DC - Savvas Savopoulos, family & Veralicia Figueroa murdered; Daron Wint Arrested #22

[katydid23]

Who the hell goes door to door selling vacuum cleaners in 2015?! What?! That sounds extremely sus.

And have police ruled out any possibility of neighbors being involved? Sounds like they spend a lot of time looking out their windows..

And I totally agree with taylors, there's no way they would have left all the other valuables. The only possibility left now is someone with a grudge against the family paid the brothers to set Daron up, because they knew they couldn't get away with it without setting someone up to take the fall.

Why else would they leave behind so many valuables, if the primary motivation was greed/jealousy/resentment?

They only took what they did because they were getting paid to make it look like a botched robbery.

As to the bolded portion above, I disagree. Plenty of home invaders choose not to take certain valuables. Especially if they have killed the homeowners. Why try and pawn a painting or a silver chalice, if it can tie you to a quadruple murder?

And I disagree that it is the 'only possibility left. ' That is pretty limiting. It may be one possibility but I think there are others.

I think it is more likely that DW was the one who thought up this genius plan himself. If he had been hired by someone, why wouldn't he have said so before his trial?

And if he had been hired, why was he driving around with his brothers, partying in a motel with some of the loot from the robbery?

 

[Patrick Thomas]

You think I'm on to something here?!

 

[Inthedetails]

It was hardly the perfect storm for Savvas! Seems he tried many times to alert that things were not right with him and his household, and was unable to get the message across. I'm so sad for those that lived to realize the clues, only after it was too late. Prayers for all.

I feel the same way - very sad in that I think Savvas and maybe Amy tried to send clues, but they were so closely watched that the clues were super, super subtle and simply missed.
jmo

 

[katydid23]

I feel the same way - very sad in that I think Savvas and maybe Amy tried to send clues, but they were so closely watched that the clues were super, super subtle and simply missed.
jmo

That was probably holding a knife to their little boys throat, while they were on the phone.

 

[oceanblueeyes]

I haven't heard of any evidence of any "fighting back". Perhaps that will come out in the trial?

I would be surprised if any of them tried to fight back. I think they all tried to reason with him hoping he would spare all of their lives if they did everything he told them to do. If any of them displeased him Philip would be tortured imo so the adults would be submissive.

Imo he came in and grabbed Philip first threatening to do him harm. That would keep each of the others compliant and under his control. Even he knew how much love parents have for their child. They probably told him 'we will get the money and you can take anything you want but please don't hurt Philip.

I think Savvas..was the calm amid the raging storm. Imo he tried to reason with him. It seems when DW left the room he tried his best to calmly leave red flags. However the people he contacted wouldn't ever dream of something like this was happening to this family.

I know they now feel so sad they didnt pick up on his alarm signals.

It really doesn't take a mastermind to pull this off. He..like others who also held multiple victims against their will
controlled the situation by using fear..threats of harm or death and showing them a deadly weapon.

If he grabbed Philip first and put the knife to his throat he would instantly gain control over all the adults.

When Joe Duncan invaded the home of Shasta and Dylan Greone he knew beforehand there were 2 large adults..one large sturdy built boy along with two young children inside. He also knew they had two pit bulls inside. He surveilled their home before he entered. None of that alarmed him nor stopped him. He murdered the 2 adults and older child with a mighty max hammer. The two adults allowed him to tie them up. They were trying their best to save everyone hoping he would rob them and then go on his way. They had no way of knowing he was planning all along on murdering three and kidnapping the two young children which he tortured and repeatedly raped for 6..7 weeks with him finally murdering little Dylan also.

Suspects like DW and JD are very aware of the protective love parents have for their children and those they love. They use that deep bond as a tool to gain full control. They are not alone either. So many have used this same MO.

Jmo

 

[Inthedetails]

That was probably holding a knife to their little boys throat, while they were on the phone.

I assume so.

 

[zencompass]

Exactly. There has to be a third party which funded/orchestrated this whole thing from A-Z. Clearly they were familiar with the home's security system. How?

The prosecution claims one day Daron Wint is a knife flailing psycho with no impulse control, and the next day he's a criminal mastermind? They can't make up their minds. No offense to Mr. Wint, but I don't think he's capable of pulling something like this off.

This whole situation sounds like a professionally funded operation.

Dear Patrick Thomas,

A few years back, on this thread, I posted a similar possibility.

My theory then:

My reasoning was that no one would talk or offer any information they had (and I believe they had some information) was because someone very powerful had enlisted D.W.

The threats that this unknown person would kill their families were taken seriously because of the person making the ominous threats. This individual is a criminal who has the power to have this "done". This person is "known" to them as doing this, organizing "hits" but not getting his hands dirty at the scene.

If there was an unknown person who was behind this, Wint won't give him up because he knows what this person will do to Wint's family and others he knows if he does talk.

Was the low sum of $40,000 requested to "pay" Wint for his work?

Was this a part of the plan?

Today although I lean towards D.W. being the only perpetrator, I still consider the possibility of someone who had a mind as shrewd and intelligent as S.S.

How can I not dismiss such a possibility?

After all, more than his business acumen, he had extremely high skills of strategy and technique.
It is because of the "strategy" and cleverness that he had experience with, it is difficult to believe that someone could "outsmart" him. I realize that his beloved son was being tortured for answers but was there any way S.S. could save himself and his family. I do not know.

From Legacy Obituary of Savvas Savopoulos:

"Savvas enjoyed numerous activities including martial arts, where he excelled in both knowledge and technical skill. Savvas was the current headmaster of a traditional style of Japanese swordsmanship dating to mid 1800's. His love for the martial arts started at the young age of seventeen and it was his dream to have a Japanese style center both in architecture and spirit of teaching traditional Japanese martial arts."

 

[zencompass]

@SeesSeas and @Seattle1 both provided us with information concerning this subject of Japanese swordsmanship and Kenjutsu.

S.S. was preparing his new Dojo for the grand opening the next morning.

 

[zencompass]

Kenjutsu, of which S.S. was a master, included swiftness and speed in movements.

I absolutely understand that when someone has a knife to your beloved, you make no moves, sudden or otherwise.

However, the strategy involved in learning, practicing and mastering these techniques (watching your opponent's body movements, etc.) is intense and "intellectually demanding" (quote from second article ( below).

These two articles gave me a glimpse into the sheer intensity and strategy of Kenjutsu:

Kenjutsu

Kenjutsu - Japanese Swordsmanship at Itten Dojo

 

[zencompass]

It is the intense training of intellect and strategy that makes Kenjutsu so powerful, along with the technique, of course.

Could it be that S.S. defaulted to this high intellect and used red flags in the hopes that someone would "understand"?

Readying for the opening of his new Dojo the next morning, was Kenjutsu on his mind?

Using his intellect training of this - could the "red flags" have been too subtle for the average person? They were "there" but how would a person not trained this way pick up on them? Were they "hidden" there as if this were a game of strategy?

Were the red flags too subtle, if S.S. was using Kenjutsu techniques to relay them?

Sadly, they could have been. I just do not know.

 

[Seattle1]

That was probably holding a knife to their little boys throat, while they were on the phone.

Exactly! In one of the first audios released, it's a call from Savvas to Nellie telling her that AS was in bed sick, and that Vera stayed over to help with PS and mid sentence there was a scream as if to warn 'no, it's not true,' and I've always thought that scream was from little PS. Perhaps call has been enhanced, and will be used in the trial as evidence.

 

[Harmony 2]

Melanie Alnwick‏Verified account @fox5melanie 34m34 minutes ago
My *not so brief* synopsis of the #MansionMurders trial Day 3 - deets about the home security system and Nelly Gutierrez testifies! https://www.facebook.com/142176909276985/posts/998875380273796/ … @fox5dc

 

[Seattle1]

Who the hell goes door to door selling vacuum cleaners in 2015?! What?! That sounds extremely sus.

And have police ruled out any possibility of neighbors being involved? Sounds like they spend a lot of time looking out their windows..

And I totally agree with taylors, there's no way they would have left all the other valuables. The only possibility left now is someone with a grudge against the family paid the brothers to set Daron up, because they knew they couldn't get away with it without setting someone up to take the fall.

Why else would they leave behind so many valuables, if the primary motivation was greed/jealousy/resentment?

They only took what they did because they were getting paid to make it look like a botched robbery.

While uncommon, it seems Kirby vacuum sales by door are still alive and well. This (in Minneapolis) is as current as April 2018...
Door-to-door vacuum salesmen take pushy to a new level

 

[Seattle1]

As to the bolded portion above, I disagree. Plenty of home invaders choose not to take certain valuables. Especially if they have killed the homeowners. Why try and pawn a painting or a silver chalice, if it can tie you to a quadruple murder?

And I disagree that it is the 'only possibility left. ' That is pretty limiting. It may be one possibility but I think there are others.

I think it is more likely that DW was the one who thought up this genius plan himself. If he had been hired by someone, why wouldn't he have said so before his trial?

And if he had been hired, why was he driving around with his brothers, partying in a motel with some of the loot from the robbery?

Just a cursory view at DW background and past arrests would tell you that he wanted CASH, and would not be interested in the valuables as he had no time to for fence. DW was on deportation stats, and he didn't want to leave the US without dollars in his pocket. It also doesn't follow that DW would sit silently in jail for 3 years to protect others. It can't be that he truly believes he'll get away free, and will receive another payment for keeping quiet!

 

[SleuthyLou]

It’s nauseating to relive this again; I cannot imagine the lives that their family members have had since then and now with the trial. I have waited so long for this trial to begin and am finding it hard to even click on these links for details. I’m really interested in hearing from/of JW and where that will take us.

 

[Patrick Thomas]

Just a cursory view at DW background and past arrests would tell you that he wanted CASH, and would not be interested in the valuables as he had no time to for fence. DW was on deportation stats, and he didn't want to leave the US without dollars in his pocket. It also doesn't follow that DW would sit silently in jail for 3 years to protect others. It can't be that he truly believes he'll get away free, and will receive another payment for keeping quiet!

Exactly. They wanted cash, which just gives me more reason to believe they were hired.

And also I would like to point out, the fact that his DNA was on the pizza means nothing. His brothers could have gotten his DNA from him spitting on the ground, eating, drooling while sleeping, etc.. and just transferred it to the pizza.

 

[Inthedetails]

It’s nauseating to relive this again; I cannot imagine the lives that their family members have had since then and now with the trial. I have waited so long for this trial to begin and am finding it hard to even click on these links for details. I’m really interested in hearing from/of JW and where that will take us.

I agree - it is hard to relive this case. The details in court - even the new ones - are still leaving so many questions. So far. Maybe it will all make sense later.

The phone calls to the security company and the phone calls to the bank and the phone calls to the housekeeper, etc, etc., all seem rather organized. That perp really knew how to orchestrate a robbery like that? I mean, I guess he did because it happened, but the vibe still is....off.

jmo

 

[Wrigley1]

Do we really think DW was smart enough to think of the security system and the “cloud “while he is trying to contain 4 people? It had to be more perpetrators. To consider the money and the other housekeeper. IDK. Just a lot of pieces to remember and put together alone. IMO

 

[taylorss]

I thought I read that items left behind included SS’s cash-filled wallet... I’ll have to go back and look for that info again

Eta autocorrect insert

 

[taylorss]

I found a reference for random people in the neighborhood before the murders:

“The police documents also show what appears to be an unusual amount of activity last week around the victims’ Woodland Drive NW home. Neighbors reported seeing a man banging on the door of one home, an aggressive vacuum cleaner salesman at another house, reports of a prowler, and what a witness said could have been the Savopouloses’ blue Porsche speeding down the street the day before the deaths were discovered.”

Housekeeper of D.C. couple found dead wondered if something was amiss