GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

[Logical_Inference]

And no 8 is:
Ifølge politiet søgte Peter Madsen på halshugning timer før mødet med Kim Wall. Han så også en video a fen halsoverskaering på en kvinde.

Google translates this as:
According to the police, Peter Madsen was searching for haircuts hours before meeting with Kim Wall. He also saw a video of a neckline on a woman.

I think it should be:
According to the police, Peter Madsen was searching for beheadings hours before meeting with Kim Wall. He also saw a video of a woman’s throat being cut.

Again I'd be grateful if a Danish speaker would confirm.

I'm sure I've seen something in one of the English-language accounts about him searching for haircuts.

Haircuts...lol
Well they did find lumps of hair that was cut off, but I doubt that Google is that clever so they can see what you didnt write.

You are right with your translation.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Very strange translation. I would never have read that as haircut. Not that I know Danish, but some of their words are surprisingly normal. ( :whiteflag:~~ friendly wave to Denmark)

Hals = neck or throat.

Wikipedia on Halshugning: https://da.wikipedia.org/wiki/Halshugning and this translates to Decapitation in the English version.

An editor should have noticed these mistakes! Why on earth would PM have been watching videos about dressmaking for women? Perhaps he should have, it would have been an entirely different trial if he had.

I find the journalists writing today to be poor writing when it comes to spelling and also the way they use slang and dialect in their writing. Its very hard to translate sometimes. In Ekstra-bladets live-blog, there were several examples of that, so if Google cant translate that its understandable.

 

[Moll]

Thanks, LI. I noticed the spelling 'perteringen' was different from what we had before but that's what it says on the website so I thought I'd better stick with it. must be a misprint. Amazing how it can be 'misery' and 'party' according to Google.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Thanks, LI. I noticed the spelling 'perteringen' was different from what we had before but that's what it says on the website so I thought I'd better stick with it. must be a misprint. Amazing how it can be 'misery' and 'party' according to Google.

Yeah, sometimes I think that Google maybe has some kind of filter, that are supposed to change violent words to nonsens. One never knows.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Big defeat to Peter Madsen at a crucial point

To prove his innocence, Peter Madsen, through his defender, Betinna Hald Engmark, has demanded that the Copenhagen Police carry out a series of tests at the submarine. The tests should reinforce his explanation that a defect at one of the submarine valves may have contributed to filling the UC3 Nautilus with toxic carbon dioxide from the engines and making the door impossible to open outside. However, in a ruling on March 12, as BT has been granted access, the Copenhagen City Council has refused to instruct the police to carry out those tests.

https://translate.google.com/transl...r-madsen-paa-et-afgoerende-punkt-i-drabssagen

I re-translated the important part of the article, because of the usual....Google!

 

[ZaZara]

Big defeat to Peter Madsen at a crucial point


https://translate.google.com/transl...r-madsen-paa-et-afgoerende-punkt-i-drabssagen

I re-translated the important part of the article, because of the usual....Google!

Normally speaking these test should have been carried out, but not in this case because .... (same report)

'The probability of any test, if it could be carried out, would be uncertain as a result of the fact that it can not be guaranteed that the circumstances during the test will be identical to the actual facts present at 10-11. August 2017, "the court writes in its statement of reasons.

When PM sank the Nautilus, the engines became so damaged that they no longer work. In order to carry out the tests that PM now want, the engines would have to be repaired first and then there is no guarantee that the engine is in the same condition as on the night that Kim Wall died.

PM does not get whet he wants now is all due to what PM did before!


I believe this is called poetic justice.

 

[Moll]

Big defeat to Peter Madsen at a crucial point


https://translate.google.com/transl...r-madsen-paa-et-afgoerende-punkt-i-drabssagen

I re-translated the important part of the article, because of the usual....Google!

That was good of you, L_I - thanks!

 

[Moll]

Normally speaking these test should have been carried out, but not in this case because .... (same report)



When PM sank the Nautilus, the engines became so damaged that they no longer work. In order to carry out the tests that PM now want, the engines would have to be repaired first and then there is no guarantee that the engine is in the same condition as on the night that Kim Wall died.

PM does not get whet he wants now is all due to what PM did before!


I believe this is called poetic justice.

It is, but I'm afraid his lawyer will be able to use it to say there now exists reasonable doubt as to whether his account is after all possible, we just don't know. But there's a lot of other evidence...

 

[Logical_Inference]

Normally speaking these test should have been carried out, but not in this case because .... (same report)



When PM sank the Nautilus, the engines became so damaged that they no longer work. In order to carry out the tests that PM now want, the engines would have to be repaired first and then there is no guarantee that the engine is in the same condition as on the night that Kim Wall died.

PM does not get whet he wants now is all due to what PM did before!


I believe this is called poetic justice.

The defense-lawyer did also ask for tests after PM's first explaination about the hatch in the head. She wanted the Police to test if it was possible, but after consulting some engineers, they concluded that it wasnt needed with a test, so I guess that the court had this in mind when they rejected the plea for more test of the new explaination.

 

[Logical_Inference]

It is, but I'm afraid his lawyer will be able to use it to say there now exists reasonable doubt as to whether his account is after all possible, we just don't know. But there's a lot of other evidence...

Yeah she probably will use it somehow, as she tried to with the first explaination he came up with. She tried to get him out of jail instead of the prolonged custody, but it didnt work at that time, as we know. They prolonged it anyway, even that she said that they couldnt tell if he was lying without testing his claim.

 

[ZaZara]

It is, but I'm afraid his lawyer will be able to use it to say there now exists reasonable doubt as to whether his account is after all possible, we just don't know. But there's a lot of other evidence...

There may be doubt, but is it reasonable?

Normally, when someone dies from CO2 poisoning in a room or a vehicle, the heating system and the ventilation are investigated by an expert.
Here, the system has been destroyed and the police would have to repair or reconstruct the engine so that it could operate again.
If the engine is operational according to the regulations, no CO2 should occur.
If the police reconstruct the engine so that CO2 is produced, it will still not be clear if that was indeed the case when Kim Wall was on board.

They would only prove that under certain circumstances this engine is capable of producing CO2 ~ but not that these ciurcumstances occurred.

If Madsen had wanted proof of CO2 poisoning, he should have called the police the moment he found Kim unresponsive. Why didn't he?

 

[Shiressleuth]

Normally speaking these test should have been carried out, but not in this case because .... (same report)



When PM sank the Nautilus, the engines became so damaged that they no longer work. In order to carry out the tests that PM now want, the engines would have to be repaired first and then there is no guarantee that the engine is in the same condition as on the night that Kim Wall died.

PM does not get whet he wants now is all due to what PM did before!


I believe this is called poetic justice.

Yes and he had time to sabotage the engines as well. Kim's blood was recovered from the sub and her body would show if she had died from CO poisoning too imo. He seems to have forgotten his initial explanation of the hatch smashing her head, doesn't he?
Oh, and not forgetting version 1 where he said he dropped her off on Refshaloen at 10.30 pm. That's 2 previous versions so far that he has given, so why should this last one (version 3) be believed?

 

[Moll]

There may be doubt, but is it reasonable?

Normally, when someone dies from CO2 poisoning in a room or a vehicle, the heating system and the ventilation are investigated by an expert.
Here, the system has been destroyed and the police would have to repair or reconstruct the engine so that it could operate again.
If the engine is operational according to the regulations, no CO2 should occur.
If the police reconstruct the engine so that CO2 is produced, it will still not be clear if that was indeed the case when Kim Wall was on board.

They would only prove that under certain circumstances this engine is capable of producing CO2 ~ but not that these ciurcumstances occurred.

If Madsen had wanted proof of CO2 poisoning, he should have called the police the moment he found Kim unresponsive. Why didn't he?

I agree. The doubt isn't reasonable, but I am trying to look at it from the defence point of view - is it really a defeat for Madsen, or is it just what they knew perfectly well would happen because he sank the sub? To have the request refused might be usable (perhaps). I would think though that his behaviour, multiple explanations etc will far outweigh this attempt to appear credible.

 

[Shiressleuth]

They have said she died either from her being strangled or having her throat cut haven't they? I think they are able to determine that she died from the blood suddenly being cut off. Hate to think of this and PM needs to just plead guilty to spare Kim's family and friends the trauma of having to go through the trial. MOO.

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Kim_Wall

I thought it may be useful to post the Wikipedia entry on the thread. A lot of references are linked and it includes a timeline.

 

[ZaZara]

I agree. The doubt isn't reasonable, but I am trying to look at it from the defence point of view - is it really a defeat for Madsen, or is it just what they knew perfectly well would happen because he sank the sub? To have the request refused might be usable (perhaps). I would think though that his behaviour, multiple explanations etc will far outweigh this attempt to appear credible.

IMHO the defence lawyer is obliged to make this request because it is obviously essential to the defendant. If she failed to do that, this would be a case of bad representation and the trial would no longer be fair. Equally, if the police refuses to investigate, they are obliged to give a motivation for this.

It is a ritual dance and they all play their part.


What I would like to know is how he got rid of the alleged CO2. It is only slightly lighter than air. No smell at all. Goes upwards slowly. How long would that take? Given the size and form of the submarine, wouldn't it remain stuck under the ceiling? How could Madsen know the air was clear?

Questions, questions...

 

[Shiressleuth]

https://www.abe.iastate.edu/extension-and-outreach/carbon-monoxide-poisoning-ventilation-aen-209/

Carbon monoxide is heavier than air so he could not have got rid of it without scuttling the sub. Explains why he sank the sub.

He should have had CO detectors on the boat I would have thought.

 

[Shiressleuth]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/a...deadly-gas-kills-minutes-turns-brain-red.html

Here's a link that says CO can kill in minutes and turns the brain red so I think the autopsy would have revealed this.

I don't think PM has a chance of being believed.

Eta. It is CO (carbon monoxide) not CO2 (carbon dioxide) I think.

If it was CO2, then she would have suffocated thru lack of oxygen in the air rather than being poisoned by CO (engine exhaust gases). What exactly is he claiming as that may be important?

 

[SATA]

IMHO the defence lawyer is obliged to make this request because it is obviously essential to the defendant. If she failed to do that, this would be a case of bad representation and the trial would no longer be fair. Equally, if the police refuses to investigate, they are obliged to give a motivation for this.

It is a ritual dance and they all play their part.


What I would like to know is how he got rid of the alleged CO2. It is only slightly lighter than air. No smell at all. Goes upwards slowly. How long would that take? Given the size and form of the submarine, wouldn't it remain stuck under the ceiling? How could Madsen know the air was clear?

Questions, questions...

It is impossible to test, because the engines are destroyed. They cannot re-create the state of the old engines, so a test will be useless.

I think, given his multiple changes of stories, paired with the likely conclusion of forensics re cause of death, this will not have much, if any, impact on a coming verdict.

PM and lawyer are just grasping at straws.

 

[ZaZara]

Aaaw! painful ... it is CO of course and not CO2. How did that happen?


BTW CO is slightly lighter than air:

Wikipedia
Carbon monoxide has a molar mass of 28.0, which, according to the ideal gas law, makes it slightly less dense than air, whose average molar mass is 28.8

Don't know how that would work out in a submarine though.