DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Deleted member 39678]

Yes. We wear NVGs as they actually increase our night vision.

Here's an example from the net:

Interesting. So why didn't the Blackhawk pilots see the CRJ and avoid colliding with it?

 

[Herat]

A tired surgeon generally can only harm one patient at time.

A tired ATController can hold the fate of hundreds of people at once.

And a pilot, even a helicopter pilot can hold the fate of hundreds of people at once, too.

 

[Chimera]

I agree with you on this. I'd also say that the Apache was maintaining it's altitude the entire time whereas the CRJ (a Bombardier aircraft - pronounced as "Bombard Yay" [it's French Canadian word]) would have been dropping altitude as it lowered to land.

I think that it's entirely possible that the Apache did see the second aircraft instead. And that the CRJ was somewhat above the Apache (but lowering at the time) and therefore in a blindspot of the Apache's roof/panels above windows and of course the CRJ cannot see below itself either.

My amateur opinion only.

Emphasis mine.
Agreed, and according to the views of Representative Mark Green (Tenn.)--- (The link is below ) mentions that helicopters are built primarily for looking downwards as in rescue operations or also in combat situations, and that it's more difficult for the pilot too see upwards, while looking through the windshield ?
And that the pilot might need to literally hang their head out of the side window to see in front of them if something was above & in front of them as well.

I've not flown in a heli. and have only seen footage from news clips or occasionally in movies , so I don't know what kind of visual range the heli. crew would have.
Imo.

What the Black Hawk pilots would have seen right before fatal crash

A former helicopter flight surgeon detailed what the pilots of the Black Hawk may have seen before the fatal plane crash in Washington, D.C.

www.dailymail.co.uk

 

[nerosleuth]

You have to wonder if the current location where Regan National Airport is located at is a cause of concern.

Among the concerns is that the airport is next to a river, and is also close to critical government buildings nearby.

And there are numerous military aircrafts are flying in the same airspace where a busy civilian airport is located.

I'm wondering if there is a need to build a brand new national airport for domestic flights at a new location somewhere in the Washington DC area that would be a whole lot safer for air travelers.

Of course a brand new national airport would not be very popular with many members of the U.S. Congress if Reagan National Airport were to be closed permanently.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

Emphasis mine.
Agreed, and according to the views of Representative Mark Green (Tenn.)--- (The link is below ) mentions that helicopters are built primarily for looking downwards as in rescue operations or also in combat situations, and that it's more difficult for the pilot too see upwards, while looking through the windshield ?
And that the pilot might need to literally hang their head out of the side window to see in front of them if something was above & in front of them as well.

I've not flown in a heli. and have only seen footage from news clips or occasionally in movies , so I don't know what kind of visual range the heli. crew would have.
Imo.

What the Black Hawk pilots would have seen right before fatal crash

A former helicopter flight surgeon detailed what the pilots of the Black Hawk may have seen before the fatal plane crash in Washington, D.C.

www.dailymail.co.uk

That makes it sound like it's totally unsafe for Blackhawk helicopters to use visual separation with other aircraft. JMO.

 

[borndem]

The DC Airport (now named the Ronald Reagan Washington National) airport was built in 1941.

It has the busiest runway in the US, with an average of 819 takeoffs per day.

(per the New York Post -- interesting reading)
- - - - - - - - - - - -

Ronald Reagan Washington ‘one of the most demanding airports’ for pilots, who face ‘helicopter alley’

“”DCA is one of the most demanding airports in the world. It also has what’s known as ‘helicopter alley’ with hundreds of police, military, news and rescue helicopters criss-crossing th…

nypost.com

 

[Herat]

You have to wonder if the current location where Regan National Airport is located at is a cause of concern.

Among the concerns is that the airport is next to a river, and is also close to critical government buildings nearby.

And there are numerous military aircrafts are flying in the same airspace where a busy civilian airport is located.

I'm wondering if there is a need to build a brand new national airport for domestic flights at a new location somewhere in the Washington DC area that would be a whole lot safer for air travelers.

Of course a brand new national airport would not be very popular with many members of the U.S. Congress if Reagan National Airport were to be closed permanently.

There are two other airports that can serve the Washington DC area:

Washington Dulles (IAD) is about 28 miles from KDCA which can translate into 45 minutes with commuter traffic.

Baltimore Washington Airport ( BWI) is about 44 miles from KDCA which can translate into about 45-60 minutes with commuter traffic.

I was in DC many years ago and I don't recall why, but my flight from KDCI was cancelled and we had to get re-booked to fly out of BWI. It was a long taxi drive, but not a crisis.

 

[Chimera]

Flight attendant Alexis Burgess narrowly escaped tragedy after a plane she had just worked on crashed outside Washington, D.C.

Alexis is lucky to have just ended her shift, but how sad to lose your fellow employees !
She seems to be a bit in shock like it hasn't fully hit yet.
At around 2:26 in the above YT vid., one of the smaller rescue boats or rafts looks like it's gliding over broken glass -- it's most likely broken ice.
Parts of the river may have been frozen ?

Sorry for all of the divers and rescuers having to do this heart-rending task.
I couldn't do it.
Omo.

 

[Izzylizzy]

Almost 1 million views

Analyzing the Mid-Air Collision Over the Potomac: A Detailed Examination of ATC Communications​

Captain Steeeve


193K subscribers

 

[snarast]

Seems that it should not be a hub, if it is so overcrowded with flights. I have passed through that airport on at least 3 occasions due to it being a hub ... when my destination was somewhere else.


"It is a hub for American Airlines."

Ronald Reagan Washington National Airport - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

I remember being at the Reagan airport, looking out the window from inside the terminal and just being amazed at how close the White House was. It didn’t seem safe to me then, and much less now.

Obviously, there has to be various types of surveillance in the air around the WH, I mean.

 

[iamshadow21]

I was okay last night, but today, I find myself very emotional. As a fan of figure skating, the ramifications of yesterday are going to reach far and long. It's not just the next decade worth of breakout talent that could have gone to world championships and Olympics, it's the coaches who could have trained dozens in that time, it's those kids who could have skated for years and then been coaches themselves for decades, or gone on to sports journalism.

It's a cross section of the sport, from early nineties world champions down to bright eyed ten year olds, and nobody in this sport in the world is going to be unaffected by this.

The diversity of the kids lost upsets me. Historically, figure skating, like gymnastics, has been a very white sport, but the last couple of decades has seen a blossoming of talent from all kinds of backgrounds and heritage. It's made it all the better. And every one of these kids lost was bringing something of themselves to the sport, and had the potential to bring so much more, to grow it and change it in beautiful and unexpected ways.

Yeah, as a skate fan, I'm grieving.

MOO

 

[airportwoman]

You have to wonder if the current location where Regan National Airport is located at is a cause of concern.

Among the concerns is that the airport is next to a river, and is also close to critical government buildings nearby.

And there are numerous military aircrafts are flying in the same airspace where a busy civilian airport is located.

I'm wondering if there is a need to build a brand new national airport for domestic flights at a new location somewhere in the Washington DC area that would be a whole lot safer for air travelers.

Of course a brand new national airport would not be very popular with many members of the U.S. Congress if Reagan National Airport were to be closed permanently.

You should look at a map of Chicago. Midway Airport is in a residential neighborhood, and there are houses literally across the street from the ends of the runways! I don't know how the people who live there have managed to preserve their hearing.

Anyway, I'm also grateful that nobody on the ground was injured, or worse.

 

[jepop]

I hope the families of the victims might find some comfort once it's officially known and stated that no-one on that plane would have had any awareness of what happened. I'm just assuming at this point, but I believe there wouldn't have been any mental and physical suffering. An official statement to this effect once confirmed might be something to hold onto. Jmo

ETA wanted to add, hoping for same for the victims in the helicopter.

 

[MassGuy]

https://twitter.com/x/status/1885165675162861938

 

[ASipowicz]

Thank you to those who posted videos of the young skaters doing their routines.

It’s difficult to watch these children, so nervous about landing their jumps etc., when we know now what fate would befall them.

I know they’ve all practiced nearly every day, for years and years, and I’m joyful (if that is the right word in such a time) to know their beauty will not fade away so long as we can still watch.

I don’t want it to all have been for nothing.

JMO

Beautifully said. Thank you.

 

[Vern]

Interesting. So why didn't the Blackhawk pilots see the CRJ and avoid colliding with it?

I posted my speculation in a post about 3 (of my) posts ago.

 

[Betty P]

You have to wonder if the current location where Regan National Airport is located at is a cause of concern.

Among the concerns is that the airport is next to a river, and is also close to critical government buildings nearby.

And there are numerous military aircrafts are flying in the same airspace where a busy civilian airport is located.

I'm wondering if there is a need to build a brand new national airport for domestic flights at a new location somewhere in the Washington DC area that would be a whole lot safer for air travelers.

Of course a brand new national airport would not be very popular with many members of the U.S. Congress if Reagan National Airport were to be closed permanently.

Someone interviewed today said the reason Dulles Airport was built was to replace National Airport. Afterwards, members of Congress insisted on keeping National because it was closer.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I posted my speculation in a post about 3 (of my) posts ago.

So your talking about your post mentioning helicopters and their blind spots from roof panels.

So even with NVG's these helicopter pilots have poor visibility and can't maintain visual separation because of that. That's a very big problem IMO.

 

[Seattle1]

Thanks for the video.

Wanted to ask, since the choppers don't use the runways at all, afaik, for landing/taking off, why go near the plane runways at all ?
Still do the training flights which are necessary -- but re-route them away from aircraft.
Omo.

Correct, the Military don't use the commercial flight runways and generally hugs the river on their "helicopter highway" Routes #4 and #1 per the FAA Map linked below.

And if they cross the island for whatever reason towards the airport, this would put the helicopter closest to the three-three [33 short runway] which is less used except for the fateful night and where Black Hawks know to be mindful of their elevation and their responsibility for "visual separation."

Initially, seemed Black Hawk checked all those boxes until ATC advised them they were getting close to CRJ, and then asked:

"PAT25 do you have the CRJ in sight?"
"PAT25 pass behind CRJ"

Within moments, we know the Black Hawk pilot confirmed he saw a plane (CRJ) and requests “visual separation” — meaning he is going to maneuver the helicopter out of the way using his own visuals, instead of by following control tower direction. And then it's over...

Sadly, the pilot was not likely looking at CRJ / American Airlines Flight 5342. MOO

https://aeronav.faa.gov/visual/09-05-2024/PDFs/Balt-Wash_Heli.pdf

ETA: Please see Captain Steeeve's YT posted up-thread. He confirms the Black Hawk pilot twice confirmed he had sight of CRJ/took responsibility even before ATC directed him to pass behind the aircraft. He also has more details of additional aircraft in the air behind Flight 5342 on approach to Reagan-- which the pilot probably had sight of, and not CRJ. Such a tragedy.

 

[Vern]

So your talking about your post mentioning helicopters and their blind spots from roof panels.

So even with NVG's these helicopter pilots have poor visibility and can't maintain visual separation because of that. That's a very big problem IMO.

I guess. Same as aircraft pilots can't see through their own roofs or floors when they are on VFR IMO. There has to be AC structure somewhere.