Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #1

[SuziQ]

Exactly. They aren't drugging a lot of people...just the one and then systematically waiting for them to be alone. Now that doesn't make sense, does it? You are right. How do they know they aren't going to go with their friends at some point?

One thing I noted on Chris' case in the paperwork was the discrepancy between the head bouncer and the other three. The other three indicate they were given orders by him to kick Chris out and not allow him back in. Then he totally rebutts them and they shut up. Did anyone catch that?

I noticed that too. Now what would be the big deal about saying you kicked someone out of the bar? Bouncers rightly have to do that all the time.

 

[RR0004]

...on godlikeproductions it says there was...and a second suspect who was in an out of state jail. Now this was a couple of years ago so I'm not sure whatever became of them.

 

[SuziQ]

If there is one killer as such, he may drug someone every time he goes out, but he might not have a 100% pick up rate if that makes sense. Which maybe why there is no absolute pattern of Friday nights oevery second week, just groups of months.... I wish I had better ability to get whats in my brain out.

He waits until the perfect set of circumstances come into play and makes his move.

 

[Salem]

How about a nutty (adjunct) professor? Adjunct profs do stints at various colleges and university—sometimes, more than one, even, during any given semester.

Its a good possibility. Do they work like substitute teachers? A week here, a week there? Does each state require its own license so that whoever this professor might be, he/she would have to have a license to teach in each of these states the victims are coming from? Or do you even need a license at the college level, is that just for grammer/high school?

If this is only one or two people, they appear to travel frequently. If the Alaska case is related, maybe they were on vacation?

I'm beginning to think we have two perps, minimum, here. I think that is because of the way the "friend separation" and the "drugs" are involved.


Salem

 

[RR0004]

What I've noticed reading through a lot of these stories is that someone in the bar notices HOW DRUNK these guys "seem"...some later have showed very little BAC. Now, that could be the effect of a drug.

 

[RR0004]

Before I call it a night, I also think it's quite plausible that someone outside throws them in a van.

 

[SuziQ]

But the band would stop 1/2 hour or so before the bar closed and bands often use vans to carry their equipment in.....

What is the difference between a "cargo" van and a regular van?

Salem

And most of these guys vanish at or near closing time. Bands travel. And they usually use a cargo van. A cargo van is boxier with no windows in the back like a passenger van would have. They also don't have back seats. Just the two up front.

 

[shadowraiths]

What is the difference between a "cargo" van and a regular van?

A cargo van doesn't have windows in the back section. Here's an example of what they look like.

 

[SuziQ]

RR, true. The level of intoxication doesn't always match the BAC. And remember Chris' mother mentions that he was driven around in a van.

 

[Salem]

Okay - I'm thinking this band thing shows some real good possibilities. Now it is time to see if any of these bars had live music and if so, who....

Only - I have a headache and have to go to bed now so it will have to wait till tomorrow.

Thank you SusieQ & Shadow for the cargo van descriptions!

And I agree RR - I think it is very important that some folks thought these young men might have been pretty drunk when in fact they were not.

Night all!

Salem

 

[shadowraiths]

And remember Chris' mother mentions that he was driven around in a van.

That's one of the things that had me :waitasec:

She also mentioned that he was tortured. Yet, when the talking head pointed out that they found no signs of physical trauma, she (or one of the detectives, don't recall which) said he was mentally tortured. Which again had me :waitasec:

 

[RR0004]

Night everyone. Hold down the fort!!

Those cargo vans seem to be the mode of transportation for all kinds of abductions. It seems to explain their disappearance "into thin air", as was mentioned.

 

[SuziQ]

I keep remembering that Brian Schaffer told his friends he was going to go up and talk to the band. He's then on video outside the front doors talking to some girls, goes back in and is never seen going back out. There was an employee entrance door that had a camera that took a pic everytime someone came or went through that door. Brian was never found in those pics. How the heck did he leave the bar? Was he stuffed inside something? A fricken drumset case or something? I sure would like to see the pics of the employee entrance.

Shado, Mom's comment was puzzling. But I'm thinking she's gotten good info about a van. Probably from the detectives?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

And from my understanding, they've actually closed that case. :waitasec:

Yes, but that was before it was declared a Homicide. Now, they have no suspect or POI...and have also decided not to pursue it further. WTH?!

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I think it is possible she got the information from the PI and not the detectives. If you recall, they were given information that he was taken to a cargo van in the parking garage where part of the feather was found. According to those reports, it was part of the gang which confronted him outside.

I think the band might be out of the question. By the time they get their gear loaded up into whatever they have (it isn't always a cargo van!)...it is usually getting very early into the wee hours well after 2:00 am. They don't load out until the bar officially closes as a rule. I also don't know many bands that don't have buddies hanging out with them until then either.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I hope this case goes to fruition and they close many of these cases in spite of LE's efforts to thwart them. I know many of you disagree with me calling LE and the FBI into question time and time again...but if what these men (might I mention are highly decorated retired LE officers) are saying is true...then it will show how ineffective these agencies have been when it comes to missing person cases across the country. It could be the best thing that ever happened to forward how things are approached with LE in the future. One of the smartest things that the Jenkins did was to hire a PI to run a parallel investigation. I applaud them!

 

[aussie_mum]

I didn't want to start another thread, but how about Justin Gaines as another possible victim?

http://websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55860&highlight=college+student+body

Justin Gaines, 18, college student missing in Atlanta
GWINNETT COUNTY, Ga. -- A college student has been reported missing when he did not come home after going out to Wild Bill's in Gwinnett County.

Officials said they have started an investigation into the case of an 18-year-old missing since Thursday night. Gwinnett County authorities said Justin Gaines' mother filed a police report Sunday after he didn't return home.

According to the police report, Gaine's mother, Erika Wilson, said that her son came home Thursday and told her he was going out with friends. He was dropped off at Wild Bill's that night. Later that evening, Gaines called a friend to pick him up but the friend told him he couldn't. Gaines has not been seen or heard from since.

Also http://www.charleyproject.org/cases/k/knapp_jason.html not exactly the same either but also a male college student.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Absolutely he should be included in the lists! I will get right on making a thread for people in his area. Thanks and keep it up! There are so many around the country which have many similarities that we should be aware of here. Great job!

 

[shadowraiths]

I think it is possible she got the information from the PI and not the detectives. If you recall, they were given information that he was taken to a cargo van in the parking garage where part of the feather was found. According to those reports, it was part of the gang which confronted him outside.

Oh, that's right. The feather in the parking garage! I completely forgot about that. Thanks for the reminder! So that explains the van theory. What is still questionable is the mental torture allegation.

Imho, unless they can provide some sort of credible evidence that said psychological torture was over and above what a kidnap victim experiences, then the torture comment really makes no sense. And, while, the stages an abductee experiences can most certainly be characterized as torturous, such is not technically considered psychological torture. Nor can it be assumed that he was psychologically tortured without some sort of reliable and valid corroborating evidence.

If however they do have compelling evidence that this is the case, then that really raises the bar for this alleged group of killers. For example, physical torture can be carried out by thugs. Those who really know what they're doing can carry out such without leaving visible signs of trauma. Though, a thorough autopsy would still reveal signs of physical torture. Psychological torture on the other hand requires a great deal of sophistication and reasonable knowledge as it pertains to psychology. Which means someone with knowledge in the field would be involved. And, if it's pods, as they claim, then it would need to be several someones with said knowledge.

Whatever the case, it will be most interesting to hear what they come up with.

 

[aussie_mum]

Absolutely he should be included in the lists! I will get right on making a thread for people in his area. Thanks and keep it up! There are so many around the country which have many similarities that we should be aware of here. Great job!

Thanks ss. I am still fairly new to this and just throw ideas around here and there every so often. I was too shy to start a thread on him.:blushing: But I hope either way excluded or included it is helpful.