Details Emerge: Casey/Cindy Fight - Part 3

[kssgdby]

I have often wondered if the fight was more than about the money, we all know this had gone on for years and Cindy knew that Casey had taken the money from her grandfather's account. My thought is what if Cindy in preparing for the trip with Caylee went to the trunk to put stuff in, diaper bag, blanket, etc for the trip and Caylee had a reaction thinking she was going to put her in there and Cindy started questioning Caylee. I know that she could not have spoken clearly about it but could have indicated enough to Cindy to send her off the deep end.

 

[Openmyeyes]

From the very beginning I believed the fight was the point that pushed KC over the edge. The neighbor reported that the fight was loud enough for him to hear. Did the fight go into the drive way? Did it go out to the car? Was it in the backyard? Was it in the garage? How could the neighbors hear it with their air conditioning running (and it would have been going in florida in mid June)? All these questions bothered me and I decided to become a lookie loo and go by the house. I was surprised at how close the garage side was to the neighbors house. If the neighbors were in their front room and the fight had started in the garage and worked its way into the driveway by KC's vehicle, it would be quite easy for them to hear exactly that something was going on. If the neighbors across the street were sitting in a screened in porch area, they too could have heard the commotion.

I'm thinking that SP pushed CA's explosion button by telling her she was done with KC and was going to press charges for looting her Grandfathers nursing home account. I bet SP used terms like "I'm going to make KC responsible, since you can't", which made CA fume all the way home. Caylee may have sensed anger, since she was probably exposed to alot of it, and acted out. The idea that Caylee may have reacted to CA putting stuff in the trunk is a good one, and one I hadn't thought of. I have always felt that Caylee was in the middle of CA and KC during that fathers day fight and that was how CA allowed Caylee to go with KC that night, if she did.

I can't wait to hear more info on that fight during the trial.

 

[cloud9]

According to Jesse Grund, Lee Anthony told him that Cindy and Casey had a huge fight on the night of June 15th, 2008 and that Cindy literally put her hands around Casey's neck and tried to choke her.

That is all we have about this "fight." I think something had to have happened the night of the 15th, but we only have Jesse's word? Not to say that I don't believe Jesse, but it would have been nice to get some confirmation from Lee?

Also, IIRC a few neighbors said they heard ICA and CA fighting, though not positive it was the same time.

 

[Solace]

From the very beginning I believed the fight was the point that pushed KC over the edge. The neighbor reported that the fight was loud enough for him to hear. Did the fight go into the drive way? Did it go out to the car? Was it in the backyard? Was it in the garage? How could the neighbors hear it with their air conditioning running (and it would have been going in florida in mid June)? All these questions bothered me and I decided to become a lookie loo and go by the house. I was surprised at how close the garage side was to the neighbors house. If the neighbors were in their front room and the fight had started in the garage and worked its way into the driveway by KC's vehicle, it would be quite easy for them to hear exactly that something was going on. If the neighbors across the street were sitting in a screened in porch area, they too could have heard the commotion.

I'm thinking that SP pushed CA's explosion button by telling her she was done with KC and was going to press charges for looting her Grandfathers nursing home account. I bet SP used terms like "I'm going to make KC responsible, since you can't", which made CA fume all the way home. Caylee may have sensed anger, since she was probably exposed to alot of it, and acted out. The idea that Caylee may have reacted to CA putting stuff in the trunk is a good one, and one I hadn't thought of. I have always felt that Caylee was in the middle of CA and KC during that fathers day fight and that was how CA allowed Caylee to go with KC that night, if she did.

I can't wait to hear more info on that fight during the trial.

Does anyone know the name of the neighbor who heard it. I know there is a neighbor who said he saw KC and Cindy fighting several times in front of the house with Cindy sayng nothing and KC her usual.

But I thought I read somewhere that the neighbor could not be sure what weekend heard the fight in question. Am I wrong? Anyone? Thanks.

 

[krisskross]

Does anyone know the name of the neighbor who heard it. I know there is a neighbor who said he saw KC and Cindy fighting several times in front of the house with Cindy sayng nothing and KC her usual.

But I thought I read somewhere that the neighbor could not be sure what weekend heard the fight in question. Am I wrong? Anyone? Thanks.

The only neighbour .......i.e. listed witness, I am aware of is Gene Couty. He tells of witnessing two fights between Cindy and Casey, that must have spilled out on to the front yard. IIRC he thinks these rows ocurred in April and a month before Caylee was reported missing.

 

[cherishtoo]

Does anyone know the name of the neighbor who heard it. I know there is a neighbor who said he saw KC and Cindy fighting several times in front of the house with Cindy sayng nothing and KC her usual.

But I thought I read somewhere that the neighbor could not be sure what weekend heard the fight in question. Am I wrong? Anyone? Thanks.

I think you mean Jean Couty.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5688720/Casey-Anthony-Neighbor-Jean-Couty-transcript

 

[Beatrice]

This is just my opinion.....

Casey did not want to have the baby. Cindy talked her into it by promising her that she would give her all she needed to raise Caylee. That Casey would not have to work & all her needs would be provided for.

Of course, as time passed this agreement fell apart.
As Caylee grew older & began to talk.....Things got stressful for Casey.

Because of Cindy's confusion over June 9th and June 15th.....I think there was a full-out argument on June 9th where Cindy gave Casey an ultimatum.
Cindy & George were going on vacation & they expected Casey to make an effort to bond with Caylee. If not, they would adopt Caylee and Casey would be out on her own.

They pulled the rug from under her. A sociopathic, delusuional, addicted daughter.

Remember Casey's "ME, TOO!" Was she also planning a vacation?
Cindy & George, Amy & Ricardo, and Tony...all on vacation.

Where was Casey on Father's Day? Did she know that her embezzlement of money was to come to the forefront? Cindy claims she was in the pool with Casey....No....It was Caylee & Casey felt it was too cold. (A lie?) Wouldn't that be the time to discusss the embezzlement of the grandparent's money?

 

[Solace]

I think you mean Jean Couty.

http://www.docstoc.com/docs/5688720/Casey-Anthony-Neighbor-Jean-Couty-transcript

Thanks so much Cheristoo. So then, this is NOT the neighbor who reported the fight on the 15th - do we know who that is. I know that Jesse said Lee told him about the fight.

I wonder if Lee would tell the truth on the stand about telling this to Jesse. He seems to have "mellowed" a lot since the Morgan deposition. Most times when someone is 'away' from the situation, they start to see it in a different light and I am wondering if Lee is doing just that. I realize he loves his sister, and I don't want to go OT. I am just thinking this would be an excellent question for Lee on the stand.

 

[Solace]

The only neighbour .......i.e. listed witness, I am aware of is Gene Couty. He tells of witnessing two fights between Cindy and Casey, that must have spilled out on to the front yard. IIRC he thinks these rows ocurred in April and a month before Caylee was reported missing.

Thanks Kris.

 

[Quiche]

Happy Father's Day, George.

I really think the holiday was the tipping point-- I believe Cindy was humiliated by KC for the last time and laid down the law: she was going to go for custody and KC needed to move out, additionally, if KC didn't move out, Cindy would file a police report about the thefts.

I really believe this was a moment that KC was waiting for, knew it would come, and planned what she'd do about it. I don't think Caylee stood a chance. jmo

:furious:

 

[angeldust]

See I just cant shwallow all this nonsense that kc didnt want the baby and cindy MADE her keep it. First of all, if kc didnt want the baby then she could have took care of that and no one even would have known she was pregnant, also cindy didnt find out, whether she choose to ignore it or not, that St Mary the Virgin was pregnant for 7 months, far too late to be doing anything about it aaaand we only have kc friends word for that and kc couldnt tell the truth if it slapped her in the face so no Im not buying it x sorry

 

[Beatrice]

Casey was 17 years old......Cindy promised her lots of "stuff"....
Cute clothes for the baby, a room to live in,....IMO Cindy knew all along she would take Caylee and it would cement her relationship with George.

 

[Beatrice]

See I just cant shwallow all this nonsense that kc didnt want the baby and cindy MADE her keep it. First of all, if kc didnt want the baby then she could have took care of that and no one even would have known she was pregnant, also cindy didnt find out, whether she choose to ignore it or not, that St Mary the Virgin was pregnant for 7 months, far too late to be doing anything about it aaaand we only have kc friends word for that and kc couldnt tell the truth if it slapped her in the face so no Im not buying it x sorry

Who held Caylee right after her birth?

 

[Solace]

Casey was 17 years old......Cindy promised her lots of "stuff"....
Cute clothes for the baby, a room to live in,....IMO Cindy knew all along she would take Caylee and it would cement her relationship with George.

She wasn't 17; I think she was 20, anyone?

 

[angeldust]

beatrice it doesnt matter who held the baby first if kc had a bit of a time of it then they would pass the baby to her mum my hubby and mum didnt make it in time to our first daughters birth I was out the game and my mum had the baby to be honest it didnt bother me one little bit and I as an only child have one of the most controlling critical mums you could ever come across I just choose to ignore her when she starts, too much is being made of this imo

Cindy didnt even have to know she was pregnant kc wanted this baby or she would have done the deed and no one would have known anything about it. Cindy didnt force kc to keep any baby kc made sure of that by keeping it "secret" for 7 months

kc is no shrinking violet she s a murderer of her own baby

I just dont believe a word, not one, that comes from kc s mouth x sorry

I also dont believe anything cindy says either I know she hasnt helped matters to say the least

 

[ynotdivein]

Casey was born 3/19/86, so she was 19 when Caylee was born (08/09/05).

As for Cindy/Casey fighting & the neighbors being able to hear it, I thought I remembered that Brittany Schreiber also reported something about this in her 2008 LE interview, but when I checked the transcript there were many pages that were blank, and the information was not in the pages that I was able to see...

(PS: Thread topic = Casey/Cindy Fight.)

 

[ynotdivein]

Again: This thread is to discuss the fight that Cindy and KC allegedly had on the night of June 15.

Please use the Search function to find existing threads about the wedding, the family's psychology, and other non-fight-related topics.

 

[Tulessa]

See I just cant shwallow all this nonsense that kc didnt want the baby and cindy MADE her keep it. First of all, if kc didnt want the baby then she could have took care of that and no one even would have known she was pregnant, also cindy didnt find out, whether she choose to ignore it or not, that St Mary the Virgin was pregnant for 7 months, far too late to be doing anything about it aaaand we only have kc friends word for that and kc couldnt tell the truth if it slapped her in the face so no Im not buying it x sorry

Keep in mind who we are talking about here. ICA loved money too GOOD to waste it on an abortion. After all, how was she going to pay her cell phone bill if she paid for the abortion? ICA DID want to let he friend adopt the baby and that's when CA put her foot down. What was the man's name who ICA borrowed the shovel from? He witnessed those fights also IIRC.

 

[lowens1975]

See I just cant shwallow all this nonsense that kc didnt want the baby and cindy MADE her keep it. First of all, if kc didnt want the baby then she could have took care of that and no one even would have known she was pregnant, also cindy didnt find out, whether she choose to ignore it or not, that St Mary the Virgin was pregnant for 7 months, far too late to be doing anything about it aaaand we only have kc friends word for that and kc couldnt tell the truth if it slapped her in the face so no Im not buying it x sorry

She may have not wanted the baby but didn't have money or means to do anything about it. Casey was 18, right? I'm not 100% sure about that, but if she was, then that would mean that CA's insurance at work would no longer allow CA to carry Casey. You know ICA, she probably thought she could fool her parents long enough to give birth and give the child up for adoption. By all accounts, she only had to fool them for a couple of more months.

She could have found out about her own pregnancy too late to terminate it.

Kiomarie was right on the money when she told LE that she thought they ought to the check the woods at the back of the school. Unless she and ICA had a bad falling out, she wouldn't have any reason to lie to LE about the conversation she said she had with ICA about adopting Caylee.

So far, nothing has been released that would discredit Kiomarie, on the other hand, you could fill up a blank copy of 'War and Peace' with ICA's lies.

And...to keep it on topic..the struggle of CA trying to keep ICA focused on being a mother instead of growing up to be a shot girl at Fusion caused friction, and that in turn kept them going at each other over Caylee.

 

[LolaMoon08]

Everyone needs to remember that Casey actually had a job before Caylee was born so she could have afforded to get an abortion if she wanted to. She was an adult. I do not think she was forced by Cindy, or anyone else, to have Caylee.

Also, Casey didn't need her parents permission to give Caylee up for adoption if that is what she wanted to do. When it comes to adoption, Cindy and George would have no rights that I know of to stop Casey from putting Caylee up for adoption.

Again, something that had been brewing exploded on June 15th, 2008. I don't know if it is how Casey planned it... or even if that was the moment she was going to carry out her plans. I will say this... Caylee's days were numbered no matter how it happened... why it happened... and when it happened. If it didn't happen on June 15/16th... it would have happened eventually.

MOO