Defense to depose Dr. G

[suepitzl]

I don't think she will be able to say peri-mortem. MOO

 

[suepitzl]

Sorry, that was suppose to be a response to a post on the first page of this thread

 

[logicalgirl]

I don't think she will be able to say peri-mortem. MOO

I believe she will. The way I understand it is as soon as a body dies, decomposition sets in. And Dr. G. is saying prior to decomposition. But darn I will have to look up why she believes that to be true.

Such an important point and my mind just can't pull that info up! :loser:

Anyone?

 

[drip~drop]

I believe it "Ima-dum-mass" well in his case anyway.:dance:

Allllllllllllllllrighty then.

It's your turn to clean my keyboard!:laugh:

 

[logicalgirl]

Allllllllllllllllrighty then.

It's your turn to clean my keyboard!:laugh:

LOL, shortly after I joined WS, I bought myself a crockpot, AND one of those spiffy soft clear plastic covers for my keyboard. Very necessary somedays for some of the comments the wise guys here let fly. Stand up comics have nothing on WS!

 

[drip~drop]

LOL, shortly after I joined WS, I bought myself a crockpot, AND one of those spiffy soft clear plastic covers for my keyboard. Very necessary somedays for some of the comments the wise guys here let fly. Stand up comics have nothing on WS!

2 good investments. I'll have to see about getting one of those spiffy clear covers!

 

[momtective]

Allllllllllllllllrighty then.

It's your turn to clean my keyboard!:laugh:

LOL, shortly after I joined WS, I bought myself a crockpot, AND one of those spiffy soft clear plastic covers for my keyboard. Very necessary somedays for some of the comments the wise guys here let fly. Stand up comics have nothing on WS!

Sorry but he just makes it soooooo easy.:dance: Sometimes we just have to laugh around here to keep from crying.

 

[sleutherontheside]

Dr. G. and some references....

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/5875287
Dr. Garavaglia is a member of the National Association of Medical Examiners and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and is the recipient of the Hidalgo Award, presented by the Bexar County Commissioners Court in Texas for "outstanding work assisting agencies and providing forensic science services during a multi-jurisdictional capital murder investigation."She has also given numerous presentations and lectures at various institutions, and has been published in media such as the Journal of Forensic Sciences and The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology.


beginning pg 13
http://www.barbespublishing.com/images/CFDDec07ForWeb.pdf
There is a
great deal of information gathered before
any autopsy, including a complete medical
and social history, photographs of the
crime scene, and police or eyewitness
accounts.
“We look at all the circumstances of the
death,” Dr. Garavaglia said. “We want to
re-create that person’s life prior to death,
by talking to everyone he or she knew.
Were they upset about something? In
financial trouble, or having health or relationship
problems? Florida’s Sunshine Law
makes autopsies public record. If possible,
I do try to inform the family prior to
any release of information to the media.”

 

[Aedrys]

RSBM. And RBBM.

Wow. To think, I've been around here long enough to remember a now-banned former member making the same red-herring claims about minimal attachment of the duct tape, in fact even suggesting that the duct tape floated up to the skull during flooding.... when in fact the duct tape was found wrapped around Caylee's face so tightly that her mandible never separated from her skull, despite the obvious activity of animals who dragged her spine and extremities far from her original gravesite.

Mason's claim that the duct tape wasn't over Caylee's nose or airways is not a "bold claim" Mr. Kealing, it is a "red herring." A "desperate attempt by the defense to confuse the potential jury pool." An "opinion that will be proved false by the evidence."

:furious:

I remember that! My jaw dropped to the floor. I could not believe that people were willing to go so far outside of logic and common sense to make Casey not guilty. Desperation at it's finest, I say.

And apparently Mason is doing his spin, spin, spin. I am so waiting for them to say that Caylee accidently put duct tape on herself when she was playing with it and Casey found her dead, panicked, and threw her in the swamp so she wouldn't get into trouble with her mom or the law for neglect. Nevermind that the pieces were ripped in a way that Caylee wouldn't have been able to do much less that that she wouldn't accidently get three strips over her mouth...

Oh, and I LOVE the noncredibility because she couldn't determine a cause of death...after all that time out in the elements including a freaking HURRICANE Mr. Mason, NO ONE can POSSIBLY figure out the exact cause of death except your CLIENT who was the ONLY one there when it happened!

Oh he makes me SO MAD. You'll see in court, Mr. Mason, just how important Dr. G is! I really wish the defense would just shut up instead of continuing to make some nonsensical comments that they don't have a prayer in hell of tainting a jury with. Jeebus.

 

[Numbers]

Dr. G. and some references....

http://en.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/5875287
Dr. Garavaglia is a member of the National Association of Medical Examiners and the American Academy of Forensic Sciences, and is the recipient of the Hidalgo Award, presented by the Bexar County Commissioners Court in Texas for "outstanding work assisting agencies and providing forensic science services during a multi-jurisdictional capital murder investigation."She has also given numerous presentations and lectures at various institutions, and has been published in media such as the Journal of Forensic Sciences and The American Journal of Forensic Medicine and Pathology.


beginning pg 13
http://www.barbespublishing.com/images/CFDDec07ForWeb.pdf
There is a
great deal of information gathered before
any autopsy, including a complete medical
and social history, photographs of the
crime scene, and police or eyewitness
accounts.
“We look at all the circumstances of the
death,” Dr. Garavaglia said. “We want to
re-create that person’s life prior to death,
by talking to everyone he or she knew.
Were they upset about something? In
financial trouble, or having health or relationship
problems? Florida’s Sunshine Law
makes autopsies public record. If possible,
I do try to inform the family prior to
any release of information to the media.”

Soooooooooo....... What you're saying is that LKB will have to have a battle of wits with a person of (much) higher intellect, a vastly higher level of expertise, and a greater amount of class, self-assurance, and respect for justice? Krect?

Hmm.

Wonder how that will go?

Crystal ball say: Dr. G: 100, LKB: 0.

 

[luv]

I remember that! My jaw dropped to the floor. I could not believe that people were willing to go so far outside of logic and common sense to make Casey not guilty. Desperation at it's finest, I say.

And apparently Mason is doing his spin, spin, spin. I am so waiting for them to say that Caylee accidently put duct tape on herself when she was playing with it and Casey found her dead, panicked, and threw her in the swamp so she wouldn't get into trouble with her mom or the law for neglect. Nevermind that the pieces were ripped in a way that Caylee wouldn't have been able to do much less that that she wouldn't accidently get three strips over her mouth...

Oh, and I LOVE the noncredibility because she couldn't determine a cause of death...after all that time out in the elements including a freaking HURRICANE Mr. Mason, NO ONE can POSSIBLY figure out the exact cause of death except your CLIENT who was the ONLY one there when it happened!

Oh he makes me SO MAD. You'll see in court, Mr. Mason, just how important Dr. G is! I really wish the defense would just shut up instead of continuing to make some nonsensical comments that they don't have a prayer in hell of tainting a jury with. Jeebus.

You are one of the WS posters that I feel I have to sign in for just to press the Thanks button!:angel:

 

[logicalgirl]

I believe she will. The way I understand it is as soon as a body dies, decomposition sets in. And Dr. G. is saying prior to decomposition. But darn I will have to look up why she believes that to be true.

Such an important point and my mind just can't pull that info up! :loser:

Anyone?

Wow, can't some one answer this one for me? I'm starting to feel like I'm riding in the same boxcar as Mr. C. Mason.:loser:

 

[Ada]

An "accident" is all they have. ICA's own stated fear of her mother will be the reason she covered it up, and stayed away. We have all seen CA in action, and I would have been messed up myself if that woman had raised me. Not making excuses, cuz there are none.....but this is all the defense has. And, they are working hard at it too. (Mitigation specialist). The defense will just say Caylee's murder wasn't "intentional" ( duct tape spin )

After watching the way ICA interacted with CA in the jail videos, I think it would be difficult to show that she in any way feared her.

 

[Numbers]

Wow, can't some one answer this one for me? I'm starting to feel like I'm riding in the same boxcar as Mr. C. Mason.:loser:

"Considering the dispersal of the skeletal remains, it would not be expected to find the mandible in this position unless something affixed the mandible in this position prior to decomposition and the hair matting forming."

Autopsy Report

More at bottom of page 14.

Synopsis: Decomp would have eliminated the soft tissue that held the mandible in place; hence the tape was applied pre-decomp.

Hope this helps! :seeya:

 

[beach]

Wow, can't some one answer this one for me? I'm starting to feel like I'm riding in the same boxcar as Mr. C. Mason.:loser:

In addition to the autopsy report that Numbers linked -

Antemortem is before death
Perimortem is at or around the time of death
Postmortem is after death


It is my understanding that Dr. G is able to rule OUT postmortem, but cannot specify if the duct tape was placed antemortem or perimortem.

Someone please correct me if I misunderstood.

​

 

[Bree0372]

I have nothing to add, but I believe this post bears repeating - especially the bold part (BBM).

Thank you, Aedrys, for saying what I was thinking.

I remember that! My jaw dropped to the floor. I could not believe that people were willing to go so far outside of logic and common sense to make Casey not guilty. Desperation at it's finest, I say.

And apparently Mason is doing his spin, spin, spin. I am so waiting for them to say that Caylee accidently put duct tape on herself when she was playing with it and Casey found her dead, panicked, and threw her in the swamp so she wouldn't get into trouble with her mom or the law for neglect. Nevermind that the pieces were ripped in a way that Caylee wouldn't have been able to do much less that that she wouldn't accidently get three strips over her mouth...

Oh, and I LOVE the noncredibility because she couldn't determine a cause of death...after all that time out in the elements including a freaking HURRICANE Mr. Mason, NO ONE can POSSIBLY figure out the exact cause of death except your CLIENT who was the ONLY one there when it happened!

Oh he makes me SO MAD. You'll see in court, Mr. Mason, just how important Dr. G is! I really wish the defense would just shut up instead of continuing to make some nonsensical comments that they don't have a prayer in hell of tainting a jury with. Jeebus.

 

[joypath]

How about we consider the duct tape as a modern day spanx! It was present in such a manner that the normal decomposition of the human body was modified in such a way that the mandible which would have dropped or disarticulated when the soft tissue "melted away" remained in the same place as it normally is when functioning on a living human (give or take some inches)

Does this crude explanation help?

Place your hand at the back of your mouth (grab your mouth like the proverbial cutsie grandma) and open and close your jaw, feel the looseness and "give". There's not a heck of a lot of "hinging" that hangs the jaw in place thus we can articulate (some better than others!) This "hinge" point is effected by gravity at death (some may have observed the "O" factor when an individual's mouth/jaw slacks open), another point that indicates that the tape was applied prior to progressive decomposition.

 

[shotgun09]

After watching the way ICA interacted with CA in the jail videos, I think it would be difficult to show that she in any way feared her.

Understanding your point, however what we all watched in the jail videos was a "family" who knew they were being watched. Cindy's controlling manners will come into play, I am sure. Whether during the guilt phase, or at sentencing.

 

[suepitzl]

As far as the duct tape being applied before, during or after death, the decompositon does not "melt away" the tissue that quickly, the tissue will start to break down but not disappear entirely right away. It is my opinion that Dr. G will only be able to say what her opinion is as far as when the duct tape was placed. I unfortunately do not think she will be able to say anything other than the duct tape was placed prior to decomposition, which is not the same as antemortem or perimortem. We all know it was placed before she was thoroughly decomposed.........It could have been placed right after death. I personally do not think that it was, I think it was antemortem but I have seen no evidence to back that up. Others think it was post mortem to make it look like a kidnapping.......

 

[Spangle]

To be blunt. The tape will not adhere to wet.

Early decomp will leak from the mouth, making it wet. Which will make taping the mouth at that point impossible. Which is why peri (at or close to death) is considered possible, but not post. Considering the Florida heat and where she was located, that window of being able to apply the tape is very small.