Dina Shacknai wants Max's death reopened; gives ICU pic to media

[CuriousGeorgia]

Actually there are many testimonials all over the internet from friends, family and co-workers who praised Rebecca for her caring and kindness. She was very much loved by those who knew her. I'm sure that I am not alone in saying many 'strangers' have also come love both and Max and Rebecca from learning their story here on the internet. So yes, I may become sentimental and write a little poem from time to time. So what?

No there are not. Only in "comments", and those could have been written by you, right? I think is it telling that she did not seem to have even one close female friend...

 

[CuriousGeorgia]

But we know that Dina had a history of physical violence, and so did Jonah. That by the time RZ died, there were multiple relatives on the property, and Dina's whereabouts cannot be confirmed (nor can Jonah's). Simply stating the obvious.

JMO

And stating the untrue.

Physical violence? Hardly. Not even arrested. When Rebecca killed herself, Dina, Nina, and Jonah were accounted for - no matter how many times you lie and say they weren't. Adam was asleep.

 

[katydid23]

But we know that Dina had a history of physical violence, and so did Jonah. That by the time RZ died, there were multiple relatives on the property, and Dina's whereabouts cannot be confirmed (nor can Jonah's). Simply stating the obvious.

JMO

And you think that the investigators could not confirm their whereabouts? You think they were not questioned and checked for scratches and bruises and injuries? You don't think their cell phones were checked and their alibis scrutinized?

 

[MyBelle]

Statistically, CPR is actually not that effective. It's even less effective when used to treat children because typically cardiac arrest is the result of another injury.


"Abstract*
Purpose: Injury is the leading cause of cardiac arrest in children older than 1 year. Previous findings suggest that children who require cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) administered by paramedics for any reason rarely survive to hospital discharge. The authors evaluated the outcome of children sustaining cardiac arrest after blunt trauma in a Regional Pediatric Trauma Center. Methods: Children (age < 16) who underwent CPR in the field or in the emergency department (ED) after blunt trauma were identified from the trauma registry of a regional pediatric trauma center over a 3-year period (1997 to 2000). Patient demographics, rate of survival to discharge, factors influencing survival, and organ donation data were obtained from the trauma registry and medical record. Probability of survival (Ps) was calculated by TRISS analysis. Results: Twenty-five children were identified with a history of cardiac arrest after blunt injury (mean age; 3.3 years; range, 0.1 to 10; mean ISS, 30.7; range, 13-75; mean RTS, 1.58). Mean calculated Ps was 22.7%. However, only 2 (8%) survived. Death in the majority (91%) of the 23 patients who died occurred secondary to brain or spinal cord injury, and only 2 (9%) occurred as the result of exsanguinating hemorrhage. CPR was first performed in the field in 10 patients (40%), en route in 6 (24%), and in the ED in 9 (36%). Of the children who survived, both had vitals in the field, and CPR was administered initially in the ED. Mean length of ED resuscitation before death was 80 minutes. Of the children who died, organ donation occurred in only 3 (13%). The 2 survivors had no head injury and were discharged within 3 weeks of injury. Conclusions: Cardiopulmonary resuscitation after blunt injury in children rarely results in survival. The majority of deaths occur as a result of isolated intracranial injury and not exsanguinating hemorrhage. Although all children should receive aggressive resuscitation after injury, the need for CPR in the field portends a poor outcome. Furthermore, these data would suggest that prolonged or heroic efforts for children sustaining cardiac arrest in the field are not indicated. J Pediatr Surg 37:180-184. Copyright © 2002 by W.B. Saunders Company."




*

So what? Trained professionals are not trained to do absolutely nothing. Ethics are involved. RZ was a trained medical professional who had a duty to render aid and admitted she was present at the time of MS' injury. It is also a fact that trained paramedics did restore a heartbeat and the child lived several more days. It is an insult to him that you toss out useless statistics that suggest that CPR would have been a waste of time so why bother.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

But we know that Dina had a history of physical violence, and so did Jonah. That by the time RZ died, there were multiple relatives on the property, and Dina's whereabouts cannot be confirmed (nor can Jonah's). Simply stating the obvious.

JMO

You continue to toss out accusations with no basis in fact. No, I don't know that either parent had a history of physical violence and LE has cleared them in this case.

JMO

 

[Betty P]

You continue to toss out accusations with no basis in fact. No, I don't know that either parent had a history of physical violence and LE has cleared them in this case.

JMO

Their history of violence can be found in court records for their divorce. Both accused the other of violent behavior, citing numerous instances of assault.

 

[freespeech]

And you think that the investigators could not confirm their whereabouts? You think they were not questioned and checked for scratches and bruises and injuries? You don't think their cell phones were checked and their alibis scrutinized?

I don't believe those files were shared with the public yet. Aren't they under review with Anne Bremner and the Attorney General right now?

 

[IzzyBlanche]

Izzy, Izzy, the hospital doctors do not fear litigation because they did nothing wrong. There are federal laws that protect the communication between doctors and their patients/parents. In this case, the hospital called in LE. It is what it is. The doctors did nothing wrong and there will be no litigation against the doctors from the parents.

JMO

My Belle My Belle,

I believe you misunderstand me.

The hospital doctors would greatly fear litigation if they took the parents aside, with no other hospital staff present, as DS claims they did, and said they did not think Max's death happened as described.

Their job is to report their empirical observations, not speculate as to what did or did happen before the patient reached them. I've read many an emergency room report and have yet to see any such speculation. The terminology I read over and over is that the injury "is consistent" with such and such although it may sharply contradict the history and physical the parents provide. But I have never once read that the injury "is not consistent" with the story the parents provide.

The social workers' reports may be different. I have read few of those. But we are talking about the doctors.

The doctors know that although they did nothing wrong, any such speculative conversation with the parents would be an open invitation to subpoenas in future criminal or civil cases. And may subject the hospital itself to future criminal or civil cases, as outlandish as it may seem, but we live in a litigious age.

Which could in turn result in the hospital suspending that doctor's privilege to practice there.

All in all, then, I believe that reality is biased against this scenario happening as DS described. Then again, perhaps she left out a lot.

 

[katydid23]

You have no way of knowing this.

Although of course, she might have had help. There were lots of sympathetic relatives in town by then.

JMO

I have no way of knowing what? Are you saying that I have no way of knowing whether Jonah and Dina were interviewed after the cops found RZ hanging in their mansion? Are you kidding?

 

[MyBelle]

Their history of violence can be found in court records for their divorce. Both accused the other of violent behavior, citing numerous instances of assault.

Accusations are just that in divorces. He said/she said. Neither was ever charged and neither of them is a suspect in either death in this case. Your smear campaign against the child's parents has no merit whatsoever.

JMO

 

[MyBelle]

I don't believe those files were shared with the public yet. Aren't they under review with Anne Bremner and the Attorney General right now?

If the public hasn't received any investigative files pertaining to MS' death then neither has Ms. Bremner.

JMO

 

[katydid23]

I don't believe those files were shared with the public yet. Aren't they under review with Anne Bremner and the Attorney General right now?

It does not matter if they were shown to the public yet. The point is, a naked woman was found hanging in Jonah's backyard. He was OBVIOUSLY brought in for an interview and he was obviously scanned by the cops for any injuries/scratches/bruises.

And, because of the tragic incident that preceded RZ's hanging, they would have interviewed and 'inspected' Dina as well. It did not matter where she was. Some investigator from some agency would have met with her.

 

[MyBelle]

My Belle My Belle,

I believe you misunderstand me.

The hospital doctors would greatly fear litigation if they took the parents aside, with no other hospital staff present, as DS claims they did, and said they did not think Max's death happened as described.

Their job is to report their empirical observations, not speculate as to what did or did happen before the patient reached them. I've read many an emergency room report and have yet to see any such speculation. The terminology I read over and over is that the injury "is consistent" with such and such although it may sharply contradict the history and physical the parents provide. But I have never once read that the injury "is not consistent" with the story the parents provide.

The social workers' reports may be different. I have read few of those. But we are talking about the doctors.

The doctors know that although they did nothing wrong, any such speculative conversation with the parents would be an open invitation to subpoenas in future criminal or civil cases. And may subject the hospital itself to future criminal or civil cases, as outlandish as it may seem, but we live in a litigious age.

Which could in turn result in the hospital suspending that doctor's privilege to practice there.

All in all, then, I believe that reality is biased against this scenario happening as DS described. Then again, perhaps she left out a lot.

Izzy, Izzy. I am not stupid. I know--and everyone with an ounce of intelligence posting here knows--that doctors/hospitals do not fear litigation from parents who have a child injured by child abuse by another party.

It is laughable that you even suggest that the hospital would suspend a doctor's privilege's for discussing with parents his suspicions of child abuse.

JMO.

 

[freespeech]

If the public hasn't received any investigative files pertaining to MS' death then neither has Ms. Bremner.

JMO

Well if the files haven't been released then why not? They should be released for examination immediately!!!

 

[freespeech]

It does not matter if they were shown to the public yet. The point is, a naked woman was found hanging in Jonah's backyard. He was OBVIOUSLY brought in for an interview and he was obviously scanned by the cops for any injuries/scratches/bruises.

And, because of the tragic incident that preceded RZ's hanging, they would have interviewed and 'inspected' Dina as well. It did not matter where she was. Some investigator from some agency would have met with her.

Would have or did? Fact or speculation? Link please.

 

[katydid23]

Would have or did? Fact or speculation? Link please.

As you noted, I used the term 'would have.' You even underlined it. lol

 

[Gypsy Road]

Their history of violence can be found in court records for their divorce. Both accused the other of violent behavior, citing numerous instances of assault.

You are correct. And if I'm not mistaken - there were even pictures of Dina with bruises or scratches that she claimed were done by Mr. S. or something to that effect. It's been awhile since I've followed this case, but there were accusations that they were physical and also that Mr. S. would not call the dog off of Ms. S when the dog would attack Ms. S.

Sorry I do not have a link, but there are pictures of her scratches and bruises if you google.

 

[freespeech]

So what? Trained professionals are not trained to do absolutely nothing. Ethics are involved. RZ was a trained medical professional who had a duty to render aid and admitted she was present at the time of MS' injury. It is also a fact that trained paramedics did restore a heartbeat and the child lived several more days. It is an insult to him that you toss out useless statistics that suggest that CPR would have been a waste of time so why bother.

JMO

Are you serious here? ''...trained paramedics did restore a heartbeat..." using drugs and AED.

Did Rebecca have drugs and an AED?

The paramedics did not restart his heart until after 30 minutes of using drugs and electrical shock.

What are you saying? Rebecca should have started his heart in two minutes of CPR.

It's unbelievable that you persist with that. Why are you so desperate to believe that Rebecca did something wrong? Why do you need to blame her? What do you know about what really happen to her?

 

[katydid23]

According to interviews with cops, Jonah said he was notified by Rebecca on July 11, 2011, while he was at the gym, that Max had an accident. He immediately rushed home, and followed the ambulance to the hospital. "He returned to his residence on July 11, 2011 in the early evening hours to take a shower and pack some clothes. He returned to the hospital, and hasn't been back to his home in Coronado,' the docs state.

Jonah was interviewed again on July 15, 2011, two days after Rebecca's death and it&#8217;s stated that in the early morning hours of July 12, 2011, he stayed at the hospital until 1:55 a.m. At that time he left the hospital and tried to get a room at the Ronald McDonald House which is across the street, but was unable to get a room because they were full, so he checked into a nearby hotel.
Jonah returned to the hospital on July 12, 2011 between 5:30 and 6:00 a.m.

Dina was at Max's bedside when Jonah returned, but left shortly thereafter to go to her home in Coronado to get some sleep.

Dina returned to Rady Children's Hospital on July 12, 2011, at 6 p.m. in the evening. Rebecca, along with Jonah's brother Adam, came to the hospital that night, and picked up Jonah and his friend Howard. After dropping Jonah's friend off at the airport, Adam, Rebecca and Jonah went out to dinner. Jonah returned to the hospital at approximately 10 p.m.

When Jonah returned to the hospital, Dina was still at Max's bedside.
Rebecca and Adam went back to Jonah's mansion after dinner. "The only people at the residence from the evening hours on July 12, 2011 to the morning hours of July 13, 2011 were Rebecca and Adam," the search warrant affirms. Jonah left the hospital around 1 a.m. on July 13, 2011, and was able to get a room at the Ronald McDonald House. Dina stayed at the hospital for the entire night, according to the search warrant.

Jonah called Dina prior to his arrival at the hospital and notified her that Rebecca "had killed herself," the court docs state. Jonah returned to the hospital on July 13, 2011 at around 7:00 a.m., having just been notified via text message from his brother that his girlfriend was dead.




http://www.radaronline.com/exclusives/2011/09/rebecca-zahau-death-timeline-key-players

 

[katydid23]

Meanwhile, Jonah has been interviewed "extensively and exhaustively by law enforcement, about Max's death, and Rebecca's. Jonah has been extremely cooperative with authorities,...

http://www.radaronline.com/exclusiv...rother-adam-house-comfort-after-son-max-death