Dating the Photos

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  • #21
Mr. E said:
No, it was other pictures I was wondering about (as being a strip club), not the one with the vacuum and the swing.

The pics that I thought might be a strip club usually have one or two people in them whose shoulders are bare. They are looking off, away from the camera. The shots are angled up. The background looks like red painted concrete. I'd link to the photos, but I'm at work and I don't really want those photos on my computer, even if they are in the news.

The girls in the pictures, I remember that one had shorter, curly hair (dark), and the other had lighter, stright hair. I think one girl had a choker around her neck.

The photos seem not posed, as if he were out and taking pictures without anyone's knowledge. Like the people didn't know their pictures were being taken.
Click to expand...


Yes, we were looking at two different pictures, I looked through them over several hours last night and I think you are right about that series of pictures. I was referring only to the "blurry faced woman" with the bowl in her hand.
 
  • #22
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00801.jpg


The calendar in this photo is a very interesting calendar, I've never seen one like this before, and am trying to find one like it vintage calendars on the web. It is I believe circled to Wednesday the 14th. I can't tell what month it is, but if the green ribbon is for March (st. pattys day) then it would either be 1973 or 1979. This is just a guess, the month I guess could be any other color. Interestingly the girl is dressed in all green too. Anyone remember ever having or seeing a calendar like that?
 
  • #23
Billylee said:
http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00801.jpg


The calendar in this photo is a very interesting calendar, I've never seen one like this before, and am trying to find one like it vintage calendars on the web. It is I believe circled to Wednesday the 14th. I can't tell what month it is, but if the green ribbon is for March (st. pattys day) then it would either be 1973 or 1979. This is just a guess, the month I guess could be any other color. Interestingly the girl is dressed in all green too. Anyone remember ever having or seeing a calendar like that?
Click to expand...

It has to be 1979, as Alcala was still incarcerated in March of 1973, serving time for the rape and beating of the 8-yr old girl in 1968. He was released on August 3, 1974. He was definitely free in March of '79.

Good find!
 
  • #24
dsntslp said:
RE: The swing pic. I saved it so I could blow it up without as much distortion. The newspaper says "VOICE" at the top, perhaps "The Village Voice"? Next to the newspaper is the phone book - opened to yellow pages (I think). Could he have been using girls from modeling agencies and escort services as his models? It doesn't appear they ordered pizza or take out because she is eating from a bowl. Admittedly take-out can be put in a bowl though. Again, just my observations.

There is also a pattern (in rows, every other 12-16 inches, I think) on the floor itself as if it is brushed or stamped into the concrete. I would think LE has identified where this apartment is. (LOL, wish they would tell us.)

Looking closer at the newspaper it may have a "U" in a lighter color and then "VOICE". I can not tell if there are lighter letters after that. University Voice? U Voice...


ETA: That flooring may be cheap laminate mock wood flooring too though. When I look at it on the left of the pic it looks like laminate, when I look at the floor on the right side of the rug it looks different.
Click to expand...

It also looks as if shes eating with a metal spoon or fork.. I dont know about then, but typically if I order something take out its typically either in a single serving container that I would eat directly out of or its in a large (family) size container that you would then put into bowls - most often either way they would send plastic forks/spoons that you would eat with. Who knows though.
 
  • #25
dsntslp said:
Could it be this paper? Maybe when he lived in NY?

http://www.villagevoice.com/news

Maybe what I thought may have been a lighter "U" before "VOICE" is actually where it says "The Village" printed lengthwise and the VOICE printed across after that?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Village_Voice

I think it is very possible he was making contact with potential victims through the newspaper classifieds and/or the phone book. JMO
Click to expand...

I think you are 100% right -

http://athleticsnyc.com/assets/files/wes_cover_of_village_voice_large.jpg

If you look at them side by side it without a doubt looks the same - also if you open paint shop (or whatever you use to edit photos) and move the mouse over the newspaper it shows you that the color of the logo is blue, which matches the cover of the village voice.

Looking through the google archive of the village voice the first time they used that logo was Jan 2, 1969.

Im looking through the covers of each of the village voice (that they have in the archive) but no luck finding the cover on the floor yet. It doesnt seem like it would be a hopeless thing to find the cover - most of the village voice covers seem to to be covered with photos on the cover - there are only two graphics on the cover of the one on his floor are the logo and some sort of photo directly below the logo nearly the same length.

Here are the covers.
http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=KEtq3P1Vf8oC&dat=19770328&b_mode=2
 
  • #26
punklove said:
It also looks as if shes eating with a metal spoon or fork.. I dont know about then, but typically if I order something take out its typically either in a single serving container that I would eat directly out of or its in a large (family) size container that you would then put into bowls - most often either way they would send plastic forks/spoons that you would eat with. Who knows though.
Click to expand...

I thought she was probably eating cereal or ice cream. It just looks like that kind of bowl and spoon.
 
  • #27
 
  • #28
See the jacket in this picture? http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01341.jpg
I think that same jacket is in a picture posted earlier in this thread.
The jacket has white fur traces all over it as if it is from a white dog or perhaps that white fur rug on the floor that we see the vacuum in pictures we think may be from Greenwich Village. The girl has really strange eye make-up almost like that is the point of the shot/picture.

I apologize, I do not have time to sleuth it right now, sleep is a must right now.

Somebody please find that jacket with the white hair all over it. Then it might be possible to match this same girls picture to the picture of the girl with the funny make-up and white hair all over the jacket. They may be one and the same.


ETA: Can we place that fur rug anywhere besides NY?
 
  • #29
dsntslp said:
See the jacket in this picture? http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01341.jpg
I think that same jacket is in a picture posted earlier in this thread.
The jacket has white fur traces all over it as if it is from a white dog or perhaps that white fur rug on the floor that we see the vacuum in in pictures we think may be from Greenwich Village. The girl has really strange eye make-up almost like that is the point of the shot/picture.

I apologize, I do not have time to sleuth it right now, sleep is a must right now.

Somebody please find that jacket with the white hair all over it. Then it might be possible to match this same girls picture to the picture of the girl with the funny make-up and white hair all over the jacket. They may be one and the same.


ETA: Can we place that fur rug anywhere besides NY?
Click to expand...

This one?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/44.html

I don't see a coat in the picture with the girl with the eye makeup.
 
  • #30
carbuff said:
This one?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/44.html
Click to expand...
Yes! Same coat? No button on the upper right (our left) just under the collar although to me it may look like it has been removed. Actually, that section of the coat does not show in the Seattle Times pic, just under the collar, it is out of view.

What about the remnants of the curls in the pic with the pony tail? Her hair is not naturally curly...

No, the girl with the hair on the jacket has bangs.

Thank you for finding the picture Carbuff.
G'night.
 
  • #31
dsntslp said:
Yes! Same coat? No button on the upper right (our left) just under the collar although to me it may look like it has been removed. Actually, that section of the coat does not show in the Seattle Times pic, just under the collar, it is out of view.
Click to expand...


That is a US Navy Pea coat. We have 2 here. One from WWII which is much heavier wool than the one issued to my husband in 1977. Other than the weight they look virtually the same even though they are 30 years apart in age.

And my college aged son has worn his Grandfathers pea coat (over 60 years old) every winter since 2005. The thing wears like iron.
 
  • #32
Thanks Petchie.

Do you think it is the same coat in both pictures?
 
  • #33
carbuff said:
This one?

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/44.html

I don't see a coat in the picture with the girl with the eye makeup.
Click to expand...
In your link here, this same girl has a coat draped around her shoulders and the coat collar has white hairs all over it. Like hair from that rug we see in the vacuum pic or hair from a dog.

And in this picture there is a coat draped behind the girl. http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/01341.jpg

Also, girl with glasses and coat draped behind her, see the white hairs on her brown sweater? (Which looks more like it might be a mans sweater to me, btw.)

Just trying to separate Greenwich Village pics out so we can try to establish some sort of time frame on at least some of the pictures.
If anybody sees any evidence of that white fur rug in any pictures beside Greenwich, that would lead us to believe he had that rug for other time periods, please do post it so I can drop this line of investigation.
 
  • #34
Impossible to tell. It is the same style, but pea coats have been fashionable on and off for years. Usually the buttons are the giveaway. My knock off pea coat that I bought has silver buttons.

I know the lighter USN one my son wears (his dads) has the heavy plastic buttons with the anchor on them, not sure what buttons my FIL's coat has. Will have hime check since both coats are at school with him.

I cannot see the buttons on the one coat to compare the buttons.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Navy_p_coat_wiki.jpg
 
  • #35
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/46.html Album is Surrealistic Pillow- the second album by American psychedelic rock band Jefferson Airplane, released in February 1967.

Same Girl http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/47.html Same wooden box behind her

Which is in the same apartment as the girl with the coat over her shoulders http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/44.html Same box again


and again looks like the same apartment http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/50.html same stereo

And then this looks like the same door http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/48.html

And again the same apartment furniture http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/57.html


and the last one I can see in the same apartment http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/56.html
 
  • #36
  • #37
dsntslp said:
Thank you Petchie,
The only link/pic I question is the last one:
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/56.html

Only because if I look at the background features in shadow, the way they are in the bookcase/shutter in a down position and a small door to the left etc that we see in Greenwich pic's with the the swing it seems to match.
Click to expand...

I thought the same until I realized it is actually the same girl as http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/57.html (shirt matches) and the same chest of drawers in the background as http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/photogalleries/localnews2011323273/47.html
 
  • #38
I had a similar calendar one year in the 1980s. IIRC it was a store giveaway and you slid the marker over the date. The one in the photo looks fairly useless for writing on because its colors are so dark.

There's luggage on the right side of the photo: a blue bag that looks like one my mom still has from the 1970s, a suitcase with a tie-on airline (or bus line?) tag, a black leather or vinyl jacket, and a white plastic drawstring bag with some logo on it that I can't make out. Maybe this photo was taken right after the girl in the photo arrived at the location.

ETA: This photo. http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00801.jpg
 
  • #39
tatertot said:
I had a similar calendar one year in the 1980s. IIRC it was a store giveaway and you slid the marker over the date. The one in the photo looks fairly useless for writing on because its colors are so dark.

There's luggage on the right side of the photo: a blue bag that looks like one my mom still has from the 1970s, a suitcase with a tie-on airline (or bus line?) tag, a black leather or vinyl jacket, and a white plastic drawstring bag with some logo on it that I can't make out. Maybe this photo was taken right after the girl in the photo arrived at the location.

ETA: This photo. http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00801.jpg
Click to expand...

Is that a jacket? It looks like a pair of fur-lined gloves or mittens to me -- jackets don't usually have those little white tags in the sleeves. But I think you're right that she just arrived. She hasn't been there for long -- only one cigarette in the ashtray and the drink on the shelf beside her, next to the calendar, is mostly full. (Looks like a beer in a glass mug.)
 
  • #40
Carbuff, you're right, those must be gloves with the tags in them. And while it's probably insignificant, she's using a small plate or saucer instead of a real ashtray, which would have notches molded into it to rest cigarettes on.

The orange tweed armchair looks pretty commonplace.

http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00801.jpg

*

Thanks to the vacuum afficionados at Vacuumland.org, we have an I.D. on the sweeper in this photo: http://cnnnancygrace.files.wordpress.com/2010/03/00123.jpg

It is a Hoover Convertible Special Model 589 in "dusky lavender" and made from 1969 to 1971. Here's the thread if you want to see how they identified it (and as I posted there, I'm beyond impressed.)

http://www.vacuumland.org/TD/THREADS/VINTAGE/8412.htm?4
 
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