DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Charlot123]

Fewer interactions and hands can also equal a reduction in errors. This concept is overlooked at times. May we learn all we can from this incident to prevent it from happening again.
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“In this instance, it was actually a good thing, because now you have one controller who’s actually talking to and controlling both of the aircraft,” he said.

“Otherwise, if it was a separate controller, then the two controllers would have to constantly coordinate back and forth about what is happening and what they’re choosing to do.”

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-washington-dc-trump-01-31-25/index.html

Has anyone ever been to an ATC tower? We have a “demonstration” in our Museum of Flight in Renton, WA, so one can imagine how it looks like. We have a small airport nearby, so it is realistic.

Planes, paths on air flight radar. The ATC has to deal with: planes and runways. Keeping in mind the skies around and in the country, too. There may be accidents, diverted flights, additional things happening. But to deal with military helicopters for a civil ATC is too much. The opposite idea, move them somewhere, is better.

 

[Sarahlou]

That’s odd, someone from the base will, I hope.

Jmo

Why? "At this time" doesn't mean they never want it released. They probably want time to grieve before being hassled.

 

[Charlot123]

The family would probably prefer to keep it a secret forever.

Well, other families need answers.

I don’t care about gender and other personal details.

One question: I’d like to know about the grades and level of the pilots. Their performance at flight school and on base. Were they tops, middle or bottom? Nothing else matters. If they were tops (and tops make mistakes, too) it will be “an unlucky training accident.” If these people had poor grades from the get go, the question would be, why were they even employed at Fort Belvoir?

 

[al66pine]

Recorders on Blackhawk Helicopters?

I don’t think blackhawk helicopters have blackbox/data recorders.

Jmo

@Elley Mae I was wondering about that.

In case this has not been posted, FWIW, from a reuters.com story quoting NTSB yesterday:
"NTSB member Todd Inman said the military helicopter was equipped "with some form of recording devices and those will be read either by DOD or by us." He said NTSB and DOD have agreements to share data on those recorders."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/takeoffs-landings-halted-ronald-reagan-national-airport-after-aircraft-incident-2025-01-30/

 

[Elley Mae]

Well, other families need answers.

I don’t care about gender and other personal details.

One question: I’d like to know about the grades and level of the pilots. Their performance at flight school and on base. Were they tops, middle or bottom? Nothing else matters. If they were tops (and tops make mistakes, too) it will be “an unlucky training accident.” If these people had poor grades from the get go, the question would be, why were they even employed at Fort Belvoir?

If that person was in control and it was flying at wrong altitude and on the wrong path their name should be front and center, and not remain anonymous.

Jmo

 

[Chimera]

Well, other families need answers.

I don’t care about gender and other personal details.

One question: I’d like to know about the grades and level of the pilots. Their performance at flight school and on base. Were they tops, middle or bottom? Nothing else matters. If they were tops (and tops make mistakes, too) it will be “an unlucky training accident.” If these people had poor grades from the get go, the question would be, why were they even employed at Fort Belvoir?

I think it's a fair question.
Agreed re. the other families need answers about how this happened.
Not saying the public needs to know everything.

On the other hand that air carrier needs to reassure people that it's safe to fly with them and that the cause of the tragedy will be addressed asap.
Which I think they're working on it even as we speak.

I am horrified that there's a possibility some bodies may not be recovered, due to the river currents, etc.
Hoping that's not the case.
May the emergency responders and divers stay safe !
Certainly they're well-trained, but until you're doing the recovery you don't always know how much it'll affect you.
There could be some ptsd in the weeks or months ahead.
Imo.

 

[Ssschu]

If that person was in control and it was flying at wrong altitude and on the wrong path their name should be front and center, and not remain anonymous.

Jmo

Absolutely!

 

[SMK777]

The family of the second pilot on the Black Hawk helicopter has asked the Pentagon to not release their name at this time

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885426193186373798

That seems odd.

 

[MassGuy]

That seems odd.

If this pilot was the one in control, the family might want to delay the name release because of the inevitable backlash. They probably want time to process this without all the noise.

 

[ekc]

I think it's a fair question.
Agreed re. the other families need answers about how this happened.
Not saying the public needs to know everything.

On the other hand that air carrier needs to reassure people that it's safe to fly with them and that the cause of the tragedy will be addressed asap.
Which I think they're working on it even as we speak.

I am horrified that there's a possibility some bodies may not be recovered, due to the river currents, etc.
Hoping that's not the case.
May the emergency responders and divers stay safe !
Certainly they're well-trained, but until you're doing the recovery you don't always know how much it'll affect you.
There could be some ptsd in the weeks or months ahead.
Imo.

totally agree..but what i dont understand is..if the plane broke in 3 pieces in waist high water (i've read) and it was belly side up...why were there no survivors? i may not be getting this right but its not making sense to me.

 

[Elley Mae]

Could be why the ATC was in contact with pat25 because it was flying at wrong altitude and on wrong path. ATC may not be at fault at all.

Jmo

 

[Warwick1991]

Well, other families need answers.

I don’t care about gender and other personal details.

One question: I’d like to know about the grades and level of the pilots. Their performance at flight school and on base. Were they tops, middle or bottom? Nothing else matters. If they were tops (and tops make mistakes, too) it will be “an unlucky training accident.” If these people had poor grades from the get go, the question would be, why were they even employed at Fort Belvoir?

Most of the time, the military dumps poor performers, especially when it comes to expensive hardware like aircraft. You could also ask questions about the helicopter itself - were its instruments working properly? Altimeter reading correctly? Problems with electronics? It looks like the human factor is the explanation, but a problem with the helicopter itself must be ruled out.

 

[SMK777]

If this pilot was the one in control, the family might want to delay the name release because of the inevitable backlash. They probably want time to process this without all the noise.

That seems likely, yes.

 

[PayrollNerd]

Has anyone ever been to an ATC tower? We have a “demonstration” in our Museum of Flight in Renton, WA, so one can imagine how it looks like. We have a small airport nearby, so it is realistic.

Planes, paths on air flight radar. The ATC has to deal with: planes and runways. Keeping in mind the skies around and in the country, too. There may be accidents, diverted flights, additional things happening. But to deal with military helicopters for a civil ATC is too much. The opposite idea, move them somewhere, is better.

I’ve worked for two Airport Authorities (the people who run the actual airport) in two different states. I’ve been in the bigger airports’ control tower. As employees, a small group of us were granted FAA approval and given an extensive private tour by a couple of our officers. It was very interesting and fascinating.

The main floor had a bank of computer screens where you could see every conceivable aircraft moving about on the radar. The gentleman that manned those was great at answering our questions.

On the top floor, there were 3 ATC’s working at the time of our tour. We were allowed to ask one gentleman questions, while the other two gentlemen manned the screens & managed the flights.

It was a once in a lifetime experience to be up there and watch planes land. Especially since I was The Payroll Lady, those officers treated me like a queen. LOL!

If the tower was not adequately staffed, who manned their computers if the ATC had to run downstairs to the restroom? The top of the towers are all glass and sorta round with 360 degree views. It’s not like there’s a break room up there.

 

[vls12345]

totally agree..but what i dont understand is..if the plane broke in 3 pieces in waist high water (i've read) and it was belly side up...why were there no survivors? i may not be getting this right but its not making sense to me.

Not sure of the altitude, but they fell from at least 200 feet, which is like falling from a 20-story building (generally speaking). Sadly, you don't survive that.

MOO.

ETA: Plus the forces of the impact of both aircraft colliding, plus the forces of hitting the surface of the water (& the riverbed). Not to mention the big flash/ignition, which seems like it might have been the fuel (in the wings) igniting. It's a lot.

 

[Rolypolyoly]

Well, other families need answers.

I don’t care about gender and other personal details.

One question: I’d like to know about the grades and level of the pilots. Their performance at flight school and on base. Were they tops, middle or bottom? Nothing else matters. If they were tops (and tops make mistakes, too) it will be “an unlucky training accident.” If these people had poor grades from the get go, the question would be, why were they even employed at Fort Belvoir?

They can release those details as needs be, if necessary but that doesn't have to include a name.
The family have a right to request privacy at this time, for whatever reasons, and until the investigation is done I see no need to release her name. We don't know anything yet.

The families of all the victims absolutely deserve answers as to what went wrong, but I don't believe they need a name to be publicly released to get them. JMO.

 

[Warwick1991]

totally agree..but what i dont understand is..if the plane broke in 3 pieces in waist high water (i've read) and it was belly side up...why were there no survivors? i may not be getting this right but its not making sense to me.

It fell from between 300 and 400 feet, probably in a spin at a very high rate of speed, as it was uncontrollable. Fuel tanks in at least 1 wing exploded. It would impact mud at the river bottom. Also, the helicopter's rotors probably severely damaged the fuselage. The photos show the fuselage torn apart. Survival extremely unlikely.

 

[Chimera]

Recorders on Blackhawk Helicopters?

@Elley Mae I was wondering about that.

In case this has not been posted, FWIW, from a reuters.com story quoting NTSB yesterday:
"NTSB member Todd Inman said the military helicopter was equipped "with some form of recording devices and those will be read either by DOD or by us." He said NTSB and DOD have agreements to share data on those recorders."

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/takeoffs-landings-halted-ronald-reagan-national-airport-after-aircraft-incident-2025-01-30/

Thanks, I was also wondering if the choppers had black boxes.


Here's an article from 6 hours ago, about both of the planes' black boxes being recovered, I thought I'd read yesterday that at least one had been recovered-- so it sounds like they have the other one as well :

DC plane crash black boxes found as staff shortage claims examined

The collision between a passenger plane and a military helicopter is suspected to have killed all 67 onboard.

www.bbc.com

The National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) said a preliminary report would be issued in 30 days.
The flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder, known as the black boxes, can help offer clues to investigators about what may have gone wrong on the flight.

 

[Jade]

totally agree..but what i dont understand is..if the plane broke in 3 pieces in waist high water (i've read) and it was belly side up...why were there no survivors? i may not be getting this right but its not making sense to me.

Have you seen this video of the crash that was posted up thread?

https://www.tiktok.com/video/7466051357439446315

 

[PrairieWind]

So the vanity and comfort of diginitaires and government officals comes before the absolute safety of the public, the flight crew and cabin crew professionals and the dignity and honor of the ATC personnel?

I'd say the priorites are all wrong

The military has lot of missions they are responsible for in the nation's capital. My understanding was this was part of an ongoing continuation of government exercise.