Dina Shacknai wants Max's death reopened; gives ICU pic to media

[CuriousGeorgia]

KZ, I'm curious why you feel the picture of Max in the ICU is so explotive, but you openly approved of the Zahaus digging up Rebecca for a sweeps week special. Dr. Phil showed Rebecca as she was having a 2nd autopsy, after she had been buried for months- with Mary Zahau sitting right there. Why was that ok, and what Dina is doing is not?

JMO

 

[time]

KZ, I'm curious why you feel the picture of Max in the ICU is so explotive, but you openly approved of the Zahaus digging up Rebecca for a sweeps week special. Dr. Phil showed Rebecca as she was having a 2nd autopsy, after she had been buried for months- with Mary Zahau sitting right there. Why was that ok, and what Dina is doing is not?

JMO

Everyone had already seen Rebecca's naked splayed body blasted on TV, uncovered for hours, lying dead, outside the mansion. There were even reports the teenage neighbor boys were watching. The Zahau's had nothing to do with that. After you've already seen her like that, what does it matter if you see a version of her in autopsy. I also believe they thought Dr. Phil was a way to gain exposure for the case and pay for a second autopsy. I'm sure they had little control over much of it and it is Dr. Phil and his producers who were the most exploitative.

 

[time]

Time, I was never a part of THM, but in response to the quote you brought forward, I respectfully disagree. There is no such thing as "unplugging of the spinal cord" (This is physically impossible). Max absolutely did not suffer clinical death on impact, he died in the hospital. The fatal damage was not done before anyone found him- The doctors initially thought they could save him. Remember that his brain herniated much later (in the hospital), as a result of the swelling in his brain, not on impact, Max's spinal cord injury was not severe enough to cause the chain reaction that happened. It was a flexion/extension injury-There is no stretch injury to the cord which causes immediate death. Max's spinal cord was not "shredded at the junction of the brainstem" on the autopsy report- the cord looked the way it did on the autopsy report because of tonsillar herniation( herniation of the cerebellar tonsils out the foramen magnum, because the pressure in his skull became so high due to lack of oxygen).
All my opinion

"Unplugged Spinal Cord" is, of course, a colloquial phrase not a medical one. I am not an expert and will leave the discussion to others, but this is what the autopsy says (report attached, pg 5 of report, pg 2 of autopsy)..

This pattern of injuries is consistent with a face first impact on the floor from a fall, causing the skull fracture, hyperextension of the neck (bending the neck backward), and subsequent injury of the spinal cord. A spinal cord injury at this level can cause cardiorespiratory arrest (cessation of heart activity and/or breathing), which explains the decedent's loss of blood flow and oxygen on the day he fell. The time between this event and when his pulse was regained 25-30 minutes later resulted in irreversible damage to his brain, which ultimately led to his death five days later.

The other source I quoted can be seen in this non-LE/coroner explanation. I am not saying it is correct or not, just offering it up (second attachment).

 

[jjenny]

Time, I was never a part of THM, but in response to the quote you brought forward, I respectfully disagree. There is no such thing as "unplugging of the spinal cord" (This is physically impossible). Max absolutely did not suffer clinical death on impact, he died in the hospital. The fatal damage was not done before anyone found him- The doctors initially thought they could save him. Remember that his brain herniated much later (in the hospital), as a result of the swelling in his brain, not on impact, Max's spinal cord injury was not severe enough to cause the chain reaction that happened. It was a flexion/extension injury-There is no stretch injury to the cord which causes immediate death. Max's spinal cord was not "shredded at the junction of the brainstem" on the autopsy report- the cord looked the way it did on the autopsy report because of tonsillar herniation( herniation of the cerebellar tonsils out the foramen magnum, because the pressure in his skull became so high due to lack of oxygen).
All my opinion

The reason he died in the hospital and not on impact is because paramedics were able to restore his circulation (eventually).
Before his circulation was restored his brain was damaged due to lack of oxygen.
The restoration of circulation didn't take place immediately upon arrival of paramedics because it took them a while of working on him to restore the circulation.
None of this proves that the injury occurred way before paramedics arrived.
Furthermore, Rebecca had no motive whatsoever to assault him and then throw him down the stairs (which is the scenario put forward). Presumably she was hoping to become the third Mrs.S. Assaulting a child and then throwing him down the stairs would make no sense whatsoever in that scenario. And as far as I can tell, nobody described her as violent and ill tempered either.

 

[time]

In one or more of the articles some of the finding related to Max's center of gravity and the height of the railing were reported. Here is a problem I am having with that:

Early on, by looking at actual photos of the railing/banister, it appeared there were lower heights to it, significantly lower perhaps. That is not discussed - from where did they measure the height of the railing and what are the measurements of all the railing heights. Of course, we have the photos and anything that LE collected (did they describe all th e railings with heights and, if so, could someone provide that here), No one has been allowed back in the house to investigate because of some iffy maneuvers - does this also mean Dina and her experts? In addition, if Max were standing on a skateboard, his center of gravity would be significantly different.

 

[jjenny]

In one or more of the articles some of the finding related to Max's center of gravity and the height of the railing were reported. Here is a problem I am having with that:

Early on, by looking at actual photos of the railing/banister, it appeared there were lower heights to it, significantly lower perhaps. That is not discussed - from where did they measure the height of the railing and what are the measurements of all the railing heights. Of course, we have the photos and anything that LE collected (did they describe all th e railings with heights and, if so, could someone provide that here), No one has been allowed back in the house to investigate because of some iffy maneuvers - does this also mean Dina and her experts? In addition, if Max were standing on a skateboard, his center of gravity would be significantly different.

I don't understand the center of gravity argument either. That railing does look a lot lower next to the corner areas. Also, how does the "center of gravity" argument
take into account the child possibly running/jumping, tripping over the dog, or even using his scooter?

 

[time]

I don't understand the center of gravity argument either. That railing does look a lot lower next to the corner areas. Also, how does the "center of gravity" argument
take into account the child possibly running/jumping, tripping over the dog, or even using his scooter?

Yeah, I don't think it does take into account running/jumping, tripping over the dog, or even using his scooter? One of those had to occur right? Or something of that sort. No one ever claimed he was just standing there, bent over at the waist, and ended up like he did. And, I am still thinking planking could be a possibility. He saw other kids doing it or a video or talking about it. Or he stood on the rail for some reason.

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

The homicide theory account takes running, jumping, riding on the scooter, riding on the dog, balancing on the soccer ball, etc; into account. It finds there is no explanation for Max's injuries other than physical assault:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/102202462/Max-Shacknai-Summary-of-Reports

 

[jjenny]

The homicide theory account takes running, jumping, riding on the scooter, riding on the dog, balancing on the soccer ball, etc; into account. It finds there is no explanation for Max's injuries other than physical assault:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/102202462/Max-Shacknai-Summary-of-Reports

They use the height of the railing at 32 and 1/4 inch. I presume it is not that height where it bends. And how can they rule out him standing on top of the stairs going over lower area of the railing? However imperfect police drawing is (doesn't appear to be in scale) it alludes to him going over lower area of the railing from the top step.

 

[imamaze]

Reminder...

We are a victim friendly site and minors are not discussable here at Websleuths, other than the victim.

Thanks.

 

[freespeech]

Okay, I only know a brief outline of the case, and I have no prior opinion on Dina, or what happened to Max. But I don't think we can assume that she sold the picture. From what I understand, the first website that it appeared on was a local news site. I doubt they have much money to be buying pictures. It's possible that Dina decided to release the picture so it would spark outrage. The public would see it, and demand that the case be re-opened. I know that Emmett Till's mother had an open casket funeral for him so people could see what his killers did to him. Dina might have the same mentality, that people need to face what happened to Max so they don't shove it under the carpet.

Also, there have been many times on the news when I have seen a picture of someone in the ICU, which were obviously released by the family. What's the difference?

Who tried to shove this under the carpet? Max's case should never have been closed just like Rebecca's. Two unexplained deaths from the same home. This was definitely a rush to judgement by law enforcement in BOTH cases. BOTH cases should be reopened and thoroughly scrutinized in my opinion.

 

[time]

The homicide theory account takes running, jumping, riding on the scooter, riding on the dog, balancing on the soccer ball, etc; into account. It finds there is no explanation for Max's injuries other than physical assault:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/102202462/Max-Shacknai-Summary-of-Reports

The report you linked describes some back injuries as critical to the assumption of an assault.

In the autopsy report I provided earlier on page 9 (I just can't type it all out now), there are quite a few abrasions described as healing or scabbed on Max's back. I cannot see that his back injuries would have done any healing, but then again I am not a medical expert. I am wondering if these are different injuries than what they are talking a bout in this report. Some of those injuries are described as having a brown healing scab. However, there are others also report in the original autopsy.

Here is a sample:

TORSO:

On the mid thoracic back there is a vertically oriented 5 1/2 inch x 3/4 inch array of healing abrasions and thin, brown scabs. ... Also on the midline over the upper lumbar back there is a 1/14/ inch x 2/8 inch diameter brown, healing scab.

I am also a little perplexed at how they propose an assault scenario (saying it had to happen because of injuries he could not have sustained during the fall) and then proceed to say "He was either lifted over the banister or escaped over the banister." If he could have escaped from someone or a dog, let's say, then why couldn't he do that same thing without that being the case?

Furthermore, in one scenario they present Max as backing into the banister as the conclusion as he was escaping someone - why wouldn't any discussion of perhaps playing with the dog and the dog got exhuberant in there. And how do they magically come to the conclusion at the end that it was Rebecca who killed Max? Is Dr. Melinik qualified, as a pathologist, to make the sorts of comments on RZ having direct involvement? I have never heard of a pathologist doing this especially based on the things she cites int he report.

 

[time]

The homicide theory account takes running, jumping, riding on the scooter, riding on the dog, balancing on the soccer ball, etc; into account. It finds there is no explanation for Max's injuries other than physical assault:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/102202462/Max-Shacknai-Summary-of-Reports

Although it IS prosposed in your document link that Max could have just "escaped over the banister." :waitasec: I'm assuming while he had to be walking backwards - also based on what is in the document. That's all clear as mud.

 

[jjenny]

I find the last paragraph of the report to be bizarre. Dr. M wasn't provided with information on previous aggressive acts by Rebecca? Isn't it because there weren't any? Not a single person said anything about Rebecca having any violent tendencies as far as I can tell. Why put that into the report?

 

[screecher]

I bet Dr. M wasn't provided proof Jonah and his older children were NOT in the mansion too.

 

[freespeech]

Boy, my first thought is that I can't imagine taking a picture of my child in ICU, knowing that he or she was for all practical purposes already gone, let alone releasing it in a news extravaganza. I don't think the picture provides any evidence of some murder occurring and it just feels exploitative to me. My sister died in the hospital when she was 9, from a brain tumor. I wouldn't want pics of her like that in the family photos. So, my thought is, why were they taken in the first place?

Did Dina ever demand a second autopsy on Max?

BBM

That was my thought also when this first happened. I wondered why she didn't doggedly pursue answers in the beginning while the trail was still hot in the sense of bringing in private investigators and medical examiners right away while he was still alive or shortly after he died.

Did she ever even insist that Jonah keep that mansion absolutely intact for the investigation which would include the chandelier? If not, then why?

Also were her investigators allowed into the mansion to examine the scene? If so then how is this justified when the Zahaus were denied entry?

Imo, Dina seems to be still be blaming Rebecca for her divorce so she wants to defame her by blaming her for Max's death. This way she can show Rebecca as a thoroughly despicable child murdering monster who got what she deserved so no one should care about her.

I do perceive a pathological obsession on Dina's part for blaming Rebecca. Dina seems like she hated Rebecca.

Dina wouldn't want to be blamed for Rebecca's death without irrefutable proof so she should not likewise implicate Rebecca for Max's death. Also to prove Rebecca caused Max's injury wouldn't Dina have to absolutely prove where the other family members were at the time of his injury and this has not been done to my knowledge. This my opinion only.

 

[jjenny]

Although it IS prosposed in your document link that Max could have just "escaped over the banister." :waitasec: I'm assuming while he had to be walking backwards - also based on what is in the document. That's all clear as mud.

ITA. Why is it he could have escaped over the railing, but couldn't have fallen over the railing? His center of gravity would be the same in both scenarios.

 

[time]

I find the last paragraph of the report to be bizarre. Dr. M wasn't provided with information on previous aggressive acts by Rebecca? Isn't it because there weren't any? Not a single person said anything about Rebecca having any violent tendencies as far as I can tell. Why put that into the report?

I found that bizarre also because I'm not sure why a pathologist is pointing toward anyone who may have been involved in a possible homicide. Dr. Melinek is a member of the National Organization of Parents of Murdered Children. It seems odd, like some various things were picked out to put into the end of this report pointing towards Rebecca. I think it makes it look unprofessional. I believe at least in Rebecca's death that there should have been an extensive victimology report on her and everyone possibly connected to it should have had some extensive background investigation. In that sense, if there were any aggressive tendencies they would have come out on everyone. It appears like a low blow to make that statement about Rebecca at the end of t he report, like it insinuates since it wasn't there that she was guilty. Again, I think this is strange in light of Dina and Jonah's aggressive tendencies that are documented. I also do not see Rebecca saying that Dina is going to kill her as any indication that she did something to Max, I think she knew full well that Dina would come after her just for an accident and that Dina would not believe anything she said... that's why I'm not sure why they questioned her.

 

[time]

I find the last paragraph of the report to be bizarre. Dr. M wasn't provided with information on previous aggressive acts by Rebecca? Isn't it because there weren't any? Not a single person said anything about Rebecca having any violent tendencies as far as I can tell. Why put that into the report?

ITA. Why is it he could have escaped over the railing, but couldn't have fallen over the railing? His center of gravity would be the same in both scenarios.

IDK ... if he could have escaped then he could have done it by himself anyway and the motive doesn't matter nor does it matter if anyone else was involved, i.e., no one else had to be involved. To me it's as simple as that.

 

[i.b.nora]

We got a whiff of the beginning of this 'crusade' back in September of last year. I will have to find the thread and the post, and link to it here.

[ame="http://www.websleuths.com/forums/showpost.php?p=7098298&postcount=657"]Websleuths Crime Sleuthing Community - View Single Post - CA - Rebecca Nalepa - suicide or murder? #9[/ame]


Chasing.Halos wrote:

I have now been verified as an insider in this case.

Alright, here are the things I know. LE is aware of everything I am about to share. I just have some tidbits, nothing earth shattering lol.

-Some family members do not believe Max died accidentally. I will leave it at that. Dina has hired a private team to investigate in the hopes that LE reopens the case and believes Max was suffocated before the "fall."

-Since March of this year, Dina told Jonah she did not want Rebecca alone with Max. This is due to her getting "weird vibes" from Rebecca. A background check was performed on Rebecca that revealed things (I was not told what those things are nor will I prod about them).

-Jonah has an interesting past of having his ex wives/girlfriends boyfriends followed, investigated, photographed etc...

-Rebecca was forbidden to go to the hospital to visit Max.

I will share more as I learn more.

### End of post ###