GUILTY Denmark - Kim Wall, 30, Copenhagen, 10 Aug 2017

[SATA]

Just bumping this as a reminder about the medical evidence.

Thanks, and a reminder that PM is lying.

It is arduous to listen to all his lies and experts refuting them.

I hope he will get the severest sentence in the book, which means he will be locked up for the remainder of his life.

And then SILENCE - no more BS from Peter Madsen.
I hope the press will ignore him from the day of the sentence.

 

[Moll]

A succinct account of the day from the Copenhagen Post:
http://cphpost.dk/news/peter-madsen...e-courtroom-heats-up-over-exhaust-claims.html

 

[Shiressleuth]

Am bumping these posts from JJ regarding the medical examiner's testimony as a recap.

Huge thanks to those who have translated in this fascinating case.
Here are the tweets on the medical examiner’s testimony.

Witness 2: Christina is the medical examiner. We know that parts were found in water: What is the affect? Answer: we have a deal of dismembering cases, but not so many that have been in water so long.

Answer: this means nothing can be said to be 100% true due to dismembering & body parts having been in water so long.

We are going through wounds, one by one. There is a sketch of a torso with about 30 wounds, including 10 in the groin. #PeterMadsen said wounds were to get gas out of the body so it could sink. Medical examiner says no.

Various instruments were used for these wounds. We are trying to determine whether they occurred before or after death. Summary: some were before & some after.

Conclusion: while wounds on other parts of the body were likely after death, those around the groin could have been before. The prosecutor is going through the wounds, picture by picture- but only the court can see them.

Why is it unclear whether the wounds were before death (but not hours after)? Answer: Because death is a process.

https://twitter.com/CaliforniaRobin

We have moved from the torso discovered on 21 aug to the head discovered on 7 oct. There is a sketch with around 24 wounds.

We know that death could have occurred from chocking or beheading. The examiner says we can’t say for sure that the beheading was most likely because the head has laid under water in a plastic bag for nearly 2 months.

Moving onto the left leg where we see a sketch. And now we are looking at the left arm found on 21 Nov. There is also a sketch here.

Both the arm and leg could have been bound.

The marks on the ankles could be from robe? Answer: yes.

We are addressing #petermadsens explanation of death by carbon monoxide poisoning. The examiner says that the lungs had no carbon, but it could have disappeared after being so long in the water.

BUT all body parts do not show any affects of high heat that would have occurred from carbon monoxide poisoning.

Cross by defense of medical examiner: How long does the death process take? Answer: It depends on cause of death. It can’t take an hour. From bloodletting-where the heart stops because of lack of blood up to 10 minutes.

https://twitter.com/CaliforniaRobin

Criminal liability is beyond a reasonable doubt. What is the defense strategy? 1. When the wounds occurred-if they are after death the criminal penalty is much less -if #petermadsen is proved not to be the killer- it is 2-8 years.

Another defense strategy is whether the wounds are of a sexual nature. The defense is discussing whether 2 wounds started at groin. This matters in terms of whether #PeterMadsen has a sexual motive. If not, punishment would be less.

The defense attorney is poking holes in the analysis. Couldn’t some injuries have occurred by being dragged out of the submarine. Answer: that cannot be ruled out.

Could carbon monoxide poisoning be a cause of death. Answer: that can’t be ruled out.

Lunch break.

https://twitter.com/CaliforniaRobin

 

[Shiressleuth]

The fact there were no heat or burn marks on any of Kim' body parts proves he was lying in my mind. The testimony has been that temperature would rise to 100ºC in 4-7 minutes and the ME was very clear there were no signs of that.

 

[Moll]

The fact there were no heat or burn marks on any of Kim' body parts proves he was lying in my mind. The testimony has been that temperature would rise to 100ºC in 4-7 minutes and the ME was very clear there were no signs of that.

Yes - did you look at the CPH Post article above? As far as anything can be funny in this dreadful and unnecessary trial (he could have pleaded guilty and spared the family) of this dreadful crime, I thought it was grimly humorous.

Opening:

[FONT=&quot]For a moment there was a ray of light for Peter Madsen in Courtroom 60 on day eight of the 12-day hearing, when a witness finally backed up one of his stories – there have, after all, been three versions of how Kim Wall died aboard his submarine on August 10.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But then it was extinguished as it transpired that his explanation would have made it hot inside the exhaust-filled sub – very hot indeed.'[/FONT]And so on.

 

[Shiressleuth]

Yes - did you look at the CPH Post article above? As far as anything can be funny in this dreadful and unnecessary trial (he could have pleaded guilty and spared the family) of this dreadful crime, I thought it was grimly humorous.

Opening:

[FONT=&quot]For a moment there was a ray of light for Peter Madsen in Courtroom 60 on day eight of the 12-day hearing, when a witness finally backed up one of his stories – there have, after all, been three versions of how Kim Wall died aboard his submarine on August 10.[/FONT][FONT=&quot]But then it was extinguished as it transpired that his explanation would have made it hot inside the exhaust-filled sub – very hot indeed.'[/FONT]And so on.

I agree with you. "Courtroom heats up over exhaust claims", "Plausible but parching" and "saw him with a saw" made me wince but it helps them to get the points across.

 

[Moll]

Only excusable in the manner of the black humour of war zones, really.

 

[ZaZara]

Loved the befitting description of Ditte Dyreborg as Madsen's Nemesis:

Perhaps in recognition of his nemesis, Madsen was frequently annoyed during her testimony, frantically scribbling notes for his lawyer to use in her cross-examination.

Thanks everyone for the many updates! I wasn't able to follow the case today and it is a great service to catch up so easily.


He's going down.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Thanks all, for the reporting, and the good comments here.

Now we have at least one argument that PM cant dismiss, and thats the heat-issue. Almost everything else has he tried to wash away in a series of technical explainations as he was the top-expert of all experts. It was a pain to read how the defense-lawyer questioned the submarine expert like she was some kind of layman (like PM) that didnt know anything. Without respecting her educational and working background at all.

I also think that with the women that now has stated that PM invited them to a trip in the sub shortly before the trip with KW, shows that he just wanted to do this now, no matter on who. I have a hunch that Deidre was the last chance for him to do it, because he invited her before he cancelled the trip to Bornholm, so he must have known that he wasnt going to Bordholm ( its a long way to go there - it takes the ferry 8 hours from sealand to Bornholm).
Or maybe he wanted to make a kind of getaway with Deidre, either that or she should be the victim if he couldnt find anybody else.

I do really hope that with all the changes in PM's statements the judges wont consider anything of what he says as true. He really deserves that.
The defense didnt have any witnesses (so far) that could support PM's statement about how it all went on. Its just his explaination, and if that is disregarded, then the defense have nothing.

 

[Moll]

Sky News has this headline for yesterday's proceedings, as if it was news that PM sank the sub intentionally:
https://news.sky.com/story/murder-suspect-peter-madsen-sank-submarine-intentionally-11315389
I think they're losing the plot a bit. PM admitted he sank the sub long ago, as part of his (so he claimed) suicidal reaction to the 'accident' on board. His defence counsel said it again on 8 March. What Ditte Dyreborg was saying was that as soon as she saw the open valves, when she examined the sub in August, she knew it could have been sunk deliberately. All doubt on that score has long since gone.
Still, with all these PM stories floating around as each previous one became untenable, it's not surprising people get confused.

 

[Logical_Inference]

ok, Now the defense-lawyer have asked the court to call in a new witness from police national cyber crime center.
Is she now going to try to prove that all the videos was put on to PM's harddisk's and phone by some hackers??
She is really desperate!

the defence asked to be allowed to call a witness from the police's national center for cyber crime, but it is still unclear whether the court gives permission.

https://ekstrabladet.dk/112/live-nu-kommer-de-sidste-vidner/7102804

 

[Moll]

ok, Now the defense-lawyer have asked the court to call in a new witness from police national cyber crime center.
Is she now going to try to prove that all the videos was put on to PM's harddisk's and phone by some hackers??
She is really desperate!



https://ekstrabladet.dk/112/live-nu-kommer-de-sidste-vidner/7102804

Again a late request from the defence - they must have had the videos etc disclosed to them before the trial, surely? As you say it's desperate.

 

[Logical_Inference]

The first witness is brought into the hall and takes place in the middle of the room. It is woman who wants a ban of her name, but the conditions are not met. The woman as an acquaintance to Peter Madsen

It is the prosecutors's witness, so he starts questioning.
- I have known PM for 5-6 years. I met him at a party, says the witness.

"Is it possible that you have met Peter Madsen at a party in Kinky Salon?" Asks the prosecutor
- Yes
- Can you tell what Kinky Salon is?
"It's a party with outfit, giggles and fun," the witness said
- Is it a sex club?
- I do not want to say that. You can have sex, says the witness

The witness tells that she meets Peter Madsen for a party with Kinky Salon. The two get a friendship that never develops sexually.
"We are talking primarily about the submarine," said the witness, but never had boarded Nautilus.
The witness tells that the two had only occasional contact.
In May 2017, the two are talking about going out with the submarine.
"I can take a trip with some children I know, and then we could make a picnic," says the witness, saying that the plan changes in June and July.

- Suddenly he writes to me that I am the only one that is going to be on the submarine. Because we'll just see if I like it first, the witness says.

In a SMS text, Peter Madsen writes to the witness that he is sitting in the tropics at blue water thinking of her and wishing that he had his submarine with him. Peter Madsen also writes to blow the refshale island into the air, like Captain Nemo, when he loses Nautilus.
"Since I have become a criminal, I can still kidnap you, your man and children," Peter Madsen writes.

The witness tells her she thought it was a strange sms, but that she chose to laugh at it.

Twice in June, Peter Madsen again contacts the witness. He calls her and has 'high energy', says the witness
- He tells about a trip to Spain that sounds quite crazy. He told him he was invited to build a submarine and that he had been picked up at the airport by three men, one was bodyguard and the other was the wealthy guy, and then it turned out that it was reversed. It sounded like a bad movie, says the witness.

The witness tells us that it started with the witness going out on the submarine along with a lot of others, but it turns out that she suddenly only can go out alone.
"I'm talking to my boyfriend about it and we agree that it's strange and that I have to say no," said the witness.

The witness tells that on August 8 she is contacted by Peter Madsen again. He writes a text message:
'Hi. We can sail a nautilus tour this weekend if you're on? ', Peter Madsen writes and sends a video of Nautilus at the same time.
The witness rejects because she is traveling.

- Did you tell the police that he seemed more insistent at last?
- Yes, I think so. The contact was more often suddenly, says the witness, who also seems that Peter Madsen flirted a lot.

- Would you have said yes if you were at home?
- No, I had decided that I would not. I thought he seemed a little manic, says the witness

Thus the prosecutor has finished his hearing and the defense takes over.
"You are aware that the submarine could not sail in 2017, right ?" Asks the defense attorney
"I know it was on land, but not that it did not work," said the witness.

- It's in spring 2017 when it can sail again, and there's contact between you and Peter about a submarine trip. Before then how often have you talked about a submarine trip? "Asks the defense attorney
- It has been sporadic. But we have talked about it before. It was exciting, but the devil knows a man who has built a submarine, says the witness.

Why did not you go out and see the submarine?
- It did not fit in my schedule. Either I went out or then I was at work, says the witness.

- The prosecutor ran over Peter's reply to the first text message with the blue water. Peter really just answers 'haha' back. And then Peter calls some time after. The first time you speak, do you talk about Spain the second time - what do you talk about there?
"I simply can not remember that," said the witness.

The defense attorney now asks the witness for an agreement with Peter Madsen that the witness should take some pictures of the submarine.
It confirms the witness.

- Did you tell Peter that you would like to go on the submarine, but only with your boyfriend?
"No, I have not," said the witness
- Did you say you did not want to go to the submarine with him?
"No, I have not," said the witness.
- So you didnt asked him not to ask anymore, asks the defense attorney
"No," said the witness

- How do you know Peter?, Asks the defense attorney
- I experience him as very sex-oriented. He was always talking about that. And I see him as a special person, says the witness.
Did you experience him as violent?
"Never says the witness.

Thus, the defense has no more questions, but the prosecutor has one last.
- Have you talked to Peter about the text in June, where he mentions something about becoming a criminal?
"No, we never discussed that," said the witness.

The hearing the witness has finished, she leaves the stand.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Now there are no more witnesses for today, but the prosecutor takes the floor.

"We have heard 36 witnesses, but we are missing the 37th witness, which did not show up in court. And we must decide on the status of the witness, and if we are to hear the testimony of the witness, the prosecutor says.

In addition, the prosecutor mention another witness from the police's national cyber crime center, which the defense wants to call in the case.
This does the prosecutor think is not necessary.

It makes the defender take the floor. She does not believe that the prosecutor submits her wish for a technical witness from the police correctly.
"I need a summary from the prosecutor about what he wants to provide of documentation, and then I have repeatedly said that I want the technical witness to tell what findings have been made on computers and hard drives," says the defender.
"I was told that I should clarify what I wanted to hear so they could find the testimony, and now I hear that the prosecutor is rejecting it and not wanting the witness to testify. I simply do not understand, says the defender

The defender also says that on 28 March she sent a number of questions that have not yet been answered correctly.
- It is important that there is this witness here and tells what it really means, what they have found and what they have written in the reports about the findings, says the defense attorney
"I do not agree with the prosecutor," said the defense attorney

The judge speaks about the witness that is missing from the trial. This is Peter Madsen's ex-wife who has given a medical certificate to the court in connection with the absence.
"I expect to be interrupted later in the hearing with a statement of a status on the witness," said the judge, explaining that it is uncertain whether the witness actually comes.
In relation to the testimony of the police's national cyber crime center, the judge states that the court will only hear the prosecution's documentation and then decide on the defense's request for a witness to review the documentation.

The prosecutor takes the word again. He would like to emphasize that he strongly disagrees with the defender of the technical witness.
It causes the judge to interrupt and say she does not want to have that discussion now.

 

[Logical_Inference]

The prosecutor therefore begins with his documentation instead. He starts with some search reports in the case.

The police are conducting a search on August 11 in Peter Madsen's laboratory. It takes place with Peter Madsen's ex-wife. She provides, among other things, for the police Peter Madsen's laptop.

They are conducting a subsequent search on 31 August, and they search the hangers' first floor, again while Peter Madsen's ex-wife is present.

'The first room is furnished as an office, and in the back room there were two cushions next to each other with duvets and pillows', the report says from the search of the first floor, which the prosecutor reads.
Peter Madsen's ex-wife tells the police that this is where they usually sleep.

The prosecutor reads the search reports. The police confiscate a number of hard drives and computers. Both portable and stationary.
In addition, a camcorder, usb connector and gopro cameras were found.

The prosecutor now shows pictures of the two rooms in the hangar's first floor. These are the rooms that the police have searched.

Now the prosecutor comes to the documentation of what is found on the electronic media - ie. hard drives, laptops and so on
On a Lenovo branded laptop we found 41 images that are relevant to the case. They show graphically animated pictures of girls that are being hanged.
There are hits on the words behead, hanging, torture, staffing and impaling on the computer.

Additionally, we found files on the computer with names related to throat, hanging and torture

There is also internet history that deals with the same themes.

The prosecutor is now coming back to the 41 pictures showing animations of women who are being hanged or killed in another way.
'If the images are deleted, they will still last', says the report.
In addition, it is found that there are no movies or documents that are of interest to the case on this laptop.

Police technicians have made a spreadsheet that contains a system of all the files, pictures, etc., which are found interesting in the case.

The police also find that the computer was last used July 21, 2017, and that the user has the name UC3 Nautilus.
The password was last modified January 25, 2017.

Police National Center for Cyber Crime has analyzed hard disks and computers confiscated in this case.
On a hard disk they also find movies that the technicians can observe have been accessed via the Lenovo computer. These are videos with the same topics as previously mentioned.

The prosecutor mention another finding done on one of the hard disks. Here we have found 146 pictures showing motives of hanged women.
There are also 19 movie sequences that contain animations of killing women and men, as well as live images of killing women and men

A subfolder contains 55 films containing pornographic material.
In another folder you will find two videos that show real decapitation of women. In addition, you will also find videos of women who are burned alive.

In addition, you will find a number of videos that are homemade porn.
In addition, the police finds seven texts that contain stories of impalement and torture of women.

The police have used an analysis program to show the folder structure of the various electronic confiscations.
We can see how the folders with the names Behead, Stab, etc. are added as subfolders.

The prosecutor tells that police technicians first review the material and then pass it on to police case-workers who have seen it all through

The prosecutor says that, among other things, he finds a homemade porn movie with Peter Madsen, who has sex with a dark woman. Peter Madsen calls himself the captain on the recordings and even has a camera stuck on his head.

The prosecutor is now referring to some files seen in April 2017, which also shows killing women.
In addition, there are some older comics seen in 2015, where six women and men are hanging.
'In the series, one of the men gets erection of seeing the hanging of the others. One of the women is also seem to be sexually excited by the hanging ', the prosecutor reads from police reports.

The prosecutor now mention a series of animation films that have also been found in connection with the case. It is a very long strip that relates to movies showing nude women executed in different ways.
Some are hanged, the second piece or the beheaded. In addition, there are also sequences where the executioners are dressed as Nazis.

Jakob Buch-Jepsen also tells about the movies that show real killing. There is, among other things, a film of a woman who is first tortured and then gets her throat cut.

In addition, a film has been found that shows the burning of a living woman in a South American country. The woman is burned in the middle of a crowd of people. She's barely alive, but then fire is put on her again.
In addition, there is a movie of a Mexican woman who is being interrogated in handcuffs and her head is finally chopped off with a machete.
According to the prosecutor, it is a film that has been accessed and seen in 2017.
As mentioned earlier, some porn movies have been found that are not interested in the matter, explains the prosecutor.
There is also found a krimi tale about poison killings.

 

[Logical_Inference]

The defense-lawyer now break in and want to have determined that the police have only downloaded the things that are relevant to the case from the confiscated computers and hard disks.
The prosecutor does not dispute that.

- The NC3 (National Center for Cyber Crime) has had all the hard drives, and so they have chosen the material they could use as they have copied onto another hard drive and it has been sent to the police. I think the court should know, says the defense attorney.
"But I also think that I have clearly said that," the prosecutor said.

The prosecutor now shows some of the images confiscated in the case. These are the pictures of hanged women. In addition, there are pictures from the animation films found in the case.

The prosecutor would now like to document one of the texts found in the case dealing with the impalement of women.
The text is about a woman thinking about how it may be to 'feel the pleasure of being impaled and ending her life'.

The text contains some stronger words that the prosecutor is happy about reading to the court.
Sorry, but I have to read it out loud, says Jakob Buch-Jepsen, when he reaches words like pussy and anus.
In the text, it seems that the woman wants to be impaled and decapitated and that she is excited about it.
"Are you ready now?" Asks the boyfriend. "Yes, she replied," says the text, which also describes how the decapitation is going slowly and the woman suffors loudly.
The impalement is also described very graphically.

Thus the prosecutor has finished documenting the texts found in the case. It gives the judge to decide that we are now holding a short morning break.

- Then a text has been taken from 'hostage hangs', reading the prosecutor.
Further to the texts, the seven texts about impalement of women. The prosecutor believes it is important that the court get an insight into the content. He reads extracts of the translations.
I do not report it all here. The content is violent.
xxxxxxxxxx - The prosecutor reads. The content is detailed. Especially the texts about the impalement of women's abdomen.

The prosecutor has now reached the last English text, which is called something like a 'school meal'. It takes place at a high school where all women must arrive naked.
A school inspector stands for the impalement in this text. There are also rapes and torture of women.

Thus the prosecutor has finished documenting the texts found in the case.

The Judge decide that we are now having a short morning break.

 

[Moll]

Anybody working on this case must need therapy afterwards, it's bad enough reading it. Thanks, L_I, for doing the horrid job of posting it for us, though.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Anybody working on this case must need therapy afterwards, it's bad enough reading it. Thanks, L_I, for doing the horrid job of posting it for us, though.

Yeah its so ugly and creepy. I think of the poor reporter in the courtroom. She has to hear the words too.
It is sooo disgusting.

 

[Logical_Inference]

Typical! I am being interrupted now, so I have to stop the translation for now. Hopefully it will only be for a few hours and then I can try to pick it up later.

 

[Moll]

Sky News - read from bottom up. More of the same after the break, I'm afraid.
@julieastridthom7m

"I should warn you about their character," the prosecutor says as he presents images to members of the court, not to the press @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall #PeterMadsen

@julieastridthom12m

The prosecutor underlines, that the Google-searches are active searches made by the user @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall#PeterMadsen

@julieastridthom14m

Google-searches from 2011 found by police on a harddisk from Madsen's space lab: 'beheadings real', 'hanging real', 'stabby stabby', 'real rape', 'suicide videos' and more @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial#KimWall #PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom15m

On a harddisk, police found 91 images in total showing corpses and cut off bodyparts among other things, prosecutor tells the court @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial #KimWall #PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom20m

Police found graphic, violent content (several videos, texts and images) on Madsen's computers and harddrives, dating back as much as 8 years, the court learns @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial#KimWall #PeterMadsen

@julieastridthom28m

Prosecutor is correcting the conclusion mentioned before the break about the 90 videos found by police: "90 films were found in total. Here of, 26 relating to killings of women or men" @SkyNews#SubmarineTrial #KimWall #PeterMadsen


@julieastridthom42m

The court goes on a 10 minute break @SkyNews #SubmarineTrial#KimWall #PeterMadsen