Did the jury get it wrong, or...

[Velouria]

Criminal Profiler Pat Brown Weighs In:Arguments in Favor of the
Casey Anthony Jury Verdict

http://patbrownprofiling.blogspot.com/

 

[kgeaux]

I am enjoying our conversation, Solange. You are stretching my brain cells!

I am just disheartened, i feel like people think reality is tv. Where everything points to one person, only at the end it ends up being the last person you expect. In real life, when you have all these things saying : dead body in her car, she was the last person with the victim, she hid the fact the victim was dead, etc, it means she did it. I dont understand how that can be logically denied. It takes a lot of stretching of the imagination and reality and the way the real world works to think this was an accident. Of course the prosecution was confident, im assuming like me and half the world they could not believe anyone with any sense could think all these incriminating things are coincidental.

I do not watch reality TV, and have not watched Nancy Grace, Jane, or Greta since before Caylee's body was found. My opinions and interpretations come from reading document "dumps" and watching the trial.

shown or proven. Again, just like with SP, who knows where, when how he killed Laci and Connor. The jury didn't yet they were snart and dilligent enough to thoroughly examine the evidence and connect the dots. This jury could not be bothered and that is what I find most disturbing, that 12 people were all so self interested that they major concern was leaving. No one will ever convince me that they expended the requisite effort. It's not the system that's the prblem it's the human error element. I just find it difficult to believe that there was not one person who insisted on actually performing their duties as justice demanded.

The only reason the question of where comes into play in this case is because the prosecutor stated that the body was kept in the trunk for a period of time. Jurors apparently felt the evidence did not back him up.

I am pretty sure that you said something about the tape not being on the skull. Maybe I misunderstood

I did say the tape was not adhered to the skull. I was trying, apparently unsuccessfully, to point out that the tape had enough slack to have shifted position when Mr. Kronk moved the skull.

Oh i know, i just saw someone say they thought LDB's closing was cocky, I wasnt referring to the pigs thing. But Caylee's body was in bags. The other expert said that could be the cause of no blowflies, and he has more experience. I wonder why you choose to believe one over the other? Do you think the other expert for the state lied?

Blow flies were found in the bags, weren't they? My only question is why they were not found in the TRUNK. Here is my train of thought: If no blowflies were in the trunk, it is reasonable to believe the body was never in the trunk. If the body was never in the trunk, then that directly contradicts the prosecution's theory.

The giggling was unproffesional, and he has admitted that. But Jose;s closing was bordering on ridiculous. The whole outrage at the cops and everyone being the enemy of poor Casey. I havent found a single person, even of those who agree with the verdict, who think;s Jose's explanation of things was not farfetched. He made some good arguments in the closing, but when JA was laughing, it was when he was getting especially ridiculous. But I agree, JA should have not done it, and even he has said it

I am not a Jose fan. I do think he made good arguments. His ONLY burden in the trial was to introduce reasonable doubt, and apparently he was successful.



The fact that anyone has to sit here and come up with alternatives to so much (like the smell was rotting pork although none was found, etc.) is proof enough that she is guilty

The above quote is why I said I had not pulled the facts about pork out of the air. I didn't sit here and come up with anything, it was testimony.

 

[magic-cat]

Here is what i think why they are blaming poor George...

George normally takes care of little Caylee whenever Cindy goes to work and Casey goes out to party and go everywhere... when George started working again, Caylee is left with her mother - but Casey forgot that George is about to start working that day so she left the house too and poor Caylee was left alone in the house....

IF she drowned, which I highly doubt, but let's assume she did. It would have had to have been after George left for work and she came back to the house as was her habit each and every day. She pretended to go to work, then she came back after he left. So she comes back. She and Caylee perhaps take a swim, thus the ladder is on the pool. She is not consciensious about removing the ladder, as this is her parents "job" so she leaves the ladder up. She goes back inside and lets Caylee play alone in the backyard while she gets on My Space and Facebook. Suddenly she realizes she does not hear Caylee. She jumps up and runs and finds Caylee dead, or almost dead, in the pool. So what does she do at this point? Nothing. Not one single thing. She lets her drown. OR it is too late, or so she thinks, and she knows her parents are going to go apesh$t so she, the cunning liar of many years gone by, comes up with a cover for herself. A kidnapping, yes! With duct tape over the face, and disposed of in the woods. Over done with gone. That was it for her...On to La Bella Vita and sex and a movie with her man.

Even IF it happened that way? And she put the duct tape on to make it look like a kidnapping occurred? She is still as guilty as the day is long, and should have been held accountable. George didn't do this. George found out with the rest. He was a broken man. Does anyone remember when he screamed at the reporter "The dead body in my daughters car was NOT my granddaughter" or words to that effect? He was as in the dark as anyone. Nope, this family have colluded with this defense team to get HER off and make sure no charges could stick to anyone else...they are slicker than snought and twice as sticky!:banghead:

 

[RSDhoping for a cure]

:anguish::anguish::anguish:

I voted they got it wrong. IMO very, very wrong!

I will never understand how the jurors checked their common sense at the deliberation door!

Evidence + common sense= Guilty!

 

[milliac]

I voted all three…

The jury got it wrong - I believe they got it wrong when it came to the Child Abuse and Manslaughter charge. I think their verdict on the other charges were correct IF you go according to the law and the instructions they were given. I do not understand how they did not find her guilty of the lesser two crimes. Going by the law and jury instructions “The death of Caylee Marie Anthony was caused by the culpable negligence of Casey Marie Anthony”. Well if they believed that the death of Caylee was from an accidental drowning they should have convicted her of Aggravated Manslaughter and Aggravated Child Abuse as she was under Casey's care when the "drowning" happened, and although that doesn't necessarily make it a crime, not seeking help for the drowning does (it's "culpable negligence") so I cannot understand how they did not find her guilty of these two crimes.

The state didn't prove its case beyond a reasonable doubt – IMO the State did not prove their case beyond a reasonable doubt when it came to proving that Casey was the cause of Caylee death. There were too many loose ends in their theory on how Caylee died and they didn’t tie it all together. For example, the Chloroform. They never gave any BARD evidence to support that Casey actual made Chloroform and used it on Caylee. I understand that they didn't have this evidence to present but that's the whole point, there was nothing substantial to go on. The internet searches did not prove this BARD and the level in the trunk was disputed so it could not be trusted. The Duct Tape - without seeing the photos I can’t really speculate on whether or not this was used as a method to kill Caylee. Mostly because of the various different testimonies on how the skull was found/moved. From the testimony itself there was some doubt, however I do believe if I was on the jury and saw the photos I probably would have been persuaded to believe it was used to kill Caylee (which would have changed my opinion on the first option above).

The Defense provided reasonable doubt and the jury got it right – I only half believe this statement. I think that the Defense created reasonable doubt when it came to the possibility of an accident ONLY because the SA couldn’t prove BARD how Caylee died. Since the drowning was allowed as evidence in this case it gave the jurors an alternative theory and allowed a possibility of another way of the death occurring. If they weren’t sure of either (murder or accident) and had to weigh between the two then they would have to go with the accident as the DT doesn’t have to prove it BARD but the SA does.

Very interesting perspective. I wish I could go back and not know everything I do. It's amazing the DT can present a theory and not have to prove it. Thanks for your insight. I agree they should have charged her with something in regards to her daughter.

 

[magic-cat]

Another thing? NO, ZERO, NADA hairs from live persons have EVER been shown to have the deathband. None. THAT should have screamed to them: dead body was in the car. Car was cleaned, obviously pretty thoroughly, but one single hair escaped...There was a hair with a death band and there was plenty of expert testimony that a death banded hair ONLY comes from a corpse. That one tiny hair places Caylee in the trunk, AND dead at the same time. It's not rocket science. But it IS science. And there is evidence out there in the scientific community that this means a dead body. Why was that just glazed over as if it did not exist?

 

[Peepers]

I dont think anyone can say if the jury got it right or wrong..it is what it is..they are the ones that had to determine a verdict based on the evidence they heard and saw..not behavior, not lack or remorse, not tattoos, most of all without emotion, but proof there was a murder and KC did it. The fact of the matter is, there was no evidence of when or where or how Caylee died, there were theories, yes..but no evidence. Even if Caylee was in the trunk of the car, there was no proof given of when she died and who put her there. They jury cannot come to a conclusion based on what is "most likely" or "what it looks like". Its fine to say we dont agree with the verdict but to say the jury got it wrong, to me, is impossible. a jury is the luck of the draw and if she had been convicted we would all be saying it was a great verdict. I said from the beginning, they never connected KC to chloroform, they could have shown the ingredients in the house from a search warrant. Did she chloroform her or did she duct tape her mouth..which is it?????

 

[Peepers]

It infuriates me that Kc will walk free, a rich woman, but I dont blame the jury for that.

 

[social lady]

The State did not prove murder in the first degree, for sure, to me. I think they were so worried about what the Anthonys might say or not say, what Kronk might say or not say, they left off in certain areas and hammered on the science, which clearly did not work out for them. The jury needed to know a lot more about the household vibrations and relationships...JMO

I completely agree. The prosecution teamed up with the parents because they needed their testimony and, in turn, had to leave out any arguments that might implicate or discredit them. What brilliant manipulators these parents are...they got themselves out of trouble and will credit themselves for saving their daughters life to boot...as if she wasn't already eternally indebted..

 

[com n sense]

They basically disregarded the forensic evidence. There needs to be some kind of test of critical thinking ability imo. What's the point of having educated elite experts come in and give their testimony, if jurors choose to be ignorant of their opinions - in fact they seem to have based their decision on things that were not in evidence imo.

But they sure listened to Baez's experts. Dr Spitz said the duct tape was placed on the face by someone who set up the scene, not KC & they believed him. Baez's experts said the chloroform was from cleaning products, they believe it. Baez's expert says there was garbage not a body inthe trunk, they believed it. I don't think they heard a word the state said & proved.

 

[Chris_Texas]

The state actually addressed every question I have heard raised. And while there was no mathematical proof, this being a court of law rather than a laboratory, the evidence they presented far surpassed any reasonable doubt.

This was, of course, irrelevant as the jury did not feel it necessary to review ANY of the evidence presented in this case. We also know that they did not feel it necessary to read or follow the judge's instructions.

That said, I blame some of this on the prosecution team. They did not take the time to educate the jury as to what reasonable doubt means.

 

[Nova24]

George didn't molest anyone nor did LA. That was a very clever ploy invented by ICA to garner sympathy and steer people away from the fact that she murdered her daughter. It worked. Why anyone would believe anything a known pathological liar and master manipulator would say is beyond me. She was facing the DP and played the jury like fiddles. They will one day see that but it will be too late.

 

[Steven30CA]

YES THESE 12 jurors GOT IT WRONG, totally wrong.

I was rewatching the verdict tonight.. I noticed 3 things before the court's reporter? the lady who has a redish hair?

1-When Judge Perry was reading the verdict form I noticed that he was shaking his head slighty, but its not noticeable if you were not paying attention.
2-When He handed the verdict form to the lady. he handed it to her forcefully.
3-When she was reading the verdict her voice changed and her hands started to shake.& her left hand was messing with the form. and she didn't know where to put the verdict form. and forgot to move the mic before asking the jury if its their true verdicts. Judge Perry was PI$$ED.....

Sorry Caylee....


See you guys on monday.. i m leaving on a cruise in the morning. and will be back on monday...

 

[com n sense]

Oh yeah, it was so orchestrated with the Anthony's and so apparent. The defense was suprised it worked, and they were able to confuse the jury enough they did not even know what was evidence or lesser charges. They listened to Baez subliminally plant what he wanted in their brains, with NO basis in FACTS, and they fell for it. Also they asked for those millions of mistrials as part of their strategy to, to disrupt the proceedings and to get certain things on the record in case they needed to appeal, not because they thought they wouldn't win. That is just another defense ploy, and it worked out pretty daggone good for them this time I'd say. lol

What: Caylee Anthony is dead. Where-in the woods on Suburban Drive-a hop skip and a jump from where she lived her entire life. When-June 16th is the evident death date as she was never seen again.

How was the ONLY thing that was not answered explicitly but it was answered in general terms.

They had all the evidence that a reasonable man would have needed to connect the dots. They threw in the towel, without examining the multitudes of evidence, Juror 3 has already told us that, without going over and sorting what was true and what was lies and what were they left with. ALL the experts agreed that there was decomp in the car and yet they had trouble understanding their was a body that came from? Of course she would have cleaned the car, trying to get rid of the smell...she found out that ain't so easily done. Then her parents likely cleaned it too trying to protect her...

She was a skeleton with duct tape adhered into her hair in such a way that it held her face together. That means something to a reasonable thinking juror. Or it should, considering all the mountains and multitudes of other evidence that was presented. They threw in the towel and as someone who knows a whole lot more about it than they ever will? That disgusts me, for the little girl who deserved to have them examine the evidence in full...and not just "start" and quit.

Excellent head on post....:clap::clap::clap:

 

[Nova24]

YES THESE 12 jurors GOT IT WRONG, totally wrong.

I was rewatching the verdict tonight.. I noticed 3 things before the court's reporter? the lady who has a redish hair?

1-When Judge Perry was reading the verdict form I noticed that he was shaking his head slighty, but its not noticeable if you were not paying attention.
2-When He handed the verdict form to the lady. he handed it to her forcefully.
3-When she was reading the verdict her voice changed and her hands started to shake.& her left hand was messing with the form. and she didn't know where to put the verdict form. and forgot to move the mic before asking the jury if its their true verdicts. Judge Perry was PI$$ED.....

Sorry Caylee....


See you guys on monday.. i m leaving on a cruise in the morning. and will be back on monday...

Have a fun cruise!!

 

[Chris_Texas]

I dont think anyone can say if the jury got it right or wrong..it is what it is..they are the ones that had to determine a verdict based on the evidence they heard and saw..not behavior, not lack or remorse, not tattoos, most of all without emotion, but proof there was a murder and KC did it. The fact of the matter is, there was no evidence of when or where or how Caylee died, there were theories, yes..but no evidence. Even if Caylee was in the trunk of the car, there was no proof given of when she died and who put her there. They jury cannot come to a conclusion based on what is "most likely" or "what it looks like". Its fine to say we dont agree with the verdict but to say the jury got it wrong, to me, is impossible. a jury is the luck of the draw and if she had been convicted we would all be saying it was a great verdict. I said from the beginning, they never connected KC to chloroform, they could have shown the ingredients in the house from a search warrant. Did she chloroform her or did she duct tape her mouth..which is it?????

Based upon this "standard" you propose here, if the police raid the home of a suspected serial killer and unearth the skeletal remains of a couple victims in his yard, they should not charge him with murder, nor should a jury convict.

After all, they don't know exactly how he killed them unless the skeleton shows trauma. They don't even know for an absolute fact that he killed them at all. It doesn't matter how many skeletons there are. One, two, twenty-two, it could be a coincidence. Perhaps they all drowned, right? Even if our maniac was the last person seen with every one of them, still not "proof." He is, at worst, only guilty of undertaking without a license perhaps, or improper disposal.

In this case though, we know that Casey made statements indicating that she KNEW Caylee would be out of the way. We know that she was not only responsible for her daughter, she was the last person seen with her. We know that she lied to conceal the kids whereabouts from friends and family. We have every reason to believe that there was a dead body in the car trunk. We know that the cause of death was a rare duct tape that Casey had access to. We know the body was found in a special laundry bag which Casey was only able to secure from grandma's home. We know that Casey lied about her job, boyfriends, babysitter, location, and pretty much everything else. We know that she attempted to sidetrack, delay, and derail police investigation into this murder. We know that Casey got a tat celebrating her new wonderful post Caylee life. We know that she spent the 31 days before her child was discovered missing partying hard. We know that when the car was found it reaked like a dead body.

These are all facts and none of them have been seriously challenged. Nor do any of defense theories amount to anything more than "maybe" and "possibly" and "theoretically, it's vaguely possible."

The prosecution offered a solid motive, they showed how Caylee died, they showed that the only person who could have possibly done the crime was Casey -- she was the only person with access to all the pieces. We know all this. Was there a reasonable doubt? Were reasonable questions left unanswered?

Not if you review the evidence in the case.

 

[Nikki 01]

YES THESE 12 jurors GOT IT WRONG, totally wrong.

I was rewatching the verdict tonight.. I noticed 3 things before the court's reporter? the lady who has a redish hair?

1-When Judge Perry was reading the verdict form I noticed that he was shaking his head slighty, but its not noticeable if you were not paying attention.
2-When He handed the verdict form to the lady. he handed it to her forcefully.
3-When she was reading the verdict her voice changed and her hands started to shake.& her left hand was messing with the form. and she didn't know where to put the verdict form. and forgot to move the mic before asking the jury if its their true verdicts. Judge Perry was PI$$ED.....

Sorry Caylee....


See you guys on monday.. i m leaving on a cruise in the morning. and will be back on monday...

I can't say I notice anything in Judge Perry's demeanor to indicate what he was thinking, but the one thing I did notice is that he goes through all of the forms, and then takes a second look at the first 3 (counts 1-3). As if he needed to double check what he saw.

Have a nice trip!

 

[Baznme]

At the 1:55 mark, did she say what I thought she said? "We "started" to look through stuff. Is that it? They started to look through stuff and that's as far as they went? That indicates to me they did not study the evidence.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/casey_anth...ick-stomach-guilty-verdict/story?id=14005609#

I can see where GA's demeanor would be confusing to them. First, he's seen as on the defense side, but hostile with JB (probably for painting him as a molester) and then he seems to be on the prosecution side. He did. I woud have been confused too after my daughter tried to ruin me. She says because of that, she didn't believe a word he said.

 

[SmoothOperator]

I'm sure this has been discussed by someone in last 24 or so but I didn't see it.. It's something very troubling to me..

At some point during deliberations they took a vote and it was 2 jurors voted first degree murder and
10 voted Not Guilty..

It is troublesome to me that there were 2 separate jurors who seemed as tho they really did listen, applied common sense, and was able to discern what reasonable doubt is..

I do not understand even a tad bit(unless I believe that the duty was not taken as seriously as it truly warranted.. And I really hope it is nothing even remotely similar to that).. But in my mind I cannot understand what went on with their having been 2 first degree murder votes in favor(they weren't deciding the sentencing phase but they were aware that 1st degree could result in DP sentence)..

IMO that is absolutely a huge thing that one juror, not to mention two jurors had come to believe and arrived at their being for the 1st degree murder..

How can it be that 10 hour total deliberation and they(the 10 other jurors)had not only successfully convinced one, but had convinced both of these jurors that felt that Casey Anthony was Guilty of First Degree Murder.. To now vote the complete and total opposite.. Abandoning their choice they had voted to convict of Murder in the 1st..and instead the both of them along with the other 10 jurors now unitedly, just a few hours later they hand over their unanimous verdict of Not Guilty!!

I really don't get it!!!!!!

 

[technicalconfusion]

I was just watching Piers Morgan (Thursday July 7).

I wasn't listening close, but they were talking about the jurors. Piers said one of them said today that they didn't want to go thru the work of going thru the evidence, or they said they didn't think they should have to go thru the trouble of going thru the evidence.

Piers was talking to a lawyer - don't know who.

Anyone else hear this?