Devil's Advocate

[Tricia]

...Occam's Razor will prevail in this case, MOO

Yes Bobby. Occam's Razor never fails.

 

[curiositycat]

Curiosity: Wow glad you are still with us. Sounds like you lived through a real nightmare. You stated "The reason this site has seen so many newbies is that it is one of the most fascinating and unbelievable cases I have ever seen in my lifetime."

This case is nothing, the Ramsey case is truly fascinating and unbelievable. That's a real "Who dun It Murder Mystery." Right down to the pineapple" ;-)

Everyone is coming unglued today because the cops didn't give us all what we want, answers. Now all of a sudden everyone one from crooked cops to the owners of a night club are involved. Stick to the clues folks. This is a slam dunk easy case. If the cops thought for one minute this little girl was alive they would be posting some type of drawing of this Zenida. If not, they would be responsible if they had any type of information that they were holding back on. So unless the whole police department is crooked, that's not the case. The investigators already know Caylee is dead. In fact this news conference today only confirmed that you see. They want to see what else Casey is going to come up with now why they take all of the days the need left to build their case until they are forced to charge her or let her go. THERE IS NO ZENIDA FOLKS. NO BABYSITTER. Tests would have already come back on that stain, hair and decomposition found in that car. There is NO rush to find this little girl, because she isn't anywhere to be found, alive. A whole police department is not in on some big conspiracy and Caylee wasn't sold or traded for drugs. Her mentally unstable sociopathic, boarderline personality disorder mother killed her. Follow the evidence, it all points to ONLY one person. CASEY ANTHONY

Nedthan I totally agree with you about what happened in this case.

This is the wiki definition of Devils Advocate a devil's advocate is someone who takes a position, sometimes one he or she disagrees with, for the sake of argument. This process can be used to test the quality of the original argument and identify weaknesses in its structure. I took the opposite positon here but if you have read my posts for the last two weeks I agree with your theory completely.


I wanted to take the devils advocate position. That's what I think the defense may do.:blowkiss:

 

[Nedthan Johns]

Well I think we all look better in angel wings and halos curiosity. Just curious ;-) what happened to your ex?

 

[wedavis]

This is a What if?
What if Casey was involved with some sort of gang or illegal activity. And for some reason the "gang" members took her and Caylee (in her car). Dropped the car off and told her they would keep Caylee until she did whatever they kidnapped her for. She spent the remainder of the days acutually looking for her. Had to act "normal" for the sake of the "gang" telling her not to talk. Finally had to admit to mom and then was arrested. The smell from the car could be from another source that the gang had it for. I am still convinced the Patrick visit in jail was a secret code of sorts.
I don't know guys...I guess I am just trying to put another spin on this in hopes that Caylee is still alive. I cannot imagine how crazy you could be as a mother to smile everyday knowing your daughter is dead. I can't wrap my head around it.

Would gang members be reading her facebook and myspace postings making sure she was acting right online too? Could it be a new style geek gang?

 

[STEADFAST]

The main elements that point to Casey's guilt, her lying and the cadaver dog hits in her parents's yard and her car, don't really lead to a definitive conclusion that she was responsible for Caylee's possible death. Someone else could have killed Caylee, and Casey could be an accomplice after the fact, helping to dispose of the body and cover for the murderer.

 

[alphaville]

HI, I usually lurk. I've been trying to see/figure out this case from both sides and I am completely torn, so I've tried to just stick to the facts and hope something eventually makes sense.

A few things I keep seeing/reading on message boards like this is everyone says that they Casey "appears cold" or "never asks about Caylee." Ok, how much of Casey have we actually seen? How much of her day to day life in jail have we been able to view? Not a whole lot. I'd say maybe .5%. I can't make a judgment based on so little information. People also say in her phone call she says "They just want Caylee back. That is all they are worried about right now is getting Caylee back," As if she is saying "no one cares about me." Well, the rest of that conversation is rarely posted/mentioned. Casey then goes on to say, "And you know what, that is all I care about right now."

I also don't trust LE. It could be VERY possible that the "babysitter" was an illegal immigrant. There are a lot of illegals in FL. A lot in Orlando. Everyone seems so quick to dismiss that. I wonder why we never hear any information other than "she isn't in the phonebook" (basically) from LE about this woman? No sketch, no PSA, nothing.

Another point... people keep saying she lied about working at Universal and the two people she named didn't work there either. I also understand she worked for Kodak AT Universal. I worked for Disney for a year. I tell people I worked for Disney when I mention it. However, if you looked, I wouldn't have been on their books. They probably have zero record of me. I was a contract worker. This is typical. Universal is HUGE. It wouldn't be weird if people they asked didn't know who she was. Unless they were working with her directly.

Anyway, I am not saying it isn't possible she was lying. I am just saying it is possible she wasn't.

 

[curiositycat]

HI, I usually lurk. I've been trying to see/figure out this case from both sides and I am completely torn, so I've tried to just stick to the facts and hope something eventually makes sense.

A few things I keep seeing/reading on message boards like this is everyone says that they Casey "appears cold" or "never asks about Caylee." Ok, how much of Casey have we actually seen? How much of her day to day life in jail have we been able to view? Not a whole lot. I'd say maybe .5%. I can't make a judgment based on so little information. People also say in her phone call she says "They just want Caylee back. That is all they are worried about right now is getting Caylee back," As if she is saying "no one cares about me." Well, the rest of that conversation is rarely posted/mentioned. Casey then goes on to say, "And you know what, that is all I care about right now."

I also don't trust LE. It could be VERY possible that the "babysitter" was an illegal immigrant. There are a lot of illegals in FL. A lot in Orlando. Everyone seems so quick to dismiss that. I wonder why we never hear any information other than "she isn't in the phonebook" (basically) from LE about this woman? No sketch, no PSA, nothing.

Another point... people keep saying she lied about working at Universal and the two people she named didn't work there either. I also understand she worked for Kodak AT Universal. I worked for Disney for a year. I tell people I worked for Disney when I mention it. However, if you looked, I wouldn't have been on their books. They probably have zero record of me. I was a contract worker. This is typical. Universal is HUGE. It wouldn't be weird if people they asked didn't know who she was. Unless they were working with her directly.

Anyway, I am not saying it isn't possible she was lying. I am just saying it is possible she wasn't.

She took the police to Universal. They were with her. Then she looks at the detectives and says "My, Bad. I don't really work here."
If you look you will find a lot of different "threads" you might find what you are looking for there.
Again, welcome to WS's.

 

[bulletgirl2002]

I believe Casey definately knows what happened to Caylee - she is too composed not to. In my mind someone really does have Casey, but it is not without Casey's consent and knowledge. Casey is an evil mean little witch who is getting back at her family by playing this game while at the same time is enjoying her 15 minutes of fame. I think if she knew Calyee was dead, even if she did have something to do with it, she just wouldn't be this composed. Even Susan Smith cried and felt guilt and look what she did. There is of course no babysitter - probably some boyfriend who is enthralled with her. They should let her out of jail and monitor her if they want to find Caylee. I believe the parents are beginning to believe she is dead though.

 

[olive]

Tricia-

Thanks for posting this. There are so many angles that need considered that can sometimes be overshadowed.

I posted in a thread awhile back trying to remind people that LE have just as many corrupt members as the public in general and that we can't take everything they say as the gospel.

Personally, I have severe trust issues. I trust no one. And mostly I distrust those in positions where trust is supposed to be issued automatically (LE, etc.).

With this case in particular, there was something extremely disturbing that I found with LE in Casey's bond hearing. The hearing was for BOND, nothing else, and it seemed to me that LE turned it into some dog and pony show of convicting Casey of murder in the eyes of the public, going on and on about the evidence seized from the vehicle. It would be one thing if Casey was being held on suspicion of homicide- then perhaps that subject would be valid at her bond hearing. But it wasn't valid- Casey was being held basically for lying, and I can't understand how the judge presiding over the courtroom allowed it to transpire into a circus hearing over suspicion of homicide. Two completely different charges. It reminded me of Judge Harry at the Anna Nicole hearing where they were trying to determine where Anna Nicole should be buried. That hearing turned into a paternity hearing. Again, two completely different things! I remember throwing my remote at the TV during that hearing yelling "what the h#%l is going on with the legal climate in this country!". Sure, it was scandelous and great entertainment- but THAT IS NOT WHAT OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS FOR. Everything has turned into the National Enquirer these days- now, including our courtrooms. This drives me bonkers!

If Websleuths functioned like the courtroom in Casey's bond hearing, we'd have all the mods going nuts screaming "OFF-TOPIC" over and over.

What a mess! IMO

 

[cricket]

With this case in particular, there was something extremely disturbing that I found with LE in Casey's bond hearing. The hearing was for BOND, nothing else, and it seemed to me that LE turned it into some dog and pony show of convicting Casey of murder in the eyes of the public, going on and on about the evidence seized from the vehicle. It would be one thing if Casey was being held on suspicion of homicide- then perhaps that subject would be valid at her bond hearing. But it wasn't valid- Casey was being held basically for lying, and I can't understand how the judge presiding over the courtroom allowed it to transpire into a circus hearing over suspicion of homicide. Two completely different charges. It reminded me of Judge Harry at the Anna Nicole hearing where they were trying to determine where Anna Nicole should be buried. That hearing turned into a paternity hearing. Again, two completely different things! I remember throwing my remote at the TV during that hearing yelling "what the h#%l is going on with the legal climate in this country!". Sure, it was scandelous and great entertainment- but THAT IS NOT WHAT OUR LEGAL SYSTEM IS FOR. Everything has turned into the National Enquirer these days- now, including our courtrooms. This drives me bonkers!

That seemed strange to me too. I have mixed feelings about whether she should be out, but it really seems like LE & the judge conspired to make the bond about more than the charges at hand. For comparison, a child died in my city this week and the mother's boyfriend was charged with murder. The mother was charged with felony child neglect for failing to report earlier abuse (by the boyfriend). She was not home when the boyfriend killed the child. Her bond for the felony child neglect charge was $4,000. That's a long way from $500k.

 

[RoseRed]

Tricia you bring up some excellent questions. I remember the Elizabeth Smart case and how so many just knew who did it! No one knew about the ones who actually had taken her.

The video's of her in court, this is not a woman who's baby is missing, she knows exactly where that little one is and is fine with it.

What if Casey knows where Caylee is because she is being hid for some reason. That is the only explanation for Casey's lack of concern. The tough stance and refusing to talk. But Why? Why would she have Caylee in hiding and who would hide her and not be afraid to call LE ?

 

[LI_Mom]

That seemed strange to me too. I have mixed feelings about whether she should be out, but it really seems like LE & the judge conspired to make the bond about more than the charges at hand. For comparison, a child died in my city this week and the mother's boyfriend was charged with murder. The mother was charged with felony child neglect for failing to report earlier abuse (by the boyfriend). She was not home when the boyfriend killed the child. Her bond for the felony child neglect charge was $4,000. That's a long way from $500k.

But in Casey's case.... the charges are child neglect, lying to investigators and interfering with an investigation.

Not to mention her own mother called 911 & mentioned the smell of a dead body in the car Casey had been using.


LE could see right from the start that they were dealing with very unusual circumstances here.... they felt the best way to get her to reveal Caylee's whereabouts was to make sure she stayed in jail.

Right from the get go, LE's releasing of her phone calls seemed geared towards pushing Casey's buttons enough to break her down.


What if LE announced they give up & let her go & announce it's a 'cold case?'

Her family would be besides themselves & might actually beat the crap out of her to solve the case.

 

[cricket]

But in Casey's case.... the charges are child neglect, lying to investigators and interfering with an investigation.

Not to mention her own mother called 911 & mentioned the smell of a dead body in the car Casey had been using.


LE could see right from the start that they were dealing with very unusual circumstances here.... they felt the best way to get her to reveal Caylee's whereabouts was to make sure she stayed in jail.

Right from the get go, LE's releasing of her phone calls seemed geared towards pushing Casey's buttons enough to break her down.


What if LE announced they give up & let her go & announce it's a 'cold case?'

Her family would be besides themselves & might actually beat the crap out of her to solve the case.

I think only the child neglect is a felony and the other two are misdemeanors. I understand why they wanted such a high bond, but it is unusually high for the current charges.

 

[LI_Mom]

I think only the child neglect is a felony and the other two are misdemeanors. I understand why they wanted such a high bond, but it is unusually high for the current charges.

True.

In this case though.... you have child neglect PLUS the smell of decomposition.

I guess when you don't even bother to report your kid is missing for a month... it bothers people a little. lol

 

[pixies]

Caylee's Nanny is an illegal alien who is afraid to come forward. She may be already in Mexico (or any other country) and if she is down there in some remote town, she will never be found.
I believe if the "Nanny" took her, she will be safe.

That is the only other option I could think of that would have Casey being innocent in this.

I personally believe Casey is evil and left her daughter to die. Her family is covering their butts like crazy by lying on TV.

HEY GRANDMA! STOP WORRYING ABOUT THE REPORTERS ON YOUR LAWN AND WORRY ABOUT FINDING YOUR GRAND DAUGHTER! YOUR GRASS WILL GROW BACK BUT YOUR GRAND DAUGHTER WON'T!.

I swear those people are insane. (prior to this!)

 

[Hart]

Exactly! There are very few undisputed facts in this case- at least from the outside looking in! No one here can do more than form opinions based on opinions, speculation and gossip. The truth is something only a few people know- and until it's out there, ANYTHING is possible.

 

[RoseRed]

I think only the child neglect is a felony and the other two are misdemeanors. I understand why they wanted such a high bond, but it is unusually high for the current charges.

Not only is it too high for the charges but she hasn't even been charged as yet. So basically they are just holding her in jail for their own reasons. Really seems illegal to do that. They really should have charged her or let her go.

I am not trying to say she is innocent. Just the way laws should be. Either charge or release. I had never heard of a 33 day law. I always thought it was like 72 hours and if not charged you had to be released. Boy was I incorrect.

 

[Vegas Bride]

Caylee's Nanny is an illegal alien who is afraid to come forward. She may be already in Mexico (or any other country) and if she is down there in some remote town, she will never be found.
I believe if the "Nanny" took her, she will be safe.

If the nanny was real and had an apartment, other people would have been aware of her, would have seen Caylee being dropped off, picked up etc. No one as far as we know has come forward to report seeing Caylee with a nanny. There is a 225,000 reward, imo if someone knew of a neighbor who was watching this little girl they'd be contacting the police.

VB

 

[SouthernMom]

Has anyone reported her being distraught to the point of tears even over her own circumstances of being jailed? I have not heard or seen anything except her taking a strong, bold attitude in video and on audio tape. She seems to show no vunerability for Caylee or herself. She seems to be performing like a real tough cookie, in charge and not about to show any sign of compassion or vunerability.

I saw one video of her crying. The story at this link may have been the occasion.

http://www.cfnews13.com/News/Local/2008/7/23/casey_anthony_remains_in_jail.html

 

[angelwngs]

i saw one video of her crying. The story at this link may have been the occasion.

http://www.cfnews13.com/news/local/2008/7/23/casey_anthony_remains_in_jail.html

ty, sm.