Discussion Thread #60 - 14.9.12 ~ the appeal~

[JudgeJudi]

“I felt a sense of terror rushing over me . . . . I believed that someone had entered my house. I was too scared to switch a light on.”

Well OP, Carl obviously doesn't buy your story of fearing for your life. At the top of his twitter page he has this ...

 

[IndianSummer]

This Oxford philosopher points out 2 Oscar lies that Nel could of hammered IMO

http://www.biznews.com/oscar-pistor...s-killer-lies-will-little-detail-nail-murder/
OP saying Reeva was still breathing (which is impossible according to the pathologist)
And I ALWAYS (from very beginning)thought it bizarre that he MOVED her body.
He altered the crime scene,FGS!
JMO

 

[Colin de France]

This Oxford philosopher points out 2 Oscar lies that Nel could of hammered IMO

http://www.biznews.com/oscar-pistor...s-killer-lies-will-little-detail-nail-murder/
OP saying Reeva was still breathing (which is impossible according to the pathologist)
And I ALWAYS (from very beginning)thought it bizarre that he MOVED her body.
He altered the crime scene,FGS!
JMO

"Bizarre" dépends on whether you have a criminal mind or not ? Moving the body downstairs towards the police is a way of manipulating and disarming an outright accusation there on the spot, it's also a way of gaining time and taking control, not very dissimilar from "the best form of defence is attack".

 

[Marfa Lights]

Happy New Year to everyone... I am still quite the newbie here on WS but occasionally feel compelled to post when something is bugging the hell out of me. Just read this piece in The Guardian from a couple of days ago and it made me wonder why we never heard (and why Nel never asked) more about the meeting Oscar had earlier on February 13th-- this is the meeting in which he apparently received some bad news and I believe it was in a 'What's App' message that Reeva tried to console him and reassure him what a great guy he really was and asked him if he might prefer to spend time with his family instead of coming home to her that evening.

It would seem to be so critical to his state of mind and could have easily been a contributing factor to his level of stress and tension that evening. Does anyone know any actual details about that meeting? Was there some reason Nel was not allowed to question Oscar or another potential witness about it?

Which also reminds me, I find it so odd that the psychological evaluations did not find Oscar suffered from Borderline Personality Disorder. Even to a layman like me, this would seem like a logical diagnosis especially as it can stem from an early childhood trauma such as his amputations. And apparently it is also significant when the childhood trauma occurs in the first year of life. Another trigger for the disorder involves the loss of a close personal relationship, such as the subsequent death of his mother, which could develop into expressions of "intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger." (Psychcentral.com, Child Anxiety Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder Symptoms, by Psych Central Staff, 2014)

BPD, despite its tentative-sounding name, seems to fit Oscar better than Narcissistic Personality Disorder or GAD-- particularly the sudden emotional flipping and the disproportionate rages. I think several WS members may have discussed experiences with BPD and the likelihood of Oscar having this disorder (my attempts to search the term on earlier Pistorius threads failed) but did the Weskoppies report or Dr. Merryl Vorster's testimony ever mention Borderline Personality Disorder?

See what you make of this statement from The Guardian article about Jaco van Vuuren, the pole vaulter acquaintance of Oscar's who is also an amateur courtroom artist:

Van Vuuren believes the Olympic runner’s version of events, but adds a new, intriguing twist. “The one thing’s that not mentioned in court, and we still don’t know why it’s not been brought up: he was as nervous as hell a week before that happened. He was on the track and I heard this from another Olympian who trained with him. He was as nervous as hell as if something was bound to happen.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/pistorius-track-mate-drawing-court-van-vuuren

Can't help but think Oscar might have been nervous about receiving bad news at this meeting on the 13th-- why don't we know the specifics of that meeting?

 

[Lux et Veritas]

For me, this was the most dramatic part of the entire trial. I'll never forget those 31 seconds. It was an eternity. I'm sure every single person watching around the world held their collective breaths. I can't help wondering if he was re-living that dreadful moment for the first time and his mind was in another place as he remembered her agonised screams.

It did seem like an eternity! I was honestly shocked, expecting him to spill his guts (silly me).

Only one of three things can explain that 31 second silence.

1) Nel’s in-your-face question slammed him like a ton of bricks, his one iota of conscience kicked in for a few unguarded seconds and memories flashed of Reeva’s “blood-curdling” screams.

2) Pure “poor me” theatrics (I “lost” my “beloved” because I “accidentally” pulled the trigger four times Waa.)

3) Both.

All terrible implications for OP.

The first gives the distinct impression he was RELIVING that very instant when she did scream (my belief).

The second paints him as a self-absorbed, cry-baby wuss, milking the Big Bad Prosecutor drama for all it was worth.

The third proves his calculating psychopathy.

If she didn’t scream, why the prolonged silence? He should have answered right away to staunchly maintain his ‘version’.

In my view, hesitation = open confession.

 

[Estelle]

Happy New Year to everyone... I am still quite the newbie here on WS but occasionally feel compelled to post when something is bugging the hell out of me. Just read this piece in The Guardian from a couple of days ago and it made me wonder why we never heard (and why Nel never asked) more about the meeting Oscar had earlier on February 13th-- this is the meeting in which he apparently received some bad news and I believe it was in a 'What's App' message that Reeva tried to console him and reassure him what a great guy he really was and asked him if he might prefer to spend time with his family instead of coming home to her that evening.

It would seem to be so critical to his state of mind and could have easily been a contributing factor to his level of stress and tension that evening. Does anyone know any actual details about that meeting? Was there some reason Nel was not allowed to question Oscar or another potential witness about it?

Which also reminds me, I find it so odd that the psychological evaluations did not find Oscar suffered from Borderline Personality Disorder. Even to a layman like me, this would seem like a logical diagnosis especially as it can stem from an early childhood trauma such as his amputations. And apparently it is also significant when the childhood trauma occurs in the first year of life. Another trigger for the disorder involves the loss of a close personal relationship, such as the subsequent death of his mother, which could develop into expressions of "intense abandonment fears and inappropriate anger." (Psychcentral.com, Child Anxiety Disorder, Borderline Personality Disorder Symptoms, by Psych Central Staff, 2014)

BPD, despite its tentative-sounding name, seems to fit Oscar better than Narcissistic Personality Disorder or GAD-- particularly the sudden emotional flipping and the disproportionate rages. I think several WS members may have discussed experiences with BPD and the likelihood of Oscar having this disorder (my attempts to search the term on earlier Pistorius threads failed) but did the Weskoppies report or Dr. Merryl Vorster's testimony ever mention Borderline Personality Disorder?

See what you make of this statement from The Guardian article about Jaco van Vuuren, the pole vaulter acquaintance of Oscar's who is also an amateur courtroom artist:

Van Vuuren believes the Olympic runner’s version of events, but adds a new, intriguing twist. “The one thing’s that not mentioned in court, and we still don’t know why it’s not been brought up: he was as nervous as hell a week before that happened. He was on the track and I heard this from another Olympian who trained with him. He was as nervous as hell as if something was bound to happen.”

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/pistorius-track-mate-drawing-court-van-vuuren

Can't help but think Oscar might have been nervous about receiving bad news at this meeting on the 13th-- why don't we know the specifics of that meeting?

Excellent post. I agree with everything you have said here. It makes complete sense that there must have been a trigger for OP's foul mood that night. IMO Reeva became the scapegoat. BPD can be comorbid with NPD.

About a third of people with BPD also have narcissistic personality disorder (NPD). People with NPD require a continual supply of admiration, special treatment, and confirmation of their superiority. A hallmark of the disorder is that they don’t have empathy for other people; that is, they can’t put themselves in another person’s place. To the person with NPD, other people are objects whose function is to meet their needs.
People with NPD may come off as quite charming and confident, even arrogant. They may overestimate their abilities and devalue yours. But don’t let that fool you. Narcissists are actually needier than most people, with low self-esteem and feelings of emptiness and worthlessness. If anyone crosses them or challenges them in any way, they feel empty, jealous, and angry.

http://www.bpdcentral.com/borderline-disorder/co-occurring-disorders/

 

[Marfa Lights]

Thanks, Estelle. I can see now that the two disorders are not mutually exclusive. Also just found your older post in response to Interested Bystander back at #1588 on this same topic of BPD.

Seems like the prosecution could have emphasized more his lack of impulse control... I believe there was a kernel of truth in Oscar's statement that "he did not think" before firing as he was in a blind rage.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Regarding the jeans outside the bathroom window.

I've been wondering about this too. One scenario could be: reeva attempts to put on the first pair of jeans in the bedroom. Oscar grabs them and throws them to the floor. She then grabs another pair from her bag and runs to the bathroom to put them on. Oscar follows her and grabs them off her again and throws them out of the bathroom window. She then runs to the toilet and locks herself in. He kicks the metal plate on the bath in anger and then rushes to get his gun.

Just a possibility.

Star, I think that is an excellent theory!

We know they bitterly fought, that she tried to get away from him by locking herself in the toilet.

She clearly wanted to LEAVE but found her escape route (bedroom door*) cut off.

What’s the first thing you do when you want to leave?

Get dressed and gather your stuff - fast.

It was no accident that not just one but two pairs of her jeans were found on the floor and outside.

Seriously, what are the chances that the normally neat and tidy Reeva had TWO pairs of jeans scattered about on the night she was murdered?

(If she had indeed simply left her jeans on the floor before getting into bed, wouldn’t she have left them on the left or right side of the bed, NOT at the foot of the bed? After changing into her 'pajamas' when she got home, wouldn't she place her jeans on the small sofa or place them in her overnight bag instead of dropping them at the foot of the bed?! Also very odd that OP’s grey t-shirt was found on the RIGHT side of the bed, even though he claims to have slept on the left side - as well as her slippers on the left when she supposedly slept on the right. Apparently, in Oscar’s version, clothes have a mysterious mind of their own.)

* Fascinating that OP testified he felt “vulnerable” and “trapped”, unable to escape through the locked bedroom doors (what, did he forget HE had the keys?! ... which also explains why Reeva couldn’t exit the bedroom). He was clearly speaking the truth - about Reeva’s lethal logistics, not his. Once again, a sociopath twisting the story to his advantage.

 

[IndianSummer]

"Bizarre" dépends on whether you have a criminal mind or not ? Moving the body downstairs towards the police is a way of manipulating and disarming an outright accusation there on the spot, it's also a way of gaining time and taking control, not very dissimilar from "the best form of defence is attack".

Amen.

 

[Colin de France]

Star, I think that is an excellent theory!

We know they bitterly fought, that she tried to get away from him by locking herself in the toilet.

She clearly wanted to LEAVE but found her escape route (bedroom door*) cut off.

What’s the first thing you do when you want to leave?

Get dressed and gather your stuff - fast.

It was no accident that not just one but two pairs of her jeans were found on the floor and outside.

Seriously, what are the chances that the normally neat and tidy Reeva had TWO pairs of jeans scattered about on the night she was murdered?

(If she had indeed simply left her jeans on the floor before getting into bed, wouldn’t she have left them on the left or right side of the bed, NOT at the foot of the bed? After changing into her 'pajamas' when she got home, wouldn't she place her jeans on the small sofa or place them in her overnight bag instead of dropping them at the foot of the bed?! Also very odd that OP’s grey t-shirt was found on the RIGHT side of the bed, even though he claims to have slept on the left side - as well as her slippers on the left when she supposedly slept on the right. Apparently, in Oscar’s version, clothes have a mysterious mind of their own.)

* Fascinating that OP testified he felt “vulnerable” and “trapped”, unable to escape through the locked bedroom doors (what, did he forget HE had the keys?! ... which also explains why Reeva couldn’t exit the bedroom). He was clearly speaking the truth - about Reeva’s lethal logistics, not his. Once again, a sociopath twisting the story to his advantage.

....If she was preparing to leave i find it hard to imagine that her jeans would still be on the balcony drying or on the garden having fallen off as discussed before, on the other hand i can quite easily see her using her jeans as a flag whilst screaming for help.............if the bedroom door was locked it was to keep her in, another reason for her to go to the bathroom window.....but this interferes with the "get the f out of my house" theory that it was really directed at RS and not the intruder.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

Jaco van Vuuren was the courtroom sketch artist during OP’s trial. He was formerly an international pole vaulter. Since 1992 he’s been coaching pole vaulters at the University of Pretoria, where his path first crossed with OP who was 16 at the time.

In early February 2013, he had a drink with OP to discuss helping the sprinter’s charity projects for amputees in Africa. At about 6.15am on Valentine’s Day he was woken by a phone call from a Beeld reporter who said, “Did you hear what your friend did?” Being sarcastic I said, “What friend, where?” He said, “No, Oscar’s shot his girlfriend”. On the track that day it was obviously a feeling of disbelief. It was indescribable. He trains there every day and he shot his girlfriend”.

Van Vuuren believes OP’s version of events, but adds a new, intriguing twist. “The one thing’s that not mentioned in court, and we still don’t know why it’s not been brought up: he was as nervous as hell a week before that happened. He was on the track and I heard this from another Olympian who trained with him. He was as nervous as hell as if something was bound to happen.” He believes there are secrets still to tell.

Van Vuuren, who hopes to sketch him in prison, relays a story he heard from a warden: “The biggest problem now for Oscar is the top brass at correctional services coming into his cell day and night and taking selfies with him. There’s no control and the lower ranks can’t chase them out, so Oscar is annoyed.”

Van Vuuren said Pistorius’s aunt called him recently because the 28-year-old wants to start sketching in his prison cell and is seeking tips.

“He takes it day by day. We have to know, whoever he is, whatever he did, he is probably a bigger survivor than all of us together, looking at what he went through in his life".

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/dec/31/pistorius-track-mate-drawing-court-van-vuuren

Once the dust settles, I'll bet there are plenty more secrets yet to come out.

IIRC, when OP was arrested for assaulting Cassidy Taylor-Memmory and taken to the police station, the SAPS were more interested in having their photo taken with him than dealing with the charge. So now he's in prison and the top brass want selfies with him????? The more things change, the more they stay the same.

BBM

Good buddy Jaco’s just another enabler, another self-interested Oscar apologist.

So, Oscar - comfy and safe in his own personal cell - is “annoyed” with all the selfies and wants to start sketching? (What happened to his humanitarian prison basketball team? :lol How many prisoners in general population would give their left nut and half of the right one for his kind of torturous prison life? Let’s talk about REAL survivor stories.

What, exactly, did OP “go through in his life”?

Prosthetics since babyhood? Never a problem, never an issue, never knew anything different. Certainly not all his family wealth, the exclusive boarding school, sports star status, fame and fortune, fast cars, fast women, jet-setting lifestyle.

Poor Oz - prison life simply mirrors his previous life of privilege, exclusivity and petty, rich-boy problems.

Yet he’s still lauded as some mythic, heroic survivor. LOL


p.s. I'll give Oscar a tip - STFU.

 

[Estelle]

It did seem like an eternity! I was honestly shocked, expecting him to spill his guts (silly me).

Only one of three things can explain that 31 second silence.

1) Nel’s in-your-face question slammed him like a ton of bricks, his one iota of conscience kicked in for a few unguarded seconds and memories flashed of Reeva’s “blood-curdling” screams.

2) Pure “poor me” theatrics (I “lost” my “beloved” because I “accidentally” pulled the trigger four times Waa.)

3) Both.

All terrible implications for OP.

The first gives the distinct impression he was RELIVING that very instant when she did scream (my belief).

The second paints him as a self-absorbed, cry-baby wuss, milking the Big Bad Prosecutor drama for all it was worth.

The third proves his calculating psychopathy.

If she didn’t scream, why the prolonged silence? He should have answered right away to staunchly maintain his ‘version’.

In my view, hesitation = open confession.

I have never understood why it was Nel who broke the silence. Surely most Prosecutors would wait for the respondent to answer.

 

[Estelle]

Thanks, Estelle. I can see now that the two disorders are not mutually exclusive. Also just found your older post in response to Interested Bystander back at #1588 on this same topic of BPD.

Seems like the prosecution could have emphasized more his lack of impulse control... I believe there was a kernel of truth in Oscar's statement that "he did not think" before firing as he was in a blind rage.

Lack of impulse control is a symptom of borderline personality disorder.

 

[Estelle]

Marfa Lights said:

Just read this piece in The Guardian from a couple of days ago and it made me wonder why we never heard (and why Nel never asked) more about the meeting Oscar had earlier on February 13th-- this is the meeting in which he apparently received some bad news and I believe it was in a 'What's App' message that Reeva tried to console him and reassure him what a great guy he really was and asked him if he might prefer to spend time with his family instead of coming home to her that evening.

It would seem to be so critical to his state of mind and could have easily been a contributing factor to his level of stress and tension that evening. Does anyone know any actual details about that meeting? Was there some reason Nel was not allowed to question Oscar or another potential witness about it?

OP told the High Court in Pretoria Steenkamp had slept over and when they woke up he left early because he had a meeting in Johannesburg and wanted to miss traffic. "I thought Reeva would go back to Johannesburg," he said. Pistorius said his meeting ended at noon and he called the estate agent. They met briefly to discuss documents and so the athlete could sign papers. After the meeting with the estate agent, Pistorius said he went to see his friend Justin Devaris. His girlfriend, who was a "very close friend" of Steenkamp later arrived. He was going to meet up with friends and suggested Devaris's girlfriend invite Steenkamp to join her at the movies.

http://www.timeslive.co.za/local/2014/04/08/the-oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-day-18

READING BETWEEN THE LINES:

OP's state of mind on February 13 could have been affected by the fact that he had not declared a property he bought worth 677, 856 pounds after he had been forced to declare his assets in his bail application. In May 2013, he was fined 69,169 pounds for unpaid taxes. It appears that he could have left home very early on 13 Feb, 2013 to see his Accountant about the purchase of this house. Perhaps it was the settlement date as there was talk that he bought this property in December, 2013. Assuming the meeting began at 9am, he must have been there for three hours as it ended at 12 noon. He then phoned his real estate agent to discuss the documents and sign papers.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/world-news/oscar-pistorius-murder-trial-athlete-1915453

Can anyone find any more information about this meeting please and how it could have affected his state of mind?

I also read once that he went to a one year party of a real estate agent's business that afternoon and it was suspected that he wanted to return to it later after he saw Reeva hence he did not park his car in the garage. I posted on this in 2013 but cannot find it now. I have always been curious of OP's movements that day and I doubt we will ever know the truth. But something led to his negative state of mind that night and Reeva could have been the scapegoat.

 

[Colin de France]

"Bizarre" dépends on whether you have a criminal mind or not ? Moving the body downstairs towards the police is a way of manipulating and disarming an outright accusation there on the spot, it's also a way of gaining time and taking control, not very dissimilar from "the best form of defence is attack".

......but it's also another way of camouflaging a previous violent episode.

 

[Marfa Lights]

Still curious about the bad news Oscar received at that meeting on February 13 and wanted to provide a copy of the 'What's App' messages back and forth between Reeva and Oscar from that date.

This excerpt in bold italics below is from: www.juror13lw.wordpress.com/2014/04/07/oscar-trial-day17-oscar/

We are now up to the text messages for FEBRUARY 13

Reeva had spent the night before.

10:08am RS to OP – Good luck today baba let me know how things go
OP to RS – Thanks angel

(Oscar had a meeting in Johannesburg that day with a financial advisor)

RS to OP – Baba I hope you don’t mind but I came back to the house to work a bit and do some washing. It will help me a lot to get stuff done and relieve some stress. I’ll go through to Joburg at like 3pm.

RS to OP – It’s a difficult thing to try to console you baba because it’s a ****** thing and you’re a nice guy. I guess these things happen and we can just hope they work out for the best. You are an amazing person with so many blessings and you are more than cared for. Your health and future monetary blessings far outweigh this hurdle I can promise u that.

(Oscar says this message had to do with the financial meeting he had that morning)

OP to RS – Thank you my angel, you don’t have to my angel. Stay tonight if you’d like.

(Oscar says this means he was telling her she didn’t need to go to Johannesburg, she could stay at his place)

OP to RS – I’m just finishing off at Ryan

(this was another meeting that he had that day)

RS to OP – Thank you baba. Let me know if you’d like to spend time with M or Carl. I’m sure you maybe feel like some family tonight.

RS to OP – Angel I’m going to go home at like 6pm. Please stay and do what it is you were going to do.

Estelle reports in her post above that this very well could have involved unpaid taxes on some other real estate Oscar owned. This makes sense given he was about to buy the new house in Johannesburg and would need to clean up any outstanding real estate taxes-- particularly if the other property might have been used as collateral.

I guess having to pay a penalty on past due taxes can be considered a "****** thing" but you have to wonder if this would rise to the level of Reeva thinking he might need additional consolation from other family members. Seems like a lot of coddling coming from Reeva just over an unpaid tax bill and fine-- but then again, this is Oscar, and he is without doubt high maintenance emotionally.

People have also speculated that the "hurdle" Reeva mentioned could be related to the assault charges and claim for damages filed by Cassidy Taylor-Memmory (a four-year long legal battle that was ultimately settled out of court sometime in February of 2014 right before his trial began in March 2014.)

Many have wondered what could be the motive for shooting Reeva, and I suspect if Oscar was already having difficulty controlling his anger and disappointment at the outcome of this meeting, then it would not take much to set him off in an uncontrolled rage.

Like so many women in his life, Taylor-Memmory looks an awful lot like Reeva (in type, at least). Not hard to imagine how someone like Oscar could possibly transfer his anger at Cassidy Taylor-Memmory to any perceived slight from Reeva that night. I find it so significant too that he was engaged in an unusually long phone conversation with his ongoing ex, Jenna aka 'Babyshoes' Edkins, when he arrived home that evening. Sounds like he had a long standing habit of turning to her when things got difficult for him.

This was no normal evening of yoga and hot tea for Reeva and Oscar.

 

[soozieqtips]

I have never understood why it was Nel who broke the silence. Surely most Prosecutors would wait for the respondent to answer.

BIB - I've never understood that either. Maybe Masipa was giving Nel the evil eye or something, I don't know. But if Nel had just let the silence go on until it was broken by the killer himself, perhaps OP might have eventually said something incriminating.

 

[JudgeJudi]

As the bail hearing wasn't live streamed, I thought you may be interested in reading a selection of tweets.

08:25 - Oscar Pistorius family member controlling who gets to sit in a public gallery.

10:24 - Roux: His case is she was shot through the bathroom door. Why would you then break open the door?

10:25 - Roux suggests that Pistorius broke toilet door to get to Reeva, to help not harm her.

10:26 - Pistorius breaks down uncontrollably now as his defence suggests he did not know it was Reeva behind [the] bathroom door, tweets @AlexCrawfordSky.

10:38 - Nel: "I walk seven metres, I see a bathroom door, I shoot... The motive is to kill."

10:48 – Nel: Planning is - I ready myself, I get a gun, I make it ready to fire and I walk there to shoot.

Pistorius: I went out on balcony and heard a noise in the bathroom. I felt a "sense of terror" rush through me.

14:04 - Pistorius: Because I did not have my legs on I felt vulnerable. I fired shots through the bathroom door and told Reeva to call police.

Pistorius: I tried to revive Reeva but she died in my arms. "I am mortified."

14:06 Opened toilet door and Reeva was alive. I took her to bathroom, called Netcare, picked her up and went downstairs.

Pistorius: With the benefit of hindsight I realise that Reeva went to the bathroom when I went to close the balcony door.

14:14 - Roux reading statement from 'Alex', a close friend. "He always used to tell me how he liked a girl." It was no holds barred. [Alex Pilakoutas is one of OP’s inner circle of friends]

14:21 - Divaris: They were both taking it slowly as they had come out of previous relationships... They really complemented each other. [Yet OP rang Reeva all the time and she commented to Gina that he was stalking her (as appears on her Facebook page)]

14:23 - Divaris: Oscar would often tell me how much he loved Reeva and she was a fantastic person who understood him. She could be 'the one'. [How very odd that OP would say that to Divaris yet never told Reeva]

14:33 - Roux reading statement from Graham, a lifelong friend of Pistorius. We exchanged WhatsApp messages about cars on 13 February, tweets David Smith.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/anto...nsoek-hofsaak-19-feb-2013-1/10151307082580994

 

[JudgeJudi]

10:22 - Botha: We asked to have the safes open. There was a specific safe in the kitchen but no key, so they brought a locksmith to open it.

10:22 - Botha: "[Pistorius]'s lawyer came to the house with a locksmith to open a safe in the kitchen. It had a USB stick with details of offshore accounts."

10:27 - Botha: "Pistorius had an unlicensed .38mm pistol in a safe in his bedroom. He had a license for the 9mm pistol used in the shooting."

10:40 - Nel asks Botha if shots were fired directly at toilet basin and he agrees. "If you fire straight at the door, you miss the toilet."

11:05 - Barry Bateman tweets: [Pistorius] didn't disclose foreign property or bank accounts in [his] statement. Botha believes he's a flight risk. [OP doesn’t own foreign property]

11:59 - Nel asks what happens to the memory stick with details of offshore accounts on it. "It's still in their possession," Botha says.

Barry Bateman tweets: "Oldwage is smiling from ear to ear, looking smug. [Defence lawyer] Roux having a go - Botha confirms Oscar said on scene issue of burglar."

12:09 - Roux [trying to] show that the shooter was standing in the passage [to align with Oscar's version].

12:10 Botha: But three of the cartridges were found in [the] bathroom, only one [was found] in [the] hallway.

Roux: Did witness say she heard it was Pistorius or Steenkamp talking between 2 and 3am? Botha: She did not. It sounded like an argument.

12:13 Botha: Witness heard "two to three" shots, saw lights on, then 17 minutes later heard "two to three" more shots.

Pistorius bent forward, sobbing furiously, his whole body shaking hard, says David Smith.

12:38 - Roux points out that the security guard that Oscar Pistorius spoke to on the phone heard him crying after he forgot to put the phone down.

13:46 - Roux: Did you take steps to establish the owner of the ammunition? Botha: No. Roux: It was his being stored [for his father]. [Was Roux aware that OP was going to plead not guilty to this? If so, why did he allow it? Judge Greenland said as the ammo was his father’s, he couldn’t have stored it legally … but Masipa has no problem with this. Hakuna matata - Swahili for no worries]

13:56 - Roux: I can put it as a fact to you that there was no female screaming... You cannot connect it as a fact to that house. Botha: The statement says there was screaming. (OP's lip begins quivering). [I bet it did. Surprised he didn’t draw blood]

14:00 - Karyn Maughan ?tweets: Carl Pistorius turns back and looks straight at his brother. He smiles.

Roux: There is however an account that he forgot about in Brunswick, Carolina. A dormant account set up in 2002.

14:04 - Roux: That [offshore] account is not the account of the applicant and he can't draw money from it. Botha: That could be possible.

14:07 - Roux: When you were in the house you were walking without protective shoes? Botha: Yes. It was not deliberate. Roux suggests that Botha contaminated the scene.

14:08 - Botha: I went out and there were no more feet covers left. Roux: There was a complaint and you had to rectify that.

14:13 - Prosecutor Nel to Roux: He never offered, 'I want to show you what happened?' Anger in gallery, someone objects: "He was traumatised."

14:14 - Nel: But there was an opportunity to give a version during a warning statement? Botha: Yes that is true.

14:17 - Botha: When Oscar Pistorius answered phone call from security guards, he said "I'm alright" and started crying.

Nel: Were [Pistorius’s defence] keen to get to the memory stick? Botha: Yes, it seemed as though they were. Were looking until they found it.

https://www.facebook.com/notes/anto...nsoek-hofsaak-19-feb-2013-1/10151307082580994

Day 3 - Continued on the following link:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/anto...borgaansoek-dag-3-2-vervolg/10151308549445994

Unfortunately I’ve been unable to find anything further.

 

[Lux et Veritas]

I've reached the point where I believe both brothers have a death wish. OP is prepared to drive twice the legal limit even after his boat crash, and Carl is a sandwich short of a picnic. Just read this:

Carl Pistorius ‏@carlpistorius
This year is going to be MASSIVE for us @Lysle_Turner @Phill_Cruize! Lysle... we'll have 2 rename from Lyslo to SUPERNOVA ��.
#bandofbrothers

Carl Pistorius ‏@carlpistorius
The mountaineer is @Lysle_Turner, he's invited me on his Everest 4 HD climb. Stil can't feel my legs, but @Phill_Cruize can get me in shape

He's got to be out of his mind. I know he's summited Mt Kili but if he thinks that's like climbing Everest he's got another think coming. He can't feel his legs!!!! and he's going in 3 months!!!!! Maybe it’s a case of big-noting and he’ll only go as far as the lowest base camp. I can't imagine in my wildest dreams that his doctors would approve of such an undertaking. Not only is he putting his own life at risk but what about his companions. Oh, that’s right, others don’t matter. Just like the other person involved in his car accident.

STILL no word about that other driver. Still no word on the results of Carl’s breath test. Still no word from the SAPS as to who was at fault. Speculation ... Carl was at fault. Why? Because the next thing we hear is that Arnold’s rhino horns go missing from that large walk-in safe and STILL no word on that. Totally unbelievable.

Carl's accident was on August 2. Approx. 7 weeks later Arnold had his rhino horns stolen. News of this surfaced on October 6. How very convenient that we've heard nothing further about either incident. Those rhino horns would be worth more than enough to buy silence and compensation. I'm afraid that when it comes to this family, I don't believe in coincidences. They lie, steal and cover up anything and everything to protect the family name and they have the power, will, influence and money to do pretty much as they please. One imagines they have plenty of rugs in Arnold's home with all the dirt that has to be swept underneath them. :tantrum:

BBM

Another 100% self-absorbed rich boy with way more ego than brains.

Unfettered, unaccountable money and power does terrible things to the human psyche, families, governments. All too often, it not only warps priorities and crushes empathy in favor of sociopathic self-interest, but one can buy ones own “truth” via targeted, carefully calculated press releases, i.e. propaganda. Control the message - control “reality”.

If the Pistorius boys have a death wish, so far they’re failing miserably - everyone around them is at risk.

Oscar ... 1 dead woman 2013
Carl ...... 1 dead woman 2008; 1 dead man 2014?? (Who knows? The auto accident simply disappeared from the news.)

“There are no updates available other than that Carl is out of danger. ... The family won’t be issuing further statements on this matter as they really do not want to comment.”
- Anneliese Burgess, family spokesperson
http://citizen.co.za/224002/carl-pistorius-charged-accident/

Yes, I’m sure the family didn’t want to comment LOL - the less said the better when one is trying to downplay or erase something damning or embarrassing from the public sphere.

To my knowledge, Carl has NEVER uttered one single word about the other driver, Mr. Tshabalala.

Extremely suspicious for someone who loves to splash his life and feel-good religion all over the Twitterverse.

Whether the other guy is dead or alive, sure sounds like he, his family, the cops and/or the media were paid off big time.

Like Reeva’s “silence” - and Oscar’s infamous 31 seconds on the stand - silence sometimes screams.