GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

[Moll]

I'm just grateful to you for providing the links! I only mentioned that particular gender problem because (like the odd words instead of 'dismembering') it keeps coming up and people who haven't read the earlier posts may be baffled.

 

[SATA]

If it is true that he invited a number of women who all declined, it proves that Kim Wall is a random victim.

I think the reason her boyfriend told his story to the press is that there was speculation whether KW and PM knew each other beforehand - and even speculation that they were lovers.

They didn´t know each other. Only from mail and messages.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Kim Walls friend has written an article in the American magazine Wired after she decided to seek family, friends and acquaintances to the killing man to find out what happened to her girlfriend when she got on board Peter Madsen submarine and lost her life.

As a joke, the murderer, submarine builder Peter Madsen and some of those who worked with him allegedly gave themselves and each other nazi-inspired nicknames.

One of the Swedish journalist Kim Wall girlfriends writes in an article in the American magazine Wired after she decided to seek family, friends and acquaintances with Peter Madsen to find out what happened to her girlfriend when she stepped on board his submarine and lost his life.

In the article, the friend - American May Jeong writes - that she has, among other things, spoken to several who worked with Peter Madsen before he was arrested last year in August for killing the Swedish journalist aboard the Nautilus submarine.

One of the people she talked to is Jens Falkenberg, who helped build the submarine together with Peter Madsen, and until Kim Wall's death was one of his close friends.

"It's hard for us to understand what drives a madman, because we're not mad," he says in the interview.

Pretended as if he was violent Nazi
Furthermore, he allegedly explains to the friend that Peter Madsen could, as a joke, pretend he was a violent Nazi and sometimes pretended he wanted to beat Falkenberg while he could say things like: "Shall I hit you in the kidneys?" or: 'What if I inject battery acid into your blood vessels?'.

All in all, a number of Nazis were mentioned and joked with at Peter Madsen's workshop, May Jeong writes in the article.
The staff allegedly called each other for Nazi-inspired nicknames. Peter Madsens was, according to Falkenberg 'Kaleun' - after 'Kapitänleutnant' referring to the film 'Das Boot', which is about a fictional German submarine during World War II.

When they were on the submarine, the crew apparently often spoke German, as they repeated lines from the 1981 film.

And Yay its on real english:
https://www.wired.com/story/final-terrible-voyage-nautilus/

 

[Moll]

Thank you very much, LI.
Even though it's in real English I find there's a lot that's hard to understand...those comments from one of Madsen's former partners re imagining threats, for example. Not a game I'd ever play, would you?

 

[Legally Bland]

Kim Walls friend has written an article in the American magazine Wired after she decided to seek family, friends and acquaintances to the killing man to find out what happened to her girlfriend when she got on board Peter Madsen submarine and lost her life.



And Yay its on real english:
https://www.wired.com/story/final-terrible-voyage-nautilus/

I found this a bit disturbing, from your link.

I wrote Madsen two letters at Vestre Prison in Copenhagen, where he was being held before trial. I FedExed the first and dropped off the second in a mailbox near the jail. I told him who I was, who Kim had been, my sadness over losing her, and my wish that he would tell me what happened. One afternoon in January, months after I’d returned to New York, I went to pick up my mail and found an envelope with no return address. It was postmarked from Denmark on December 6, 2017, but that didn’t register until after I’d opened it and started scanning the neat, hand-written pages. It was only when I got to the word “submarine” that I realized Madsen had written to me from his detention cell. I remember telling myself to keep breathing as I tried to fold the pages back into the envelope. I did not succeed. The envelope was small and thin and ripped in my hands.

When I finally forced myself to look at the letters—there were three, dated in September and November—I was struck by their terrifying banality. He spoke plainly about the boredom of prison—he had few visitors and few pastimes besides writing. He described seeing Terminator 2 in prison and identifying with the character played by Linda Hamilton. He explained what he had access to (paper and pencil) and what he didn’t have access to (nearly everything else). He also wrote about Kim. He wrote that he thought about Kim every day and that he could “feel her spirit somehow.” There was a disturbing intimacy to his words, as if he were writing to an old friend. He flattered my writing style and invited me to visit. He asked me, “What are you? An explainer trying to understand? A terminator sent to terminate me? ... Without exception—whatever you are—you are welcome, I am all yours.” He ended one of the letters by saying “I will try to get this letter out to you as soon as possible, and hope that you will stay in touch as things gets easyer [sic].”

 

[ZaZara]

I found this a bit disturbing, from your link.

Agree. That is why you should better not write. Don't invite evil.

If she is wise, she'll leave it at that.

 

[meticulously]

Kim Walls friend has written an article in the American magazine Wired after she decided to seek family, friends and acquaintances to the killing man to find out what happened to her girlfriend when she got on board Peter Madsen submarine and lost her life.



And Yay its on real english:
https://www.wired.com/story/final-terrible-voyage-nautilus/

Thank you for that logical_inference
That is a better news link , in my opinion only .
Quoting from article:

"Our friendship began after we followed each other on Instagram and Facebook."
Snipped.....


"He says he has a murder plan ready in the submarine, and I tell him I am not afraid, you have to be more threatening. He talks about the tools he wants to use, and I say, ‘Oh it’s not threatening.’ ” The scenario darkened to inviting a friend to the submarine, where they would suddenly change the mood and begin cutting her up. At the time, the woman didn’t give the exchange much thought; it was not something she took seriously. After a lull in the back and forth, she responded by sending him a video of horses. The moment passed. The police now have the texts."

https://www.wired.com/story/final-terrible-voyage-nautilus/

 

[Logical_Inference]

Ofcourse his lawyer say its not true:

https://translate.google.com/transl...n-for-at-planlaegge-ubaadsdrab-nu-svarer-hans

Elskerinde = Mistress.....

 

[Logical_Inference]

I agree that its extremely disturbing, both that she writes to him and that he answer like he does.

I guess that the friend wanted to make money on the story, since its published, why else publish it. If she just wanted to find out the truth, then she could have kept it to her own little circle of people instead of throwing it out to the whole world.

And PM is .....just crazy! Even if they say that he is healthy enough to go to jail instead of a mental institution, then I would say that he really need to be locked up for the rest of his life. Its scary reading IMO.

 

[SATA]

Wow, just wow.

Some twisted games going on around Madsen before he actually became a killer.
People seem to have gone along with his sick, sick fantasies.


One more thing: his lawyer has tried to have the control and monitoring of his letters and his visits (by one person I think, probably his wife) cancelled.

That was refused.

 

[SATA]

Agree. That is why you should better not write. Don't invite evil.

If she is wise, she'll leave it at that.

Yes. Can´t believe she wrote him, what did she expect?

 

[SATA]

Yes. Can´t believe she wrote him, what did she expect?

Thinking further about this, I think that it is quite reprehensible that this woman made the correspondence public.

There is information in there that Kim Wall´s family and friends do not in any way need to hear or see!

 

[Satchie]

Yes. Can´t believe she wrote him, what did she expect?

I told him who I was, who Kim had been, my sadness over losing her, and my wish that he would tell me what happened.

Is she really that naive, that she would ask a man, accused of sexually sadistic torture and murder, who hasn't yet gone to trial, "what happened" ? Or is she just shameless and will do anything to get published in Wired, instead of Kim?

 

[Apelsin]

I thought May Jeong's article was one of the best I've seen published. She has together with the family set up a memorial fund for Kim Wall, and I am almost certain that she let them read before publication. I'd like to dispel a few myths here. Is in depth journalism an easy way to make a living? Of course not, real journalism doesn't pay the bills, lazily copying other people's work, never leaving your screen pays much better. Writing to Peter Madsen is not an offence, and I think his reply was interesting though completely sickening. She wanted answers, and so do we. Some were given. I am honestly a bit shocked that you would try to shame May, who like Kim Wall is doing real reporting in this thread, and I really don't understand why.

 

[Logical_Inference]

I thought May Jeong's article was one of the best I've seen published. She has together with the family set up a memorial fund for Kim Wall, and I am almost certain that she let them read before publication. I'd like to dispel a few myths here. Is in depth journalism an easy way to make a living? Of course not, real journalism doesn't pay the bills, lazily copying other people's work, never leaving your screen pays much better. Writing to Peter Madsen is not an offence, and I think his reply was interesting though completely sickening. She wanted answers, and so do we. Some were given. I am honestly a bit shocked that you would try to shame May, who like Kim Wall is doing real reporting in this thread, and I really don't understand why.

The problem with journalism is that there seems to be no sensitivity and no respect for privacy. Everything is good as long as people read what is published.

I dont know if the author has been communicating with the family, and I dont know if the family is ok with this.
All I know is that many us who have followed this case and watched the horrible news pop up with a rising cruelty as time went by and watched the difficult search for Kim, has a strong sympathy for her family. We somehow set ourself in their position and has a strong empathy for them.
If it was my daughter then I would not appreciate a friend starting her own investigation for WHY it happened. I would simply settle with that PM is crazy and that he just have to be locked up forever.
I dont need to know why, and even as a person that hasnt any knowledge of the persons involved and just have read the news about it, I find it kind of macabre that a person close to Kim would publish so much disgusting details. Even the police try to be sensitive with what they publish of information, sensitive with info of both the victim and the offender.

Now I will admit that I have double standards for what I read and watch, because I love to watch the ID channel with all sorts of crime stories, and yes its made by journalists. In some cases it is good to understand why a crime has happened, but not in this case IMO. What had happened with Kim is not for normal people to understand. This crime is done by a person with a twisted mind.

 

[Apelsin]

People are very different, and of course there are cases where journalists over step. In this case the journalist is one of the founders of KW memorial fund, she has met with the family and boyfriend. I sincerely doubt that she would cross those lines with them. Many people who have lost loved ones live with questions about the crime, even when the perpetrator is known. For me, the explanation "Madsen is crazy" is unsatisfactory. I want to know why he's crazy? How did the community, friends and family perceive him and affect him? And I also would like to know exactly what happened on that submarine and why. That's why I'm working on this case as a journalist.

 

[Moll]

I think both these points of view are entirely understandable. I read the article with interest and revulsion (at Madsen of course and to some extent others who seem to have enjoyed playing along with him before this crime took place). Thanks, Apelsin, for pointing out the extent of the journalist's involvement.

More prosaically I was surprised such an article could be published in the pre-trial period. In the UK defence lawyers seize on technical points relating to their client getting a fair trial, and I worried that something like that could happen here, but since he has opted not to have a jury, perhaps that ceases to be an issue. Judges won't be swayed by material not presented in court. In any case in the peculiar circumstances it makes no practical difference.

 

[Logical_Inference]

People are very different, and of course there are cases where journalists over step. In this case the journalist is one of the founders of KW memorial fund, she has met with the family and boyfriend. I sincerely doubt that she would cross those lines with them. Many people who have lost loved ones live with questions about the crime, even when the perpetrator is known. For me, the explanation "Madsen is crazy" is unsatisfactory. I want to know why he's crazy? How did the community, friends and family perceive him and affect him? And I also would like to know exactly what happened on that submarine and why. That's why I'm working on this case as a journalist.

In Denmark last year there was a girl on Kim Wall's age that went for a walk with her sisters dog in a park nearby a late afternoon.
Someone heard a loud scream and she was found dead on the walkway with multiple stabs and the dog was gone.
Someone saw a strange guy that acted weird, and maybe it was him who did that.
The police checked her backgriund and found nothing that could implicate that someone wanted her dead, so it seems to be a coincidence that she was to be a victim. It seems that she was on a wrong place on a wrong time.
She was pregnant too, by the way.

This case is where I would ask why. Why her? Why did she have to die? Did she see something she shouldnt have seen?
A lot of questions comes to my mind with this.

Anyway I respect that people are different, and that journalists have to search all over for the big story. But this is not just a journalist that made the article. Its a close friend. Its hard for me to see the reason for it as a personal friend, but it would be understandable if it just was a journalist with no ties to the victim, because otherwise you cant really be objective.
Maybe I would even understand it if she had waited with the publishing until after the trial, like a memorial to Kim. Maybe write a book about her or something.
But to publish an article like that just a few weeks before the trial is for me to see a question of making sure that she gets enough attention.

 

[ZaZara]

My five cents on this discussion.

IMHO you should not invite evil and PM is evil.
If for any reason, you do have to be in contact with such evil, you have to be grounded and supported.

I don't think a mourning friend is in the best situation to do this. Doesn't matter if she is a journalist or not. She is in shock, she is mourning, and grieving people are vulnerable. Not only are they vulnerable, they are probably not aware of it and there lies the double danger.


Psychiatrists, psychologists, forensic experts are now working on PM's psyche and whatever motivated him. They have the professional knowledge, the expertise, they know the pitfalls and the giveaways.

There will be a report. It may take a while.

 

[SATA]

I did not read the article yet.
I was going to, but after seeing this quote from it, I changed my mind.

​

"He also wrote about Kim. He wrote that he thought about Kim every day and that he could “feel her spirit somehow.” There was a disturbing intimacy to his words"

I don´t need to get into the head of PM, I don´t need intimate details. I don´t want to hear about how and what he thinks about Kim Wall.
He has no right to think about her, it enrages me that he does.
It is too soon for me and too close to home.

That is why I think this may be too much for Kim Wall´s relatives as well.

I may be wrong.