Darlie Supporters and Darin Routier

[Dani_T]

Just because there was no testimony about wet towels, does not make it true that there were no wet towels.

There is no testimony about wet towels. Were some of the towels wet? Possibly. Were all of them wet? Highly unlikely since no one mentions finding any wet towels. Could wet towels have actually wiped away smears of blood in the sink, cleaner the counter and wiped off blood from the tap? Not a chance.

Do you think maybe the EMT may have taken towels off the boys so they could check them out?

Nope.

22 A. I walked over to the child and
23 examined his back side briefly for any injuries, and I
24 rolled him over.
25 Q. Do you recall how he was clothed?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
1432

1 A. He had on a dark T-shirt and blue
2 jeans.
3 Q. You say then that you examined his
4 back. Let me ask you: Was there any kind of a rag or
5 towel or anything else on top of that child?
6 A. No, there was not.
7 Q. Are you sure about that?
8 A. I'm absolutely sure about that.

But of course if the paramedics were in on the 'big conspiracy' that means nothing.

It's probably not possible that the police moved the towels - they were so careful not to compromise the scene.

The paramedics were the first ones to touch the boys - apart from Darin who was aiding Devon. At trial Darin insists she brought him wet towels but interestingly from what I can see he never mentions using one of those towels to try and stem the flow. Of course it is only at trial that he says that she brought towels, let along wet towels, to Darin for Devon. Back in September he said that she only took them to Damon. Now suddenly she is taking them to Damon and Devon.

No doubt there were towels about the room- you can see them in the photos. However, 20 or so towels were collected and there were certiainly not 20+ towels lying in the living room floor. Nor were they all bloody if they were ones being collected from the kitchen

I wonder whose blood was all over those dry towels?

Well I suspect we would find Darlies over most of them. Doubtful you'd find any of Damon's blood on them since he was never aided with one.

 

[accordn2me]

Do you know where I can find an evidence collection log? I would like to see how many towels were collected. Were all of the towels collected, or just a sample of towels?

Where was each collected from?

Did the State speculate as to whose blood was on the towels, or did they test the towels to find out? It would look really bad for Darlie if the tests came back and none of the boys' blood were found on towels. Seeing how thorough Davis and his team were, I can't believe they would have let that get past the jury without mention.

If it were all Darlie's blood, and no one else's on the towels, how much blood do you think she lost?

Water and blood dry. Blood changes color and looks much different than when first collected. I wonder, at what point does a wet with blood towel that has dried, become indistinguishable from a towel that was first wet with water, then saturated in blood, and dried?

 

[RobertStJames]

Robert:

I like reading your stuff... I don't agree with you about Darin, but you know this case soooooo well - you have some great insights and thoughts.

Question for you guys: did anyone ever find Darlie's underwear from the night of the attack?

Despite Jeana and Cami's claims, there are a ton of facts that *nobody* has. Facts about Darin's jeans, facts about Dana Stahl, facts about their financial situation, facts about just why Darin needed $5000 so badly that he lied to his banker about what it was for. You can either focus on what's important in this case--those unknown facts, or you can take the opinions of people who think they're medical experts and insist that obvious defensive wounds in fact, aren't. Your choice. Personally, I prefer looking at this case from the angle of what we don't know, and why we don't know it rather than simply repeating the same questionable "facts" as can be found on any Darlie web site, and in any Darlie book.

As I said, and the reason I started this thread, Darlie supporters seem unable or unwilling to consider the only viable alternate suspect--Darin Routier. No one on this thread so far has been able to offer a coherent explanation of how he was "cleared" nor a convincing explanation as to why he cannot keep his story straight. In between self-proclaimed medical experts and people who try to imply they've worked homicides when they clearly haven't, that point got lost and the thread became merely another "wounds and towels" thread.

I want to know why Darlie supporters are automatic Darin supporters. And if there are people like me who believe she's innocent, because her husband is guilty.

RstJ

 

[RobertStJames]

Hey there,

I don't post here a lot but I do know this case pretty well so I thought I would tell you what I know.

Yes, you have it correct that the imprint of the knife on the floor strongly suggests that whomever was holding it was bleeding very badly down their arm. I didn't read anything that mentioned the blood on the carpet being tested but, it is my understanding that there were only 4 swabs of blood taken from the knife. I also want to say (my memory is a bit vague in some areas because it was 4 years ago that I read the transcripts) that the mixture of the blood made it difficult to find Devon's DNA, which could suggest he was stabbed first. Also it was found that Devon's wounds were consistent with that same knife.

Also, from what I remember the blood found on the door to the garage belonged to Darlie.

RobertStJames, I'm just curious. You are going on and on about Darin's jeans. What makes you so certain about the blood splatters on them? Have you seen pictures? Have you read this somewhere? What makes you so certain his jeans had blood splatters consistent with Darlie's cut on her throat?

The Habeus Corpus refers to it, and there is no known study of it that spells out exactly what was found. Darin's story of giving mouth-to-mouth that caused blood-spray is absurd.

This is one of the facts of the case that we don't have. Whose blood is on Darin's jeans, where, and how did it get there?


RstJ

 

[RobertStJames]

<....>
I'm sorry but I just don't understand what the big friggin deal is about whether Darin was wearing jeans when he came downstairs or not. Surely that isn't your prime focus when trying to accuse the man of murder.

You're kidding. His pants aren't important? The pants that he changed his story about aren't important? The pants that support his version of events aren't important? The pants that, insanely, were *not* DNA tested are not important?

Endless testimony about Darlie's nightdress. Boy, *that* was important. So why aren't Darin's jeans equally important?

Test the jeans. That will be Darlie's blood on them in a spray pattern.

And people have got to stop insisting that Darin had no bruises cuts or scrapes because we do not know this. Nobody here has ever seen the photos of him from the hospital, and nobody has ever read a description of them.

One more "fact" that is key to any understanding of the case, and another fact we don't have.

RstJ

 

[RobertStJames]

Jaxie - she wet the towels AFTER Waddell arrived, because he told her to do it.

What's so hard to understand about that, really, it seems quite well documented that she had WET TOWELS and that Waddell requested her to fetch towels to help the kids.

Everything else is peripheral - whether she actually used the wet towels Waddell told her to get more for herself, whether she was good at using the wet towels to close the boy's chest, no matter.

He told her to get them, she got them, period.

The thing about this case, is, when you rehash something for years, daily, some stuff gets confused and actual facts get distorted and it no longer is possible to tell in a conversation like this what's made up and what's not.

I posted two articles, not in her favor, about the wet towels.

Read them or don't, I'm out of this forum because it seems pointless to have to keep proving what is fact.

Yes, it's a fact, and there's no reason to dispute it unless trying to bend the case to convict Darlie. Waddell is also the guy who saw Darin *outside* the house, sprinting across the street to get "help" when in fact help had just arrived. Of course, that part is rarely discussed since it doesn't point to Darlie's guilt. People keep accusing Darlie of not helping take care of the boys. How was Darin being across the street in any way "helping" them?

But here, it's just the same stuff that's featured on every malinformed web site. Few people want to discuss the interesting points of the case.


RstJ

 

[Dani_T]

Yes, it's a fact, and there's no reason to dispute it unless trying to bend the case to convict Darlie. Waddell is also the guy who saw Darin *outside* the house, sprinting across the street to get "help" when in fact help had just arrived. Of course, that part is rarely discussed since it doesn't point to Darlie's guilt. People keep accusing Darlie of not helping take care of the boys. How was Darin being across the street in any way "helping" them?

But here, it's just the same stuff that's featured on every malinformed web site. Few people want to discuss the interesting points of the case.
RstJ

Robert,

You might want to get your own facts straight before you go slagging off everyone else.

Darin was exiting the house as Waddell arrived... yes help had just arrived but Darin did not know that before he opened the front door and went outside. He was not'sprinting across the street' because Waddell stopped him in the front yard and they went back into the house together. He later went to sprint across the street to get Karen- something which I, who has no love lost for Darin, do not find unusual in the least. She was a nurse. His two kids were dying or dead and his wife was bleeding profusely and obviously severely hurt.

I agree with you- there are numerous malinformed websites around regarding this case. But I think you will find that most of us here are not arguing the case from the websites. We're arguing it from the transcripts and the physical evidence. One of the first things we all do when someone new comes along is try to correct them of some of the misinformation they have gotten from the websites.

You've had dozens of replies to your posts about where it could be Darin, or the blood on Darins jeans etc. There are a number of people who have been studying the case for years who have a far better grasp on the evidence than you do I suspect (Mary, Goody, DP, Cami etc) who have given you good reasons why your theory doesn't fit. You've chosen to ignore what they had to say- and so be it. You are entitled to your own opinion. But I don't see how you can then go around saying that nobody knows what they are talking about and nobody cares to discuss your theory.

 

[accordn2me]

Despite Jeana and Cami's claims, there are a ton of facts that *nobody* has. Facts about Darin's jeans, facts about Dana Stahl, facts about their financial situation, facts about just why Darin needed $5000 so badly that he lied to his banker about what it was for. You can either focus on what's important in this case--those unknown facts, or you can take the opinions of people who think they're medical experts and insist that obvious defensive wounds in fact, aren't. Your choice. Personally, I prefer looking at this case from the angle of what we don't know, and why we don't know it rather than simply repeating the same questionable "facts" as can be found on any Darlie web site, and in any Darlie book.

As I said, and the reason I started this thread, Darlie supporters seem unable or unwilling to consider the only viable alternate suspect--Darin Routier. No one on this thread so far has been able to offer a coherent explanation of how he was "cleared" nor a convincing explanation as to why he cannot keep his story straight. In between self-proclaimed medical experts and people who try to imply they've worked homicides when they clearly haven't, that point got lost and the thread became merely another "wounds and towels" thread.

I want to know why Darlie supporters are automatic Darin supporters. And if there are people like me who believe she's innocent, because her husband is guilty.

RstJ

Hey, RstJ,

You have an interesting point of view. Although it's not new, (Brian Pardo agrees with you) I'd like to hear more of your theory. My first question to you is: Why do you believe "the only viable alternate suspect [is]--Darin Routier"?

Same question, different words: Why couldn't there have been an intruder?

 

[Mary456]

Despite Jeana and Cami's claims, there are a ton of facts that *nobody* has... facts about just why Darin needed $5000 so badly that he lied to his banker about what it was for. RstJ

There is no evidence, no testimony whatsover, that Darin lied about his reason for applying for a loan. He told Okie Williams (loan officer) that the $5000 was for a vacation. That's what he told her, and that's what she wrote down on the loan application.

Where on earth are you getting your information? I'm assuming it's from Don Davis's book, but he was wrong. And, incidentally, so are you!

 

[RobertStJames]

There is no evidence, no testimony whatsover, that Darin lied about his reason for applying for a loan. He told Okie Williams (loan officer) that the $5000 was for a vacation. That's what he told her, and that's what she wrote down on the loan application.

Where on earth are you getting your information? I'm assuming it's from Don Davis's book, but he was wrong. And, incidentally, so are you!

From Darin Routier himself, who later tried to claim it was for a "truck loan" which is laughable too. What vacation? These people were teetering on the edge of bankruptcy. They weren't going to be taking any $5000 vacations.

He was wrong, huh? Well, I'm still waiting for *your* book, darlin.


RstJ

 

[RobertStJames]

Hey, RstJ,

You have an interesting point of view. Although it's not new, (Brian Pardo agrees with you) I'd like to hear more of your theory. My first question to you is: Why do you believe "the only viable alternate suspect [is]--Darin Routier"?

Same question, different words: Why couldn't there have been an intruder?

There's no evidence to support one. We'd have to assume an intruder who left no sign behind. I think it was that French guy (name eludes me) who said that every perp brings something with him to a crime scene, and takes something away. Smart guy, him.

There's also lack of motive. A dead wife and two kids who aren't going to say who killed her (being dead themselves) adds up to a nice pile of easy money for a guy who certainly looks like he needed it. What does two dead kids and a dead woman get an intruder? Nothing. Except LWOP if he gets caught.

Darin has a ton of evidence pointing at him: bloody jeans, bloody tennis shoes, bloody sock. He can't get his story straight about whether he was wearing pants or not. He goes over to the neighbors house, twice, more concerned with cleaning up than seeing if his wife is ok or his kid still alive. It amazes me to hear people talk about how Darlie "did nothing" when this guy tore off across the street! So add extremely suspicious behavior to the list. His hair is on the knife. Of course, around here you'll be assured that must have just jumped on there because Darin's hair is just all over the house. There was a black hat in the utility room, his hair again, and squares with Darlie's initial statement as does the jeans, long hair, tall description.
And lastly there's the absurdity of believing Darlie's wounds were "self-inflicted" when they follow classic defensive wound patterns, although resident experts will assure you they don't--without being able to point to a similar case of self-inflicted carnage. For an example of self-inflicted wounds, see Diane Downs single gunshot to the wrist. No comparison.

Routier was there. He had motive, means, and opportunity. Evidence points at him. One more knife slash and his wife would be dead and he'd be on death row in her place. He got lucky. And his fool wife allowed herself to be manipulated into changing her story, stupidly, and even into taking the stand, which had to have been against the advice of her lawyer. Or rather, Darin's lawyer.

However, as I said before, until she drops the nonsense about an intruder, her appeals will go nowhere. Eventually, her death sentence will be commuted to LWOP as Texas has not executed a woman since the Civil War and they aren't going to start now.

Pardo was right. And he gave Darin the opportunity to remove the cloud of suspicion by taking a poly. He did. He failed it. This is not surprising as he's a terrible liar.

But from where I stand, he's basically taken over the whole "Save Darlie!" movement, and totally corrupted it because it implicitly means "Keep Darin Out of Jail!"


RstJ

 

[RobertStJames]

Robert,

You might want to get your own facts straight before you go slagging off everyone else.

Darin was exiting the house as Waddell arrived...

No. Go read his testimony again before you start telling me to get my facts straight. I've pointed this out to you before. Darin was already *outside* the house when Waddell arrived. That's why Waddell "stopped" him in the front yard. But Darin obviously did not stop, did he? He kept going to get "help." Waddell would hardly have to stop him if he were merely walking over there. He was *running*.

You need to study this case again. You've clearly locked into a rut and are unable to consider anything other than the severely flawed information commonly available to the casual researcher.

RstJ

 

[KrazyKollector]

However, as I said before, until she drops the nonsense about an intruder, her appeals will go nowhere. Eventually, her death sentence will be commuted to LWOP as Texas has not executed a woman since the Civil War and they aren't going to start now.

Pardo was right. And he gave Darin the opportunity to remove the cloud of suspicion by taking a poly. He did. He failed it. This is not surprising as he's a terrible liar.

But from where I stand, he's basically taken over the whole "Save Darlie!" movement, and totally corrupted it because it implicitly means "Keep Darin Out of Jail!"
RstJ

Since "keeping facts straight" seems to be so important, may I point out the name Carla Faye Tucker. I am pretty sure it was Texas who sent her to her death and she was a woman........

 

[txsvicki]

Since "keeping facts straight" seems to be so important, may I point out the name Carla Faye Tucker. I am pretty sure it was Texas who sent her to her death and she was a woman........

Also, Texas doesn't have LWOP.

 

[Dani_T]

No. Go read his testimony again before you start telling me to get my facts straight. I've pointed this out to you before. Darin was already *outside* the house when Waddell arrived. That's why Waddell "stopped" him in the front yard. But Darin obviously did not stop, did he? He kept going to get "help." Waddell would hardly have to stop him if he were merely walking over there. He was *running*.

You need to study this case again. You've clearly locked into a rut and are unable to consider anything other than the severely flawed information commonly available to the casual researcher.

RstJ

LOL.

8 Q. All right. And as you came up here to
9 this location, Officer, is that when you saw the
10 individual that you now know to be Darin Routier?
11 A. Yes, sir.
12 Q. Can you please point where he was when
13 you first saw him?
14 A. He was coming out of the front door,
15 across the yard.
16 Q. All right. Do you recall how he was
17 dressed that morning?
18 A. He was wearing blue jeans, no shirt,
19 no shoes.
20 Q. Okay. Do you remember whether or not
21 he was saying anything as he came out?
22 A. He was saying something, but at that
23 time I didn't know what it was.
24 Q. All right. Did you have your gun
25 drawn as you came up to that location?
Sandra M. Halsey, CSR, Official Court Reporter
301
1 A. Yes, I did.
2 Q. All right. And, why did you have your
3 gun drawn?
4 A. I didn't know if he was a suspect,
5 or -- I didn't know who he was.
6 Q. All right. You know you had a
7 stabbing call; right?
8 A. Right.
9 Q. What did you do then as you came up
10 here and you saw this individual running out of the
11 house?
12 A. I hollered at him to stop, and then I
13 walked over and met him, in front of the fountain there.
14 Q. Okay. What happened when you met him
15 over there?
16 A. He told me that his kids had been
17 stabbed, and that they were dying.
18 Q. What did you do then?
19 A. After he told me that, he started
20 going back into the house, and I followed him inside the
21 house.

So how exactly was I wrong? Darin was exiting the house ('coming out of the front door') as Waddell was arriving in front of the house. Hence, when Darin decided to leave the house to get Karen he did not know the police had yet arrived.

And how exactly did Darin not stop? Waddell hollered at him to stop and then walked across and met him at the fountain. Doesn't sound like Darin kept sprinting anywhere to me. No testimony that he just ignored the police officer and kept moving towards the Neals or anywhere else.

And what makes you think that even if Darin hadn't stopped (which doesn't seem to be the case from the testimony) that he wasn't making his way towards Waddell having seen that help had arrived? After all he was saying something as Waddell approached, he explained to Waddell what had happened and then instead of being so worried about keeping going to get help Darin went back into the house first.

Now, what was that about me relying being a casual researcher relying on false information? You've got these grand theories based on completely hypothetical evidence and you still haven't bothered to put it into a timeline to show us how Darin did all of this- and half of it under the nose of police officers. You still haven't answered the question of how the imprint/impression of the knife was made on the carpet. You still haven't answered the issue of how the blood on the sneakers was made from someone standing still or moving very slowly. You still haven't shown how you can confidently link the sock with the sneakers in the comissioning of this crime considering that a person who wears sneakers normally wears socks and fiber transfer would be common and indeed expected. You're still making gross generalisations of Darin getting 'cleaned up' and not giving two hoots about his wife and kids. You still haven't explained how Darin did all of this without Darlie being aware of it. You still haven't explained how Darlie saw Darin coming down the stairs when he actually couldn't have ever been up them according to your story. You still haven't explained how you can rule out an intruder as left no trail and yet have a blood spattered Darin moving through the garage, ou the window, around the backyard, back in the front door and into Darlie without leaving any trail whatsoever.

Is there some wierd and suspicious issue when it comes to Darin? You betcha. The paints/glasses thing and the glass breaking thing have bugged me from the beginning. But I refuse to manipulate the testimonies of those who attended and worked the scene or twist the factual results of physical evidence which is available just so I can make my scenario work.

 

[Dani_T]

Since "keeping facts straight" seems to be so important, may I point out the name Carla Faye Tucker. I am pretty sure it was Texas who sent her to her death and she was a woman........

Thanks

Oh and by the way Robert that smart guys name was Locard.

 

[Jules]

Since "keeping facts straight" seems to be so important, may I point out the name Carla Faye Tucker. I am pretty sure it was Texas who sent her to her death and she was a woman........

Yes, it was Texas who executed Karla Faye Tucker. And they will also execute Darlie when her time is up.

 

[duffy]

Geez Robert you are dogged about this. Post after Post after Post going back and forth. I think you bring a stong arguement and have caused me to re-evaluate some things but I still come back to Darlie. With all of the provocative arguement you bring I don't agree and am convinced Darlie did it, not the other dude, not Darin. I respect what you are saying but I still don't agree.

As I was reading all of the posts it caused me to think of what it will be like as it gets closer to Darlie's execution. They are going to execute her. For one thing Darlie has buried herself with all of her contradictions and outright lies. Another is George Bush set the precedence with Karla Faye Tucker. Karla Faye had BIG NAME supporters and she truly had changed her life around and George refused to commute. The comment was made to then Gov. Bush stating he must have had a hard time sleeping after making that decision and he said "No. No he didn't". I truly cared about Karla Faye however I felt the same way George Bush felt about it. Whoever is Govenor of Tx. when the final days for Darlie come, is in no way shape or form going to not follow GB footsteps in this matter especially in Tx. Don't kid yourself politics plays into this.

Darlie hasn't changed her life, hasn't taken responsibility for her actions (Karla Faye did) revealing what she knows and as someone stated before she has posed for many a picture on death row and smiled for the camera. I don't fault her for making the best of what she has to deal with but she obviously is in denial of how her actions are so repulsive to the general population.

I predict as time gets closer Darlie will become more vocal, I think she will make damning claims against Darin, some truth, some not and will never take responsibility for any of it.

The boards are going to be afire as Darlie's end draws near. It's sad but is sadder yet what she did to her young and defensless little boys.

 

[accordn2me]

There's no evidence to support one. We'd have to assume an intruder who left no sign behind. I think it was that French guy (name eludes me) who said that every perp brings something with him to a crime scene, and takes something away. Smart guy, him.

There's also lack of motive. A dead wife and two kids who aren't going to say who killed her (being dead themselves) adds up to a nice pile of easy money for a guy who certainly looks like he needed it. What does two dead kids and a dead woman get an intruder? Nothing. Except LWOP if he gets caught.

Darin has a ton of evidence pointing at him: bloody jeans, bloody tennis shoes, bloody sock. He can't get his story straight about whether he was wearing pants or not. He goes over to the neighbors house, twice, more concerned with cleaning up than seeing if his wife is ok or his kid still alive. It amazes me to hear people talk about how Darlie "did nothing" when this guy tore off across the street! So add extremely suspicious behavior to the list. His hair is on the knife. Of course, around here you'll be assured that must have just jumped on there because Darin's hair is just all over the house. There was a black hat in the utility room, his hair again, and squares with Darlie's initial statement as does the jeans, long hair, tall description.
And lastly there's the absurdity of believing Darlie's wounds were "self-inflicted" when they follow classic defensive wound patterns, although resident experts will assure you they don't--without being able to point to a similar case of self-inflicted carnage. For an example of self-inflicted wounds, see Diane Downs single gunshot to the wrist. No comparison.

Routier was there. He had motive, means, and opportunity. Evidence points at him. One more knife slash and his wife would be dead and he'd be on death row in her place. He got lucky. And his fool wife allowed herself to be manipulated into changing her story, stupidly, and even into taking the stand, which had to have been against the advice of her lawyer. Or rather, Darin's lawyer.

However, as I said before, until she drops the nonsense about an intruder, her appeals will go nowhere. Eventually, her death sentence will be commuted to LWOP as Texas has not executed a woman since the Civil War and they aren't going to start now.

Pardo was right. And he gave Darin the opportunity to remove the cloud of suspicion by taking a poly. He did. He failed it. This is not surprising as he's a terrible liar.

But from where I stand, he's basically taken over the whole "Save Darlie!" movement, and totally corrupted it because it implicitly means "Keep Darin Out of Jail!"


RstJ

OK. For the sake of discussion, I'm going to abandon my doubt, reasonable or not, that it was not a Routier, but an intruder. For now, I'm going to go with your Darin-Did-IT theory. Just for the sake of discussion, mind you.

Your theory about Darin being desperate for $5000 is one I would like to discuss. It may provide some explaination for some aspects of the crime...but I still see that from an intruder perspective: Darin owed the money to someone, they came seeking revenge...revenge gone seriously overboard!

Do you suspect there was an affair between DS and Darin? If so, how would that factor into this crime?

Do you think Darlie knows it was Darin? Did she know then, now?

How do you think she faired on the polygraph?

 

[Mary456]

Eventually, her death sentence will be commuted to LWOP as Texas has not executed a woman since the Civil War and they aren't going to start now.RstJ

Actually, Texas has executed two women in the last seven years: Karla Tucker in 1998 and Betty Beets in 2000. Also, Texas doesn't have LWOP.