Deaths of Male College Students-General Discussion #4

[RR0004]

Just to get some feedback I asked my daughter who just graduated from school out in Wisconsin if she ever heard of such a thing...she said she'd NEVER heard of anything so crazy...and she was a big partier in the Greek system. I also asked her about guys getting drunk and jumping in the lake in the middle of winter...she said there may have been a couple of incidents (like that's not crazy!), but it wasn't the kind of thing anyone would do alone. Which makes me wonder, once again, about that poor boy up in Ithaca.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

So they would do it if they were not alone?

 

[RR0004]

So they would do it if they were not alone?

Yes, she said she had heard of it. You have to understand that the student union (which served beer) was situated on the lake so you didn't have to walk far to do something stupid. For the time she was there, no one had died THAT way. There was a missing student, though, who did end up being found in Lake Mendota. She was of the belief that it had been a suicide (no evidence of foul play). I came across another drowning, though, which doesn't sit well with me. It was a young man who was found in a hotel swimming pool in Madison (clothes neatly piled)...supposedly he was there visiting "guests" after having left a local bar. The "guests" were a couple who he didn't know supposedly. Very weird. It was Halloween weekend 2006. (Madison goes wild every October!)

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Halloween is the same time that Chris Jenkins died.

We also know that no foul play means that foul play could occur, but there simply is no proof of it. Do you know the names of both boys?

 

[RR0004]

Halloween is the same time that Chris Jenkins died.

We also know that no foul play means that foul play could occur, but there simply is no proof of it. Do you know the names of both boys?

EXACTLY! Kenji Ohmi and Darrell McCann were the two young men. Even McCann's death didn't sit well with LE:

http://badgerherald.com/news/2006/11/01/police_unsure_of_dro.php

Also saw a recent post of a close relative of McCann's on HFTM...makes reference to the detectives. This relative states that LE never discovered who the "guests" were.

 

[RR0004]

Justin Gaines went missing shortly after Halloween as well.

 

[mysteriew]

I haven't been following this since the early days (back when they were all thought to be accidents). But I do have some thoughts. Here is what I remember.

The guys were college age, go to bars- usually with a friend but they leave alone. When found they are usually ruled an accidental drowning. Usually no drugs found in the system, but a high BAC. Usually no signs of a struggle.

Tonight I was reading about the fact that they think this may be a 'group' of some type committing the killings. Could they be female???

My thinking- what would make a guy who was drinking heavily leave a bar alone, without the friend he came with? Guys that go to a bar with a friend, usually leave with that friend- unless they meet up with a woman.

Let's face it, an inebriated person is pretty easily led around if they are the opposite sex. A female could dare a guy to sit or stand on the railing and easily push a guy over the railing on a bridge, if he was drunk enough. They wouldn't even need a weapon, there would be no signs of a struggle.

I was thinking about motive. It could be a group of female serial killer fans, but I don't think so. The type of victims they are picking suggest something else to me. Could it be an online group in a supportive type of site for date rape/drug rape victims? Date rape is or has been a problem on many college campuses. I am not suggesting that these victims committed date rape, but that possiby the killers may have been raped in the past and feel they have a score to settle. Getting even for what may have happened to them, even if it was done by someone else.

So they meet online and talk about it, and decide to get even/take back the power and self confidence they lost after being raped. They come up with a plan, they each go to a bar and find a guy of the right age (college bar) who is inebriated. She talks to him, maybe sends him a few drinks and when he is good and drunk she asks him to walk her home or to her car or she offers to walk with him to sober up a little. There haven't usually been any witnesses who sees the guy after he leaves the bar, but no one may be asking them about a couple.

Afterwards they meet back online with their website group friends and talk about it. They probably don't see it as revenge against men. They probably see it more as taking back their self confidence and power.

I don't know, feasible?

 

[SheerLuck]

Does anyone else find it extremly strange that the mean, median, and mode of the BAC of some victims were exactly .24? I don't know that that means, but that sticks out to me as very strange.
http://crimsonshadows.net/forum/showthread.php?t=1000

.24 is three times the legal limit. It's a very high level of intoxication and for a young man who has not built up a tolerance from many years of drinking; it often means being staggerring drunk. If a 150 pound male drinks 10 beers in 4 hours; he would lose 4 of these beers; as people lose about 1 12 ounce beer or 1 ounce of 80 proof liquor every hour. So 10 beers in 4 hours is 6 beers worth towards BAC and it's about .025 per beer for a 150 pound male. So 10 beers in 4 hours for a 150 pound male is about a .15 BAC(6 times .025). To reach a .24 in 4 hours a 150 pound male would need about 14 beers or they'd need about 16 beers in 6 hours. Now combine that with some marijuana, cocaine, crystal meth, acid, mescaline, ecstasy or even worse; a strong depressent like GHB; and you got an accident waiting to happen. And if every weekend of the school year you got 20,000 or more young men reaching this level of intoxication; is it a surprise that maybe 3 or 4 each year accidentally stumble into rivers or small ponds and quickly succumb to hyperthermia and die?

 

[SeriouslySearching]

YES it IS a surprise when it does not occur in every other college community with water, alcohol, and same circumstances!! This is what people do not get! If it were happening all over the country, it could then be considered accidental across the board. We know it is NOT happening all over the country, but in a select few areas. How do the stats account for this phenomenon?!

We have extremely drunk college aged males going out 7 days a week here during the months of school sessions with the Arkansas River a few blocks (some bars even on the river)...NO fences, riprap, or anything but bank or bridges between them...and it is odd that we have only had ONE drowning because the guy decided to ride a raft on a sidecreek that sucked him into the river after a storm.

Why aren't our males running to jump into the river?! Why aren't they drowning in the fountains and ponds on our college campuses?! Are they smarter?! Are they better behaved binge drinkers who never have accidents?! It is ridiculous to think that a 12 pack of beer will make a guy jump in a freaking river. Not going to happen. Into a bed with a coed maybe...but not a river.

 

[scswimmom]

Why aren't our males running to jump into the river?! Why aren't they drowning in the fountains and ponds on our college campuses?! Are they smarter?! Are they better behaved binge drinkers who never have accidents?! It is ridiculous to think that a 12 pack of beer will make a guy jump in a freaking river. Not going to happen. Into a bed with a coed maybe...but not a river.

I totally agree. To me, that sounds absolutely preposterous, as well as the idea that a gang of vengeful women are to blame (no offense--JMO).

 

[SheerLuck]

I would be very surprised if the majority (if any) of these kids took GHB on their own. JMO

Why? Most fit the profile of the recreational user and many were drinking for several hours and had 2 or 3 times the legal limit whic is 15 or more beers. And GHB's recreational popularity is limited mostly to young men because women fear the date rape aspect; so maybe this explains; in part; why its only men walking in rivers. The first thing taught in rehab is that addiction has no prejudice and that high IQ and athleticism make no difference once the party begins. Here's one of 100's of articles explaining the dangers and popularity as a recreational drug:

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/ghb/ghb_basics.shtml

Here's the beginning: GHB is used most commonly in the form of a chemical salt which is taken recreationally as a depressant with effects quite similar to those of alcohol. These salts are powders but are most often mixed with water for recreational use. While GHB is most notorious for a few cases where it has been given to unsuspecting individuals, it is more commonly used as a recreational intoxicant like alcohol, as a sleep-aid, or as a supplement by body-builders. and at the bottom of article:

PROBLEMS
Unfortunately, GHB has a few prominent problems which, in combination, can be quite dangerous. The difference between a recreational dose and a mild overdose (temporarily unrousable sleep) can be as little as 1-2 grams, the equivalent of a single dosage unit. Combining GHB with alcohol can lead to nausea, vomiting, and unconsciousness at even lower levels. Also, because GHB often comes in liquid form and because the concentration of this liquid is difficult to determine, it is relatively common for people to accidentally take a larger dose of GHB than they think they are taking. Everyone thinks it can't happen to them

 

[SheerLuck]

I agree too..because most of these guys go missing after a night on the town..why would someone wait till the partys over to take GHB?

Dawn; it might be that you had to have lived this life to understand better. There is nothing rational about drinking and drugging to excess. Whatever drug your doing; you just keep doing until you run out or the night ends. GHB is just one of many drugs that lead to being completely trashed. It appears the be the most powerful the past 15 years; so I'm stressing it, but there's acid, mescaline, crack, coke, crystal meth and all the others? I went to college before crack and hung out with some of the best athletes and smartest kids and many of them free based coke every weekend(freebasing is smoking coke; just like crack). Luke Homan was a star basketball player, 6 foot 3 and probably at least 170-190 pounds; but he had a .32 BAC. This is like drinking 25 beers in 8 hours if you weigh 180. And here's Patrick Kycia with a 3.65 GPA who weighs 230 and had a .175 BAC. He went to a party and did shots of whiskey. To be .175 and weigh 230 you need about 4 beers and 10 shots of whiskey in just 4 hours time

http://footprintsattheriversedge.blogspot.com/2006/12/092305-patrick-kycia-19-moorhead-mn.html

 

[SheerLuck]

You are right. If they were taking it to get high and party...they would take it before or at the beginning of the party...not on the way home. Also, someone else at the party would be privy to this kind of information. Friends know the drugs other friends are on. It is just the way it is.

Consider yourself smart and strong to have not ever been caught up in the 15 beer/2 joint nights that extended into other stronger drugs, but that's not how partying works and friends who party with friends who die always say 2 things: we didn't do any drugs and my friend looked fine when he left.

 

[SheerLuck]

EXACTLY! Kenji Ohmi and Darrell McCann were the two young men. Even McCann's death didn't sit well with LE:

http://badgerherald.com/news/2006/11/01/police_unsure_of_dro.php

Also saw a recent post of a close relative of McCann's on HFTM...makes reference to the detectives. This relative states that LE never discovered who the "guests" were.

Kenji Ohmi looked like either a murder or a suicide

Ohmi was seen by his roommates after a dorm party on Friday, January 28. A videorecording also captured him leaving his apartment complex at 202 N. Hamilton St. (about 4 city blocks from Lake Mendota) at 6:45 a.m. on January 28, 2006. He did not take his wallet with him or, despite the cold rain coming down outside, his umbrella. There's no indication why Ohmi left that morning.

 

[SheerLuck]

YES it IS a surprise when it does not occur in every other college community with water, alcohol, and same circumstances!! This is what people do not get! If it were happening all over the country, it could then be considered accidental across the board. We know it is NOT happening all over the country, but in a select few areas. How do the stats account for this phenomenon?!

We have extremely drunk college aged males going out 7 days a week here during the months of school sessions with the Arkansas River a few blocks (some bars even on the river)...NO fences, riprap, or anything but bank or bridges between them...and it is odd that we have only had ONE drowning because the guy decided to ride a raft on a sidecreek that sucked him into the river after a storm.

Why aren't our males running to jump into the river?! Why aren't they drowning in the fountains and ponds on our college campuses?! Are they smarter?! Are they better behaved binge drinkers who never have accidents?! It is ridiculous to think that a 12 pack of beer will make a guy jump in a freaking river. Not going to happen. Into a bed with a coed maybe...but not a river.

SS, you make good points and I agree with you and others that some of these appear to be murder, but I think most are accidents caused by excessive partying and hyperthermia; which can kill within 15 minutes; if a kid is wasted and alone and just can't grip anything or if he swallows a big gulp of water and goes under. And remember Gannon ruled out about 20 and agreed with LE that they really were just accidental drownings; so why did these 20 kids accidentally drown and do we know where they lived? Did he simply rule out deaths that weren't in the north? I think the hyperthemia is the big overlooked factor and explains why the north has most of these and why they occur between september and april. Here is the cold water link if you missed it:

http://www.ussartf.org/cold_water_survival.htm

 

[SeriouslySearching]

I don't think cold water has a thing to do with it. I think they are making a mistake if they ruled out ANY of these as accidents unless they included a boat, a raft, or camping.

We have ice cold water here in the winter, too!! The point is...Drunk boys are NOT falling in at ANY TIME. They are not jumping in. They are not walking straight to the river after a night of drinking. They are not falling into ponds or fountains located all across the campuses and cities. IT SIMPLY IS NOT HAPPENING!!

 

[SheerLuck]

Just to get some feedback I asked my daughter who just graduated from school out in Wisconsin if she ever heard of such a thing...she said she'd NEVER heard of anything so crazy...and she was a big partier in the Greek system. I also asked her about guys getting drunk and jumping in the lake in the middle of winter...she said there may have been a couple of incidents (like that's not crazy!), but it wasn't the kind of thing anyone would do alone. Which makes me wonder, once again, about that poor boy up in Ithaca.

If most here are women; it's easy when you study these cases; to forget or not even realize that a lot of men like to go swimming when they're young and drunk. It's a guy thing more. Maybe women are smarter at times or maybe it's not their thing, but me and my friends used to go down to the Hudson River after a night out and we'd party sometimes right on the Hudson River waterfront. In the summer; we'd swim late night and the girls would just watch. Women loved the beach but seemed afraid late night or when they drank a lot, but we had no worries. We didn't swim in the winter; but every now and then; some drunk young guy would take a swim in the freezing cold and we'd all just laugh. Would they ever do it alone? I think some would if the mood struck them. Why not?

 

[SheerLuck]

I don't think cold water has a thing to do with it. I think they are making a mistake if they ruled out ANY of these as accidents unless they included a boat, a raft, or camping.

We have ice cold water here in the winter, too!! The point is...Drunk boys are NOT falling in at ANY TIME. They are not jumping in. They are not walking straight to the river after a night of drinking. They are not falling into ponds or fountains located all across the campuses and cities. IT SIMPLY IS NOT HAPPENING!!

Well SS, you might be right. My thing is I researched every possible angle and about 50 cases and it just seems to me that accidental drownings from excessive partying seems the most likely cause. I even researched Suzys idea about fetish drowning; as unpleasnt as that was; and still concluded there is nothing here but accidents. I'm open minded and will research other ideas and motives, but not one; except for redical Muslims; really makes 100% sense to me; other than drunken accidents

 

[RR0004]

I wouldn't go in the Hudson if you paid me...the bacteria could kill you. If you study the family background of some of these kids...no way they drank to excess, took excessive amounts of drugs, walked down desolate streets, and jumped into the Hudson River ALONE! I'm not being naive here. I had 2 kids who partied there butts off at Big Ten schools and have spoken to them at length...not to say there isn't a group of kids at every school that are into drugs, but with all due respect, I truly don't think this is the common denominator here.

 

[SeriouslySearching]

Research other states and you will soon figure out that these so-called accidents ONLY occur in areas where these men are being found with the exception of the one in WA state. There is no way that I can rectify the men there are so stupid and others are just smarter when they are out partying. It is not logical no matter how you slice it. It simply IS NOT and HAS NOT happened in other areas like those. Period.