DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #16

[BondGirl]

I doubt VP Biden is keeping tabs on this. He lives in another world with one of the world's most impermeable security perimeters. This crime had nothing to do with him, except for proximity. It's not like they could see each others' houses. I can see why the Australian ambassador would keep tabs - his house is very close and, although they have more stringent security and Secret Service protection, they aren't as isolated from the neighborhood as the VP. Biden's house is set back on the grounds of the Naval Observatory, behind high fences and guard houses, snipers on the roof and heavily armed guards everywhere. The naval observatory is across Massachusetts Avenue (a main thoroughfare), which is itself separated from the S house by other homes and a good-sized park area with tall trees.

The proximity to the Biden house has been way over-stated IMO by MSM, looking for a "hook". Just like calling the crime the "Mansion Murders". The S family lived in a big, beautiful home, but it is not a mansion. I hate that MSM feels the need to sensationalize these crimes.

Actually this case has hit home for DC's power elite. Everyone is talking about this, and wants justice. There are a lot of things on Biden's radar- this may not be at the top of the list but it definitely is on the radar.

 

[MyBelle]

Right. I remember that case. But he told his wife he was in medical school and would soon be graduating. And he had dropped out, IIRC. That was a total massive lie. He was living a totally fraudulent life. I am not sure that what we know about JW equates with that. He exaggerated a few times on his win/loss records. But he was, in fact, racing and competing and had several top five wins. It is not like he was a total fraud, like the person he was being compared to, above.JMO

If you are referring to the Mark Hacking case, he wasn't a total fraud. He had a job but exaggerated his educational accomplishments to family and friends. That's very similar to what JW has done. Personality disorders can lead to all kinds of crime once the lies start to unravel.

Hacking escalated his lies and claimed he had been accepted to medical school in North Carolina. He and his wife, Lori were planning to move to N.C. when Lori went missing. He finally admitted his lies and that he killed Lori to his brothers. The murders in this case happened within weeks of JW's being hired as SS' driver.

J.W.'s low profile now might very well be due to his family restraining him from making himself an even bigger target than he's already made by lying to investigators.

JMO

 

[rkf]

Occam's Razor

I'm curious how Occam's Razor handles coincidence. Isn't deciding two contemporaneous events are unrelated an assumption? There is a difference between assumptions and facts, so the best hypothesis would have the fewest assumptions. Does the number of facts drawn into the equation have any effect? I'd love to see how others would apply this principle to this crime.

 

[rkf]

If you are referring to the Mark Hacking case, he wasn't a total fraud. He had a job but exaggerated his educational accomplishments to family and friends. That's very similar to what JW has done. Personality disorders can lead to all kinds of crime once the lies start to unravel.

Hacking escalated his lies and claimed he had been accepted to medical school in North Carolina. He and his wife, Lori were planning to move to N.C. when Lori went missing. He finally admitted his lies and that he killed Lori to his brothers. The murders in this case happened within weeks of JW's being hired as SS' driver.

J.W.'s low profile now might very well be due to his family restraining him from making himself an even bigger target than he's already made by lying to investigators.

JMO

There was another guy who did something similar - he was a DJ in a midwestern city. Told his wife he was accepted at Harvard business school, so they moved to Boston. He poisoned her to death with antifreeze. He did take a computer class in Boston, but was not a Harvard student in anything. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28583944/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/death-deception/#.VZmHdxNViko

 

[DexterMorgan]

I doubt VP Biden is keeping tabs on this. He lives in another world with one of the world's most impermeable security perimeters. This crime had nothing to do with him, except for proximity. It's not like they could see each others' houses. I can see why the Australian ambassador would keep tabs - his house is very close and, although they have more stringent security and Secret Service protection, they aren't as isolated from the neighborhood as the VP. Biden's house is set back on the grounds of the Naval Observatory, behind high fences and guard houses, snipers on the roof and heavily armed guards everywhere. The naval observatory is across Massachusetts Avenue (a main thoroughfare), which is itself separated from the S house by other homes and a good-sized park area with tall trees.

The proximity to the Biden house has been way over-stated IMO by MSM, looking for a "hook". Just like calling the crime the "Mansion Murders". The S family lived in a big, beautiful home, but it is not a mansion. I hate that MSM feels the need to sensationalize these crimes.

Prominent couple's home getting invaded with 4 deaths taking place in the safe neighborhood of dc's elite. I will like to think that rich constituents and politicians are all keeping tabs on this. But since dw was a former employee; Then maybe people feel like there is no worries. But i doubt that. People are scared that this can become routine from criminals that live not too far from them.

 

[CoreyRocks]

I am still fairly new to this excellent site. I've had to look up most of the acronyms and have learned so much tech lingo/shorthand since joining. I think I may be getting up to speed.

Not to sound naive but people can say anything on the Internet and that doesn't make it so. Also media puts their own spin/slant on things imho.

So my question is ARE things different "on the ground " in DC...and particularly in the area ... meaning if we lived close by we'd know more. I know someone was at the hearing Thursday and Thank YOU btw for going even though it was a bust. I don't think it was a waste of your time, Nikki, I believe, was your name. I know DW was there but did you get a look at him ... I sense nothing behind his eyes .. like the AZ shooter, and Fort Hood shooter, a total look of depravity behind the eyes ... absolutely evil.

So just things that make me go 'hmmmmm.........

 

[BondGirl]

I am still fairly new to this excellent site. I've had to look up most of the acronyms and have learned so much tech lingo/shorthand since joining. I think I may be getting up to speed.

Not to sound naive but people can say anything on the Internet and that doesn't make it so. Also media puts their own spin/slant on things imho.

So my question is ARE things different "on the ground " in DC...and particularly in the area ... meaning if we lived close by we'd know more. I know someone was at the hearing Thursday and Thank YOU btw for going even though it was a bust. I don't think it was a waste of your time, Nikki, I believe, was your name. I know DW was there but did you get a look at him ... I sense nothing behind his eyes .. like the AZ shooter, and Fort Hood shooter, a total look of depravity behind the eyes ... absolutely evil.

So just things that make me go 'hmmmmm.........

I live in DC and this site has the most info, so unfortunately there isn't more info "on the ground".

 

[Bootsctr]

Occam's Razor

I'm curious how Occam's Razor handles coincidence. Isn't deciding two contemporaneous events are unrelated an assumption? There is a difference between assumptions and facts, so the best hypothesis would have the fewest assumptions. Does the number of facts drawn into the equation have any effect? I'd love to see how others would apply this principle to this crime.

Excellent question, and I am by far the least qualified poster to give an answer. Hoping OCB might jump back on and give us her thoughts. As far as my thinking goes, I have to go with TexMex's explanation that it is possible Wint had cased Mr. S's house, had a need for vengeance or retaliation for the past with him, broke in during the day and quickly subdued 2 women and a 10 y/o child with a knife. I don't think Mrs. S would necessarily know the combinations to the safe. So, Wint thinking he's pretty hot stuff for breaking in and controlling 3 people so easily, decides he can handle Mr. S too because he wants what is in those safes. He's greedy. He's wanting them to go make withdrawals for MORE cash when Mr. S uses the $40,000 as a bargaining chip to buy more time and hopefully save their lives.

I'm wondering how often Wint rode the bus or if he just noticed Mrs. F at the same bus stop quite often. I think he caught on that Mrs. F was Mr. S's housekeeper and he knew her schedule.

I know that probably doesn't answer your question properly. Just think the fewer people involved the more money Wint would have to himself. I just don't think Wint needed specific information from JW or Nelly to commit this crime. Clearly he had help after the fact, and we cannot discuss those names because they were never published, say for one and that is still off limits.

And just so I can better understand your question, what are the two contemporaneous events to which you are eluding?

 

[Bootsctr]

Excellent question, and I am by far the least qualified poster to give an answer. Hoping OCB might jump back on and give us her thoughts. As far as my thinking goes, I have to go with TexMex's explanation that it is possible Wint had cased Mr. S's house, had a need for vengeance or retaliation for the past with him, broke in during the day and quickly subdued 2 women and a 10 y/o child with a knife. I don't think Mrs. S would necessarily know the combinations to the safe. So, Wint thinking he's pretty hot stuff for breaking in and controlling 3 people so easily, decides he can handle Mr. S too because he wants what is in those safes. He's greedy. He's wanting them to go make withdrawals for MORE cash when Mr. S uses the $40,000 as a bargaining chip to buy more time and hopefully save their lives.

I'm wondering how often Wint rode the bus or if he just noticed Mrs. F at the same bus stop quite often. I think he caught on that Mrs. F was Mr. S's housekeeper and he knew her schedule.

I know that probably doesn't answer your question properly. Just think the fewer people involved the more money Wint would have to himself. I just don't think Wint needed specific information from JW or Nelly to commit this crime. Clearly he had help after the fact, and we cannot discuss those names because they were never published, say for one and that is still off limits.

And just so I can better understand your question, what are the two contemporaneous events to which you are eluding?

ETA: I realize I just made a bunch of assumptions and no facts, other than we know Wint was a former employee. I need a fact list... :doh:

I don't know why I am quoting myself.

 

[CoreyRocks]

He's greedy. He's wanting them to go make withdrawals for MORE cash when Ms the $40,000 as a bargaining chip to buy more time and hopefully save their lives.
I know that probably doesn't answer your question properly. Just think the fewer people involved the more money Wint.
Quote

In the flurry of phone calls I thought it was stated SS could have been calling for much more money ... to no avail .. I can't recall the prior thread number. I've read alot if not all of them the last week or so. I also remember reading the police were looking through papers in the house re: credit cards, wire account numbers etc... anyone know where this info is?

 

[DexterMorgan]

They were neighbors though. Dw and jw.

 

[rkf]

Excellent question, and I am by far the least qualified poster to give an answer. Hoping OCB might jump back on and give us her thoughts. As far as my thinking goes, I have to go with TexMex's explanation that it is possible Wint had cased Mr. S's house, had a need for vengeance or retaliation for the past with him, broke in during the day and quickly subdued 2 women and a 10 y/o child with a knife. I don't think Mrs. S would necessarily know the combinations to the safe. So, Wint thinking he's pretty hot stuff for breaking in and controlling 3 people so easily, decides he can handle Mr. S too because he wants what is in those safes. He's greedy. He's wanting them to go make withdrawals for MORE cash when Mr. S uses the $40,000 as a bargaining chip to buy more time and hopefully save their lives.

I'm wondering how often Wint rode the bus or if he just noticed Mrs. F at the same bus stop quite often. I think he caught on that Mrs. F was Mr. S's housekeeper and he knew her schedule.

I know that probably doesn't answer your question properly. Just think the fewer people involved the more money Wint would have to himself. I just don't think Wint needed specific information from JW or Nelly to commit this crime. Clearly he had help after the fact, and we cannot discuss those names because they were never published, say for one and that is still off limits.

And just so I can better understand your question, what are the two contemporaneous events to which you are eluding?

TY for responding! I didn't have any two events/facts in mind, but just to pick 2 JW's hiring and within 2 months, 4 people are murdered in the home. That could be a coincidence or related, but deciding one or the other, without knowing, is an assumption.

 

[rkf]

I am still fairly new to this excellent site. I've had to look up most of the acronyms and have learned so much tech lingo/shorthand since joining. I think I may be getting up to speed.

Not to sound naive but people can say anything on the Internet and that doesn't make it so. Also media puts their own spin/slant on things imho.

So my question is ARE things different "on the ground " in DC...and particularly in the area ... meaning if we lived close by we'd know more. I know someone was at the hearing Thursday and Thank YOU btw for going even though it was a bust. I don't think it was a waste of your time, Nikki, I believe, was your name. I know DW was there but did you get a look at him ... I sense nothing behind his eyes .. like the AZ shooter, and Fort Hood shooter, a total look of depravity behind the eyes ... absolutely evil.

So just things that make me go 'hmmmmm.........

My primary residence is in downtown DC, but I spend my summers elsewhere. I'm going home for a few days tomorrow. I'm thinking of trying to do some research from primary sources, maybe head to Anne Arundel or PG county libraries or similar. If anyone has suggestions, let me know and I'll try to follow up.

 

[rkf]

Dw is now the folk hero who almost got away if it wasn't for pizza. Home invaders are taking notice. So lock your doors. And get a gun and a barker who will not stop barking.

The S family had 2 dogs that barked and a gun.

 

[missreporter]

I agree. But it bugs me when I have a typo in one of my WS posts!

The way that is written shows me a lot of things (inferring):
1. He doesn't have anyone with writing skills to proof-read his web content before he posts it.
2. He doesn't think he needs proof-reading and doesn't see the errors.
3. He doesn't write well.
4. He either doesn't understand how rankings, points and championships work or he counts on his readers to not know.
5. He lies/embellishes/exaggerates details that can easily be fact-checked.

*Does the inconsistent 1st and 3rd person sentence structure mean anything psychologically? Skigirl?

-"Moving forward, he began to explore my interest in speed at age 18 by attending a Stunt Drivers Certification course."
-"As my racing career progressed, he attained a Superlite Truck license and national competition license."
-"Jordan was then invited to be a finalist in the Skip Barber Karts to Cars Shootout which took place over 3 days down at Sebring as well, where I competed against some of the best young talent in racing from around the world..."

I haven't read all of the posts to see any replies to you...but this makes me think perhaps someone wrote the copy for him, in the third person, and he went in and made edits in the first person, not taking the time to think about changes he was making or not understanding the very basics of the editing process.

The "edits," in particular the last example you quote, seem like changes meant to punch up the writing to be more self-aggrandizing. Which smacks of something he would do. IMO.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[TexMex]

Excellent question, and I am by far the least qualified poster to give an answer. Hoping OCB might jump back on and give us her thoughts. As far as my thinking goes, I have to go with TexMex's explanation that it is possible Wint had cased Mr. S's house, had a need for vengeance or retaliation for the past with him, broke in during the day and quickly subdued 2 women and a 10 y/o child with a knife. I don't think Mrs. S would necessarily know the combinations to the safe. So, Wint thinking he's pretty hot stuff for breaking in and controlling 3 people so easily, decides he can handle Mr. S too because he wants what is in those safes. He's greedy. He's wanting them to go make withdrawals for MORE cash when Mr. S uses the $40,000 as a bargaining chip to buy more time and hopefully save their lives.

I'm wondering how often Wint rode the bus or if he just noticed Mrs. F at the same bus stop quite often. I think he caught on that Mrs. F was Mr. S's housekeeper and he knew her schedule.

I know that probably doesn't answer your question properly. Just think the fewer people involved the more money Wint would have to himself. I just don't think Wint needed specific information from JW or Nelly to commit this crime. Clearly he had help after the fact, and we cannot discuss those names because they were never published, say for one and that is still off limits.

And just so I can better understand your question, what are the two contemporaneous events to which you are eluding?

IMO Wint may have been wanting to flee the area before he had to go to court and face sentencing for his most recent arrest in March. He needed money and from his past employment as well as his family member (per CNN report) he has SS on his radar of wealthy people/house who could be targeted.
He kicks in the door, subdues two terrified women and a ten year old then leverages them against a wealthy husband for cash.

The two events I'm imagining are DW needing money and SS having money!

 

[katydid23]

There was another guy who did something similar - he was a DJ in a midwestern city. Told his wife he was accepted at Harvard business school, so they moved to Boston. He poisoned her to death with antifreeze. He did take a computer class in Boston, but was not a Harvard student in anything. http://www.nbcnews.com/id/28583944/ns/dateline_nbc-crime_reports/t/death-deception/#.VZmHdxNViko

In these cases of lying murderers who killed their wives, their lying had come to a critical mass. They had told their wives they were accepted into Harvard or into medical school and the date was fast approaching where they would be caught in those lies.

I don't see any correlation with JW's situation. The lies we have been discussing are in his online resume about how many races he won.I don't see how that would put the SS family in danger because of his lies.

I am sure we can find many murderers who are liars. But we can also find many liars that have never murdered. Probably the vast majority of liars have never done anything violent.

Also, SS knew about his being fired from the Autobahn. I am fairly certain he would have investigated the reason for the firing before he hired him in such a personal position. If he had been fired for something criminal then I do not believe that SS would have had him as a personal driver. JMO

 

[katydid23]

TY for responding! I didn't have any two events/facts in mind, but just to pick 2 JW's hiring and within 2 months, 4 people are murdered in the home. That could be a coincidence or related, but deciding one or the other, without knowing, is an assumption.

We could say the same thing about a lot of things. How about the coincidence that his Dojo is opening the next day and his family is slaughtered?
And I am sure there are others that we do not know about. Maybe someone was fired recently and then this family was killed.

If JW had a criminal past or a violent past then I would see it as more of a concrete connection. JMO

 

[Skigirl]

They were neighbors though. Dw and jw.

I'm keeping an open mind, but family-neighbors + car found near that location is just an incredible coincidence IMO. Not an impossible coincidence, but a freaky, very improbable coincidence.

 

[TexMex]

I'm not saying I necessarily think there have been additional arrests, I'm just saying it is possible MSM wouldn't report additional arrests because it's possible MSM is not aware of them...LE doesn't have to share news of arrests with the media, AFAIK. There is a lot of public interest in this case which seems like it would make it more likely that names of any other people in custody would be shared with the media, however I can see LE keeping this under wraps too since they may want to be very careful about what info is made public right now as they build a case...I just don't know.

You can search inmate databases by name but you don't know what name you are looking for, you can only guess at names of possible involved parties. There may be people arrested whose names we don't know.

Again, I'm not saying I believe this is the case, I'm just stating that it is possible arrests have been made that have not been reported/that we don't know about.

Maybe someone with more knowledge about this topic can correct me if I'm wrong about LE being able to keep arrests to themselves in high profile cases and not give the names of those arrested to the media. I don't know that for a fact but I just suspect that it is in many ways LE's call whether or not to release the names of those they have arrested to the media. That doesn't make the arrest a 'secret' (as the name of the person arrested would still be in a publicly searchable database) but it makes it harder for the general public to find out about it.

One thing is clear though. JW's name is known and he has not been charged in this crime. After almost eight weeks and his phone and car bring searched and being interviewed by homicide investigators, there is no arrest of SS driver.


http://www.cnn.com/videos/justice/20...n-dnt-lead.cnn


Former Asst Director FBI Ron Hosko

"Certainly by now they have had enough time to do lab examinations, to get records- typically in this case phone records that may put others in proximity to the crime scene. To lift fingerprints and get other DNA from the scene. Now the question is: does that exist? "


IMO after over seven weeks since the crime, that other evidence does not exist.