was still guilty of burglary.



Actually, in less than half of the cases Wudge brings up were the suspects proven innocent. Only Richard Jewell and Richard Ricci were proven not guilty of the crimes they were suspected of. And as Twinkiesmom said, Ricci was STILL guilty of burglary. The Aisenbergs, Gary Condit and Ramseys were never PROVEN to be innocent of any involvement in their cases' crimes..and Nifong was flat-out GUILTY. So Wudge's attempted parallels only hold water in the Aisenberg/Condit/Ramsey realm. And I really wouldn't even say that ANY of them were rushed to judgment, either. There was just never enough evidence to indict.

I feel like this case will be different, however, because there are actual forensics in this case possibly tying the parents to the crime.

Edited to add: If Wudge meant the Duke Lacrosse players actually being innocent of the crime and wasn't talking about Nifong not having done anything wrong, then add the players to the "innocent" list. I'm not exactly certain how that was meant, since Nifong wasn't initially the problem "suspect" in the case.

 

[Wudge]

Wudge said: Right now, this case has become Richard Jewell and the Olympic bombing case. It's become Gary Condit and the Chandra Levy case. Its become Richard Ricci and the Elizabeth Smart case. It's become Nifong and the Duke Lacrosse rape case. It's become the Aisenbergs and the baby Sabrina case. It's becpme the Ramseys and the Jon Benet case, etc., etc.

It's now another putrid LE/prosecutor crimetainment debacle that stinks beyond hell.

Twinkiesmom said: Of the cases you mentioned, only half of them are the suspects factually innocent. And of those, Ricci was still guilty of burglary.




Actually, in less than half of the cases Wudge brings up were the suspects proven innocent. Only Richard Jewell and Richard Ricci were proven not guilty of the crimes they were suspected of. And as Twinkiesmom said, Ricci was STILL guilty of burglary. The Aisenbergs, Gary Condit and Ramseys were never PROVEN to be innocent of any involvement in their cases' crimes..and Nifong was flat-out GUILTY. So Wudge's attempted parallels only hold water in the Aisenberg/Condit/Ramsey realm. And I really wouldn't even say that ANY of them were rushed to judgment, either. There was just never enough evidence to indict.

I feel like this case will be different, however, because there are actual forensics in this case possibly tying the parents to the crime.

Edited to add: If Wudge meant the Duke Lacrosse players actually being innocent of the crime and wasn't talking about Nifong not having done anything wrong, then add the players to the "innocent" list. I'm not exactly certain how that was meant, since Nifong wasn't initially the problem "suspect" in the case.

I have a strong set of morals and an equally strong set of ethics. Prosecutors who toss people to the world media to be demonized are ruining their lives. It's wrong, and it's that simple. Tossing people to the media in this day and age is the equivalent of tossing puppies to crocodiles to be savaged.

If it were me, I would disbar prosecutors who did such things and toss them into prison too, fair play. And they would be accompanied by anyone in LE who also leaked to the media.

 

[Brefie]

If it were me, I would disbar prosecutors who did such things and toss them into prison too, fair play. And they would be accompanied by anyone in LE who also leaked to the media.

Let's go one further and toss them in with folks whose lives were WRONGLY turned upside down by the consequences.

 

[englishleigh]

I have a strong set of morals and an equally strong set of ethics. Prosecutors who toss people to the world media to be demonized are ruining their lives. It's wrong, and it's that simple. Tossing people to the media in this day and age is the equivalent of tossing puppies to crocodiles to be savaged.

If it were me, I would disbar prosecutors who did such things and toss them into prison too, fair play. And they would be accompanied by anyone in LE who also leaked to the media.

You're right, Wudge. They should be disbarred. But I think in most of the cases you cited, there were reasons that suspicions were brought against the potential suspects, there just wasn't enough evidence to indict. In Nifong's case, though, he withheld information from discovery (among other things he did) from the defense b/c he knew it would exonerate the lacrosse players.

In this case, however, there are serious forensics, apparently, that cannot be explained away easily. I don't think there is a rush to judgment in this case at ALL...

 

[Jeana (DP)]

In this case, however, there are serious forensics, apparently, that cannot be explained away easily. I don't think there is a rush to judgment in this case at ALL...

While some of us here (okay, me) may have rushed to judgment because they left the kids alone and we (I) hate that, the POLICE didn't rush to judgment. That's a very big deal, in my opinion. Why they did not ask the parents to take a lie detector test and clear them from the beginning, as is standard in the United States, will continue to boggle my mind to the end. Its fairly inexpensive and fairly reliable in ruling out suspects.

 

[Wudge]

You're right, Wudge. They should be disbarred. But I think in most of the cases you cited, there were reasons that suspicions were brought against the potential suspects, there just wasn't enough evidence to indict. In Nifong's case, though, he withheld information from discovery (among other things he did) from the defense b/c he knew it would exonerate the lacrosse players.

In this case, however, there are serious forensics, apparently, that cannot be explained away easily. I don't think there is a rush to judgment in this case at ALL...

LE and prosecutors having suspicions is proper and not the problem. Using the media to destroy people is the problem, a truly evil problem.

Typically, people are tossed to media wolf packs to be torn limb-from-limb so as to relieve LE and/or prosecutors from public pressure. However, such periodic pressure comes with those jobs. It's to be expected.

Offering the media human sacrifices to relieve that pressure is not only wrong, it's grotesque. No one here would ever teach their children to do such things. It's that basic

In this case, it's particularly heinous, because there's no body. There's no dispositive evidence of murder, by anyone. I've seen this kind of soulless behavior over and over and over, and it never ceases to sicken me. Call it a weakness.