Dina Shacknai wants Max's death reopened; gives ICU pic to media

[time]

I do not know. From everything I have read thus far, it appears to have been a verbal agreement between DR and JS. My point is that if there was cause for concern, it is quite possible to have a custody agreement to state that the child can only be in the care of certain parties. It is not like RZ was a new girlfriend, there was plenty of time to add this addendum. And no, a clause in a custody agreement cannot always prevent this type of thing but can be helpful in holding the other parent in default of the agreement and allow stricter custody guidelines.

Here are my points:


* It is not a fact that Rebecca being with Max alone was a cause for concern. There has been nothing that directly raises child caring concerns.

I do not think a shoplifting charge with no conviction means she is a criminal, as Dina has stated or implied, nor does it have much bearing or any bearing on how Rebecca treated or cared for Max. If she had been a prescription drug abuser, an alcoholic or alcohol abuser, or had past incidents of domestic violence or neglect, I could see concern as well as maybe other reasons. the reasons given are very thin at best.

We have no evidence Rebecca lied to Dina about who she was (her name) except Dina's word that I know of. Rebecca very well could have told her that her name was Rebecca Zahau - she did get her name changed back later and probably intended to way before that. If Dina really had concerns she also should have talked with Jonah and her lawyer about it and put it in writing if it could be justified.
​

* It is not a fact that Rebecca when she is with her family being with Max with Jonah's presence was a cause for concern. There has been nothing provided that justifies this and I haven't even seen any reason given.

* We haven't even been provided with any confirmation, other that what Dina said, that there was even a verbal agreement about any of this

 

[MyBelle]

Hi MyBelle! Can you provide a source linking Rebecca as a medical assistant working in a surgical office? Everything available at this time has shown Rebecca was as an ophthalmic technician. TIA

Opthalmologists are surgeons. Here is an example of the training required for an opthalmic technician:

https://aceweb.gvltec.edu/wconnect/CourseStatus.awp?&course=122BOB69101D

Textbook: Ophthalmic Medical Assisting (with exam access key), available at Greenville Tech Bookstore, approximate cost $155. MUST call 250-8800 to register and pay for CPR class ($60 fee plus $15 book) which must be completed 4 weeks prior to clinicals. Students are also required to complete HIPAA Privacy Training online, HIPAA II, and OSHA before clinicals;

 

[Yoda]

Opthalmologists are surgeons. Here is an example of the training required for an opthalmic technician:

https://aceweb.gvltec.edu/wconnect/CourseStatus.awp?&course=122BOB69101D

Textbook: Ophthalmic Medical Assisting (with exam access key), available at Greenville Tech Bookstore, approximate cost $155. MUST call 250-8800 to register and pay for CPR class ($60 fee plus $15 book) which must be completed 4 weeks prior to clinicals. Students are also required to complete HIPAA Privacy Training online, HIPAA II, and OSHA before clinicals;

Are the requirements the same for each state? Tia

 

[MyBelle]

Hi Jessica! Can you provide a source. I asked yesterday in post #484 below. I believe this information being claimed as verified is VERY crucial to both investigations. In my opinion it is very important to have a source on record. TIA

Post #484-
Where was this confirmed? If you're are referring to the interview with Dr. Drew, AB is referring only to Jonah and only Rebecca's investigation. Dina is NOT mentioned. If you have a different source that would be great!

CASSIDY, ALABAMA: I have a couple of questions. My first question is, I heard nothing about the father. Is he a suspect in either homicide, supposedly homicide?

PINSKY: Well, yes. To call these homicides at this point is jumping the gun a little bit. And Anne, I`ll rephrase the question for you. I know you`re having trouble hearing Cassidy, which was --

BREMNER: Yes.

PINSKY: Where does the dad fit into this -- the story? Was he a suspect at one time?

BREMNER: Apparently, he was not. His name is Jonah Shacknai. He was cooperative through all of this. He had an alibi, and it was on video. They didn`t call anybody suspects in this case, Dr. Drew. They simply closed it out as a suicide, at least, with Rebecca, and then with Max, an accident. So, they never got to the point of using that type of terminology with anybody.

http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIP.../ddhln.01.html

The caller asked about both cases, i.e., "in either homicide, supposedly homicide?" and AB answered about both.

JMO

 

[Yoda]

Are the requirements the same for each state? Tia

. The only info I found said no certification/experience is needed to be a technician in Arizona. That's interesting. Now I will be checking my state's regulations.

 

[MyBelle]

MyBelle, I agree with everything you have written. The odds were not against him surviving from get go...the paramedics were able to restart circulation within two rounds of medication.
The specialists initially thought he would make it. I believe help was not called when stated, and that was why he did not survive because of a lack of oxygen. You are completely right, it is not ok for a grown adult woman to stand around and do nothing, or do something else instead of calling for help.
C.P.R., no C.P.R. it does not matter. The bottom line is, she told many different stories to many different people, avoided every question about the accident, and acted very suspiciously. In the police car, she stated to X<modsnip>, "Dina is going to kill me." Why would she state that if she were just an innocent bystander when the child "fell"? She did not remember how she had found Maxie, and she did not know what happened, but when Nina asked her where the fall happened from, she pointed at the bedroom...the bedroom which only contained hers and Max's fingerprints. When the paramedics arrived, she remembered enough to blame the dog, and to say that Max was not asked to ride his scooter upstairs. How would somebody who was taking a shower at the time of this fatal "fall" and hypothetically was too in shock to give c.p.r., be able to come to a conclusion of how the child ended up in that condition in the two minutes it would have taken for paramedics to arrive?
Doesn't sound right to me.

I agree it doesn't sound right and I applaud the mother for taking the initiative and demanding answers.

 

[MyBelle]

. The only info I found said no certification/experience is needed to be a technician in Arizona. That's interesting. Now I will be checking my state's regulations.

CPR training is usually mandatory. If you a program that doesn't require it, please let me know. Thanks.

 

[Yoda]

MyBelle, I agree with everything you have written. The odds were not against him surviving from get go...the paramedics were able to restart circulation within two rounds of medication.
The specialists initially thought he would make it. I believe help was not called when stated, and that was why he did not survive because of a lack of oxygen. You are completely right, it is not ok for a grown adult woman to stand around and do nothing, or do something else instead of calling for help.
C.P.R., no C.P.R. it does not matter. The bottom line is, she told many different stories to many different people, avoided every question about the accident, and acted very suspiciously. In the police car, she stated to X<modsnip>"Dina is going to kill me." Why would she state that if she were just an innocent bystander when the child "fell"? She did not remember how she had found Maxie, and she did not know what happened, but when Nina asked her where the fall happened from, she pointed at the bedroom...the bedroom which only contained hers and Max's fingerprints. When the paramedics arrived, she remembered enough to blame the dog, and to say that Max was not asked to ride his scooter upstairs. How would somebody who was taking a shower at the time of this fatal "fall" and hypothetically was too in shock to give c.p.r., be able to come to a conclusion of how the child ended up in that condition in the two minutes it would have taken for paramedics to arrive?
Doesn't sound right to me.

Please share the Link for what was said in the police car.

 

[K_Z]

I'll just point out again that being required to TAKE a CPR course is not an equivalent comparison to demonstrating PROFICIENCY OR EXPERTISE in CPR.

Who cares if she was a layperson, or an eye tech in this discussion of CPR?? It simple doesn't matter.

Which is it? Smear her because she was an expert who worked in a surgeon's office and should have known better, or smear her because she was only a technician and should have known better? Or just smear her efforts because she was just a "babysitter?" She is dead, and cannot defend herself against any of these accusations.

Under California Good Samaratin law, she was attempting to render lifesaving care. She may have done a less than perfect job in a highly stressful and emotional situation. She would have been protected under that law against civil suits as well.

 

[*Lash*]

The caller asked about both cases, i.e., "in either homicide, supposedly homicide?" and AB answered about both.

JMO

Originally Posted by Jessica2012
AB admitted the other day that the whereabouts of Jonah and Dina were in fact verified.

Dr. Drew rephrased the callers question for AB. We can agree to disagree. We still have no source referencing AB verifiying Dina's whereabouts. Dina was not mentioned.

 

[nursebeeme]

gentle reminder: please do not post minor names other than that of the victim... Thanks everyone.

 

[Yoda]

CPR training is usually mandatory. If you a program that doesn't require it, please let me know. Thanks.

Link to recommended requirements if she chose to get certified. It appears Arizona does not require certification or CPR. That does not mean she wasn't certified or didn't have CPR.
http://www.jcahpo.org/certification/pdfs/CriteriaforCert_FULL.pdf

 

[K_Z]

MyBelle, I agree with everything you have written. The odds were not against him surviving from get go...the paramedics were able to restart circulation within two rounds of medication.
The specialists initially thought he would make it.

Snipped. Again, I'd love to hear from some verified specialists and verified insiders about this.

What specialists thought he would make it? At the first ER in Coronado? At Rady? What day was this? At what point in the evaluation process did they think this?

And what do you mean by "make it?" As in, full neurological recovery? Persistent vegetative state? Somewhere in the middle?

Nothing, but nothing about this child's presentation suggests that he had any hopeful outcome, beginning with the paramedics arriving and taking him to the Coronado hospital. I can understand that Dina may not have understood this emotionally or cognitively in her shock and grief, but it's a pretty big leap to suggest that the whole ER/ PICU team at Rady thought he just had a small neuro insult and he would make a pretty good recovery.

And by the way-- did these specialists that thought he would make it, was that their opinion when they made the social services notifications that he was gravely injured in an unwitnessed fall? Did they think he would make it at that point?

For most of the days he was in the ICU, the process of establishing brain death was occurring-- at least the last 48 to 72 hours of his admission. The first day or so was stabilizing him and determining the extent of his injuries, and supporting him and looking for any signs of improvement. When it became clear that there was no improvement or hopeful signs, that is when the decision is made to formally document the criteria for brain death-- and that takes 1 to 3 days in circumstances like this. Repeat evaluations over time, but several measures and several separate clinicians.

 

[Yoda]

There are photos of the banister in the new report- found the link finally- woo hoo. JS said the marks were not there the evening before. The marks are very strange and the coloring is strange. Any ideas. To me it looks like someone smashing a hard object into a few spots. Tia and jmo
http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Bove_Report.pdf

 

[Yoda]

Did they ever fingerprint the banister? Tia

 

[time]

There are photos of the banister in the new report- found the link finally- woo hoo. JS said the marks were not there the evening before. The marks are very strange and the coloring is strange. Any ideas. To me it looks like someone smashing a hard object into a few spots. Tia and jmo
http://media.utsandiego.com/news/documents/2012/08/06/Dr.Bove_Report.pdf

Please, comment on the other thread specifically about these reports too!

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showthread.php?t=181350"]Max's Death - Dina's Independent Experts Summary Reports - Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community[/ame]

 

[Yoda]

Sorry, more thought after going back to the photos. If LE though he went over the rail at the dip down point did they think the scooter struck the rail? I don't remember reading that. And if it did I would think it would have left a mark of some kind. I cant see one in the area where LE said he went over. And if it didn't hit the rail does that mean The scooter didn't touch anything from the floor to over the rail? And then where did those odd marks on the post come from? They aren't even where LE said he went over. I wonder if the other children would remember if they were there before or not.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

RZ didn't call 9-1-1, her sister did.

CPR is first aid. RZ worked in a surgical office. My daughter was trained so she could baby-sit. There is really no excuse for failing to provide first aid to an injured child. She didn't bother even lifting the scooter off the child's leg.

JMO

OR she took the time to place the scooter there.

 

[MyBelle]

I'll just point out again that being required to TAKE a CPR course is not an equivalent comparison to demonstrating PROFICIENCY OR EXPERTISE in CPR.

Who cares if she was a layperson, or an eye tech in this discussion of CPR?? It simple doesn't matter.

Which is it? Smear her because she was an expert who worked in a surgeon's office and should have known better, or smear her because she was only a technician and should have known better? Or just smear her efforts because she was just a "babysitter?" She is dead, and cannot defend herself against any of these accusations.

Under California Good Samaratin law, she was attempting to render lifesaving care. She may have done a less than perfect job in a highly stressful and emotional situation. She would have been protected under that law against civil suits as well.

Discussing her ability to render aid on a thread that is discussing a death of a child in her care is on topic, imo. Nobody is forced to engage in the discussion.

CPR proficiency is usually required if one wants to obtain licensure in a medical field in order to work in a medical office. According to RZ's former boss, she was certified. Her sister is also quoted and said that certification and her career was a priority with both of them.




http://www.thedailybeast.com/articl...ebecca-zahau-incident-remains-mysterious.html

Zahau&#8217;s former boss says that Zahau, who herself was divorced in February and went by the name Nalepa, quit her job as a certified ophthalmic technician last December to spend more time with Shacknai and his family.

JMO

 

[Yoda]

according to the link I just posted, RZ choose to be certified.

It says she is certified in that link?