Did Texas CPS do wrong?

[golfmom]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695274455,00.html

He stands by his state's decision and said FLDS members should have realized that Texas doesn't have the cultural history of abiding by polygamy that other states — such as Utah — did back in the 1800s.

...............

When the FLDS moved in, it raised eyebrows and caused local concern, he said.

"I think they were fleeing the heat of what was happening in Arizona and Utah," Hilderbran said, referring to criminal investigations into FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs. Jeffs was recently convicted in Utah of rape as an accomplice for arranging an underage union between a teenage girl and her cousin.

"They should have reviewed our history. ... I am surprised they didn't check it out here. We're tougher on crime and a little no-nonsense."

 

[Floh]

http://deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,695274455,00.html

He stands by his state's decision and said FLDS members should have realized that Texas doesn't have the cultural history of abiding by polygamy that other states — such as Utah — did back in the 1800s.

...............

When the FLDS moved in, it raised eyebrows and caused local concern, he said.

"I think they were fleeing the heat of what was happening in Arizona and Utah," Hilderbran said, referring to criminal investigations into FLDS prophet Warren Jeffs. Jeffs was recently convicted in Utah of rape as an accomplice for arranging an underage union between a teenage girl and her cousin.

"They should have reviewed our history. ... I am surprised they didn't check it out here. We're tougher on crime and a little no-nonsense."

And this, he said:

"The message from Texas is that we're not going to allow older men to sexually assault or commit rape of minors or marry minors here... I think our law enforcement and our agencies are doing right."

:clap: :clap: :clap:

well i'd buy the man a beer! :woohoo:

 

[cheko1]

So wouldn't you call this a hoax call? CPS gets hoax calls. But irregardless, they do have to investigate. Just like they did in your situation. What do you think would have happened if you had passed the being present, having food and etc., but had had a pregnant girl under the age of consent and her "spiritual husband" in your home, what do you think would have happened?

I think they'd of made me do LOTS of explaining &took all the kids as they should have. I never once expected preferential treatment for any reason.
I proved to them without a shadow of a doubt there was NO ABUSE of any kind going on in my home. I had the daycares phone numbers in my phone book. I had receipts I was able to show CPS that I paid daycare so I could work. I had a show box filled with receipts for purchased items in case I ever went back into court for proof where my measly $125.support went on 4 kids. No worries at my place for a "spiritual husband" or wayward boyfriends.

Should they of found abuse of any kind I'd of been in trouble. It sure was a hoax......it was marked as such also / in case it ever happened to another agent on duty at another time. My Ex to this day claims not to know anything about the calls / whatever....CPS came done there job as they should of & I was cleared within hours. I look at it as them doing there job. They never knew me from adam.

CPS has no clue if it is a hoax or not. It is there jobs to check it out. If you have nothing to hide you have nothing to fear!

 

[cheko1]

Yes, I'd term it a hoax call.. I applaud how Cheko1 handled it.

When I was 22 and my child was almost a year old I had someone call CPS on me too. As soon as the CPS worker began asking me questions I knew who'd done it and I asked. The woman said that they couldn't tell who made the call. So I told her who it was and why. I had just moved from a rental residence because of unwanted advances by the caretaker who's wife owned the property. I'd moved next door into a home with married friends of mine, temporarily because in three weeks I'd be going back to work and moving to another state. It just so happens that his stepdaughter was there with me and told the CPS worker that she'd witnessed his overtures and my reaction. What's more she'd been present when he'd made a secretive call that morning and now she knew who it'd been to.

The CPS worker was very nice but professional and explained that they had to check out each and every report and she was relieved to find that there was no basis for the call, my child was healthy, safe and she left. It was a hoax and the hoaxster paid. The stepdaughter told her mother and that was the end of that. Yes, it rankles me to this date that he made the call, it was embarassing, but I understand that she was doing her job and that her job was checking the safety of the child involved, my child.

molly,
I also should add I asked CPS who called & was given the same, couldn't tell me. I gave him a list of all my Ex's families last names. I know it had to be them! Your right it is VERY EMBARASSING! But as with you I had nothing to hide & if its unfounded they are big enough to admit it.

 

[mollymalone]

molly,
I also should add I asked CPS who called & was given the same, couldn't tell me. I gave him a list of all my Ex's families last names. I know it had to be them! Your right it is VERY EMBARASSING! But as with you I had nothing to hide & if its unfounded they are big enough to admit it.

In most cases they are, there are always those cases where someone has screwed up and tries to cover up their ineptness. But for the most part, yes they are and they do. I'd advise anyone, male or female in a divorce/custody issue to keep meticulous records on where the money goes. As in your situation it can alleviate a lot of headaches.

CPS in this case has stepped outside of the box in arranging for the care of these children and hopefully they can continue to use and refine the lessons that come out of this case.

 

[cheko1]

CPS is damned in this case either which way they turn.

I think CPS & Texas need a standing ovation :clap: for a job well done.

 

[cheko1]

The parents (mothers) here who have recounted their OWN personal experiences with FALSE reports to CPS and the subsequent investigations show clearly HOW the FLDS incident varied from the NORM!

When CPS showed up to investigate allegations of abuse what did THESE NORMAL innocent falsely accused mothers do??

The mothers were HONEST AND OPEN - had "nothing to hide". They were EAGER to PROVE THE ALLEGATIONS FALSE!

FLDS parents LIED, made the children LIE and engaged in an organized cover-up to HIDE children who were NOT their bio children, but who lived with them AND a cover-up to hide a number (not just ONE) of underage pregnancies and underage marriages by GIRLS who were in their care. It wasn't just ONE parent or person - it was institutionalized - it involved ALL the parents and ALL the children.

Normal MOTHERS are eager to prove that they are GOOD MOTHERS. And they certainly can PROVE in a heartbeat (if necessary) that their children are (legally) their children - and NOT someone else's.
Normal children know who their parents are and can point them out of a CROWD.
Normal children do not change their names from day-to-day.
Normal, good families do NOT have much to hide, really. They aren't perfect, but there aren't big dark secrets that kids must be TRAINED from birth to lie about.

If the FLDS is so wonderful a life and faith and they KNOW they live "right" and aside from spiritual plural marriages (polygamy) they are "just like us" - then why all the complicated subterfuge? Why the layers of lies? If there is nothing to "hide" then why are they going to such trouble to hide under a hundred complicated lies even the smallest fact - like the NAMES and parentage of the children? And WHY is it necessary to "train" the KIDS to lie? If they truly believe in their faith then why must the KIDS BE TAUGHT TO LIE about it from birth - to the point of PURPOSELY misleading others. These are CHILDREN TRAINED to systematically LIE and mislead EVERYONE. That's what PEDOPHILES and CHILD PREDATORS DO, force their victims to LIE to EVERYONE!

Most religions are PROUD of the tenets and the beliefs in their "faith" and they are EAGER (the Mainstream LDS anyone) to SHARE those things with others. They don't run around HIDING "their light under a basket" - but let it shine for all to see as an example! It isn't a SECRET - but a testimony! IMO you only have to start HIDING things and covering things up and denying your own faith to your CHILDREN (and teaching them to DENY it TOO) if there is SOMETHING TO HIDE! The FLDS isn't just being "coy" or keeping some practices "private/exclusive" for the faithful, they are HIDING and COVERING UP or DENYING all of it! You only have to make up a whole story out of nothing if the REAL STORY is so ugly it cannot be revealed under ANY CIRCUMSTANCES.

To ME the difference in a religion and a CULT is THE SECRETS! And the FLDS is NOTHING BUT A SECRET FROM A-Z. From beginning to END - they KNOW what they are doing is WRONG - ALL of it - and they KNOW it is SO WRONG they MUST keep it a SECRET AT ALL COSTS. In fact, the SECRETS are SO BAD that they will destroy the whole FLDS to keep them from coming out. Scorched Earth - they will burn their own villages and sacrifice their own people before they will let someone SEE the truth. A CULT is when the ORGANIZATION and it's survival (along with the "head person") is more important than the members/faithful or the beliefs. True religions are to preserve the ideals, the people, the beliefs, the salvation, the history, the benefits - CULTS are focused on preserving the ORGANIZATION and it's FIGUREHEAD (not the beliefs) above everything.

The answer FOR ME IS THAT with time, Cults always end up being about a PERSON - and NOT a belief...seldom does a cult outlive the founder/figurehead for very long. A RELIGION transcends humanity, a CULT depends on it.

My Opinion

Another great post FlowerChild!!! :blowkiss:

 

[southcitymom]

CPS is damned in this case either which way they turn....

I totally agree!

 

[mykodiak]

I started one response in which I stated that I could not believe that so many people would have gone along with another person's mistake until I remembered who we're talking about. :doh: Ok...It CAN HAPPEN! We are talking about the FLDS, after all.

However, I worked with both DPS troopers and Game Wardens for over ten years and I know their personality. They will do as ordered, but not if they feel that doing so will involve them breaking the law. There were a LOT of Troopers and Game Wardens involved in that raid. I just don't see them deliberately stepping on anyone's civil rights, going anywhere that they didn't have legal approval, or doing anything that they don't feel they can defend in a court of law. Those guys will bend over backwards to give the accused every opportunity to abide by the law, until the accused pushes too far. DPS and Game Wardens know that they will be watched by not only the public, but by their Sergeant, Lieutenant, and every other person up the chain of command. I've had them tell me that they KNEW that a person had broken the law...but they didn't have enough proof to convict, so they let them go. They know that there will always be another chance at catching the perp. They go by the book. They KNOW the value of covering their bases each and every time they confront someone and accuse them of breaking the law. It's not just a case of CYA. It's a case of developing steps that become ingrained habits. They know that when they follow the same guidelines EACH AND EVERY TIME, they will not have anything to regret later.

 

[mysteriew]

Reading comments on articles is interesting. Right after it happened, there was a lot of outcry against the raid. Some of those speaking against it, I really questioned if perhaps it wasn't actually members of the FLDS speaking. Those comments have eased up and most of the opinion seems to be in favor of the raid. But now, reading the articles and opinion pieces, I am seeing the media articles subtly changing and becoming more disapproving- and I am seeing that attitude pop up in different states.

With the gag order by the court, CPS is not permitted to release info on their findings. And the FLDS is taking advantage of that by issuing their own propaganda. I fear that if the court does not allow the release of some info about the findings that public opinion will turn against the CPS and the raid.

If they would just give statistical info, or info on how many sex abuse, how many child abuse, how many incest or a list of the type of things they are looking at it would help.

 

[believe09]

Lion, from those who've left the FLDS, male or female, they've all said the same thing, that this has been going on for generations. The religious aspect was nothing more than a cover for their actions. Warren Jeffs is just another in a long line of twisted sexual perversion. Without the iron control they couldn't have that level of access to sex. I also think that these leaders have a low opinon of women to begin with and embrace the teaching because it gives them what they want...control.

I mean, really, the majority of the men, especially the leaders, they're no great shakes in the looks dept. even when young. How many young girls or women would look at them as they would a younger boy or man? Without that control these old farts wouldn't have 22 or more wives. 80? GMAB. They'd be lucky to have one, and they'd have to improve their attitudes.

I've read several accounts that say Warren Jeffs made the girls skin crawl when he was near them. I'm with you, I think he continued it because he's as twisted or more.

Sound just like the sex abuse scandal in the Catholic church...one of the primary differences of course being that Christianity does not advocate for sex between priests and children, or parishoners for that matter.

 

[Floh]

I started one response in which I stated that I could not believe that so many people would have gone along with another person's mistake until I remembered who we're talking about. :doh: Ok...It CAN HAPPEN! We are talking about the FLDS, after all.

However, I worked with both DPS troopers and Game Wardens for over ten years and I know their personality. They will do as ordered, but not if they feel that doing so will involve them breaking the law. There were a LOT of Troopers and Game Wardens involved in that raid. I just don't see them deliberately stepping on anyone's civil rights, going anywhere that they didn't have legal approval, or doing anything that they don't feel they can defend in a court of law. Those guys will bend over backwards to give the accused every opportunity to abide by the law, until the accused pushes too far. DPS and Game Wardens know that they will be watched by not only the public, but by their Sergeant, Lieutenant, and every other person up the chain of command. I've had them tell me that they KNEW that a person had broken the law...but they didn't have enough proof to convict, so they let them go. They know that there will always be another chance at catching the perp. They go by the book. They KNOW the value of covering their bases each and every time they confront someone and accuse them of breaking the law. It's not just a case of CYA. It's a case of developing steps that become ingrained habits. They know that when they follow the same guidelines EACH AND EVERY TIME, they will not have anything to regret later.

Yes. that. i agree.

 

[Leila]

Reading comments on articles is interesting. Right after it happened, there was a lot of outcry against the raid. Some of those speaking against it, I really questioned if perhaps it wasn't actually members of the FLDS speaking. Those comments have eased up and most of the opinion seems to be in favor of the raid. But now, reading the articles and opinion pieces, I am seeing the media articles subtly changing and becoming more disapproving- and I am seeing that attitude pop up in different states.

With the gag order by the court, CPS is not permitted to release info on their findings. And the FLDS is taking advantage of that by issuing their own propaganda. I fear that if the court does not allow the release of some info about the findings that public opinion will turn against the CPS and the raid.

If they would just give statistical info, or info on how many sex abuse, how many child abuse, how many incest or a list of the type of things they are looking at it would help.

I also noted a pro-FLDS response right after the raid. It seems that almost every newspaper today has a comments section following an article, and I often scan through them to get a feel for public reaction. Certain newspapers had a strong pro-FLDS response initially. One prolific poster to a Utah newspaper was downright scary, proposing to organize a militia to march on Texas! That poster seemed to be behind a petition in support of the FLDS.

Edited to add............I think it would be a good idea for the Texas authorities to release some statistics regarding evidence of abuse as it would at least define the case.

 

[mysteriew]

FLDS is saying that the process that the raid occurred under was incorrect. Now it is my understanding that CPS got the call, they had to investigate. They requested assistance from LE. While they do not always do that, it is my understanding that is a judgement call by the agency and is done to protect the workers.

Now LE and CPS goes in and sees a crime. Seemingly not the same crime that was involved in the call, but sees evidence of a crime.

I don't think the FLDS attorneys are fighting the removal of the children so much. I think they are preparing for a criminal case and that is what all of the fuss about due process is for. Requirements for removing kids is pretty clear cut, and they happen all the time.

Anyway, I was thinking. Many times in small towns when an accident, illness, fire or injury occurs, LE will show up at the medical or fire scene. They may direct traffic or serve purposes at the scene even if they weren't called for an offical purpose. Officers will not search for drugs, but if that officer would for instance see drugs in the open, you can bet there will be an investigation. And that someone will be arrested for those drugs. And if they see drugs in the open, it is possible that they will call for a search warrant and do a search of the property. And those convictions usually stand.

 

[LinasK]

CPS is damned in this case either which way they turn.

I think CPS & Texas need a standing ovation :clap: for a job well done.

:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap: