DCA - American Airlines passenger plane collides with Blackhawk over the Potomac River, all 67 on both dead, 29 Jan 2025

[Chimera]

Respectfully to those who lost their lives -- at this time I'm leaning towards the chopper being too high at that spot ?
Maybe unintentional.
I would like to know the flight history of that ... flight.
Was it an abnormal height for that night, or is it common for military pilots to climb higher if they feel there's no immediate danger of air traffic ?

If a heli. has a flight history of climbing too high there would be records that can be checked.

Do not know if this is serious or if military piloting heli.'s are allowed to go past a 200 ft. ceiling routinely, so it's not unusual.
There must be records for this crew and for the chopper itself.
Omo.

 

[ASipowicz]

I was okay last night, but today, I find myself very emotional. As a fan of figure skating, the ramifications of yesterday are going to reach far and long. It's not just the next decade worth of breakout talent that could have gone to world championships and Olympics, it's the coaches who could have trained dozens in that time, it's those kids who could have skated for years and then been coaches themselves for decades, or gone on to sports journalism.

It's a cross section of the sport, from early nineties world champions down to bright eyed ten year olds, and nobody in this sport in the world is going to be unaffected by this.

The diversity of the kids lost upsets me. Historically, figure skating, like gymnastics, has been a very white sport, but the last couple of decades has seen a blossoming of talent from all kinds of backgrounds and heritage. It's made it all the better. And every one if these kids lost was bringing something of themselves to the sport, and had to potential to bring so much more, to grow it and change it in beautiful and unexpected ways.

Yeah, as a skate fan, I'm grieving.

MOO

Another grieving skating fan here. And today we learned of yet another loss in the skating world --- Just saw that Dick Button passed away today. I always enjoyed his expert commentary ...and I remember his sometimes prickly comments about the skaters and me thinking lighten up Dick!! I hope that he had not heard the devastating news before he passed.

 

[SouthAussie]

I guess. Same as aircraft pilots can't see through their own roofs or floors when they are on VFR IMO. There has to be AC structure somewhere.

It sounds as if it is possible that there may have been two blind spots involved at the time of the crash. One above the helicopter and its pilot(s), and one below the plane and its pilot(s). Perhaps with the plane focusing on the runway and landing, and the helicopter focusing on avoiding another plane that it could see approaching in front of it.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I guess. Same as aircraft pilots can't see through there roofs or floors IMO. There has to be AC structure somewhere.

So ATC should not have relied on PAT25's claim of having the CRJ in sight because of the inherent limitations in aircraft design?

It seems you're saying ATC knew PAT25 was lower than the CRJ and they let them continue with visual separation rules even though the helicopters roof panels prevent the pilots from doing that safely. Is that correct?

 

[iamshadow21]

Another grieving skating fan here. And today we learned of yet another loss in the skating world --- Just saw that Dick Button passed away today. I always enjoyed his expert commentary ...and I remember his sometimes prickly comments about the skaters and me thinking lighten up Dick!! I hope that he had not heard the devastating news before he passed.

I don't think I ever had the opportunity to hear Dick commentate. As an Australian, I tend to hear Australian or British commentary on our broadcasts. Lots of Belinda Noonan and Olly Hogben at the Olympics, for example.

MOO

 

[iamshadow21]

Olivia Ter, a twelve year old skater from Maryland, has been identified as having been on the plane.

https://www.cnn.com/us/live-news/plane-crash-washington-dc-trump-01-31-25#cm6k7wsd800003b6mm231jbzh

 

[Vern]

So ATC should not have relied on PAT25's claim of having the CRJ in sight because of the inherent limitations in aircraft design?

It seems you're saying ATC knew PAT25 was lower than the CRJ and they let them continue with visual separation rules even though the helicopters roof panels prevent the pilots from doing that safely. Is that correct?

I gave my amateur speculation only and my post clearly states so. I'll wait for the professional recreations to come out once all the data is collected and box data analyzed. It will incorporate their exact positions, altitudes and speeds (I believe for all three airframes that were out there). Time will tell the story of what happened here and flight safety recommendations aimed at preventing another like tragedy will be made from that professional analysis.

IMO in my original earlier speculation, I stated that I think PAT25 did see an aircraft which they confirmed to ATC, just the wrong one. You shouldn't be taking that to mean an iota more than that. I have not speculated blame on anyone or anything like you are trying to insinuate with your post.

Have a great evening.

 

[Izzylizzy]

I was okay last night, but today, I find myself very emotional. As a fan of figure skating, the ramifications of yesterday are going to reach far and long. It's not just the next decade worth of breakout talent that could have gone to world championships and Olympics, it's the coaches who could have trained dozens in that time, it's those kids who could have skated for years and then been coaches themselves for decades, or gone on to sports journalism.

It's a cross section of the sport, from early nineties world champions down to bright eyed ten year olds, and nobody in this sport in the world is going to be unaffected by this.

The diversity of the kids lost upsets me. Historically, figure skating, like gymnastics, has been a very white sport, but the last couple of decades has seen a blossoming of talent from all kinds of backgrounds and heritage. It's made it all the better. And every one of these kids lost was bringing something of themselves to the sport, and had the potential to bring so much more, to grow it and change it in beautiful and unexpected ways.

Yeah, as a skate fan, I'm grieving.

MOO

Figure skating was my mom's favorite and Sasha Cohen was her #1.
I spent many wonderful hours with her watching the Olympics.
A beautiful sport that has finally arrived as you said.

imo:
A very sad and heart wrenching video of Nancy Kerrigan and others at the rink.
How a reporter could put Tonya Hardings name in the header with Nancys or even mention Harding in the article with her to me is mind-blowing.

video

Nancy Kerrigan, Tonya Harding devastated over figure skaters in fatal D.C. plane crash

Figure skating star Nancy Kerrigan was overcome with emotion, revealing that she knew at least two skaters on the plane that crashed Wednesday night.

www.usatoday.com

 

[airportwoman]

Another grieving skating fan here. And today we learned of yet another loss in the skating world --- Just saw that Dick Button passed away today. I always enjoyed his expert commentary ...and I remember his sometimes prickly comments about the skaters and me thinking lighten up Dick!! I hope that he had not heard the devastating news before he passed.

He had an autobiography called "Pushing Dick's Buttons." Really.

 

[Chimera]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/dc-md-va/2025/01/30/dc-plane-crash-updates-helicopter-potomac-reagan-airport/

Just 24 hours before the collision of American Eagle Flight 5342 and an Army Black Hawk helicopter near Reagan National Airport on Wednesday, another jet trying to land there had to make a second approach after a helicopter appeared near its flight path, according to an audio recording from air traffic control. That plane, Republic Airways Flight 4514, eventually landed safely.

There were red flags happening at Reagan National Airport.
Imo.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I gave my amateur speculation only and my post clearly states so. I'll wait for the professional recreations to come out once all the data is collected and box data analyzed. It will incorporate their exact positions, altitudes and speeds (I believe for all three airframes that were out there). Time will tell the story of what happened here and flight safety recommendations aimed at preventing another like tragedy will be made from that professional analysis.

IMO in my original earlier speculation, I stated that I think PAT25 did see an aircraft which they confirmed to ATC, just the wrong one. You shouldn't be taking that to mean an iota more than that. I have not speculated blame on anyone or anything.

Have a great evening.

I'm agree that PAT25 thought they saw the traffic that ATC was calling out to them but they were looking at something else.

I don't agree that the pilots wearing NVG's helped them in any way in this accident. JMO.

 

[Vern]

I'm agree that PAT25 thought they saw the traffic that ATC was calling out to them but they were looking at something else.

I don't agree that the pilots wearing NVG's helped them in any way in this accident. JMO.

I stated that I didn't think the NVG played a role. I think the NVG is moot to what caused this horrific accident. IMO.

 

[Charlot123]

So ATC should not have relied on PAT25's claim of having the CRJ in sight because of the inherent limitations in aircraft design?

It seems you're saying ATC knew PAT25 was lower than the CRJ and they let them continue with visual separation rules even though the helicopters roof panels prevent the pilots from doing that safely. Is that correct?

I immediately Googled "can a helicopter have a moonroof?" Ans the answer was, no, but after that, Google took me to a video of a helicopter with a sunroof.

Much as I think it would be useless because you need to see the plane in advance, not when you are under it, I think a modification with a wide-angle camera inside, but on top of the helicopter, is not impossible. Like a tiny window above a window, but a camera?

Same with the NVG. I can see the benefit - it helps us see "in front of us", because the cones that are in the center of the retina function well in the bright light. So night vision goggles potentially "provide us with more cones."

The rods, that are functioning in the low light and concentrated in the periphery of the retina, help with peripheral vision, but do nothing for the center.

So is it possible that the NV goggles, while helping to see better at night in front of you, could potentially limit one's peripheral vision? So while helping to see the plane in front and ahead of the pilot (where he was probably looking), could the goggles cut off the wider horizon? (Above, and closer, where the ill-fated JRC was?) I, too, have the feeling that NVG played no role in this case, and the time of the helicopter talking to the ATC was, as i suspect, way more important.

Could installing something like a ring camera inside a helicopter above the upper edge of the cabin window help somewhat? Again, I think it wouldn't have mattered in this case. On the video, the helicopter really emerges out of nowhere so I am thinking "disorientation or attention issue." But in general?

 

[Deleted member 39678]

I immediately Googled "can a helicopter have a moonroof?" Ans the answer was, no, but after that, Google took me to a video of a helicopter with a sunroof.

Much as I think it would be useless because you need to see the plane in advance, not when you are under it, I think a modification with a wide-angle camera inside, but on top of the helicopter, is not impossible. Like a tiny window above a window, but a camera?

Same with the NVG. I can see the benefit - it helps us see "in front of us", because the cones that are in the center of the retina function well in the bright light. So night vision goggles potentially "provide us with more cones."

The rods, that are functioning in the low light and concentrated in the periphery of the retina, help with peripheral vision, but do nothing for the center.

So is it possible that the NV goggles, while helping to see better at night in front of you, could potentially limit one's peripheral vision? So while helping to see the plane in front and ahead of the pilot (where he was probably looking), could the goggles cut off the wider horizon? (Above, and closer, where the ill-fated JRC was?)

Could installing something like a ring camera inside a helicopter above the upper edge of the cabin window help?

Probably would be easier to just keep helicopters away from this airports runway approach areas, especially at night. JMO.

 

[Charlot123]

Probably would be easier to just keep helicopters away from this airports runway approach areas, especially at night. JMO.

They might be needed, and they try to stay close to the airports, but they can have helipads anywhere.

 

[Deleted member 39678]

They might be needed, and they try to stay close to the airports, but they can have helipads anywhere.

Yes. The nice thing about helicopters is they don't need to use runways or their approaches. That means they can avoid them and the aircraft that have to use them. JMO.

 

[DS2021]

The Skater Who Stuck a Triple Axel Before Boarding the Flight

Cory Haynos was among several budding figure-skating stars who died in the plane crash near Reagan National Airport.

www.nytimes.com

Cory Haynos, who described himself on his Instagram as “Figure skater/basketball” and wrote “John 3:36 (look it up)”, was among those who died. His parents, Roger and Stephanie Haynos, died with him. The Bible verse says that people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life.

Cory Haynos’s training friend, Eddie Zhou, was on the plane, too. According to neighbors and co-workers of the family, both of his parents also died. Like Haynos, Zhou had executed a triple axel at the camp, Mitchell said.

 

[DS2021]

The Skater Who Stuck a Triple Axel Before Boarding the Flight

Cory Haynos was among several budding figure-skating stars who died in the plane crash near Reagan National Airport.

www.nytimes.com

The trip to the U.S. Figure Skating national development camp in Wichita, Kan., started out as a young figure skater's dream, and Cory Haynos, a teenager from Northern Virginia, was there to make a mark.

On Wednesday morning, after most of the 150 invited up-and-coming skaters had left and only the very top of the group maybe 40-45 athletes - remained for a special training session, Haynos launched himself forward into the air. He rotated in a blur, once, twice and a third time, like a human gyroscope, before landing on one foot, elated.

He had done it. Haynos had landed a triple axel, one of skating's hardest jumps. At the perfect time, too. He had landed his first clean one at the age of 16 in December, but this time the camp's coaches, there to scout and nurture the nation's future elite champions, saw him.

 

[iamshadow21]

Divers have searched all accessible areas.

Divers have searched all accessible areas, D.C. fire says

Divers have searched all the areas that are accessible in the Potomac River, the Washington Fire and Emergency Medical Services Department said this evening. “T

www.nbcnews.com

 

[Arkay]

The Skater Who Stuck a Triple Axel Before Boarding the Flight

Cory Haynos was among several budding figure-skating stars who died in the plane crash near Reagan National Airport.

www.nytimes.com

Cory Haynos, who described himself on his Instagram as “Figure skater/basketball” and wrote “John 3:36 (look it up)”, was among those who died. His parents, Roger and Stephanie Haynos, died with him. The Bible verse says that people who believe in Jesus will have eternal life.

Cory Haynos’s training friend, Eddie Zhou, was on the plane, too. According to neighbors and co-workers of the family, both of his parents also died. Like Haynos, Zhou had executed a triple axel at the camp, Mitchell said.

The Skater Who Stuck a Triple Axel Before Boarding the Flight

Cory Haynos was among several budding figure-skating stars who died in the plane crash near Reagan National Airport.

www.nytimes.com

The trip to the U.S. Figure Skating national development camp in Wichita, Kan., started out as a young figure skater's dream, and Cory Haynos, a teenager from Northern Virginia, was there to make a mark.

On Wednesday morning, after most of the 150 invited up-and-coming skaters had left and only the very top of the group maybe 40-45 athletes - remained for a special training session, Haynos launched himself forward into the air. He rotated in a blur, once, twice and a third time, like a human gyroscope, before landing on one foot, elated.

He had done it. Haynos had landed a triple axel, one of skating's hardest jumps. At the perfect time, too. He had landed his first clean one at the age of 16 in December, but this time the camp's coaches, there to scout and nurture the nation's future elite champions, saw him.

These kids seem to have been very focused and in love with ice-skating. I believe they would have had much to add to the planet.

I selfishly feel the loss of not getting to see some of them in a future Winter Olympics.

JMO