Darlie Innocent? Then how do you explain... ?

[Tuffy]

oh thats right she had 40 minutes into which she killed her two kids, stabbed herself, never woke up her husband and the neighbors, and then ran down the strett and got rid of the sock.
yes i read that timeline.

How much time do you think that would take? I think 40 minutes would be enough.

 

[annkitty0630]

OK, and since this is the Darlie Routier forum, please give us your opinion of which evidence points to her innocence. We would love to discuss it with you.

LOVE IT!! Let's do this, I have been conversing with Cami and she still doesn't get that I believe she need a new trial? How about you?? I have followed this for over 7 years and I am still so TOTALLY on the fence and believe she deserves a NEW TRIAL!! I have read all the transcripts, evidence, videos, and I still can't get to GUILTY!!! NO WAY, NO HOW!! Take Rlaub44, Have a good one and God Bless!! Again as alway, JMO!! :waitasec::furious::angel:

 

[Kaiser Sousa]

So where is the proof of innocence? is there more besides two smeared fingerprints , arm bruises that jurors saw but others say they didnt, or a single pubic hair that Darlie and Darrin probably dont want the other one to know who it really belongs to. Lets hear it please, not opinions but evidence.

Kaiser Sousa





"You've got to promise me if...you ever get to the point in your
life when you are so puzzled, confused and frightened that you
feel the only way out is to abuse or molest a kid, well then,
you have to kill yourself. You have to lean into the strike
zone and take one for the team."

- Dennis Miller

 

[wonders]

LOVE IT!! Let's do this, I have been conversing with Cami and she still doesn't get that I believe she need a new trial? How about you?? I have followed this for over 7 years and I am still so TOTALLY on the fence and believe she deserves a NEW TRIAL!! I have read all the transcripts, evidence, videos, and I still can't get to GUILTY!!! NO WAY, NO HOW!! Take Rlaub44, Have a good one and God Bless!! Again as alway, JMO!! :waitasec::furious::angel:

annkitty,

I just love that you are such a kind and caring person. I have a hard time following the transcripts without seeing the exhibits they discuss. As you know I do believe she did this to her boys simply from the photos of the window and floor area in the garage and outside, I just don't see any blood, I would think that there would be because of the brutality and amount of blood inside the house. I am also thinking that no one could leave without being covered in blood and not leaving a trail. Please tell me what you think of this.

 

[annkitty0630]

annkitty,

I just love that you are such a kind and caring person. I have a hard time following the transcripts without seeing the exhibits they discuss. As you know I do believe she did this to her boys simply from the photos of the window and floor area in the garage and outside, I just don't see any blood, I would think that there would be because of the brutality and amount of blood inside the house. I am also thinking that no one could leave without being covered in blood and not leaving a trail. Please tell me what you think of this.

Hey Wonders, good to hear from you again. I guess it is just me that has the hardest time believing something so awful and I can't leap to that side even though my better judgement tells me to. Thanks for the so unreal compliment of me being kind and caring... LOL... I know where you are coming from and I completely get it. I guess I still don't want to believe someone is so capable of such a HORRIFIC crime and they gave birth and could take away life at the same time. Even though I know that many, many similar crimes takes place every day. For some odd reason this one has stuck in gut and can't seem to let it go. Same as what happened here in Beason, having a very hard time with that one also!!! Take care sweetheart and keep in contact. Keep sleuthing :angel::twocents::woohoo:

 

[Rlaub44]

LOVE IT!! Let's do this, I have been conversing with Cami and she still doesn't get that I believe she need a new trial? How about you?? I have followed this for over 7 years and I am still so TOTALLY on the fence and believe she deserves a NEW TRIAL!! I have read all the transcripts, evidence, videos, and I still can't get to GUILTY!!! NO WAY, NO HOW!! Take Rlaub44, Have a good one and God Bless!! Again as alway, JMO!! :waitasec::furious::angel:

Sorry annkitty, but I too have read the transcripts, viewed crime scene photos, read the books and watched the tv coverage, and I personally believe Darlie is guilty, just as the jury found.

I initially thought so when I heard Darlie's story and compared the difference between the furious stabbings to the tiny defenseless children with the tentative cut to Darlie's throat. When I reviewed the evidence that the crime scene was staged, especially the blood in the sink drain and the screen fibers on the bread knife, I was even more willing to believe that she did it. But the final straw for me was the cast off blood on the back of her nightshirt, and the lack of blood on the pillow and couch where she was supposed to have been laying when her throat was slashed. I no longer have any doubt about who killed Devon and Damon; I am confident the right person has been convicted.

Truth be told, I feel bad for people who think that Darlie has been wrongfully convicted, or that in their eyes, the evidence is insufficient to support the death penalty. But there is not one lick of evidence, other than her own inconsistent stories, to suggest anyone else was in that home or used that knife to kill those sweet boys. And for me, that means there is no cause for a new trial.

I know that we disagree, annkitty, but I would be happy to answer any questions you may have about how I reached my conclusions in this case. I hope you will help me by explaining your thoughts if I have questions in the future.

 

[annkitty0630]

Sorry annkitty, but I too have read the transcripts, viewed crime scene photos, read the books and watched the tv coverage, and I personally believe Darlie is guilty, just as the jury found.

I initially thought so when I heard Darlie's story and compared the difference between the furious stabbings to the tiny defenseless children with the tentative cut to Darlie's throat. When I reviewed the evidence that the crime scene was staged, especially the blood in the sink drain and the screen fibers on the bread knife, I was even more willing to believe that she did it. But the final straw for me was the cast off blood on the back of her nightshirt, and the lack of blood on the pillow and couch where she was supposed to have been laying when her throat was slashed. I no longer have any doubt about who killed Devon and Damon; I am confident the right person has been convicted.

Truth be told, I feel bad for people who think that Darlie has been wrongfully convicted, or that in their eyes, the evidence is insufficient to support the death penalty. But there is not one lick of evidence, other than her own inconsistent stories, to suggest anyone else was in that home or used that knife to kill those sweet boys. And for me, that means there is no cause for a new trial.

I know that we disagree, annkitty, but I would be happy to answer any questions you may have about how I reached my conclusions in this case. I hope you will help me by explaining your thoughts if I have questions in the future.

Okay sweetheart, School Me in what you think I have missed over all these years??? Do I believe Darlie is Guilty???? Not Yet, still hanging out there, however, I am sitting on the defense side of this entire argument. There is no absolute proof of what she did???????? The castoff on the night shirt in no way will convince me let alone the dissaray in the home. I have always been quite skepitcal about the blood trail and blood in the kitchen??? Still, there is now way anyone can tell me or prove to me there was not a "POSSIBLE BREAK-IN" that night. I will always be shocked at her statements that she slept downstairs because the baby made noise and she didn't hear an intruder?? I will give that to anyone!!! Help me and maybe I will convert??? Take Care and Help!!! Still don't believe the death penalty at this time is appropriate. When I believe she is Guilty, I say HANG HER!! Peace and Love :waitasec::waitasec::banghead::twocents:

 

[cami]

they arent online.
i was involved in prepping the case for retrial. i did a lot of the research on the forensics and pushing the issues to the lawyers.

That's too bad, you've piqued my curiousity but I am hesitant to read supporter sites on the internet and that' s all I've found so far.

 

[cami]

LOVE IT!! Let's do this, I have been conversing with Cami and she still doesn't get that I believe she need a new trial? How about you?? I have followed this for over 7 years and I am still so TOTALLY on the fence and believe she deserves a NEW TRIAL!! I have read all the transcripts, evidence, videos, and I still can't get to GUILTY!!! NO WAY, NO HOW!! Take Rlaub44, Have a good one and God Bless!! Again as alway, JMO!! :waitasec::furious::angel:

No I don't get it unless you tell me, LOl. Why do you think she deserves a new trial?

 

[cami]

oh thats right she had 40 minutes into which she killed her two kids, stabbed herself, never woke up her husband and the neighbors, and then ran down the strett and got rid of the sock.
yes i read that timeline.

Well I don't know where you got the "40 minutes" from but yes Darlie had lots of time to run that sock down the alley. It wasn't a marathon run, it was only a few houses away. And she did it before she took the knife to herself, not after.

So the alleged intruder didn't wake Darin, nor did he wake any of the neighbours but you expect that Darlie would have?

 

[cami]

i was saying what was similar is the possibility the cops and das got it wrong. obviously they got it wrong in jaycees case.
then again they didnt have carl probyn spraying silly string at a grave

Thirteen years of lost appeals tell me the cops and the DA's got it right. Perhaps if you knew some of the evidence, you'd understand.

 

[cami]

the investigative process is part of the 'system' as you called it. tell jaycee that the sysem worked

I guess I still don't understand why you are comparing these cases. The cops did a terrific job in Darlie's case. Of course it was very straight forward, all the evidence pointed to her and no one else.

However, I see that you believe Darlie was arrested and tried because she shot silly string at her sons' grave.

Jaycee's perp has yet to come to trial. Until he does, I just don't see your comparing these two cases.

 

[cami]

So where is the proof of innocence? is there more besides two smeared fingerprints , arm bruises that jurors saw but others say they didnt, or a single pubic hair that Darlie and Darrin probably dont want the other one to know who it really belongs to. Lets hear it please, not opinions but evidence.

Kaiser Sousa





"You've got to promise me if...you ever get to the point in your
life when you are so puzzled, confused and frightened that you
feel the only way out is to abuse or molest a kid, well then,
you have to kill yourself. You have to lean into the strike
zone and take one for the team."

- Dennis Miller

Oh Kaiser Sousa, I loved that movie.....still watch it once in a while

 

[Rlaub44]

Okay sweetheart, School Me in what you think I have missed over all these years??? Do I believe Darlie is Guilty???? Not Yet, still hanging out there, however, I am sitting on the defense side of this entire argument. There is no absolute proof of what she did???????? The castoff on the night shirt in no way will convince me let alone the dissaray in the home. I have always been quite skepitcal about the blood trail and blood in the kitchen??? Still, there is now way anyone can tell me or prove to me there was not a "POSSIBLE BREAK-IN" that night. I will always be shocked at her statements that she slept downstairs because the baby made noise and she didn't hear an intruder?? I will give that to anyone!!! Help me and maybe I will convert??? Take Care and Help!!! Still don't believe the death penalty at this time is appropriate. When I believe she is Guilty, I say HANG HER!! Peace and Love :waitasec::waitasec::banghead::twocents:

Thanks for the response. I can't say that I think you have "missed" anything, as I know you have thoroughly researched this case. Sometimes two people can have all of the same information, and still come to different conclusions about it, as we have. Everyone brings their own perspective based on our life experiences, our ingrained beliefs, and our "blind spots".

One of my blind spots may be that I don't believe law enforcement officers set out to frame innocent people for serious crimes. My experiences have led me to believe that most police officers are as honest as most teachers, accountants, etc., so that when they investigate a crime, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt unless I can see obvious errors or biases.

Other people deal with other blind spots, and in this case, one of the more common ones I see is the belief that a mother couldn't do this to her children. While I understand the thinking behind this, I have seen too many cases where mothers have brutally killed their own, so for me, that doesn't color my views on this case. I am not saying it necessarily does for you either, just that I do see that argument quite a bit from those that believe Darlie is innocent.

You stated that there is no way anyone can tell you or prove to you there wasn't a possible break-in that night. In other places you ask me to help you or school you. I don't think anything I say can convince you, because as I mentioned, we both have the same facts in evidence. The only thing that gives my side a little more weight than yours is that the jurors agreed with my opinion, and she has been found guilty. We both know that juries can get it wrong from time to time, but with no new evidence - or actually no evidence at all of an intruder, I believe that the verdict is fair and just.

So to help me understand where you stand, may I ask you a few questions? What is your opinion of the screen fibers on the bread knife? Do you believe an intruder broke in to rape Darlie, or to steal something, or just to violently kill two little children? Can you explain why a murderer would attack the weakest threat first, when he would have to assume that their screams could awaken the adult sleeping a few feet away? What piece(s) of evidence do you believe points to anyone other than Darlie Routier?

Thanks in advance for considering these questions. I indicated in my last post several of the reasons that I am convinced that she killed her sons, so any facts that you see differently would help me understand what concerns you have. Peace to you as well!

 

[annkitty0630]

Thanks for the response. I can't say that I think you have "missed" anything, as I know you have thoroughly researched this case. Sometimes two people can have all of the same information, and still come to different conclusions about it, as we have. Everyone brings their own perspective based on our life experiences, our ingrained beliefs, and our "blind spots".

One of my blind spots may be that I don't believe law enforcement officers set out to frame innocent people for serious crimes. My experiences have led me to believe that most police officers are as honest as most teachers, accountants, etc., so that when they investigate a crime, I tend to give them the benefit of the doubt unless I can see obvious errors or biases.

Other people deal with other blind spots, and in this case, one of the more common ones I see is the belief that a mother couldn't do this to her children. While I understand the thinking behind this, I have seen too many cases where mothers have brutally killed their own, so for me, that doesn't color my views on this case. I am not saying it necessarily does for you either, just that I do see that argument quite a bit from those that believe Darlie is innocent.

You stated that there is no way anyone can tell you or prove to you there wasn't a possible break-in that night. In other places you ask me to help you or school you. I don't think anything I say can convince you, because as I mentioned, we both have the same facts in evidence. The only thing that gives my side a little more weight than yours is that the jurors agreed with my opinion, and she has been found guilty. We both know that juries can get it wrong from time to time, but with no new evidence - or actually no evidence at all of an intruder, I believe that the verdict is fair and just.

So to help me understand where you stand, may I ask you a few questions? What is your opinion of the screen fibers on the bread knife? Do you believe an intruder broke in to rape Darlie, or to steal something, or just to violently kill two little children? Can you explain why a murderer would attack the weakest threat first, when he would have to assume that their screams could awaken the adult sleeping a few feet away? What piece(s) of evidence do you believe points to anyone other than Darlie Routier?

Thanks in advance for considering these questions. I indicated in my last post several of the reasons that I am convinced that she killed her sons, so any facts that you see differently would help me understand what concerns you have. Peace to you as well!

Rlabu44, Okay so here I go... This is difficult so let's see how this turns out. I just finished answering Cami on many questions. Screen Fibers and Knife Evidence... Not really sure how I feel since I believe there was no disturbance ouside the window and dust was accumulated on the window sill? Been along time since I have looked this one up? Knife, actually this one I have always given to you guys because I truly don't believe the cops planted this evidence, however, I never did like Cron very much and didn't trust his rush to judgement! I have always believed if there was an intruder it was for money for an insurance payoff, however, the problem was always all the jewelry sitting on the counter that didn't add up??? That is unless the intruder freaked and left??? still haven't quite bought that one... LOL I have never bought into Darlie's story about sleeping downstairs because the baby kept her awake, why sleep downstairs with 2 young kids watching TV then?? No sense if the baby wakes you up crying why wouldn't 2 scream young babies?? What about the black car seen in the neighborhood and the attempted break-in in the neighborhood????? How about the cop's son that owned the black car???? The sock has always been stuck in my gut because that doesn't add up to me??? It is just one of those cases I have stuck with all these years and I can't get it to add up in my own mind since I follow all these case and see innocence when people are convicted!!! I know you understand where I am coming from in a sense. Take Care and thanks for the Chat!!! God Bless and Peace!!!:waitasec::angel::twocents:

 

[kbl8201]

Well I don't know where you got the "40 minutes" from but yes Darlie had lots of time to run that sock down the alley. It wasn't a marathon run, it was only a few houses away. And she did it before she took the knife to herself, not after.

So the alleged intruder didn't wake Darin, nor did he wake any of the neighbours but you expect that Darlie would have?

so darin is either drunk drugged or in on it
i get the 40 minute timeline from the timeline posted in this thread

 

[kbl8201]

That's too bad, you've piqued my curiousity but I am hesitant to read supporter sites on the internet and that' s all I've found so far.

i agree with you. when i read those supporter sites i found it too unreal to believe. then i read the trasnscripts police reports, ect (and especially the autopsy photos) from the first trial and i knew it wasnt garbage

 

[CyberLaw]

I would like to actually see the evidence of innocence. Not the"spin", not the stories, not the second guessing, not the blaming.

I want evidence, not absence of, to prove to me that all of the people involved somehow after all this time(and review by Judges) that somehow everyone else is to blame, but not the person convicted.

When I watch crime programs on TV, it is always the same script, innocent person in prison, cops framed them, investigators frame them, doctors frame them, witnesses lied, the DA lied, the Judge is in on it, the DNA scientists, the evidence contaminated, other suspects "not investigated.

But low and behold the person was convicted and sent to prison and /or death row.

Gee go figure....I wonder why.......could it be that they blame everyone else, that an innocent person is in prison.

Don't think so, the correct decision was reached and the right person is in prison.

Again, I have to see one shred of evidence to lead me to believe that the wrong person is in prison.

 

[Rlaub44]

Rlabu44, Okay so here I go... This is difficult so let's see how this turns out. I just finished answering Cami on many questions. Screen Fibers and Knife Evidence... Not really sure how I feel since I believe there was no disturbance ouside the window and dust was accumulated on the window sill? Been along time since I have looked this one up? Knife, actually this one I have always given to you guys because I truly don't believe the cops planted this evidence, however, I never did like Cron very much and didn't trust his rush to judgement! I have always believed if there was an intruder it was for money for an insurance payoff, however, the problem was always all the jewelry sitting on the counter that didn't add up??? That is unless the intruder freaked and left??? still haven't quite bought that one... LOL I have never bought into Darlie's story about sleeping downstairs because the baby kept her awake, why sleep downstairs with 2 young kids watching TV then?? No sense if the baby wakes you up crying why wouldn't 2 scream young babies?? What about the black car seen in the neighborhood and the attempted break-in in the neighborhood????? How about the cop's son that owned the black car???? The sock has always been stuck in my gut because that doesn't add up to me??? It is just one of those cases I have stuck with all these years and I can't get it to add up in my own mind since I follow all these case and see innocence when people are convicted!!! I know you understand where I am coming from in a sense. Take Care and thanks for the Chat!!! God Bless and Peace!!!:waitasec::angel::twocents:

Bolded by me.

annkitty, thanks for your reasoned response. In reading, it seems to me that your head is telling you one thing in this case, but that your heart is holding out for another outcome. Maybe that's why this case is so easy for me: I tend to be a "just the facts, ma'am" kind of guy, and all of the facts, to me, point only in Darlie's direction.

To reply to the sections I bolded, I know a lot of people take Cron's statements as proof that the police locked in on Darlie and never looked for an intruder. Here's my take on it. At my job, I talk to lots of children, many times when they are in trouble for something. After all these years, I can tell pretty quickly when the story doesn't make sense. Other observers might not see why I am so certain that the child is lying, but after a few pointed questions, the discrepancies become clear. What I am trying to say (probably uneloquently) is that when we have lots of experience at something, you develop an innate "hinky meter". The officers didn't end the investigation at that point, but it certainly prodded them to look in that direction. I would be clamoring for Cron's head if the police still didn't follow the evidence to where it led in this case. They did, and there was no evidence of any intruder to pursue.

Now, on to the sock. For many sleuths who have studied this case, that is the one piece that doesn't fit neatly in any scenario. There are certainly explanations for how Darlie left it there, as well as others have theorized how an intruder could have used it. But unlike TV/movie scripts, in real life not every clue always gets wrapped up neatly by the detective at the end. It's like a jigsaw puzzle where you can't make two pieces fit, no matter how hard you try. Even with those two holes in the puzzle, I can still look at it and know clearly what the picture shows, and that IMO is the case here.

We would be in grave trouble in this country if we had to account for every single piece of evidence before we could get a conviction. Murderers could walk free unless we could find out exactly where they purchased the gun. Molesters couldn't be held accountable if the child victim couldn't remember the dates of each incident. Scary thoughts.

In most cases, including the Routier case, it is the totality of all of the evidence that generally tips the scale to meet the beyond a reasonable doubt standard. That allows for the few loose ends, and is why we don't have to prove guilt beyond every glimmer of doubt.

Anyway, that is my thinking on those items. I am enjoying this dialogue with you, and I appreciate your willingness to consider all angles. Have a great day!

 

[wonders]

Hey Wonders, good to hear from you again. I guess it is just me that has the hardest time believing something so awful and I can't leap to that side even though my better judgement tells me to. Thanks for the so unreal compliment of me being kind and caring... LOL... I know where you are coming from and I completely get it. I guess I still don't want to believe someone is so capable of such a HORRIFIC crime and they gave birth and could take away life at the same time. Even though I know that many, many similar crimes takes place every day. For some odd reason this one has stuck in gut and can't seem to let it go. Same as what happened here in Beason, having a very hard time with that one also!!! Take care sweetheart and keep in contact. Keep sleuthing :angel::twocents::woohoo:

Hi annkitty,

I really know what you mean on the leap thing, I also had such a hard time coming to realize that anyone could do such a horrible thing to their children and the thing of it is is that it does happen way too many times in our society as sad as it is.
I really wish you could come off the fence that we both have been on.
Could you please tell me what you think of the absence of blood in the garage area? I really would like to know your thoughts on that.
You really do have a wonderful heart and I will never badger you for what you feel as I do believe that you will see one day that Darlie did do that to her beautiful boys.
I need to go read up on the Beason case. I sure hope the little girl will be totally healed from her injuries and that they find who did that to her and her family.
May God keep you safe dear one.