Death Penalty Vs Life in Prison and Why

[logicalgirl]

Well jon_burrows, you have really knocked my brain for a loop with your heart felt post.

I don't know if Americans realize that we Canucks have basically been brain washed from "birth" or almost in my case. I'm not really aware of when we had the death penalty, so I looked it up.

The reason I looked it up is because we have literally been brainwashed since the second world war to believe we are peace keepers. It is also implied by the far left, that this places us in a morally more superior space than those countries who still employ the death penalty. We're a gentle peace loving folk (the he77 we are!).

In 1966 Canada limited capital punishment only to those who were convicted of killing an on-duty police officer or a prison guard. In 1976, capitol punishment was abolished completely and replaced with life imprisonment with no chance of parole for 25 years. For whatever reason, in 1995, 69% of our population polled favored a return of the death penalty. In 1998 - only 48% favored a return.

Canada also may choose not to honor our extradition agreement with the States without the assurance of no death penalty but that seems to be decided on a case to case situation, although we make a big to do about it.

We do however have a nationally higher conviction rate for murders now life/death is no longer being decided. Apparently we find it easier to jail you for life than kill you.

I'm saying all this because I realize I respond to questions such as DP vs LWOP, without really understanding/feeling the full ramifications, but also I've just realized I haven't had the opportunity to make a clear choice, in reality. It's just blah blah if there isn't actually a choice.

What's my point in this rambling? Three significant things have happened to make this a clear choice for me. The Clifford Olson case (a serial child murderer) the Robert Pickton case (a serial killer of disadvantaged women) and the day I stood and cried with my fellow Canadians watching the horror of your Twin Towers burn.

Given the opportunity, I would bring the death penalty back. So thank you jon_burrows for reminding me where I actually do stand. And blessings to your friend, I hope she has found peace.

 

[kaRN]

I want to thank you all for this thread - it is so thought provoking to me as a Canadian. We don't have the death penalty so it isn't something our juries face. I go back and forth on my own beliefs and if it was my child who was raped and/or killed? If I'm really honest with myself I think I might be looking for a gun.

''Fellow Cdn here and ITA. I live downtown and hear gun fire from my window more often than I care to mention. In my neighbourhood it's the YO's having their gang banging fun. If caught they're protected, their names, and identities completely hidden with slaps on the wrists to follow for crimes like murder.
If a loved one is murdered by a youth in Canada, kiss any thought of justice goodbye. I would take the same action as you if my child was slaughtered. Then I'd call 911 on myself and apply to University for a graduate proram, a really expensive one, maybe 2. Woohoo free tuition for those who deserve it most. :banghead:
We paid for Karla Homolka's degrees in Psychology and Womens Studies. I kid you not.

 

[logicalgirl]

''Fellow Cdn here and ITA. I live downtown and hear gun fire from my window more often than I care to mention. In my neighbourhood it's the YO's having their gang banging fun. If caught they're protected, their names, and identities completely hidden with slaps on the wrists to follow for crimes like murder.
If a loved one is murdered by a youth in Canada, kiss any thought of justice goodbye. I would take the same action as you if my child was slaughtered. Then I'd call 911 on myself and apply to University for a graduate proram, a really expensive one, maybe 2. Woohoo free tuition for those who deserve it most. :banghead:
We paid for Karla Homolka's degrees in Psychology and Womens Studies. I kid you not.

We sure did! That's another thing that rots my socks! :banghead:

Plenty of people who could and should complete a degree can't afford it anymore because we've raised our tuition higher to catch the well heeled foreign students. But commit a capital crime and there's your education - paid for in total, no problem. :furious:

I agree about the justice for a youth who murders. However we have an interesting situation happening in a suburb close by. A lovely 15 year girl, popular, an athlete, great student, was beaten to death on a sunny Saturday afternoon at 1:30PM, as she took a shortcut through a park mere yards from where her friends were waiting.

The girl's father is a hell's angel "friend" or member. Everyday, two riders silently drive by the spot , at 1:30PM, where she was found. I see vigilante justice coming down the road. Whoever did this better hope the police find him first.

 

[Kat]

I already posted about my thoughts on KC's sentencing options.

IMH about the two sentences that KC will possibly face (just the two now could be more later on, we have to wait and see the outcome of the trial etc...)

1. I find it highly unlikely she will be sentenced to death. If she is I'll probably fall out of my chair over here and won't be able to get up. But, IMHO given what we've seen of KC's psychological makeup this would be the one that would have the most impact on her in the long run.

2. LWOP~ IMHO, KC is of a personality disorder that will afford her the luxury of not only surviving but thriving in whatever environment she finds herself. She may have a few months of frustration at her situation, but once she is housed in a facility and can move about within the population she will make alliances quickly. JMHO.

But more importantly, IMHO her personality disorder being as severe as it is, she will never reflect back on the murder of Caylee. She will never stop to evaluate why she is there and she will always view herself as the victim in all of this. Seriously, IMHO she could sit in prison every day for the rest of her life and still not get the magnitude of her actions. IMHO she is incapable of feeling remorse. I just don't think time in prison is going to do that for her, but of the two sentences I'm inclined to think that she will probably get LWOP.

So while I really don't care which sentencing option that the Jury chooses for her, I really don't think that she's going to suffer any once she settles in. She accept the sentence, appeal it until kingdom come but all the while she will be making alliances, manipulating other inmates and possibly prison officials and workers to create a world in which she is queen within her mind KWIM?

Just some further thoughts I had about her sentencing options.

 

[shotzie]

I’m very sorry for your loss. My friend’s husband was murdered and she wanted the DP too, the jury agreed, and he was executed. I can understand why your sister chose LWOP because the appeals were excruciating and that’s putting it mildly. She felt she had to attend every single court hearing so she sat in the same room with that monster for the trial, guilt phase, and his appeals. The appeals were never about guilt, guilt was proven beyond a shadow of a doubt. They were always about finding a loophole to let the monster go or reduce his sentence. He fought the DP to the bitter end just like most murderers on DR. They have no problem killing but they are terrified of the DP. Almost all of them would rather live in prison than be executed which is exactly how I think Casey feels. Given the choice between LWOP or the DP I have no doubt she would rather get LWOP. There is always a glimmer of hope that one of her appeals works, she’ll get a reduced sentence, and eventually get out to roam freely again putting society in harm’s way.

My friend’s murderer complained about not getting to do the things he wanted to do. Sound familiar? Casey words, “My life has been taken from me.” He never gave a thought to the family he destroyed nor the life he took and the pain and suffering his victim went through. Never an ounce of remorse for what he did, just that he got caught. His death was nothing like the death his victim endured. He was given a shot and simply went to sleep. I don’t think Casey gives any thought or cares about the suffering Caylee went through or what she took from her. She continued on with her partying and seemed to thrive without Casey. She even flirted with Baez as they were discussing Caylee’s remains. She simply doesn’t care and never will. It’s all about her and what makes her happy.

I take great offense to the idea that we are a ‘kill-happy’ species. My friend and her husband were the most non-violent people you will ever meet. It would break her heart to hear someone say something like that. I never even heard them utter one curse word let alone commit any crimes or inflict pain on anyone else. Their only goal in life was to get financially set so she could be a stay-at-home mom and they could raise children. He never got to enjoy another day on this earth, let alone experience the joy of fatherhood because a murderer decided to kill him. My friend wanted justice and for her justice was the DP. Thankfully a jury agreed. She would have had to spend the rest of her life worried about him escaping, hurting others, getting out via some technicality, etc. She never knew from day to day if she was going to get a call from the prosecutor telling her that another appeal was coming. This would have been hanging over her head her entire life. The DP didn’t bring her husband back but it brought great relief knowing she would never have to see, hear, or worry about him again and that justice was finally served. He will never harm another person. The killer had a choice, he chose to kill and he knew the penalty.

I think Casey should get the DP. She shouldn’t be allowed to carve a life for herself in prison which I have no doubt she will. She will most likely have flings with some guards and enjoy getting away with any rule she can break. She seems to take pride in that and even brags about it. I was stunned to see all the activities the prison offers -- aerobics, yoga, intramural sports, and much more. Caylee will never get to do these things so why should Casey? DR is completely different. They eat all their meals in their cell so she would never get to chat with others during dinner or take advantage of all the activities. I agree with a previous post, she thrives on human contact and conning others. If she gets the DP she will be in solitary confinement for the most part. She will only get to socialize with other DR inmates which is currently only one. She will have to be in hand cuffs every time she leaves her cell. She will feel the sting of true punishment on DR. If she gets LWOP she will make friends and get to enjoy small pleasures in prison. She will adapt as we’ve already seen in her jail letters. She may have to go into protective custody in the beginning but as time passes and memories fade, she’ll assimilate into general population, just like Susan Smith. I heard Scott Peterson plays basketball, made friends, and adapted quite well to prison (even on DR) but California is entirely different than Florida. Everyone thought they would both be killed in prison but I think it’s really a myth about child killers not doing well in prison. It’s extremely rare to hear of a child killer being killed in prison.

Caylee never got a chance to have dreams or goals, go to school, make friends, giggle all night at slumber parties, have her first dance, date, fall in love, marry, have children. She never got a chance at doing anything. Casey knew the consequences of murder. If you don’t’ want the DP, jail, or LWOP, don’t kill. It’s that simple. If she gets the DP, her death will be nothing like the torture Caylee went through, NOTHING. She will be given a needle and go to sleep, hardly the way she killed Caylee.

I hope I haven’t offended anyone who is against the DP. Everyone has the right to their opinion and I respect that. I completely agree with Shotzi, you never really know what it’s like unless it hits close to home and it wasn’t even my family. Although I saw their pain, I will never truly understand what it’s like to walk in their shoes. Just because Caylee doesn’t have any family members wanting justice for her doesn’t mean she doesn’t deserve the same justice as if she had 20 family members sitting on the prosecutor’s side of the court room.

IMO

Thank YOU!!! The bottom line is..when it happens to you you have a different view..

 

[Jolynna]

Casey will thrive in prison.

Karla Homolka managed to have two passionate affairs while paying her debt to society. Instead of atoning, repenting or suffering from remorse Homalka happily killed time playing games with her lovers and churning out page after page of childish lovey-dovey letters on puppy dog paper to keep them hot for her favors. She also got a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology from a correspondence course. She saw counselors and therapists and went through "programs" to get help for her "problems". (Psychopaths love to talk about themselves so that won't be a hardship for Casey.)

Susan Smith found two (that we know about) prison guard lovers. She is on an online prison meet-men site. Prison (like her deceased children) appears to be merely another challenge to Smith's man-chasing obsession.

I think Homalker, Smith and Ms. Anthony are birds of a feather. Only Casey will adapt even better to prison life. She CHOSE to stay trapped in her parent's house year after year texting and instant messaging instead of having a real life with responsibilities. I see a structured environment where other people take care of her as right up Casey's alley. The joys of secret trysts, smuggled-in contraband and fan mail will be icing on Casey's cake.

 

[ynotdivein]

Casey will thrive in prison.

Karla Homolka managed to have two passionate affairs while paying her debt to society. Instead of atoning, repenting or suffering from remorse Homalka happily killed time by churning out page after page of childish lovey-dovey letters on puppy dog paper and kept her lovers hot for her favors. She got a Bachelor's Degree in Psychology from a correspondence course. She saw counselors and therapists.

Susan Smith found two (that we know about) prison guard lovers. She is on an online prison meet-men site.

I think Homalker, Smith and Ms. Anthony are birds of a feather. Only Casey will adapt even better to prison life. She CHOSE to stay trapped in her parent's house year after year texting and instant messaging instead of having a real life with responsibilities. I see a structured environment where other people take care of her as right up Casey's alley.

RBBM.

Jolynna, I think you are absolutely right. KC thrives on the attention of others. If she did well in a structured environment where others took care of her, then I say, may her punishment be to be placed in an unstructured environment, where no one is "taking care of" her and no one gives her any special treatment.

I can't say whether I am de facto for or against capital punishment, but I can say with complete surety that I am ABSOLUTELY AGAINST giving any remorseless killer any kind of environment where they can thrive.

If I had the power to know the most secret, deepest fears of the man who killed my sister-in-law's mother with a screwdriver, and to wield those fears against him, I would visit them upon him in his every waking hour. I don't want him to die. I want him to face dire extremity every time he falls asleep and to start awake in the morning expecting the worst.

She had to experience it once. Her family and friends experience it again and again when a random scent or sound or memory reminds them of the life he stole from them, and how. I wish there were a way to make him experience it every single moment of every single day of his life.

I know that this is not what the Bible teaches. I also know that death is not the worst--or best--punishment for every crime.

 

[Sdavidson11]

I too know where you are coming from. I am haunted nightly from the man who kidnapped, raped and tortured me. I too know what the bible teaches and after all these years still feel unworthy as I can not forgive him that trespassed against me.

I am so sorry for your loss. Duct tape was used on me and that is why Caylee is so close to my heart cause I know the feeling of helplessness. Whatever can cause ICA the most discomfort is what I desire. As said above her type will thrive in the prison atmosphere so at least we can hope mommy will be in there too so no money for commisary.

 

[SindyBill]

I too know where you are coming from. I am haunted nightly from the man who kidnapped, raped and tortured me. I too know what the bible teaches and after all these years still feel unworthy as I can not forgive him that trespassed against me.

I am so sorry for your loss. Duct tape was used on me and that is why Caylee is so close to my heart cause I know the feeling of helplessness. Whatever can cause ICA the most discomfort is what I desire. As said above her type will thrive in the prison atmosphere so at least we can hope mommy will be in there too so no money for commisary.

Oh my. Bless your heart. There are no words for what you were subjected to.

 

[SindyBill]

If she lives in prison i can see here on dating sites for inmates..making alliances as others have said..and any interaction she may have with people in the jail it will be like she's trying to prove she's not who everyone thinks she is. i think she'll gussy up to people and try to gain popularity, even if just in her own mind. i think she'll always think of herself as better than the other inmates in jail with her, maybe look at some as dregs of society and think of herself better than them. why? because she basically dismisses Caylee's murder. MOO

 

[Just Jayla]

Here is another thnig I consider when I think about this, and it is probably not acceptable thinking to some, I know it is very judgemental and maybe over simplified-Human beings are animals. We do have brain capacities unlike any other creature and we are surely set apart from other creatures of the Earth purposefully (whether from a Biblical or a Darwinian standpoint). However, we are inately capable of very cruel and violent behavior, and our brains are very capable of such animalistic behaviors that we try to educate, punish and condemn those thoughts out of one another in this thing we call a society, from a very early age.
But there are outliers. There are those that refuse to join us in this civilized system.
When you make the choice to kill someone, with malicious intent, knowing the hurt it will cause, knowing the societal implications, knowing you are risking your life and most of all, purposely putting aside your own fear and heightened senses, as surely KC felt during the murder, you have become an animal. You cannot live in the same evolved world the rest of us live in. Casey crossed a brink most of us will never know, and it is only easier now for her to cross that threshold again, with less fear.
JMO, and like I wrote, I know it seems cruel in a way to talk about KC like she's a vicious dog that should be put down, but some would say that the vicious dog was only acting out of fear. She used the higher intellect that we have been given against another human with calculated intent, not out of fear for herself or her loved ones. Can she ever be a functional member of any society, even a prison soceity?

 

[fryhisbutt]

Here is another thnig I consider when I think about this, and it is probably not acceptable thinking to some, I know it is very judgemental and maybe over simplified-Human beings are animals. We do have brain capacities unlike any other creature and we are surely set apart from other creatures of the Earth purposefully (whether from a Biblical or a Darwinian standpoint). However, we are inately capable of very cruel and violent behavior, and our brains are very capable of such animalistic behaviors that we try to educate, punish and condemn those thoughts out of one another in this thing we call a society, from a very early age.
But there are outliers. There are those that refuse to join us in this civilized system.
When you make the choice to kill someone, with malicious intent, knowing the hurt it will cause, knowing the societal implications, knowing you are risking your life and most of all, purposely putting aside your own fear and heightened senses, as surely KC felt during the murder, you have become an animal. You cannot live in the same evolved world the rest of us live in. Casey crossed a brink most of us will never know, and it is only easier now for her to cross that threshold again, with less fear.
JMO, and like I wrote, I know it seems cruel in a way to talk about KC like she's a vicious dog that should be put down, but some would say that the vicious dog was only acting out of fear. She used the higher intellect that we have been given against another human with calculated intent, not out of fear for herself or her loved ones. Can she ever be a functional member of any society, even a prison soceity?

ITA...

The part that sickens me the most though is that she murdered a helpless child. And for the reasons I believe she did it (to sleep around and party) make it even more heinous. If she has killed to protect I would have a totally different opinion. She killed to get a life that she didn't have. She killed to be free and I believe she killed to hurt her family and take away their one pride and joy that she was so jealous of.

Like I said I completely agree with you and I believe she is the rabid dog and she should be "put down"....

IMHO

 

[LambChop]

Brings a whole new meaning to "green-eyed monster".

 

[charok]

Back to the topic, if this case does not deserve a DP sentence, I don't know of 1 that does. The 1 person who Caylee should have been 100% safe with killed her and threw her in the woods. Then partied hard for a month before CIndy insisted ICA tell her where Caylee was. She has no remorse IMO.

She deserves to die IMO.

and lets not forget when ca DID insist on where baby was, kc spun ANOTHER lie, the imaginanny...just to bide time for caylee to rot and destory any forensic evidence...(how she was killed?drugs? suffocated?)
i did say lwop but reading back, shed be a celebrity in there, have her own bodyguards, see her family, get letters from her fans, ect.
i again say isolate/ death...no lethal injection=fire up ol sparky.

 

[OneLostGrl]

I used to be a huge believer in the death penalty but I find I'm really not so much anymore. There are too many "fixed" cases with DNA and other evidence planted, prosecuters & judges lying and innocent people being put to death. Until those issues are dealt with (in the proper manner) I can't advocate a death sentence for anyone. There is a huge problem with our society when our "authority figures" are OK with and planning (framing) the murders of innocent people. Who's the criminal here anymore? It's too hard for me to tell the difference (and I can spot a con anywhere!) and I can't (and won't) blindly believe in their "evidence" when a persons life is at stake.

yup, I'm a convicted criminal.. but I have a very difficult time with anyone who chooses to lie about and deny the damage they caused others by their criminal acts (man up and admit your faults, quit blaming everyone else!) But what makes me SICK are those who use their status.. their -authority- to pretend they are serving justice, helping the people when what they are really doing is commiting crimes and then to make it even worse, escaping punishment because of their status.

I know my opinion will not be well liked but there it is. :blowkiss:

 

[Horace Finklestein]

I used to be a huge believer in the death penalty but I find I'm really not so much anymore. There are too many "fixed" cases with DNA and other evidence planted, prosecuters & judges lying and innocent people being put to death. Until those issues are dealt with (in the proper manner) I can't advocate a death sentence for anyone. There is a huge problem with our society when our "authority figures" are OK with and planning (framing) the murders of innocent people. Who's the criminal here anymore? It's too hard for me to tell the difference (and I can spot a con anywhere!) and I can't (and won't) blindly believe in their "evidence" when a persons life is at stake.

yup, I'm a convicted criminal.. but I have a very difficult time with anyone who chooses to lie about and deny the damage they caused others by their criminal acts (man up and admit your faults, quit blaming everyone else!) But what makes me SICK are those who use their status.. their -authority- to pretend they are serving justice, helping the people when what they are really doing is commiting crimes and then to make it even worse, escaping punishment because of their status.

I know my opinion will not be well liked but there it is. :blowkiss:

It's kind of silly to think that happens on a large scale. Yes there have been screw ups, but it's not as if cops and prosecutors are randomly targeting people for fun. Why would they throw their lives and careers away? I'd wager that 99.9% of the time, they have the right person as the accused.

 

[Mariah]

This crime and the personality of the alleged perpetrator are so horrific and disgusting that I vote for the death penalty. As a former prison nurse, I know that an alarmimg number of people like casey are able to adapt and even thrive in prison, They live, usually, without having to do much in the way of physical labor. Fame is a big ego booster. There will always be those adoring men who write and many propose. She will be the center of attention or at least one of them. Thats all she has ever wanted.

As far as a deterrent....the only deterrent I care about is that Casey will never have another child to kill and she will not be able to kill her parents as I believe she intended to do.

Having a nursing degree and certified in psychiatric and mental health nursing, I can see that she enjoys the attention and has no clue that she may not get away with this crime. She is a true psychopath/antisocial personality disorder and view others only as what value they have to her.
Empathy for others is not possible.

I've known others somewhat like her but most were men, never a woman who is so cold and manipulating. The most horrifying part of this is that her mental disorder does not prevent her from knowing right from wrong, she is not psychotic and hearing voices and most likely is proud of herself for the way she has lived and been able to fool others ( and continue to do so). There is no effective treatment or medication for this personality disorder.
As long as she is alive she will thrive and manipulate her way through life. Unfortunately she will snare many who will believe in her.

This is just my opinion. I'm normally not a big death penalty advocate.

 

[chefmom]

I too know where you are coming from. I am haunted nightly from the man who kidnapped, raped and tortured me. I too know what the bible teaches and after all these years still feel unworthy as I can not forgive him that trespassed against me.

I am so sorry for your loss. Duct tape was used on me and that is why Caylee is so close to my heart cause I know the feeling of helplessness. Whatever can cause ICA the most discomfort is what I desire. As said above her type will thrive in the prison atmosphere so at least we can hope mommy will be in there too so no money for commisary.

:blowkiss:

 

[ZsaZsa]

I used to be a huge believer in the death penalty but I find I'm really not so much anymore. There are too many "fixed" cases with DNA and other evidence planted, prosecuters & judges lying and innocent people being put to death. Until those issues are dealt with (in the proper manner) I can't advocate a death sentence for anyone. There is a huge problem with our society when our "authority figures" are OK with and planning (framing) the murders of innocent people. Who's the criminal here anymore? It's too hard for me to tell the difference (and I can spot a con anywhere!) and I can't (and won't) blindly believe in their "evidence" when a persons life is at stake.

yup, I'm a convicted criminal.. but I have a very difficult time with anyone who chooses to lie about and deny the damage they caused others by their criminal acts (man up and admit your faults, quit blaming everyone else!) But what makes me SICK are those who use their status.. their -authority- to pretend they are serving justice, helping the people when what they are really doing is commiting crimes and then to make it even worse, escaping punishment because of their status.

I know my opinion will not be well liked but there it is. :blowkiss:

Do you really think any of that applies to Casey?

 

[iluvmua]

If a jury can sentence a woman who helped kidnapped and elderly couple and bury them alive the death penalty then SURELY they can sentence Casey for killing her own child.

Personally, I think she would suffer the most with the DP. If she gets LIP there is NO garantee that she will be in general pop. with everyone else. She may be protected and isolated from all the others the rest of her life.

She's a murderer so treat her like one.

I just hope that whoever is on the Jury will see past the fact that Casey was an unwed single mother and see what a cold blooded monster she really is.

and I hope that Ashton & Burdick deliver a grand slam performance when it comes to telling members of the jury what Caylee went through and what Casey was doing while her little girl was missing so maybe members of the jury will decide to send her to Death Row instead of her "Dorm" for the rest of her life.