Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

[fran]

thanks fran. so the bartender is responsible for spiking that kids drink. and he has a small group at the bar that are in on it too. that would pretty much make it random selection of victim. ie; how in the world did the bartender know that "joe blow" was going to be in the bar drinking THAT night? perhaps some of the crimes are random and some are targeted. who knows.
interesting story posted by the mom, thanks again

The detectives said they believe the students are targeted. I believe that's possible in part, but also random. I think some of the cases are as simple as opportunity.

There are a couple of the cases, including Tommy Booth, where they were drinking in a bar with their friend one minute and the next minute they're missing and found later drowned.

This points to 'inside the bar,' possibly the bartender involvement.

There's a couple of other cases where the victim was seen talking to a 'stranger(s).'

This COULD point to bartender involvement or someone 'inside the bar' slipping something in their drink.

One thing I've found is there are two bartenders 'missing.' Their cars have been located but the bartenders are missing without a trace. I haven't located a drowned student from their particular bars, however, interestingly enough, one of the bartenders was at a bootleggers. It is in another state from the one in which a student is missing, but what IF he knew of this alleged bigger plot of murders?

For the first few years, these happenings seemed to be concentrated in a specific area. But, as time progressed, it spread. It's like when the 'heat' started rising in the Wisconsin area in particular, they then 'moved' their location. Once the 'serial killer' idea began to be discussed, they realized in order to NOT get caught, or fuel this was the work of the 'same person(s),' they began in new locations.

IF a number of this year's drownings and disappearances are related, it appears these cases have hit a frenzied pitch. There are more than 20 cases. Some could be isolated incidents, but good grief!

The original cases appeared to be along the I94. But, now that this fact of the I94 somehow being one of the connecting facts, the cases have started popping up in a number of locations all over the Great Lakes area, New England states, all the way down to North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia. I have three cases alone in North Carolina for this school year. (two missing (one bartender) one drowned)

FWIW, in the southern states, more of the guys are missing and not found drowned. Many of them, their car was located but the young man is 'missing without a trace.'

Either these serial killers are very good at hiding their tracks, or there is a definit danger of a young man being alone late at night into the early morning hours.

JMHO
fran

 

[RR0004]

I feel for the family or families being contacted by anyone here with lame theories. We don't do that for the simple reason they are in such an emotional place and to add to their pain is unneccessary plus highly irresponsible.

It is even worse that they could consider this something that WS members are responsible for doing! Just in a time where WS is being recognized in so many areas for the good work we do, having someone come in and prey upon the families is wrong on so many levels. It isn't the way we do things nor should we sit by and allow other members to prey on the families of victims.

I have gotten to the point where I don't care to put out ideas because of the situation here. I would hate to think it has come to this, but as you can clearly see...whatever we do come up with...is being used for less than credible, personal purposes. It needs to stop.

We can't stop trolls, but we can quit feeding them.

SS- Now I'm afraid I really DID miss something. Families are being contacted? That's reprehensible IMO. I have found information we've discussed cited elsewhere (by reporters), but for the good as it's purpose has been to highlight these cases. There's no room here for personal agendas. These boards should be solely for intelligent discussion and elaboration of the facts. I, for one, would like to know how to recognize the "negative" impact (if you know what I mean). Can you be more specific?

 

[SuziQ]

SS- Now I'm afraid I really DID miss something. Families are being contacted? That's reprehensible IMO. I have found information we've discussed cited elsewhere (by reporters), but for the good as it's purpose has been to highlight these cases. There's no room here for personal agendas. These boards should be solely for intelligent discussion and elaboration of the facts. I, for one, would like to know how to recognize the "negative" impact (if you know what I mean). Can you be more specific?

SL has stated in several posts that they are contacting grieving family members of the vics in this thread. SL's agendas could be several, reward money maybe. To say the least, SL will be yanking the chain of grieving and desperate family members for the sole purpose of getting SL's own rocks off. THAT'S completely disgusting, predatory, and a potential PR nightmare for WS. I will not take part in it. I've reported Sheerluck to the mods and will no longer feed the troll.

ETA: I know you addressed SS. But I wanted to jump in.

 

[SuziQ]

~snip~ abcnews.go.com:

Deputies initially said Grishuk's drinks had been spiked with the date-rape drug GHB. On Friday, Amormino said the drug was Nimetazepam, which is similar to GHB but usually found in Asia and Europe.


You know, toxicology isn't "magic." It doesn't automatically test the tissue/water/whatever and spit out EVERY CHEMICAL in there. They test for certain things.

I bet you a bright shiny Euro they are not testing for this horrible Asia/Europe version of the date-rape drug!!!! OMG will the bad guys ever stop inventing things to hurt others???

Well it's got me thinking...

Ta 'till later, stay safe everyone...

Very interesting! It would seem that a halfway decent hobby chemist could create their own concoction with no problem. And how would an ME hazard to guess what to test for?

 

[Blink34]

SL has stated in several posts that they are contacting grieving family members of the vics in this thread. SL's agendas could be several, reward money maybe. To say the least, SL will be yanking the chain of grieving and desperate family members for the sole purpose of getting SL's own rocks off. THAT'S completely disgusting, predatory, and a potential PR nightmare for WS. I will not take part in it. I've reported Sheerluck to the mods and will no longer feed the troll.

ETA: I know you addressed SS. But I wanted to jump in.

Thank you SS, SQ, RR- I missed any earlier post that SL was contacting family members on this thread- that may be the sickest form of cruelty I can think of- and I pray that it is dealt with appropriately. Unbelievable.
My husband constantly tells me I am niave, now I gotta cop to it, again.

 

[Blink34]

The detectives said they believe the students are targeted. I believe that's possible in part, but also random. I think some of the cases are as simple as opportunity.

There are a couple of the cases, including Tommy Booth, where they were drinking in a bar with their friend one minute and the next minute they're missing and found later drowned.

This points to 'inside the bar,' possibly the bartender involvement.

There's a couple of other cases where the victim was seen talking to a 'stranger(s).'

This COULD point to bartender involvement or someone 'inside the bar' slipping something in their drink.

One thing I've found is there are two bartenders 'missing.' Their cars have been located but the bartenders are missing without a trace. I haven't located a drowned student from their particular bars, however, interestingly enough, one of the bartenders was at a bootleggers. It is in another state from the one in which a student is missing, but what IF he knew of this alleged bigger plot of murders?

For the first few years, these happenings seemed to be concentrated in a specific area. But, as time progressed, it spread. It's like when the 'heat' started rising in the Wisconsin area in particular, they then 'moved' their location. Once the 'serial killer' idea began to be discussed, they realized in order to NOT get caught, or fuel this was the work of the 'same person(s),' they began in new locations.

IF a number of this year's drownings and disappearances are related, it appears these cases have hit a frenzied pitch. There are more than 20 cases. Some could be isolated incidents, but good grief!

The original cases appeared to be along the I94. But, now that this fact of the I94 somehow being one of the connecting facts, the cases have started popping up in a number of locations all over the Great Lakes area, New England states, all the way down to North Carolina, Virginia, Georgia. I have three cases alone in North Carolina for this school year. (two missing (one bartender) one drowned)

FWIW, in the southern states, more of the guys are missing and not found drowned. Many of them, their car was located but the young man is 'missing without a trace.'

Either these serial killers are very good at hiding their tracks, or there is a definit danger of a young man being alone late at night into the early morning hours.

JMHO
fran

Unfortunately Fran, I fear the latter-
Have you posted the names/potential vics of the bartenders/club owner you refereneced and their stats, here or on potential vics thread?

 

[fran]

Very interesting! It would seem that a halfway decent hobby chemist could create their own concoction with no problem. And how would an ME hazard to guess what to test for?

SuzieQ, a few weeks ago I linked a site that talked about GHB and how the ingredients vary, making it almost impossible for LE to trace because they have to know what to look for before they can test for it. It's kinda' like meth. These guys are constantly changing the recipe to include drugs that aren't on the 'watch list,' and they end up getting off of their drug charges.

From what I could gather, there's a number of ingredients that can be added and subtracted to have the same effect. Oh, and GHB is a HUGE problem, even people becoming addicted to it.

FWIW, ehhh, I know someone who's a forensic chemist.

JMHO
fran

 

[fran]

Unfortunately Fran, I fear the latter-
Have you posted the names/potential vics of the bartenders/club owner you refereneced and their stats, here or on potential vics thread?

Blink:

You know, I've added a few here and there, but as far as these go, I don't know if I've added them. I'm a little hesitant to add all the names I've come up with.

Seriously, you all would think I'm nuts!

fran

 

[fran]

SL has stated in several posts that they are contacting grieving family members of the vics in this thread. SL's agendas could be several, reward money maybe. To say the least, SL will be yanking the chain of grieving and desperate family members for the sole purpose of getting SL's own rocks off. THAT'S completely disgusting, predatory, and a potential PR nightmare for WS. I will not take part in it. I've reported Sheerluck to the mods and will no longer feed the troll.

ETA: I know you addressed SS. But I wanted to jump in.

I don't mind discussing this case here, but I certainly would NOT want any information I've come up with to leak to any of the families. What IF I'm wrong!? This could bring untold hurt and dispair to the families and unnecessarily reopen old wounds.

Should I just shut up now? Honestly?

fran

 

[SuziQ]

Fran, IIRC, the site you linked talked about at least 40 something types of date drugs out there. Sounds like a lot more than that huh? And weren't ravers a few years back making their own ecstacy in buckets with acetone and other easily bought chemicals?

I remember you touching on the bartenders, I'd personally like to see what you have dug up. I'd never think you were nuts!

 

[SuziQ]

I don't mind discussing this case here, but I certainly would NOT want any information I've come up with to leak to any of the families. What IF I'm wrong!? This could bring untold hurt and dispair to the families and unnecessarily reopen old wounds.

Should I just shut up now? Honestly?

fran

I'm in the same place as you are.

 

[RR0004]

Thanks, SQ. OMG! How awful! You mentioned "they"? Thanks for the heads up. In the future, I will be mindful to ignore these posts and not lend credence to the remarks by addressing them. Above all else, there MUST be respect for what these people have endured and continue to go through.

I have to say, I do believe that women may have been targeted in the beginning. I also see that as the years have passed the killer's methodolgy would likely have been "honed". So it doesn't surprise me that the drugs would have changed as well. I'm including the following post because my son was a student when this PSU student went missing Halloween night. Her face still haunts me.

http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archive/2002/01/01-16-02tdc/01-16-02dnews-02.asp

 

[RR0004]

Fran...I would like to see what you've found as well.

I do believe (and can relate to somewhat personally) that when a family member is faced with a mysterious disappearance of a loved one...or a questionable COD...they have, no doubt, pondered what you have proposed and what we ALL have discussed. These familes want answers. They have not really been given ANY by those in charge that feel right to them. As Blink says, trust your instincts. For me, as long as there is doubt for just one of these families, then our help/insight/discussion offers them something...and if for no other reason then to let them know their thoughts and feelings are being validated, I say "continue"!

 

[fran]

Fran, IIRC, the site you linked talked about at least 40 something types of date drugs out there. Sounds like a lot more than that huh? And weren't ravers a few years back making their own ecstacy in buckets with acetone and other easily bought chemicals?

I remember you touching on the bartenders, I'd personally like to see what you have dug up. I'd never think you were nuts!

OhMyGosh! Raves!

I either read or saw something where at some raves, they actually had a guy at a table at the entrance that would, "free of charge," test the party-goer's 'drug' to be sure it didn't contain something poisonous. I guess they'd had so many of the people dying from an ingredient.

FWIW, that's why they only serve water, for $10 a bottle, at raves. Whatever that stuff is they use at them causes their body to actually cook, from the inside out.

Scary stuff.

JMHO
fran

 

[Blink34]

Fran...I would like to see what you've found as well.

I do believe (and can relate to somewhat personally) that when a family member is faced with a mysterious disappearance of a loved one...or a questionable COD...they have, no doubt, pondered what you have proposed and what we ALL have discussed. These familes want answers. They have not really been given ANY by those in charge that feel right to them. As Blink says, trust your instincts. For me, as long as there is doubt for just one of these families, then our help/insight/discussion offers them something...and if for no other reason then to let them know their thoughts and feelings are being validated, I say "continue"!

RR- thank you, you are right on, imo.
There is nothing worse than the unknown for these families, I can tell yu form personal experience. Secondly, the difference between the possibility of someone else taking your loved one's life, vs. an accident, is only second worse to the "unknown". I will not rest until I feel that these family's can get the answers they need.

 

[RR0004]

RR- thank you, you are right on, imo.
There is nothing worse than the unknown for these families, I can tell yu form personal experience. Secondly, the difference between the possibility of someone else taking your loved one's life, vs. an accident, is only second worse to the "unknown". I will not rest until I feel that these family's can get the answers they need.

It's hard enough dealing with the "would of, could of, should of (s)..."
The least we here at WS can do is try our best to find closure.

oxoxoxo

 

[ArizonaGiGi]

I'm new on here but I have found the WS posters to be thoughtful, caring, intelligent, helpful, and knowledable. Yes, there has been the proverbial bad apple but as suggested previously, it's best to ignore completely the trolling bad apples. Eventually they will rot and go away.

And I vow to try not to be redundant.

 

[RR0004]

Great analogy, Arizona. Thanks for putting a smile on my face.

 

[Ethann]

zodiac hated writer SiNELLi
Smiley Face victim SNELL called for help on cell phone when being HUNTED by
someone he didn`t know-found drowned 3 days later
Zodiac killed STINE
Smiley face victim STIENkeoway-on casino video with killer resembling Gary
Zodiac killed JOHNS
Smiley Victim JOHN Schnicke=JOHNS chicken
Zodiac`s suspected name-arthur LEIGH allen
SERIAL KILLER -ROBERT LEE yates
Drowning victim-tim LEE
Drowning victim- Robert LEIGH-Robert E. Lee fought Lincoln in Civil War
Drowning victim Thomas BOOTH-Booth shot Lincoln
Drowning victim stienkeoway from HINCKLEY mn-HINCKLEY shot REAGEN

SERIAL KILLER michael bruce ROSS
Smiley victim nick ROSSini
Smiley victim jesse ROSS
wade steffey strangled after party at david ROSS road

SERIAL KILLER Robert HANSEN
drowning victim Chris HANSEN

SERIAL KILLER james MILLER
Smiley Face victim jesse MILLER
Smiley Face victim charles BLATZ
michigan child victim alishia dacONE MILLER
michigan child victim Brittney BEERS

 

[Ethann]

Names included JOHN Schnicke-move the n= JOHNS CHICKEN
Drowning victim-GEESEy
Drowning victim-hayDUK-duck
Drowning victim David Dantzler WOLFE
Drowning victim greg MARTIN-martin type of bird
Drowning victim olBERDIng-BERDI
Drowning victim- FALCON- Falcon bird- sports team
Drowning victim-MARLON BLUE-blue marlin fish-marlin sports team
Drowning victim-craig BURROws-a donkey
Drowning victim Pitchfork ra ra riot drummer john PIKE -pike type of fish