Darlie Supporters and Darin Routier

[beesy]

]But not enough of it IMO. 1 swipe on a counter doesn't make for a cleanup

Jane, do you read our posts? It wasn't one swipe. There was an entire area of wiped up blood on the counter. And as Goody said, the footprints, sink, floor in front of the sink. She stopped cleaning because she saw it was a lost cause. Remember what I said about John List? Even serial killers say the first time they killed they were surprised at the effort it took to kill the victim. This is not including a bullet to the head, of course. They are surprised at the amount of gore. Off-topic: did you see the video of the 2 men who were beheaded in Iraq? They sawed their heads off, not chopped, sawed. Shiver

The knife evidence I would have to recreate so until proven wrong -accepted

The outline you mean? I'm accepting it for the same reason, that an expert conducted an experiment and that is what he came up with and that when explained to me, makes sense.

The shirt , drops splatters, and holes, We really do need some type of explanation or better pictures of these my MTJD even with a magnifier doesn't let me examine it as I think it needs to be. Partially accepted.

Well, you'll never get closer to the evidence than you are now. Chris got the photos for MTJD by taking photos of the photos! Got that? LOL. So, you have to get to a point where you either believe the testimony and photos put together or you don't believe. Have you thought about visiting Darlie?

The holes- let me defend Darlie with her fault here she is dumb not stupid. No one is stupid enough to put holes in their shirt with no nicks cuts or wounds to back them up and hope it would prove an attack. Not even a skinhead crack smokin clown.Not even Darlie Lynn Routier

Well, somebody did it. So now the intruder is even dumber than your clown? I can very easily see Darlie thinking it would show she had struggled with the intruder. Like he grabbed her shirt to pull her and stabbed at her but she wiggled away. I don't think the murders were planned any further ahead than a couple of hours. You often hear about killers who have books on how to hide a body in their house. They do research on the computer not realizing it can still be found. In fact a member of MENSA even got busted for murder for having the chemicals in his house which had poisoned the victims. Um duh!

The bruises cannot be self inflicted someone had to bruise her.

Did you find Di Maio's testimony? I couldn't find it! I found an article on Court TV, but it didn't go into much detail. I will say this: you have 1 expert who says he is sure they were not self-inflicted and another saying it could go either way. The bruises drive us crazy. I don't know if either expert was made aware of when the bruises were there and then when they weren't. If they were not self-inflicted that still does not free Darlie. Darin did it somehow. We have thought about what the blunt instrument could be and we just can't think of anything that everyone is pleased with, or even some people are pleased with. I am not saying the experts are wrong, but well maybe they are..haha.
Those bruises come and go like a rabbit in a hat. So are they some sort of freaky medical thing?

So far both sides have a convincing argument but it is the tests we haven't done yet like who does the pubic hair belong to, who does the fingerprint belong to- despite posts here the Darlie website says many experts have ruled out all household members, especially since they had the boys exhumed and could compare them. If new crime scene evidence proves Darlie did not do it I would be overjoyed for her and her family, at last this nightmare could be over for them. At last Darlie could grieve her boys without fear of what the public thinks. If the evidence proves she did it then I could grieve the Darlie I knew and lost somewhere in her adult life

The pubic hair is a red herring. It would have to be found on the victims, or the knife or the sofa, or right with Damon or Darin for it to matter. The Mac followers do the same crap. They say a hair found does not match anybody living in the house, no but it matches Colette's mother who had visited a few months before. It's just BS.
Darlie was NOT ruled out. I told you they use smoke and mirrors. Why can't just tell the truth? How hard is it to say that? Admitting that does not make Darlie innocent or guilty. It's too small for Darin's. Devon didn't have that little whorl. Damon and Darlie did. It was too smeared to go any further.
I wish Darlie did not do it, but I have to put that to the side and accept it.

 

[beesy]

This is my post about the knife outline. I posted it right after seeing the show when it was fresh in my mind. Maybe you can be on the lookout for the show to run again.
The 2nd Attack Theory: Forum Legend???
Court TV aired it's Forensic Files Invisible Intruder episode which is about Darlie. In it was presented the much discussed 2nd attack theory. Blood evidence was used to show how probable it was. The heavy amount of blood at the end of the knife shows someone bled onto it while holding it in a downward direction. Someone who was bleeding. Darlie was bleeding and it was Darlie's blood. Her blood was there in a pattern not indicative of having used it on someone, but of someone bleeding, holding it. She had already cut herself when she held the knife downwards. All she says is she picked up the knife off of the kitchen floor and put in on the counter. She would have had to stand there and hold it to bleed that heavily onto it. And there would have been large drops of blood on the floor there.
An outline of the knife in blood was found near Damon and there was evidence of her blood near him as well. She never mentioned taking the knife into the family room or over to Damon after she picked it up and put it on the counter. Conclusion: there is scientific evidence for the 2nd attack theory, very strong evidence.
So again, the 2nd attack theory was not born on this forum by some crazed poster and believed blindly by millions who cannot think on their own.

 

[beesy]

I hope truth is revealed too. There is testimony from an expert, Kathryn ? didn't read her full testimony cause I was looking for Bevels but -correct me if wrong- she stated 8 distinctive places in the sink showed clean up. In the MTJD book and also on the justice for Darlie site is a pic showing the sink, floor and part of an upturned vacumm. What is all that black stuff ,it is darker much darker in the photos than the blood, right under the kickplate of the cabinet.

Maybe fingerprint dust. What page?

 

[Goody]

I hope truth is revealed too. There is testimony from an expert, Kathryn ? didn't read her full testimony cause I was looking for Bevels but -correct me if wrong- she stated 8 distinctive places in the sink showed clean up. In the MTJD book and also on the justice for Darlie site is a pic showing the sink, floor and part of an upturned vacumm. What is all that black stuff ,it is darker much darker in the photos than the blood, right under the kickplate of the cabinet.

Don't know. I have misplaced my book. My guess is that the photos may have been taken after amido black and fingerprinting. If so. that might be what you see.

 

[Goody]

This is my post about the knife outline. I posted it right after seeing the show when it was fresh in my mind. Maybe you can be on the lookout for the show to run again.
The 2nd Attack Theory: Forum Legend???
Court TV aired it's Forensic Files Invisible Intruder episode which is about Darlie. In it was presented the much discussed 2nd attack theory. Blood evidence was used to show how probable it was. The heavy amount of blood at the end of the knife shows someone bled onto it while holding it in a downward direction. Someone who was bleeding. Darlie was bleeding and it was Darlie's blood. Her blood was there in a pattern not indicative of having used it on someone, but of someone bleeding, holding it. She had already cut herself when she held the knife downwards. All she says is she picked up the knife off of the kitchen floor and put in on the counter. She would have had to stand there and hold it to bleed that heavily onto it. And there would have been large drops of blood on the floor there.
An outline of the knife in blood was found near Damon and there was evidence of her blood near him as well. She never mentioned taking the knife into the family room or over to Damon after she picked it up and put it on the counter. Conclusion: there is scientific evidence for the 2nd attack theory, very strong evidence.
So again, the 2nd attack theory was not born on this forum by some crazed poster and believed blindly by millions who cannot think on their own. [url="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_10_4.gif"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_10_4.gif[/url]

Just want to add one thing to your comments....the wound feeding the blood on the knife was most likely the arm wound, not the neck wound. I doubt if she had cut her neck yet.

 

[deanws]

Documentaries are real. The 911 tape was played and the operator clearly tells her to get him on the floor. It's common knowledge that CPR must be performed on a hard surface. You tilt the person's head back as it is so you start out moving the victim. You do not use CPR unless the person is not breathing. At that point, why do you care about breaking the person's spine? I'd rather be breathing, but to each his own.
Jane, I am really not trying to be a smart ***, but anything you tell me, I'm going to research. So this is what I found from the Mayo Clinic
"Before you begin
Assess the situation before starting CPR:

• Is the person conscious or unconscious? If the person appears unconscious, tap or shake his or her shoulder and ask loudly, "Are you OK?"
• If the person doesn't respond, call 911 (or your local emergency number), or have someone else do it. But if you're alone and the victim is an infant or a child age 1 to 8 who needs CPR, perform two minutes of CPR before calling for help.

Remember the ABCs
Airway, Breathing and Circulation — to remember the steps explained below.

AIRWAY: Clear the airway

1. Put the person on his or her back on a firm surface. Kneel next to the person's neck and shoulders.Open the person's airway using the head tilt-chin lift. Put your palm on the person's forehead and gently push down. Then with the other hand, gently lift the chin forward to open the airway.
2. Check for normal breathing, taking no more than 10 seconds: Look for chest motion, listen for breath sounds, and feel for the person's breath on your cheek and ear. Do not consider gasping to be normal breathing. If the person isn't breathing normally or you aren't sure, begin mouth-to-mouth breathing.

BREATHING: Breathe for the person

Rescue breathing can be mouth-to-mouth breathing or mouth-to-nose breathing if the mouth is seriously injured or can't be opened.

1. With the airway open (using the head tilt-chin lift), pinch the nostrils shut for mouth-to-mouth breathing and cover the person's mouth with yours, making a seal. Prepare to give two rescue breaths. Give the first rescue breath — lasting one second — and watch to see if the chest rises. If it does rise, give the second breath. If the chest doesn't rise, repeat the head tilt-chin lift and then give the second breath.
2. Begin chest compressions — go to "CIRCULATION" below.

CIRCULATION: Restore blood circulation

1. Place the heel of one hand over the center of the person's chest, between the nipples. Place your other hand on top of the first hand. Keep your elbows straight and position your shoulders directly above your hands Use your upper body weight (not just your arms) as you push straight down on (compress) the chest 1 1/2 to 2 inches. Push hard and push fast — give two compressions per second, or about 100 compressions per minute. After 30 compressions, tilt the head back and lift the chin up to open the airway. Prepare to give two rescue breaths. Pinch the nose shut and breathe into the mouth for one second. If the chest rises, give a second rescue breath. If the chest doesn’t rise, repeat the head tilt-chin lift and then give the second rescue breath. That's one cycle. If someone else is available, ask that person to give two breaths after you do 30 compressions. If the person has not begun moving after five cycles (about two minutes) and an automated external defibrillator (AED) is available, open the kit and follow the prompts. If you're not trained to use an AED, a 911 operator may be able to guide you in its use. Trained staff at many public places are also able to provide and use an AED. Use pediatric pads, if available, for children ages 1 to 8. If pediatric pads aren't available, use adult pads. Do not use an AED for infants younger than age 1. If an AED isn't available, go to Number 5 below.
2. Continue CPR until there are signs of movement or until emergency medical personnel take over".

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/first-aid-cpr/FA00061

A gurney is a hard surface. So they don't need to throw you on the floor. If a victim is already on the ground or floor, do not move them.
I have never said Darlie should have given Damon CPR. I'm asking for a touch, a hug, nothing more from her!

Good post. I should print this out and put it on my fridge. I know if I ever had to give cpr, I would be so upset I would forget everything. :doh:

 

[deanws]

There was also talk about a small partial print(child) being wiped off of the couch. The luminol was sprayed but it ran quickly because of the nature of the material (plastic leather type) on the couch.

 

[deanws]

Just want to add one thing to your comments....the wound feeding the blood on the knife was most likely the arm wound, not the neck wound. I doubt if she had cut her neck yet.

I agree Goody. The neck wound bled much more than she expected. I think this is one of the reasons she wanted the ambulances there pronto. She knew, or thought the kids were already dead.

 

[deanws]

This is my post about the knife outline. I posted it right after seeing the show when it was fresh in my mind. Maybe you can be on the lookout for the show to run again.
The 2nd Attack Theory: Forum Legend???
Court TV aired it's Forensic Files Invisible Intruder episode which is about Darlie. In it was presented the much discussed 2nd attack theory. Blood evidence was used to show how probable it was. The heavy amount of blood at the end of the knife shows someone bled onto it while holding it in a downward direction. Someone who was bleeding. Darlie was bleeding and it was Darlie's blood. Her blood was there in a pattern not indicative of having used it on someone, but of someone bleeding, holding it. She had already cut herself when she held the knife downwards. All she says is she picked up the knife off of the kitchen floor and put in on the counter. She would have had to stand there and hold it to bleed that heavily onto it. And there would have been large drops of blood on the floor there.
An outline of the knife in blood was found near Damon and there was evidence of her blood near him as well. She never mentioned taking the knife into the family room or over to Damon after she picked it up and put it on the counter. Conclusion: there is scientific evidence for the 2nd attack theory, very strong evidence.
So again, the 2nd attack theory was not born on this forum by some crazed poster and believed blindly by millions who cannot think on their own. [url="http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_10_4.gif"]http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/15/15_10_4.gif[/url]

I think the second attack is where Darin comes in. I know yall think I am crazy for thinking that...but I can live with that opinion!

 

[deanws]

This is just insane. You can't even admit that Darlie should have tried to tend to Damon. I don't want excuses. All I want from you is for you to admit she should have at least patted his arm, told him she loved him. She had plenty of time. .
Darlie probably WAS in a panic. She'd cut her throat. She had bled alot. She was probably feeling faint. She even says "I think I'm dying". Why did she stay on the phone so long after help arrived? Why is she so concerned about fingerprints? Put all the evidence together and it equals mother/wife/killer. The end...full stop

Yep! I think we have a winner here folks!

 

[Goody]

I think the second attack is where Darin comes in. I know yall think I am crazy for thinking that...but I can live with that opinion!

I think you could be right. It is possible it all went down while Darlie was on teh phone and if we could figure out what he is saying that is inaudible on the 911 call, we might be surprised at the words used. That would explain why the knife handle points to the family room and not the kitchen, why she suddenly comes up with the fingerprint worries, not only on the call but at the hospital as well. She was afraid of that evidence.

 

[deanws]

I think you could be right. It is possible it all went down while Darlie was on teh phone and if we could figure out what he is saying that is inaudible on the 911 call, we might be surprised at the words used. That would explain why the knife handle points to the family room and not the kitchen, why she suddenly comes up with the fingerprint worries, not only on the call but at the hospital as well. She was afraid of that evidence.

Yes...and when she is talking on that 911 tape.. !?!?!.I believe she was getting pissed....when she found out he was not dead yet! You can hear it in her voice...she almost hisses! :razz:

 

[beesy]

Just want to add one thing to your comments....the wound feeding the blood on the knife was most likely the arm wound, not the neck wound. I doubt if she had cut her neck yet.

Goody, I thought that was a given....lol. I doubt she let blood run down from neck to her arm and all the way down her hand. Silly girl.

 

[Goody]

Goody, I thought that was a given....lol. I doubt she let blood run down from neck to her arm and all the way down her hand. Silly girl.

Maybe it is a given to someone doing a lot of studying but not everyone here has. Don't be offended. I was just making it a bit clearer.

 

[beesy]

I think you could be right. It is possible it all went down while Darlie was on teh phone and if we could figure out what he is saying that is inaudible on the 911 call, we might be surprised at the words used. That would explain why the knife handle points to the family room and not the kitchen, why she suddenly comes up with the fingerprint worries, not only on the call but at the hospital as well. She was afraid of that evidence.

I will be blown from here to kingdom come if Darin was not directly involved. Once I heard about the 2nd attack, I knew in my heart he had to have been downstairs when the 2nd attack occured. The more I learned, the more I became convinced. So at the very least, he is an eye witness. :twocents: If the 911 OP didn't scream "MA'AM" right after we hear Darin, we might be able to figure it out. It's also possible that Darin ran down the stairs twice, this accounts for their different descriptions. The first time he came down, I believe his reaction. From then on, he's full of bunk. There is always the chance that he is simply a better actor than Darlie. It sounds like he says "they won't make it they don't get here" something like that. When Dani slowed it down for me, it get too distorted. I wonder why he said that Damon had no pulse Did they want LE to think he and Darlie THOUGHT he was dead? In his other statements, he says he can hear Damon gurggling.

 

[deanws]

I will be blown from here to kingdom come if Darin was not directly involved. Once I heard about the 2nd attack, I knew in my heart he had to have been downstairs when the 2nd attack occured. The more I learned, the more I became convinced. So at the very least, he is an eye witness. If the 911 OP didn't scream "MA'AM" right after we hear Darin, we might be able to figure it out. It's also possible that Darin ran down the stairs twice, this accounts for their different descriptions. The first time he came down, I believe his reaction. From then on, he's full of bunk. There is always the chance that he is simply a better actor than Darlie. It sounds like he says "they won't make it they don't get here" something like that. When Dani slowed it down for me, it get too distorted. I wonder why he said that Damon had no pulse Did they want LE to think he and Darlie THOUGHT he was dead? In his other statements, he says he can Damon gurggling.

It is so hard to tell when they are telling the truth or when they are lying. He seems to change his story to help Darlie. She changes her story all the time because she is lying...and it is hard to keep all those lies straight.

 

[beesy]

Yes...and when she is talking on that 911 tape.. !?!?!.I believe she was getting pissed....when she found out he was not dead yet! You can hear it in her voice...she almost hisses! :razz:

yeah, "what what WHAT" how can anybody not hear the irritation in her voice? I agree, all the times she was whining for the ambulance were for herself. If her throat bled all over the kitchen counter, into the sink and onto the floor, it probably scared the poo out of her. All of that "who would do this"? is just so fake. "ya'll check out in the garage" fake fake fake

 

[beesy]

Maybe it is a given to someone doing a lot of studying but not everyone here has. Don't be offended. I was just making it a bit clearer.

I'm not offended. I thought it was funny. But I think her neck was already cut because I think the knife outline was created while she was on the phone. That's when I think she realized he was still alive. So she's got the rag to her throat, has the phone, sees Damon, hisses at Darin. She could have easily tucked the phone under her chin, grabbed the knife and gone over to Damon. It's right after that Damon..Damon, Damon that she gets so distracted So who stabbed him again? The cast-off is on Darlie, but what was on Darin's shirtless back? I know what I think would be difficult to do because she was on the phone, but couldn't she have just dropped the rag? When do you think she cut her throat? Oh, you said something the other day that I meant to ask you about. You said that Darlie was wiping up her footprints, realized she was just spilling blood over and over again, and decided to stage for an intruder. That's what you said, if I read it right. So why would she have already cut her throat if she didn't decide to stage the attack on herself until she started trying to clean up? Or do you think the blood was from her arm. If it was, wouldn't that mean the cut on her arm occured during a struggle with one of the boys? What do you think her original plan was? Go upstairs and hop in bed?

 

[Goody]

I will be blown from here to kingdom come if Darin was not directly involved. Once I heard about the 2nd attack, I knew in my heart he had to have been downstairs when the 2nd attack occured. The more I learned, the more I became convinced. So at the very least, he is an eye witness. If the 911 OP didn't scream "MA'AM" right after we hear Darin, we might be able to figure it out. It's also possible that Darin ran down the stairs twice, this accounts for their different descriptions. The first time he came down, I believe his reaction. From then on, he's full of bunk. There is always the chance that he is simply a better actor than Darlie. It sounds like he says "they won't make it they don't get here" something like that. When Dani slowed it down for me, it get too distorted. I wonder why he said that Damon had no pulse Did they want LE to think he and Darlie THOUGHT he was dead? In his other statements, he says he can Damon gurggling.

I don't know, bees. It would not be surprising if he did hear Damon gurgling. Darin would have known it was the death gurgle from his first aid training. At that point the child would not have been a threat to either of them. The only thing I am sure of is that Darin's fate lies in Darlie's hands. She is the only one who can exonerate him or place him right smack in the middle of the crime. Talk about the proverbial cohonnas. LOL!

 

[beesy]

There was also talk about a small partial print(child) being wiped off of the couch. The luminol was sprayed but it ran quickly because of the nature of the material (plastic leather type) on the couch.

I think it's called pleather lol...That was Damon's handprint and sort of a smudged area which looked as if he tried to pull himself up, but then slid back down the sofa. I think it was a very clear print, but then like you said, it was ruined. The problem was that it was visible to the naked eye, but covered up with a blanket and the room was dark. So they didn't see it until the Luminol hit it and then it went right away