Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

[Blink34]

i understand your point, of course; however college aged men wouldn't be in school May to September, right? September to May or June is the school year, or am I stating the obvious?

No, because just because they are "college aged" does not mean they were currently enrolled, some were post grads, some were just grads, and some did not graduate but attended university. Some went missing out of their hometown. I think DD was referring to the actual climates and the "just going for a dip" theory as well.

 

[SuziQ]

I am aware that the qualifications for coronor vary from state to state...however, I just did a search and came up with qualifications for Georgia
http://www.co.henry.ga.us/Registrars/pdf/QUALIFICATIONS.pdf

Without some further research, I'm not sure, but I believe that a coronor can rule on the cause of death. I believe there are probably very different qualifications for a medical examiner, but would appreciate anybody who is better informed weighing in on this question.

I am reposting a post I made in another thread regarding the qualifications to become a coroner or death investigator. It's a series of articles and many many states in the U.S. still operated under outdated laws.

05-16-2008, 01:26 PM
SuziQ

Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 6,266


Found the articles. It was Nebraska, not Iowa.

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_pag...u_sid=10263668

Nebraska has no state oversight and few standards to ensure quality death investigations by coroners or law enforcement. As part of its two-week series, The World-Herald is detailing 15 botched cases that illustrate weaknesses in the system. The impact:
• Murder cases remain unsolved.
• Finances drive decisions - coroners skip autopsies to save money.
• Bodies have been exhumed to resolve questions from shoddy investigations.
• Some coroners guess at the cause of death.

*************
Flash presentation of Case studies.

http://content.omaha.com/media/maps/...tudiesday3.swf

 

[DeltaDawn]

No, because just because they are "college aged" does not mean they were currently enrolled, some were post grads, some were just grads, and some did not graduate but attended university. Some went missing out of their hometown. I think DD was referring to the actual climates and the "just going for a dip" theory as well.

Thanks Blink, thank is what I meant.

 

[Blink34]

This is all I know so far, posted by Luke from Huff's thread:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24882979/

~snip~Police have identified a man whose body was found floating in the Potomac River on Wednesday as Dustin Joel Farkas, 23, of Burke, Va. He was reported missing to Fairfax County police on April 27.

Another article indicating homicide/major crimes div asissting:

http://www.montgomerycountymd.gov/Apps/Police/News/NA_details.asp?NaID=4075

 

[dark_shadows]

Dearest fellows Websleuthers,:blowkiss:
I read somewhere in the posts about a gang initiation chair. I looked and cannot find it. I put the word in the search the forum box and nothing is found.

Respectfully,
dark_shadows

 

[SheerLuck]

Essentially I agree with you, DeltaDawn. But if the GHB or Ecstasy, or whatever, is in the picture, could it leave these kids in such a suggestible state that someone might say, "Haw-haw-haw, it looks like you're thinking of going for a dip."?
quote]

GHB and ecstasy are not the same. GHB is a depressent; ecstasy is a stimulant. GHB will lead to unconsciousness, so if you dump enough GHB in someone's drink towards the end of the night; as a bar is clearing up; in about 15 minutes or so; the person will appear hammered. If they drank 5 beers; they'll look like they drank 15. They'll be disorientated so as soon as they are seperated from their friends you abduct them. This is a very easy crime, but it wont work if the kids friends stick with them. So I would guess the killers fail everytime a kid has friends who get them back home.

 

[SheerLuck]

This sounds weird and I am not sure if it was already discussed here, but I have been reading fairly regularly and have not seen anything. Anyway, in the mid-90's, MTV ran a show called "BuzzKill"

The first Buzzkill episode could be what sparked the idea. The first episode is eerily similiar; except for the GHB/bar idea

Gannon is on WGY. I'll put the podcast link up later. Hopefully he gets asked about his GPS devices and his river current idea which he says tells him where the body went in. This part of their case is questionable. Bill Szostak will aslo be done. Josh Szostak clearly was the victim of foul play; be it smiley face or not

 

[SheerLuck]

Good idea...I bet SS wishes she would've thought of that! Oh wait...she did http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=64751 :crazy:

She did a few on May 13th and stopped. With the use of myspace and other other sites; if a kid was abducted where a band played; its possible to find pictures inside of bars on the night of an abduction; as she found in the bar Tommy Booth was at. Matching pictures of the same person in a different state on the night of an abduction would be a longshot and it's a lot of work searching the web for this; but it's probably the best help anyone here could do. Gannon offers nothing new to the public and the FBI remains disinterested; unless something like incriminating pictures can be found

 

[looneymama]

Daniel Reaves, 25 was last seen on Saturday, May 3 in the Madison area.

weird he was in the Madison area...there is a Madison Wisconsin too...kind of like how two guys (I have to look for their names) were last seen in Riverside Park and there is a Riverside area by the U of MN where Chris Jenkins went to school...and he was the co-captain for the lacrosse team...and a Lacrosse Wisconsin. I'm probably just reading into it all...oh yeah I think someone was in Duluth...Georgia? I have to look that up too I'm sorry....but there is a Duluth MN too

 

[looneymama]

Although I do think there is foul play involved in at least some of these cases, I could understand an intoxicated, hot, miserable guy thinking that a quick dip in a river would be a good idea. It might explain the folded clothes.

maybe, but in a Minnesota or Wisconsin winter, it would probably be easier to grab a handful of snow and rub it on your face or neck. I don't know if there has always been snow though...I don't think there was the night Chris Jenkins disappeared.

 

[looneymama]

Petunia...IMO...I don't think you can just go fo a "dip" in the Mississippi. Yikes! I've seen some of the pics and they sure as heck scared me. Now, a lake may be another story. My daughter went to school in Wisconsin that's situated pretty much on 2 lakes. She's away now, but when she gets back I'll ask her if it was common for kids to jump in.

Yeah, going for a dip is probably one of the last things that people would want to do in the Mississippi. It's nasty even up here (MN) plus it's not always that easy to get to. I'd imagine someone drunk or drugged would either give up or trip on something and pass out before they even got close to the river. Most of it would involve a downhill walk in a really wooded area. Even in the city. There are some places with easier access but still...it's nasty.

 

[looneymama]

weird he was in the Madison area...there is a Madison Wisconsin too...kind of like how two guys (I have to look for their names) were last seen in Riverside Park and there is a Riverside area by the U of MN where Chris Jenkins went to school...and he was the co-captain for the lacrosse team...and a Lacrosse Wisconsin. I'm probably just reading into it all...oh yeah I think someone was in Duluth...Georgia? I have to look that up too I'm sorry....but there is a Duluth MN too

Justin gaines was in duluth GA and ken christiansen was in duluth MN

Thank you vermontn03 for sending me that info!

 

[SuziQ]

Has anyone heard from SS since May 24th?

 

[looneymama]

I hope she is okay

 

[SheerLuck]

Has anyone heard from SS since May 24th?

Didn't see any posts from her; hopefully she's okay because she seems to have the time to really search the web in detail. Here's link for interviews from this morning of Gannon. I didn't have a chance to listen yet, but WGY's Albany's Al Roney is a great interviewer; much better than CNN and GMA, who threw Gannon a bunch of softballs; without addressing some of the questionable parts of their case. Hopefully he asked a few of the tough questions; especially the "scientific" method used by Gannon to determine where the bodies go in is questionable. Here's link; just scroll down page half way or so and look to your left for parts 1 and 2.

http://www.wgy.com/pages/onair/onair_roney.html

 

[Peculiar Petunia]

Essentially I agree with you, DeltaDawn. But if the GHB or Ecstasy, or whatever, is in the picture, could it leave these kids in such a suggestible state that someone might say, "Haw-haw-haw, it looks like you're thinking of going for a dip."?

GHB and ecstasy are not the same. GHB is a depressent; ecstasy is a stimulant. GHB will lead to unconsciousness, so if you dump enough GHB in someone's drink towards the end of the night; as a bar is clearing up; in about 15 minutes or so; the person will appear hammered. If they drank 5 beers; they'll look like they drank 15. They'll be disorientated so as soon as they are seperated from their friends you abduct them. This is a very easy crime, but it wont work if the kids friends stick with them. So I would guess the killers fail everytime a kid has friends who get them back home.

What I was wondering more, was if there could be a bad batch(es) of either of these drugs. There's a disease called malignant hyperthermia that I was thinking about, but subsequently found out that it's related more to inhalant anaesthetics.
This stuff's not rolling out of a production plant with quality control and Ph.D. chemists. More likely it's being synthesized by someone with enough chemistry knowledge to be dangerous. I just don't have the resources available to me to look up synthetic routes to see if some intermediates for either GHB or Ecstasy (or unwanted contaminants) can cause this syndrome.
Sure agree that guys not buddying up like girls do might be a factor here.

 

[SheerLuck]

Essentially I agree with you, DeltaDawn. But if the GHB or Ecstasy, or whatever, is in the picture, could it leave these kids in such a suggestible state that someone might say, "Haw-haw-haw, it looks like you're thinking of going for a dip."?


What I was wondering more, was if there could be a bad batch(es) of either of these drugs. There's a disease called malignant hyperthermia that I was thinking about, but subsequently found out that it's related more to inhalant anaesthetics.
This stuff's not rolling out of a production plant with quality control and Ph.D. chemists. More likely it's being synthesized by someone with enough chemistry knowledge to be dangerous. I just don't have the resources available to me to look up synthetic routes to see if some intermediates for either GHB or Ecstasy (or unwanted contaminants) can cause this syndrome.
Sure agree that guys not buddying up like girls do might be a factor here.

Wow; you got me there. Science is not my thing at all. The only thing I know is that when GHB is mixed with alcohol; it really adds to its effect. A lot of young women are careful and know about the dangers of rapists and GHB; but it's not something most men worry about; so maybe this makes guys easy targets. Most guys think nothing of going to the bathroom and leaving their beer on the bar or on a ledge, so it might not be that hard at the end of a night when things are winding down and less people are around; for some evil to dump some GHB into someones beer and abduct him later if they see him get separated from his friends. And so many guys do not want to go home with their guy friends, so they often split up late night

 

[ArizonaGiGi]

I hope this doesn't sound too naive here, but did any of the victims know how to swim? I know that in cold water (especially the Mississippi) it wouldn't help them survive. If a high body temperature (such as allegedly produced by Ecstasy) was involved, would someone jump into a river trying to cool down? No matter how confused a person is, once they swim well, that "I can swim" knowledge is deep in the brain.
It used to be pretty common in the lake regions of the Midwest for swimming lessons to be "socially mandatory," in that parents were expected to ensure their children could swim. Even some colleges mandated PE and swim test requirements for graduation: I don't know if these requirements persist. Although I do think there is foul play involved in at least some of these cases, I could understand an intoxicated, hot, miserable guy thinking that a quick dip in a river would be a good idea. It might explain the folded clothes.
Also, in the cases where clothes were found, were they in good repair? I can't imagine someone being able to undress a 160# man without rips or popped buttons.

Petunia, I wondered if Ecstasy was making the guys hot and they removed their clothes and took a dip to cool off so I read each of the 48 cases posted on footprintsattheriversedge.
I found a few that their parents had stated knew how to swim or were strong swimmers and one (Anthony Skifton didn't know how to swim and was terrified of the water). There weren't many with clothing removed and I found none with all of their clothing removed, but here is the break down for anyone interested;
Charles Blatz 9/28/97 missing one shoe/sock
Nathan Kapfer 2-22-98 hat, wallet & citations were neatly arranged near Indian Statue in the park
Chris Nordby 11/07/01 his bag was later discovered near Miss. river
Michael Noll 11/-06-02 he dropped his baseball hat inside of the house of an elderly woman, whose home he had walked into in the early morn hrs
Jared Dion 4-10-04 cap found hanging on a post nearby
Marlon Blue 4-17-04 shirt & cell ph found outside of bldg he was last seen
Adam Falcon 11-13-04 cell ph & hat found several blocks from bar last seen at
Josh Snell 6-12-05 two shirts found in owen park along W. bank of river

By and far the most interesting and curious thing that I read was Chris Thiem 1-12-05 who was one of two men who had flagged down a police officer then ran, jumped a fence, pounded on the door of a house, ran and the officer stopped pursuing him when Chris was along a railroad track bridge. I wonder who was the second person with Chris and why he ran from the police officer ?

 

[SheerLuck]

This podcast link is the most revealing of anything so far that Gannon has said since April. In it; my take is that he basically is strongly hinting that the killers are gang related as in street gangs; be it either black gangs or mexican/central american gangs. His references to "taggings" and bringing in people who know taggings and symbols from grafitti tells me black or mexican street gangs and his reference to the smiley faces being "1/13th" of the evidence seems like an obvious reference to street gangs also. I really didn't think street gangs were behind these killings

http://www.wgy.com/pages/onair/onair_roney.html

 

[SheerLuck]

Petunia, I wondered if Ecstasy was making the guys hot and they removed their clothes and took a dip to cool off so I read each of the 48 cases posted on footprintsattheriversedge.
I found a few that their parents had stated knew how to swim or were strong swimmers and one (Anthony Skifton didn't know how to swim and was terrified of the water). There weren't many with clothing removed and I found none with all of their clothing removed, but here is the break down for anyone interested;
Charles Blatz 9/28/97 missing one shoe/sock
Nathan Kapfer 2-22-98 hat, wallet & citations were neatly arranged near Indian Statue in the park
Chris Nordby 11/07/01 his bag was later discovered near Miss. river
Michael Noll 11/-06-02 he dropped his baseball hat inside of the house of an elderly woman, whose home he had walked into in the early morn hrs
Jared Dion 4-10-04 cap found hanging on a post nearby
Marlon Blue 4-17-04 shirt & cell ph found outside of bldg he was last seen
Adam Falcon 11-13-04 cell ph & hat found several blocks from bar last seen at
Josh Snell 6-12-05 two shirts found in owen park along W. bank of river

By and far the most interesting and curious thing that I read was Chris Thiem 1-12-05 who was one of two men who had flagged down a police officer then ran, jumped a fence, pounded on the door of a house, ran and the officer stopped pursuing him when Chris was along a railroad track bridge. I wonder who was the second person with Chris and why he ran from the police officer ?

More likely if a kid was hot and it was 2:00 a.m.; they'd go home and take a shower instead of entering a river in 10 degree weather. I guess you say ecstacy because you think these kids were just having fun and partying and using ecstacy? Most of the clothes found semed to be away from where the bodies entered the water; this could be a diversion tactic to lead LE to hunt in the wrong spot; so GHBwould leave the system before the body was found