Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #3

[Blink34]

I really think we shouldn't put so much weight on the "smileys" in sense of those wearing the t-shirts and other smiley sold items. Anyone who really is involved in the group (the group of killers being obviously organized) would not go about wearing a t-shirt with a smiley on it. The shirts were sold in the 90's and before, and after as well; people will market what they can. I really wish we had something else to go by to connect them aside from that graffiti and the similarities of the victims.
I also don't think it's any gang of Mexicans or Native Americans. Whoever is killing, has to fit into their mostly white surroundings..

Can somebody tell me what a "mostly white surrounding" is?
Just as a curiosity- why do the killers have to blend at all. We all know these cases went missing after being seperated from friends, and were alone- why would we assume they have to be the same as the victim?

 

[Blink34]

There are more like 12 additions since April 26, 2008. And, while I have been updating the crime map as info becomes available, updating the stats thread is a manual and somewhat tedious proc (even with the excel macros). I have updated the thread and will continue to do so as time permits.That is, until I've finished my proggie that models the vicap report, which is designed to auto-gen the stats & graphs, as well as providing a means to update/add data as it becomes available. The proggie also has a hook for updating my crime maps (to include automated geocoding) as well.

Shadow-
affectionally, I have no clue what you just said, nor do I care. I know that you have generated scores of research and articles dating back years before anyone had the sense to link these cases and you are a tremendous resource for both this thread and related info as well.

For those of you that are on this thread to CONTRIBUTE, you are to be applauded.

 

[SheerLuck]

I really wish we had something else to go by to connect them aside from that graffiti and the similarities of the victims.
I also don't think it's any gang of Mexicans or Native Americans. Whoever is killing, has to fit into their mostly white surroundings..

As you say; this could be anyone or any group and since the detectives choose to give the public next to nothing; the odds of getting any help from the public are slim and none. But they say the cracked the case and have names of the killers so I guess the case is solved and arrests are pending, right?
I agree with you also that if the killers are first socializing with their victims before luring them into a van, then most likely they would want to fit in a mostly white surrounding, but if their approach is to just forcefully get the kid in a van from a sidewalk setting; then this could be anyone doing this; be it young, old, black, white, tan, male or female. I would ad though that Mexicans and natives can fit in very well with a mostly white surrounding--the ones I knew when I was younger were are good hearted and they liked to drink and have fun

 

[SheerLuck]

I really think we shouldn't put so much weight on the "smileys" in sense of those wearing the t-shirts and other smiley sold items.

Well, as you say though; we're given next to nothing but smileys to work with, so I like SS's idea to post pictures of anything that's from a bar or party where a kid was last seen. You just never know what SS or someone else might stumble on. Here's something that has nothing to do with our case here but it shows how SS or someone else could post a picture that could help: The pipe bomber from 6 years ago(Luke Helder) drove around America planting pipe bombs with the intention of picking mail boxes that would draw a map of a smiley face. When arrested he said he was anti government and a huge Nirvana fan. So what did Nirvana have to do with anything here? As odd as it may seem; he got the smiley face idea from a Nirvana LP and CD which had a black cover with a yellow smiley face. The cover art was made into a very popular Nirvana t-shirt, which was a huge seller and still is today. This kid played in a popular bar band and when he was arrested he had a Nirvana t-shirt on. I do not think we have another obsessed Nirvana fan in the current drowning case, but my point is that you just never know what someone here might stumble on, with any pics that they post; from bars these kids were last seen at.

 

[SheerLuck]

Can somebody tell me what a "mostly white surrounding" is?
Just as a curiosity- why do the killers have to blend at all. We all know these cases went missing after being seperated from friends, and were alone- why would we assume they have to be the same as the victim?

A "mostly white surrouding" is just what it sounds like--it would be a bar, a party, an event or any social setting that has mostly white people in attendance. The killers might be blending in first or they might not be blending in first. No way of knowiing either way. Could also be a mix of both

 

[rookiewserinmpls]

Hi,

I have been lurking here for a few weeks and decided to create an account to add this local news link because I haven't seen it here yet.

It is pretty clear that they don't think there is a real serial killer (other than alcohol), but it's an interesting watch nonetheless.

http://www.myfoxtwincities.com/myfo...ale=EN-US&layoutCode=VSTY&pageId=1.1.1&sflg=1

-Rookie

 

[MeoW333]

Can somebody tell me what a "mostly white surrounding" is?
Just as a curiosity- why do the killers have to blend at all. We all know these cases went missing after being seperated from friends, and were alone- why would we assume they have to be the same as the victim?

Well in the one case, the rumor that the one young man was talking to 3 hispanic girls; which no one remembered any there at the party. So in what i meant by "white surrounding" was that if most everyone there was white, they would notice someone who wasn't unless it was someone within their own personal group of friends. If someone is going to be serial killing, they're going to want to try and blend in with the environment where there victims are so they do not stand out so that someone can be like, "oh i remember this person who stood out who was there that night" therefore incriminating themself.
Blink, they don't have to blend in, although it would smarter if they did so as not to attract attention to themself. If a white serial killer looks for victims in a Mexican bar, don't you think someone would notice them out of place that night? (example)
I don't mean anything racial by this; it's just a more practical idea for the killers.

 

[MeoW333]

I really think we shouldn't put so much weight on the "smileys" in sense of those wearing the t-shirts and other smiley sold items.

Well, as you say though; we're given next to nothing but smileys to work with, so I like SS's idea to post pictures of anything that's from a bar or party where a kid was last seen. You just never know what SS or someone else might stumble on. Here's something that has nothing to do with our case here but it shows how SS or someone else could post a picture that could help: The pipe bomber from 6 years ago(Luke Helder) drove around America planting pipe bombs with the intention of picking mail boxes that would draw a map of a smiley face. When arrested he said he was anti government and a huge Nirvana fan. So what did Nirvana have to do with anything here? As odd as it may seem; he got the smiley face idea from a Nirvana LP and CD which had a black cover with a yellow smiley face. The cover art was made into a very popular Nirvana t-shirt, which was a huge seller and still is today. This kid played in a popular bar band and when he was arrested he had a Nirvana t-shirt on. I do not think we have another obsessed Nirvana fan in the current drowning case, but my point is that you just never know what someone here might stumble on, with any pics that they post; from bars these kids were last seen at.

There is so much merchandise with smileys out there is why i said that. SS did bring up in another post, that once the detectives start to release names that are also tagged, we'll have more to work with then.
The only thing we have aside from smileys are the profiles of the victims, all of the young men being similar in appearance.
SS' idea of finding pictures from bars the nights the young men went missing, is an excellent idea, as perhaps the killer or killers are in one!

 

[looneymama]

Well in the one case, the rumor that the one young man was talking to 3 hispanic girls; which no one remembered any there at the party. So in what i meant by "white surrounding" was that if most everyone there was white, they would notice someone who wasn't unless it was someone within their own personal group of friends. If someone is going to be serial killing, they're going to want to try and blend in with the environment where there victims are so they do not stand out so that someone can be like, "oh i remember this person who stood out who was there that night" therefore incriminating themself.
Blink, they don't have to blend in, although it would smarter if they did so as not to attract attention to themself. If a white serial killer looks for victims in a Mexican bar, don't you think someone would notice them out of place that night? (example)
I don't mean anything racial by this; it's just a more practical idea for the killers.

I don't know about any of the other bars but the Lone Tree, where Chris Jenkins was last seen, usually has a very diverse crowd.

As far as the music approach goes to that bar, it's usually dj's. I don't know if they ever have bands. I don't think so.

 

[looneymama]

In some cases, the men were separated from there phones because they were thrown out of the bar. I find it deplorable if it is standard practice not to allow someone to collect their belongings or to have one of the bouncers escort them for that purpose. I have NEVER heard of it happening here. Yet in a couple or so cases here...it is another commonality.

I agree about Chris' so-called GF. Something is very wrong with that whole scenario. I am telling you...women her age don't normally act the way she did about her BF not being around at the end of the night or not coming home at all!! She knows something.

I agree. I read the police report when the story aired on tv and I remember telling my fiance how I thought it was strange that she had no idea who he really talked to that night or what he did because they pretty much went their separate ways once they arrived. It just seemed strange to me, especially since they'd only been dating for six weeks. I guess I just thought that early on in a relationship was still the part where things are kind of new and you really want to be around the other person as much as possible.

Also from my experience with working in that type of place or dating someone that works at a place like that, the relationships between people that work together in places like that can sometimes be pretty tight. This can be good and bad if you are dating someone that works in that type of environment. The situation at the Lone Tree seemed strange to me because I would think that if the girlfriend worked there and they knew her, they would probably be like "hey, your boyfriend is getting out of hand you need to chill him out or get him out of here." Unless of course they wanted him to leave and her to stay...which I guess isn't too far fetched if she were wearing one of the bouncer's police uniform shirts (I have read that she was but I don't know if it's true that she was wearing his uniform or a generic police uniform) Seems to me, a guy isn't going to let just anyone wear his uniform. That's kind of one of those weird things...reminds me of wearing your boyfriend's jersey in high school or something. Also in the police report, he says that he drove her home but the bouncer that he worked with who was also an off duty police officer said that she found a ride home later with someone else, but didn't specifically name his co worker. I kind of wondered if he actually didn't know how she got home or if he just didn't want to name his friend in case his friend didn't admit to driving her home himself.

I don't know if I think that they are involved in his death or not...but I do think that a lot of things sounded shady from that night and they are at least responsible for putting him a very vulnerable situation.

 

[Blink34]

Well in the one case, the rumor that the one young man was talking to 3 hispanic girls; which no one remembered any there at the party. So in what i meant by "white surrounding" was that if most everyone there was white, they would notice someone who wasn't unless it was someone within their own personal group of friends. If someone is going to be serial killing, they're going to want to try and blend in with the environment where there victims are so they do not stand out so that someone can be like, "oh i remember this person who stood out who was there that night" therefore incriminating themself.
Blink, they don't have to blend in, although it would smarter if they did so as not to attract attention to themself. If a white serial killer looks for victims in a Mexican bar, don't you think someone would notice them out of place that night? (example)
I don't mean anything racial by this; it's just a more practical idea for the killers.

Meow- thanks for the clarification. The case you referenced which is 1 out of about 60+ is that of Tommy Booth, who was at a bar, not a party, and that account was by his actual friends and corroberated by bar staff.
I mention that because it was by all accounts unusual. Even a family member, who took the time to vist the bar shortly after Tommy went missing found that was odd, based on the mix of folks that evening.
The point I am making is if you entertain the theory of a "lure", they would not resemble the vic at all (woman). And if we know in the bulk of the cases that there are no discernable POI from the bar crowd, I think to categorize the perp as same, based on the serial killer profile, which to date holds no resemblence here, does not apply, imo.

 

[SheerLuck]

If someone is going to be serial killing, they're going to want to try and blend in with the environment where there victims are so they do not stand out so that someone can be like, "oh i remember this person who stood out who was there that night" therefore incriminating themself.
.

I'm not speaking from experience, but for most crimes; the best method is to commit your crime without being seen by anyone and then leave. Just get in and get out. So I'm thinking the killer probably avoids blending in at a bar or party; unless he's a roadie or a band member who's forced to first blend in. Maybe he simply enters any college town off any major highway on any given weekend around 1:30 to 2:00 a.m. Then maybe he heads to the first college strip of bars he sees and targets the first young white guy he sees leaving a bar; does his crime and heads back to the highway.

 

[SheerLuck]

There are more like 12 additions since April 26, 2008. And, while I have been updating the crime map as info becomes available, updating the stats thread is a manual and somewhat tedious proc (even with the excel macros). I have updated the thread and will continue to do so as time permits.That is, until I've finished my proggie that models the vicap report, which is designed to auto-gen the stats & graphs, as well as providing a means to update/add data as it becomes available. The proggie also has a hook for updating my crime maps (to include automated geocoding) as well.

Thanx; and the crime map I hadn't seen before. I hope it doesn't start taking on the image of a face.

 

[ArizonaGiGi]

I found an interesting post on the website AboveTopSecret.com
I am new here and am not very familiar with this website but I bet lots of you WS'ers are?). I am posting a link and am abiding by their copyright infringement rules in order to do so.

Under the topic SERIAL KILLING TEAM DROWNING VICTIMS ACROSS THE COUNTRY, on page 15 there is a post by ANONYMOUS ATS that has a link to two videos that are on youtube posted by a youtuber named "TraneSlave" (who states that he is a musician). The two vids are taken from a small private plane flight over lake La Crosse, Lake Wissota and Eau Claire WI.

Also creepy - I remember a new WS member named Ethann who made reference to a possible connection between the Trane factories and the the drownings. Numerous times. Incidently Ethann is now posting on the ATS website and has bumped this Traneslave video post. Ethann also has a video link on (page 15 of the ATS site) with pictures etc of his own investigation.

I find the whole Trane, TraneSlave and possible connection made by Ethann to be interesting but very creepy.

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread351428/pg15

 

[Blink34]

I found an interesting post on the website AboveTopSecret.com
I am new here and am not very familiar with this website but I bet lots of you WS'ers are?). I am posting a link and am abiding by their copyright infringement rules in order to do so.


Thanks for posting this AGiGi-
I reviewed Ethan's posts and video, I agree creepy, and if you look at the desk top pictured in the youtube video, you can see it has the firepower to condense the research to slideshow, yet reverts to a handheld video fixed on the CPU screen while moving the cursor- bizarre. I think we have been over that the smiley or other graffiti is so commonplace we all think of it as secondary evidence to other facts. Didn't see anything new.

I personally think the HVAC theory of Ethann's, (notice I purposelly don't use the word- he's about 10 seconds away from getting sued, I know this as a fact, perhaps he could pick up his registered mail). Even at it's most plausible, that theory does not address the profile or motive issues- not even in the zip code.
Although, I did like that site, thanks AGIGI!

 

[MeoW333]

On the note of "Trane" theories; there is a video game called "marc ecko's getting up" in which the main character, named Trane is a graffit artist. Just thought i would add that. The game is made for playstation2, i'm not sure what else.

 

[MeoW333]

I'm not speaking from experience, but for most crimes; the best method is to commit your crime without being seen by anyone and then leave. Just get in and get out. So I'm thinking the killer probably avoids blending in at a bar or party; unless he's a roadie or a band member who's forced to first blend in. Maybe he simply enters any college town off any major highway on any given weekend around 1:30 to 2:00 a.m. Then maybe he heads to the first college strip of bars he sees and targets the first young white guy he sees leaving a bar; does his crime and heads back to the highway.

One would think that a killer targeting his/her victim would case out the place first before choosing a victim. Make sure there is no video cameras and see how the crowd is, etc. Entering a crowded bar, obviously one would be seen. Therefore the killer has to be able to blend in, since someone is drugging these young men's drinks. Same thing would apply if a female is behind the killings. Someone who stands out, regardless of what race they are, risks getting caught if anyone noticed them near any of the victims and remembered on any of the nights one of these young men went missing. That was the point i have been trying to make.

 

[MeoW333]

Does anyone know if freight trains may connect and have routes to any of these areas? Someone possibly hopping trains to get from one to the other to kill? It won't be the first time that happened.

 

[Blink34]

One would think that a killer targeting his/her victim would case out the place first before choosing a victim. Make sure there is no video cameras and see how the crowd is, etc. Entering a crowded bar, obviously one would be seen. Therefore the killer has to be able to blend in, since someone is drugging these young men's drinks. Same thing would apply if a female is behind the killings. Someone who stands out, regardless of what race they are, risks getting caught if anyone noticed them near any of the victims and remembered on any of the nights one of these young men went missing. That was the point i have been trying to make.

I would agree if I thought the actual killer or killers were inside the establishment with the victim, which I do not. The evidence available which is albeit scant, supports this. I do agree however that those with the intent to drug or lure said victim, would have a need to not stand out or appear "suspect" in their appearance or behavior. Think about it, it would take more than 1 person to drug, lure, transport, and ultimately drown or even to place in the river without any apparent struggle in some cases. I do not believe the killer would put his face on video, or chance being recognized by a patron, ever. I will go as far as to say that when hopefully one or all of these cases has an arrest, the killer or killers will have NO criminal record, not so much as a parking ticket.

ETA: and not to mention that they would need an additional person or persons to immediately place evidence in a different location-

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Yes, I have heard of that site. If they would go deeper into checking "traneslave" they would have found that his myspace says he is in the police academy and looks to be harmless. I viewed the videos and I don't find them odd at all. He does work for Trane as a safety person and lives in Panama City, FL.

Ethann's "theory" came from other sites. His attempt to push it here failed miserably.