Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

[Blink34]

I'm in the same place as you are.

I hear what you are saying and I agree, but if we have the same goal we should think about how to handle it- any thoughts?

 

[Pixie72]

Hi All~ I have been reading over the posts under this thread for the past few days and wanted to be a part of this discussion.

I have become very intrigued over the past several weeks with all the media hype that has been caused by my hometown news station KSTP (I live in the Twin Cities) doing the piece on the "Smiley Face Killers".

I, like probably many of you, have paid attention over the past 11 years as young college age men continued to go missing and turn up in the water after a night of drinking. Every time I could not help thinking these are no accidents.

Since watching the story Kristi Piehl did I have become more curious about what information is out there about all of these strangely linked drownings. I have felt so compelled lately that it is almost an obsession. I think I need an outlet and I hope this forum will help.

I hope you all will be open to my thoughts and ideas on what might be happening to these young men.

I have to say I am not convinced it is a "gang" as Gannon and Duarte believe. The reason I feel this is unlikely is the more people who are involved in a crime the less likely it is for someone to keep their mouth shut. I think there would already be someone who felt guilty or bragged, etc. There is also more of a chance of someone slipping up, leaving evidence if more people are involved.

My theory (and keep in mind is only a theory) is that it is one person. One very sick individual who thought this out for a long time before acting on his desires. Different types of killers have different motives for killing. This person does not want to be caught, some want the notoriety and therefore I think leave clues intentionally (ie BTK). I believe this person travels for a living between the Midwest and East Coast, thus the string of drownings between here and there. I do not think that any missing cases in states outside of this region are related.

If you take a look on YouTube there are two videos that I think are worth reviewing from prior to the Gannon/Duarte theory. Dr. Lee Gilbertson is a St. Cloud Minnesota University Professor of Criminology. He and some college students did some outstanding research using all the data from similar drowning cases in the region. There is very strong statistical evidence that shows a pattern. If you search using Dr. Lee Gilbertson you should be able to find it. There is also a story done by another one of our local news stations, Fox9, the clip is entitled “All Roads Lead to LaCrosse Wisconsin”. It also has interviews with Dr. Lee Gilbertson and again points out the striking similarities they found during their analysis. What I find most compelling still is the I-94 corridor, how can that be coincidence?

To me this makes the most sense logically. It almost helps make sense of something that doesn’t make sense.


Dr. Gilberton’s students also came up with a profile. Oddly they believed it is someone who had a traumatic experience during college. I believe the killer is very opportunistic. I do not believe he singles the victim out until the opportunity presents itself. How is the killer going to know if someone he is targeting is going to get separated from his friends later in the evening or leave by himself? The things I am still most curious about are where were the victims going when they left? I am sure they all had places in mind, going home, going to a friends, etc. Where was that place in relation to the bar or party they just left? Was there some way a person could have very un-noticeably persuaded them to get in a vehicle, maybe with an offer to drive them some where? Maybe offer them more alcohol, with something in it like has been suggested by many? Then take them somewhere unseen by others and put them in the water? No one is paying attention to these things because everyone else is drunk at the time or have no clue that they should be watching out for something out of the ordinary.

I apologize for the length of this post but I needed to say this to someone instead of keeping it in my head.

If we all keep brainstorming and sharing maybe just maybe we will stumble on the missing key to all of this.

 

[ArizonaGiGi]

Welcome Pixie. I have wondered how in the world a person or persons could entice the victim into going with them and do it without drawing any attention. If it is only one perpetrator, they may be using the ploy that Bundy used. Remember how he had a fake cast and would "need" help from an innocent bystandered. When they would help him, he would drop the cast and grab them. Perhaps the perp is using a fake handicap of some type, or even acting like a very very drunk college student needing help, and get the victim to help them and then incapacitating the victim somehow. (stun gun, sheer force etc).

 

[Roxye]

Welcome Pixie. I have wondered how in the world a person or persons could entice the victim into going with them and do it without drawing any attention. If it is only one perpetrator, they may be using the ploy that Bundy used. Remember how he had a fake cast and would "need" help from an innocent bystandered. When they would help him, he would drop the cast and grab them. Perhaps the perp is using a fake handicap of some type, or even acting like a very very drunk college student needing help, and get the victim to help them and then incapacitating the victim somehow. (stun gun, sheer force etc).

I haven't participated much in the discussion so far, you all pretty well have all bases covered and anything I have to add would be redundant.

However here is a question I have had a theory on for quite sometime. Be it a cult, a single killer, or a gang, I believe they are using a female as a "bait". The female acts as if she is in trouble or comes on to the men, enticing them to come near the water with her.

At the water her accomplices are waiting or the woman herself is the killer. A few men were found naked with their clothes neatly folded. Maybe the female suggested skinny dipping? Maybe the female even had something to drink that was drugged, she offered it to the men to make it easier for her to drowned them without struggle marks.

Either way, I am convinced a woman is involved in getting the men to secluded spots where bystanders wouldn't be able to see or hear anything.

 

[ArizonaGiGi]

"A few men were found naked with their clothes neatly folded. "

Roxye, I never heard about that. How many and who were they?

 

[RR0004]

Welcome Pixie and Roxye!

Pixie, I've wondered if many of the things said by the detectives were for the purpose of flushing out the true perpetrator. I wouldn't think a SK would want to share credit with anyone.

Roxye- I, too, must have missed the "folded clothes". Can you direct me to where I might find this information?

Again, welcome to the board!

 

[Blink34]

Hi All~ I have been reading over the posts under this thread for the past few days and wanted to be a part of this discussion.

I have become very intrigued over the past several weeks with all the media hype that has been caused by my hometown news station KSTP (I live in the Twin Cities) doing the piece on the "Smiley Face Killers".

I, like probably many of you, have paid attention over the past 11 years as young college age men continued to go missing and turn up in the water after a night of drinking. Every time I could not help thinking these are no accidents.

Since watching the story Kristi Piehl did I have become more curious about what information is out there about all of these strangely linked drownings. I have felt so compelled lately that it is almost an obsession. I think I need an outlet and I hope this forum will help.

I hope you all will be open to my thoughts and ideas on what might be happening to these young men.

I have to say I am not convinced it is a "gang" as Gannon and Duarte believe. The reason I feel this is unlikely is the more people who are involved in a crime the less likely it is for someone to keep their mouth shut. I think there would already be someone who felt guilty or bragged, etc. There is also more of a chance of someone slipping up, leaving evidence if more people are involved.

My theory (and keep in mind is only a theory) is that it is one person. One very sick individual who thought this out for a long time before acting on his desires. Different types of killers have different motives for killing. This person does not want to be caught, some want the notoriety and therefore I think leave clues intentionally (ie BTK). I believe this person travels for a living between the Midwest and East Coast, thus the string of drownings between here and there. I do not think that any missing cases in states outside of this region are related.

If you take a look on YouTube there are two videos that I think are worth reviewing from prior to the Gannon/Duarte theory. Dr. Lee Gilbertson is a St. Cloud Minnesota University Professor of Criminology. He and some college students did some outstanding research using all the data from similar drowning cases in the region. There is very strong statistical evidence that shows a pattern. If you search using Dr. Lee Gilbertson you should be able to find it. There is also a story done by another one of our local news stations, Fox9, the clip is entitled “All Roads Lead to LaCrosse Wisconsin”. It also has interviews with Dr. Lee Gilbertson and again points out the striking similarities they found during their analysis. What I find most compelling still is the I-94 corridor, how can that be coincidence?

To me this makes the most sense logically. It almost helps make sense of something that doesn’t make sense.


Dr. Gilberton’s students also came up with a profile. Oddly they believed it is someone who had a traumatic experience during college. I believe the killer is very opportunistic. I do not believe he singles the victim out until the opportunity presents itself. How is the killer going to know if someone he is targeting is going to get separated from his friends later in the evening or leave by himself? The things I am still most curious about are where were the victims going when they left? I am sure they all had places in mind, going home, going to a friends, etc. Where was that place in relation to the bar or party they just left? Was there some way a person could have very un-noticeably persuaded them to get in a vehicle, maybe with an offer to drive them some where? Maybe offer them more alcohol, with something in it like has been suggested by many? Then take them somewhere unseen by others and put them in the water? No one is paying attention to these things because everyone else is drunk at the time or have no clue that they should be watching out for something out of the ordinary.

I apologize for the length of this post but I needed to say this to someone instead of keeping it in my head.

If we all keep brainstorming and sharing maybe just maybe we will stumble on the missing key to all of this.

Welcome Pixie! We are always very happy to have a local perspective.
I might suggest if you have a chance to review the first few threads as well as the possible vics threads. While I think we all pretty much agree these cases started in your "backyard", due to the timing and logistics, it would seem pretty impossible to be the work of one person.
I would be interested in what you feel the "locals" think in general- Do most support LE theory that there is no connection and these are accidental drownings?

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

Hi Pixie 72,
My theory is similar to yours about the I-94 corridor. I think those are connected, too, and do agree it's a single person or at most, two. I like your thought that it's someone with a grudge against college students. Could it be someone who flunked out of the UW system, and has been stuck in a deadend job, perhaps a route driver of some type?
The timing is off for he or she to be responsible for the distant drownings.

 

[Pixie72]

Thank you for the replies to my posts I am happy to have found others as interested in this as I am.

Blink~I think it is pretty much understood that most local law enforcement in this area do not believe this is the work of a SK or SK gang. I have reviewed much of the documentation on the Chris Jenkins case and seen the statements released by them and the FBI. Even though the Jenkins family hired an expert in water flow and they reconstructed how they felt Chris's body ended up where it did (proving that he didn't just fall in) their was still disagreement from law enforcement with their own studies that were conducted.

The largest problem we have with these cases is that even if there is a suspect, someone like LILY, how is law enforcement going to link this peson to the crime if all the evidence is washed away. There would still be nothing connecting that person to the drown victim. I think this is why authorities are reluctant to publicly state that it is the work of a SK, they know they do not have solid evidence (something that could be proven in a court of law) to convict someone.

What angers me the most is what they have done and said about the cases in LaCrosse, blaming it on the community having a drinking problem. Young people drinking is not an anomoly, yet where else in the country or the world have this many drownings occurred to such a specific type of person.

I think it is entirely possible that Gannon and Duarte may be trying to smoke this person out by coming out and saying it is a gang maybe to anger the person into leaving clues that they are a sole perp.

I wish that I could read some more of the police reports on the other victims, are those public record or do you have to have a reason to request a copy of it?

 

[Blink34]

Pixie-
If the cases are closed, and have not been re-opened, technically it is public information.. Anyone can request review. That being said, the rules of that vary by jurisdiction and how they would provide that info may be a long way from "making it easy." Best first step would be to call the appropriate HQ and request an appointment to review the file. Keep in mind if you are looking to do that anonymously, that would not be possible.

 

[SuziQ]

Welcome Pixie and Roxye!

 

[SuziQ]

Here is a post Ethann made in the general links that I think is deserving of a close look. Luke Homan's friend Austin was either truly confused and had a memory lapse and was a vic himself that got away, or he and Luke got into a fight leading to Luke's death. Below is Ethans post from the General Links Thread.

Yesterday, 08:30 AM
Ethann

Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32


AUSTIN SCOTT’S INITIAL POLICE CONTACT

http://www.rivervalleyblogs.com/complaints/scott.htm

 

[SuziQ]

"A few men were found naked with their clothes neatly folded. "

Roxye, I never heard about that. How many and who were they?

The website has changed and I can't get some of the links to open at

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/search/label/park

IIRC, if you do a search on that site under "folded clothing", or something like that, a couple of cases will come up. One did leave his clothing neatly folded by an (indian?) statue. A couple of other vics clothing was found laying near the rivers edge, but not neatly folded. As if they shed their clothing along the way. Which always made me think of the affect of ecstasy. Where they become super heated and drown themselves by drinking too much water.

 

[Blink34]

Here is a post Ethann made in the general links that I think is deserving of a close look. Luke Homan's friend Austin was either truly confused and had a memory lapse and was a vic himself that got away, or he and Luke got into a fight leading to Luke's death. Below is Ethans post from the General Links Thread.

Yesterday, 08:30 AM
Ethann

Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 32

Suz- I commented on that early on- gotta find thread now !! IIRC, not just that, but Austin was wet, gave an alias, and there was no reason to- he was of age!

 

[ArizonaGiGi]

The website has changed and I can't get some of the links to open at

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/search/label/park

IIRC, if you do a search on that site under "folded clothing", or something like that, a couple of cases will come up. One did leave his clothing neatly folded by an (indian?) statue. A couple of other vics clothing was found laying near the rivers edge, but not neatly folded. As if they shed their clothing along the way. Which always made me think of the affect of ecstasy. Where they become super heated and drown themselves by drinking too much water.

the only thing I can find on the site is about Nathan Kapfer;

"his hat, wallet and police citations were all found neatly arranged near the Indian statue in Riverside Park. Kapfer was nowhere to be found."


ps what does IIRC mean?

 

[fran]

the only thing I can find on the site is about Nathan Kapfer;

"his hat, wallet and police citations were all found neatly arranged near the Indian statue in Riverside Park. Kapfer was nowhere to be found."


ps what does IIRC mean?

IIRC = If I recall correctly


fran

 

[RR0004]

You know the "totally confused' makes sense to me today after hearing about the US traveler who died in Rome. What won't people think of next?! G-d awful!!

PS- Bless our soldiers...young and old...especially those gone...but not forgotten.

 

[Indigator]

This sounds weird and I am not sure if it was already discussed here, but I have been reading fairly regularly and have not seen anything. Anyway, in the mid-90's, MTV ran a show called "BuzzKill" which was a Candid Camera type set-up but somewhat dangerous pranks were played on college students. The logo was a crossed out smiley face and the first episode featured a segment where two drunk students are offered a van ride that turns into a two hour journey where things get strange.
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/3519/buzz.htm

http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~vwaluch/index.html

 

[Indigator]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GG_Allin

The musician who did the theme song from BuzzKill

 

[looneymama]

This sounds weird and I am not sure if it was already discussed here, but I have been reading fairly regularly and have not seen anything. Anyway, in the mid-90's, MTV ran a show called "BuzzKill" which was a Candid Camera type set-up but somewhat dangerous pranks were played on college students. The logo was a crossed out smiley face and the first episode featured a segment where two drunk students are offered a van ride that turns into a two hour journey where things get strange.
http://www.geocities.com/CollegePark/3519/buzz.htm

http://www-hsc.usc.edu/~vwaluch/index.html

I believe it has been mentioned a couple times. Kind of a creepy thought though.