Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

[Pixie72]

Okay the guy who got away is Cullen Fortney. I looked it up. Here is a link to a blog that has the email his mother sent about his ordeal. You have to scroll down a little to get to it:

http://www.rivervalleyblogs.com/archives/january2006.php

 

[RR0004]

Vermont-clear your messages, please...

 

[looneymama]

I just watched the video about a missing college student named Brandon Swanson, the interviewer on Fox asked the father if he thinks the "smiley face" gang could be responsible...
I am kinda pissed the lady asked the father that question (seemed very uncaring) but the father said he didnt know.

I agree, I don't think she needed to ask that. It sounded like he was having a hard time getting through that interview. I don't blame him...

 

[SheerLuck]

There are a lot of people that are into "tagging" that have no connections at all to gangs. Some just do it for the excitement of trying not to get caught, some do it to spread political messages, gangs are just a percentage of the different types of graffiti and are not the only people that refer to their specific marks or signatures as "tags"

Well; like I said; I'll keep an open mind. You're right that actual taggers by trade do more artistic artwork and they're usually not violent like street gangs; but if a cop uses the expression "grafitti tagging" in describing the scene of a killing; 99 out of 100 cops would immediately assume street gang killing. The grafitti behind the bar where Tommy Booth died; confused me; because it really matches what artistic taggers do; but artistic taggers don't commit senseless murders. It didn't have a lot of letters or numbers like street gang grafitti usually does and it didn't have satanist symbols either(at least none I'm aware of). The crown on the smiley reminded me of the Latin Kings from NYC and there was 1 symbol that was a bit like the Zodiac killer's signature, but the other symbols are a mystery to me. Here's link to video and midway through it has a full view of the grafitti wall which can be paused. Maybe someone here would know what a few of these symbols mean. To me it looks like a street gang hired an artistic tagger after Booth died. I think this is the only full wall of grafitti from 1 of these drownings

http://abclocal.go.com/wpvi/story?section=news/local&id=6118869

 

[SheerLuck]

I don't think there was anyone who had a theory that these drownings were related to some sort of gang until Gannon and Duarte came out with their theory. Dr. Gillbertson and his students very clearly indicated that they felt it was one person and even came up with a profile of that one person. I think some people on here are getting their information confused.

I believe everyone has a right to their own theories and beliefs on this case but I truly believe it is not some sort of gang, that is my opinion. As far as it being proven that this is a gang, I don't think the "tagging" or "graffiti" proves Gannon's and Duarte's theory very convincingly. Smiley faces are a very commonly used type of graffiti and I believe it is more of a coincidence than anything. How do they know that someone didn't go back and put the smiley face there at a later time. Did Gannon and Duarte go and investigate each and everyone of these cases at the same time local LE was on the case?

Why I am not convinced of any of this still is that the smiley faces have NOT been found at all drowning sites, primarily the ones in Minnesota & Wisconsin, including Chris Jenkins. If these were truly all linked by the smiley graffiti then it would be at ALL of the places these drownings occurred.

If there truly was this hard evidence that Gannon and Duarte claim to have there would not be all the questions still looming and there would be charges filed.

Am I off my rocker??!! I need something logical and proven for me to believe them, isn't this why the FBI and LE have done nothing? Someone has figured out how to commit the perfect murder. I think it's just that simple.

So I hope I haven't offended anyone~this is just what I believe.

I didn't think these were street gangs either; but we'll see. You're not off your rocker; these are near perfect crimes and the detectives are still choosing to only show smileys and not the other graffitti. These crimes go back 11 years; so a lot of smileys could have faded away or been cleaned off. Also it's no guarantee that Gannon's technique using flow currents and GPS tracking figured out all the entry points accurately; so they might have missed some grafitti. In albany they investigated and found nothing and a week later a smiley was found by the father's daughter, so they missed that one or it was drawn later as either a twisted hoax; or to taunt Gannon

 

[SheerLuck]

Who ever has orchestrated this weather it be one person or two is highly intelligent.
Somehow there is a connection between all these young men, something so simple that is right there in front of our face yet we just don't see it. SO FRUSTRATING!! I just want this to stop............

The easiest person to harm is a young white drunk college male who's a good person, with little street sense. You don't have to be smart to make friends with them and drug their beer when they go to the bathroom. You just have to be a psychotic . Since going public; Gannon said there were some close calls where the killers almost got caught. He said a kid and his friends contacted him. They said they left a bar and started to separate and 2 of the kids looked back and saw their friend being pushed into a van by 2 guys. They rescued their friend, had a fist fight and left. But didn't think to get the plate number

 

[DeltaDawn]

The easiest person to harm is a young white drunk college male who's a good person, with little street sense. You don't have to be smart to make friends with them and drug their beer when they go to the bathroom. You just have to be a psychotic . Since going public; Gannon said there were some close calls where the killers almost got caught. He said a kid and his friends contacted him. They said they left a bar and started to separate and 2 of the kids looked back and saw their friend being pushed into a van by 2 guys. They rescued their friend, had a fist fight and left. But didn't think to get the plate number

On another site also discussing these crimes, I found that same incident described by the young man who was a few feet away literally of being put in the van. He was lucky his friends were so alert to what was happening. And he had been drugged, a female was used as bait, and two guys were leading him to a van holding him by his belt loops. When his friends realized what was going on they intervened. Since we aren't supposed to link to other forums I can't provide the link. But it was either another forum or a comment he wrote after one of the news articles..where people write in their own comments on the article.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

OK Back and have tons to catch up on. Where are we? Anything really new?

 

[RR0004]

OK Back and have tons to catch up on. Where are we? Anything really new?

So glad you're ok!!

 

[RR0004]

I've been reading all the recent posts about Gannon's theory not jiving with the Professor's and I was just wondering, could there be a connection between the killers? I'm trying to see outside the box, so to speak, 'cause I'm having a difficult time invisioning gangs...in the true sense of the word. But, what if it did all start with one psychotic killer who then got a network going online, perhaps? There are a bunch of sick people out there. I don't think it would take much. The internet (and it's information highway) has IMO created a very different kind of generation. You just never know.

Hope this makes sense. I just have this feeling...hard to put into words.

 

[SheerLuck]

On another site also discussing these crimes, I found that same incident described by the young man who was a few feet away literally of being put in the van. He was lucky his friends were so alert to what was happening. And he had been drugged, a female was used as bait, and two guys were leading him to a van holding him by his belt loops. When his friends realized what was going on they intervened. Since we aren't supposed to link to other forums I can't provide the link. But it was either another forum or a comment he wrote after one of the news articles..where people write in their own comments on the article.

If you can't send a link; can you cut and paste what the person wrote? Thats interesting; although its impossible to know if any given atempted abduction is the same gang that Gannon suspects in the other cases or an isolated incident. But if the kid was drugged, led out of the bar with a girl and 2 guys heading towards a van; that would seem to be the way. A good looking girl as bait makes sense, but friends of the victims seem to always say they got separated but they never say that they saw their friend with a girl. There's a case in the south; I think North Carolina last November; which I don't think has been mentioned by Gannon yet; but video shows the victim leaving the bar with a blonde girl in front of him and 2 guys behind him. I'll post that after work later and a few other cases I foubd that might be connected; 1 was Idaho I think

 

[nursebeeme]

Hey SS! I just finished catching up too! I have been busy in my huge vegetable garden (that I hope does not get sucked up by tornados! I am stationed in Kansas now and we have been having tons of those lately and right now actually LOL).

IMHOO, this is not the bloods and the crips. Again, it is just a feeling.

I also tend to think that the way these kids are abducted varies depending on the situation as some of the cases did not originate in bars. Most of the earlier cases did but then it was almost watcing this alleged group flower and bloom into even sicker and more perverse methodology.

I think that it is about WHO these kids are and them being "picked" and then whatever method meets that end.... it is used....but they all end up in water.

I think the dicks are for sure measuring their words in interviews and public statements to either "out" these persons or to inflame them....such to perhaps insight mistakes that could end in their undoing.

I know I have bumped this up so very many times....but I want to bump it again on methods of cult torture that do not involve leaving ANY marks whatsoever (one of them being near drowning as if you are going to end up putting a person in water near drowning torture is not going to show up on a post). Some others are hanging upside down, spinning, confining to a box, application of things to induce fear such as maggots, etc....list goes on...

http://truthbeknown2000.tripod.com/Truthbeknown2000/id22.html

Also another bump on some research I had done a while back on water cults:

Seems there is such a thing as a water cult that dates back to prechristianity where water was worshiped...sometimes with the use of sacrifice via drowning in the name of pagan gods. Then along came the christians and ~snip~ Consequently, with a veneer of Christianity, and the substitution of a saint's name, water worship has held its own to our day." (Bonser 1974, 29).

entire archeological article can be found here : http://www.antipope.org/feorag/wells/perth-talk.html

Additionaly, ~snip~

"Where fresh water runs there runs spirit, and this is particularly so wherever water springs up from below the earth, for it comes from the realm of the earth goddess and bears her gifts. Properly every spring has its season of efficacy when its virtues are most generously displayed. In times before doctors, psychiatrists, marriage guidance officials, newspaper horoscopes, drugs and artificial fertilisers, all their functions were exercised by the spirits of the local springs, who required no payment but respect and attention" (Michell 1975, quoted in Whelan and Taylor 1989, 8).


Perhaps there IS a connection to the catholic school?? These cases were all in different bodies of water 'from the earth'. Why did blood hounds pick up Chris Jenkins' scent at the catholic school when he did not go there to school? Hmmmm....
​

 

[SuziQ]

I just listened to the WGY podcast with Josh Szostak's father. Towards the end he discusses the evidence he's been able to go through. He's been able to determine that Josh left the bar wearing a hoodie over a white t-shirt with a leather jacket tied around his waist. But when he was found, the hoodie was gone, and the white t-shirt was over the jacket. Who puts a tshirt over a leather jacket?

Josh Szostak Case
Update with Bill Szostak.

http://a1135.g.akamai.net/f/1135/18...PCAST_CAT=news&PCAST_TITLE=Al_Roney_On-Demand

 

[nursebeeme]

dude...that is strange about the clothing changes. If we were to work backwards...what would be the reason to take the shirts off and then put them back on in that order? It seems like posing to me....

 

[SuziQ]

There weren't many with clothing removed and I found none with all of their clothing removed, but here is the break down for anyone interested;
Charles Blatz 9/28/97 missing one shoe/sock
Nathan Kapfer 2-22-98 hat, wallet & citations were neatly arranged near Indian Statue in the park
Chris Nordby 11/07/01 his bag was later discovered near Miss. river
Michael Noll 11/-06-02 he dropped his baseball hat inside of the house of an elderly woman, whose home he had walked into in the early morn hrs
Jared Dion 4-10-04 cap found hanging on a post nearby
Marlon Blue 4-17-04 shirt & cell ph found outside of bldg he was last seen
Adam Falcon 11-13-04 cell ph & hat found several blocks from bar last seen at
Josh Snell 6-12-05 two shirts found in owen park along W. bank of river

I'm bumping part of a post Az made regarding the clothing in other cases.

 

[SuziQ]

dude...that is strange about the clothing changes. If we were to work backwards...what would be the reason to take the shirts off and then put them back on in that order? It seems like posing to me....

I don't know. And it's going to drive me crazy.

 

[nursebeeme]

Also, SuziQ...one other thing I took from that radio broadcast above during the Gannon interview was this: Gannon stated that many of the possible vics had previous connections such as same town, same highschools, shared similar friends etc, but he would not go any further on it.

During that same interview, pertaining to the marks, tags, and regions...Gannon stated that the smiley was common in 1/13th...but that there were 12 other tags with 2-3 distinct ones being used in each region. Just using my common third grade multiplication and division I am surmising there are four known regions of gang activity but I have to listen back to it to get which states were part of which region.

Would it make sense to lump the cases by region instead of state due to what Gannon seems to be saying.

Ohio, PA and NY were one region for sure (and VT may also be included in this region as well...depending on what the dicks find after they go back to VT to investigate further)..

If these kids had common connections the connections could be regional and not just by state.....

 

[SuziQ]

Would it make sense to lump the cases by region instead of state due to what Gannon seems to be saying.

Ohio, PA and NY were one region for sure (and VT may also be included in this region as well...depending on what the dicks find after they go back to VT to investigate further)..

If these kids had common connections the connections could be regional and not just by state.....

It definitely would if we knew for sure what states were in which regions.

At the footprints site it does discuss connections in some of the cases. I'll have to go back and look.

 

[nursebeeme]

going back to listen again about the regions.....

 

[SuziQ]

Whoa, went to Footprints and right on the front page is a new post regarding coincidences. I'm hearing twilight zone music. I'm just snipping part for copyright reasons. You'll have to go to the link to read the rest:

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2008/06/six-degrees-of-separation.html

(snip)
Sunday, June 1, 2008

Six degrees of separation


#fullpost {display:none;}I am just starting the process of coming up with a list of odd coincidences between these cases. Here are a few I've found. I will try to keep adding to this list.

Lincoln: Olsen was last seen on Lincoln Hwy. Nick Rossini and Nathan Edberg's mothers worked at Lincoln Elementary School. Max Walker was from Lincoln, NE. Josh Stostak is believed to have last passed by Lincoln Park by Martin Luther King Monument. Brian Welzien spent his evening at a bar on Lincoln Street. [Note: There is also an area in Chicago known as Lincoln Park, but at this point, I do not know whether there is a connection to any of the Chicago men.] And, it may be a stretch, but Willie Jacobson was a member of a student group called Youth Against War and Racism (Lincoln was instrumental in ending slavery). (much more at link)

ETA: the two comments at the bottom of the page are interesting.