Discussions on Formal Sentencing Hearing - Jodi Arias #2
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alwaysonmymind
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oceanblueeyes
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Today has been a day of sadness, many tears, anger, and calmness at the same time.
It is hard to swallow the realization that Travis was so close to receiving the justice he deserved to have but in another way it is heartwarming to know 11 good and decent people stood up for good and against evil. If only this trial had been tried in a state where the majority vote rules. And that is what we and the Alexander family are left with. 'If only."
I respectfully don't agree that there was nothing JSS could have done about the stealth juror. This isn't the only death penalty case where this same issue has come to the forefront. Jurors bringing in outside evidence to use and discuss in the deliberation room has always been a no no yet this juror was allowed and I do think the other jurors told JSS the full story in the note to her. So she did have recourse. She had two alternates left and that is one of the reasons there are alternates to begin with. Some jurors may have personal issues that cause them to have to leave but some also may be guilty of jury misconduct. All JSS had to do is make sure the record for the removal was clearly transcribed just like other death penalty Judges have done in the past to protect the record. There have even been instances where the jury Foreman has been booted due to refusing to deliberate. JSS would have no reason to believe on Thursday afternoon that they were leaning one way or the other as a whole. It shows at the very beginning juror #17 was a problem. Even when they tried to engage her in deliberations she said very little and nothing to support her viewpoint. That is not deliberating. That is cutting oneself off and refusing just a few hours after deliberations started. If she had this attitude then it is obvious she kept it throughout.
I don't mind anyone sticking to what they believe in but being a butt and refusing even to support or explain the reasons why they think the way they do is not deliberating. Its being a stubborn
. IMO.
So imo, yes, JSS could have legally removed this juror and she should have done so. She is a Judge and is no different from any other DP Judge who has removed other jurors for refusing to deliberate or jurors who brought in to the discussion things that shouldn't have been discussed.
In fact its far fetched to think all 11 were lying and this one jury was telling the truth. I don't think they had anything against this woman personally but they were there to do their civic duty and she was the boulder sitting right in the middle blocking the just punishment from happening because of plain hard headedness.
JSS had the evidence to back up her ruling. Bringing things into the deliberation room that did not come from the witness stand has always been seen as jury misconduct or looking at things on line during the trial or deliberations. Since JSS had this complaint all she had to do is check out this woman's social sites to see if there was anything untoward found that may substantiate the biases the jury said she held. The only time I ever see the word 'revenge' referring to the death penalty is by staunch anti-death penalty people. In fact I think that word usage has been used here occasionally. That within itself should have thrown up a giant red flag for JSS to see.
But in the end what is so heartwarming is how these 11 intelligent people weren't fooled by JA nor her bag of experts and DT.
I knew once the case got going they would come to like Juan and know with him there is truth. They relied on him to cut through the BS and he did.
God bless these 11 who tried so hard to give Travis' murderer the only just punishment she should have received. I hope somehow and in someway this is comforting to the Alexander family. Tanisha is right :heart:...........JA will have to face who really counts come judgment day and there wont be a stealth juror sitting in judgment then to give her a pass. The worst is yet to come for the woman who slaughtered a kind and decent young man.
I have come to love you Travis and what you stood for and your siblings are some of the most amazing people I have ever seen. They were so proud of you and I can see why. You will never be forgotten and will always be missed. You made such a positive difference in this world the short time you were here on Earth. Rest in peace.
IMO
It is hard to swallow the realization that Travis was so close to receiving the justice he deserved to have but in another way it is heartwarming to know 11 good and decent people stood up for good and against evil. If only this trial had been tried in a state where the majority vote rules. And that is what we and the Alexander family are left with. 'If only."
I respectfully don't agree that there was nothing JSS could have done about the stealth juror. This isn't the only death penalty case where this same issue has come to the forefront. Jurors bringing in outside evidence to use and discuss in the deliberation room has always been a no no yet this juror was allowed and I do think the other jurors told JSS the full story in the note to her. So she did have recourse. She had two alternates left and that is one of the reasons there are alternates to begin with. Some jurors may have personal issues that cause them to have to leave but some also may be guilty of jury misconduct. All JSS had to do is make sure the record for the removal was clearly transcribed just like other death penalty Judges have done in the past to protect the record. There have even been instances where the jury Foreman has been booted due to refusing to deliberate. JSS would have no reason to believe on Thursday afternoon that they were leaning one way or the other as a whole. It shows at the very beginning juror #17 was a problem. Even when they tried to engage her in deliberations she said very little and nothing to support her viewpoint. That is not deliberating. That is cutting oneself off and refusing just a few hours after deliberations started. If she had this attitude then it is obvious she kept it throughout.
I don't mind anyone sticking to what they believe in but being a butt and refusing even to support or explain the reasons why they think the way they do is not deliberating. Its being a stubborn
. IMO. So imo, yes, JSS could have legally removed this juror and she should have done so. She is a Judge and is no different from any other DP Judge who has removed other jurors for refusing to deliberate or jurors who brought in to the discussion things that shouldn't have been discussed.
In fact its far fetched to think all 11 were lying and this one jury was telling the truth. I don't think they had anything against this woman personally but they were there to do their civic duty and she was the boulder sitting right in the middle blocking the just punishment from happening because of plain hard headedness.
JSS had the evidence to back up her ruling. Bringing things into the deliberation room that did not come from the witness stand has always been seen as jury misconduct or looking at things on line during the trial or deliberations. Since JSS had this complaint all she had to do is check out this woman's social sites to see if there was anything untoward found that may substantiate the biases the jury said she held. The only time I ever see the word 'revenge' referring to the death penalty is by staunch anti-death penalty people. In fact I think that word usage has been used here occasionally. That within itself should have thrown up a giant red flag for JSS to see.
But in the end what is so heartwarming is how these 11 intelligent people weren't fooled by JA nor her bag of experts and DT.
I knew once the case got going they would come to like Juan and know with him there is truth. They relied on him to cut through the BS and he did.
God bless these 11 who tried so hard to give Travis' murderer the only just punishment she should have received. I hope somehow and in someway this is comforting to the Alexander family. Tanisha is right :heart:...........JA will have to face who really counts come judgment day and there wont be a stealth juror sitting in judgment then to give her a pass. The worst is yet to come for the woman who slaughtered a kind and decent young man.
I have come to love you Travis and what you stood for and your siblings are some of the most amazing people I have ever seen. They were so proud of you and I can see why. You will never be forgotten and will always be missed. You made such a positive difference in this world the short time you were here on Earth. Rest in peace.
IMO
I anticipate that she will start manipulating for a reduced sentence..... some revelation such as promising to give the Alexanders the 'truth' about what happened in return for a softer term.. Of course JSS will let her explain all this in secret. No media or public will be privy to this, since she feels in jeopardy, even though she is in a virtual fortress when she testifies!
kimi_SFC
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Juror #4 Interview by Phone Nancy Grace on HLN (5Mar15) - Transcription:
NG: Sir, thank you so much for being with us. I think I've got Juror #4 on the phone, Sir are you with us?
Juror #4 (J4): Yes, I'm here. I apologize.
NG: That's ok.
J4: I'm a little shaken up.
NG: I wanna thank you so much for being with us. And having lived through many many jury trials, I was always very shaken inside. I don't know if it showed on the outside, but with the emotion of the jury trial, the reading of the verdict. When I would have verdicts, I would have to read them as the prosecutor out loud and publish them in the courtroom, in public. I would, I understand that you're still shaky. What do you mean by that? That you're still shaky?
J4: The emotion is just overflowing. I, ah, it's hard to deal with... having tried your hardest for so long to persuade someone to agree with you. And it was painful in that courtroom, you know (voice breaking)? Just listening to the family wail and cry while we had to sit there as a group even though we were mostly in favor of capital punishment. To sit there and have it represented that as if we were hung, and Jodi was gonna.... get away with it.... (Inaudible) ...and not get capital punishment. It was.... It's tough.
NG. Well especially, everyone, with me is Juror #4. This verdict has just come down. This announcement. Let me rephrase. The announcement is, "The Jury hung." It was 11-1 for the death penalty, and with me, from inside that jury deliberation room is Juror #4. Sir, when you said that, "She'll walk, but no not really walk." Actually under the law in AZ, she, there's a possibility she can walk free in 25 years. And that must've been like salt in the wound to the jury!
J4: Yeah, yeah, it was tough. And, you know, when we were in deliberations, we brought that up. We're like, if we don't put forth the right judgment, if we're not all in agreement, there's a chance she can get out in her early 50's. I mean, that's like a whole life to live after that. So, what punishment is it really if she were only to get that? And...
NG: You know, Sir, one of the things...
J4: It just fuels the fire.
NG: ... that had me so upset, and I don't know if you on this jury got to hear this, but the forensic evidence shows that after Travis Alexander was attacked and he was in the throes of death, he stumbled out of the shower and he went to his mirror, his bathroom mirror. And there, all on the sink, all over the vanity, he stood there, bleeding to death, he looked at his own image in the mirror. He saw himself dying. I can't get that image out of my head, Sir.
J4: (sighs heavily) Yeah, it was tough (voice breaking). We had to go through all those images over and over again in the deliberation room, and we ah, it was a last ditch effort, we put all of the pictures down, of all the blood, and the shower, and Travis' body, and we tried...again to come out with a unanimous decision. And I don't understand, it's hard to process - excuse me - for me to understand....how those, that that aggravating circumstances that we were looking at, that we had spread out, all across the jury table (voice quivering), how that
NG: You know....
J4: ...could not weigh enough for capital punishment. It just boggles my mind.
NG: And for everyone on the jury, when you think about Travis Alexander. Not what Jodi Arias said about him, trying to drag him through the mid and smear his name, you know, after his death. But everyone has a son or a brother, a father a husband, but especially people with a son, to think that you pour all your love, all your dreams, all your effort, all your money, all your energy, to raise your child for someone like Jodi Arias to come along and cut his life short. It's just overwhelming to me. Because when I look at Travis Alexander, he is a mother's son. Just, cut down in the prime of his life like that. When you showed these pictures to the holdout, would she even deliberate? Is it true she had watched the Lifetime movie about Jodi Arias?
J4: (heavy sigh) She had said she had seen bits and pieces of the movie, yeah. Yes.
NG: well, you know that right there...
J4: Ummm... (Crosstalk)
NG: ....that alone would have been enough to get her thrown out of the jury deliberations. Actually you're seeing what Juror #4 is talking about right now (screen showing images from Lifetime Movie). That is the Lifetime movie about Jodi Arias, and if you've even see bits and schmidges of this movie, then I'm.... Aif you've lied about it in Voir Dire, and said you didn't see it, or said you didn't know anything about it, that's a reason to be thrown off the jury. Do you think the judge knew that, Juror #4?
J4: I think the judge knew that because we sent in questionnaire, or not a questionnaire, but a question form for the judge, letting her know that this lady who was holding out mentioned it to the whole group, you know. She wasn't even trying to conceal it. She mentioned it to the whole group, that she had seen bits and pieces of the movie. And so we thought, as a jury, as a whole, that that was essential material, essential information that the judge had to know. So we put it down on paper, and let the judge know.
NG: With me is a very special guest, it's Juror #4. Sir, I've got so many questions for you. Please stay with me.
(joined by Sky Highes)
----- end of 1st segment
I apologize in advance for any errors
It's slow going so thanks for your patience (I'm too impatient to wait for NG's transcript page to be updated
tomorrow
:blushing:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
NG: Sir, thank you so much for being with us. I think I've got Juror #4 on the phone, Sir are you with us?
Juror #4 (J4): Yes, I'm here. I apologize.
NG: That's ok.
J4: I'm a little shaken up.
NG: I wanna thank you so much for being with us. And having lived through many many jury trials, I was always very shaken inside. I don't know if it showed on the outside, but with the emotion of the jury trial, the reading of the verdict. When I would have verdicts, I would have to read them as the prosecutor out loud and publish them in the courtroom, in public. I would, I understand that you're still shaky. What do you mean by that? That you're still shaky?
J4: The emotion is just overflowing. I, ah, it's hard to deal with... having tried your hardest for so long to persuade someone to agree with you. And it was painful in that courtroom, you know (voice breaking)? Just listening to the family wail and cry while we had to sit there as a group even though we were mostly in favor of capital punishment. To sit there and have it represented that as if we were hung, and Jodi was gonna.... get away with it.... (Inaudible) ...and not get capital punishment. It was.... It's tough.
NG. Well especially, everyone, with me is Juror #4. This verdict has just come down. This announcement. Let me rephrase. The announcement is, "The Jury hung." It was 11-1 for the death penalty, and with me, from inside that jury deliberation room is Juror #4. Sir, when you said that, "She'll walk, but no not really walk." Actually under the law in AZ, she, there's a possibility she can walk free in 25 years. And that must've been like salt in the wound to the jury!
J4: Yeah, yeah, it was tough. And, you know, when we were in deliberations, we brought that up. We're like, if we don't put forth the right judgment, if we're not all in agreement, there's a chance she can get out in her early 50's. I mean, that's like a whole life to live after that. So, what punishment is it really if she were only to get that? And...
NG: You know, Sir, one of the things...
J4: It just fuels the fire.
NG: ... that had me so upset, and I don't know if you on this jury got to hear this, but the forensic evidence shows that after Travis Alexander was attacked and he was in the throes of death, he stumbled out of the shower and he went to his mirror, his bathroom mirror. And there, all on the sink, all over the vanity, he stood there, bleeding to death, he looked at his own image in the mirror. He saw himself dying. I can't get that image out of my head, Sir.
J4: (sighs heavily) Yeah, it was tough (voice breaking). We had to go through all those images over and over again in the deliberation room, and we ah, it was a last ditch effort, we put all of the pictures down, of all the blood, and the shower, and Travis' body, and we tried...again to come out with a unanimous decision. And I don't understand, it's hard to process - excuse me - for me to understand....how those, that that aggravating circumstances that we were looking at, that we had spread out, all across the jury table (voice quivering), how that
NG: You know....
J4: ...could not weigh enough for capital punishment. It just boggles my mind.
NG: And for everyone on the jury, when you think about Travis Alexander. Not what Jodi Arias said about him, trying to drag him through the mid and smear his name, you know, after his death. But everyone has a son or a brother, a father a husband, but especially people with a son, to think that you pour all your love, all your dreams, all your effort, all your money, all your energy, to raise your child for someone like Jodi Arias to come along and cut his life short. It's just overwhelming to me. Because when I look at Travis Alexander, he is a mother's son. Just, cut down in the prime of his life like that. When you showed these pictures to the holdout, would she even deliberate? Is it true she had watched the Lifetime movie about Jodi Arias?
J4: (heavy sigh) She had said she had seen bits and pieces of the movie, yeah. Yes.
NG: well, you know that right there...
J4: Ummm... (Crosstalk)
NG: ....that alone would have been enough to get her thrown out of the jury deliberations. Actually you're seeing what Juror #4 is talking about right now (screen showing images from Lifetime Movie). That is the Lifetime movie about Jodi Arias, and if you've even see bits and schmidges of this movie, then I'm.... Aif you've lied about it in Voir Dire, and said you didn't see it, or said you didn't know anything about it, that's a reason to be thrown off the jury. Do you think the judge knew that, Juror #4?
J4: I think the judge knew that because we sent in questionnaire, or not a questionnaire, but a question form for the judge, letting her know that this lady who was holding out mentioned it to the whole group, you know. She wasn't even trying to conceal it. She mentioned it to the whole group, that she had seen bits and pieces of the movie. And so we thought, as a jury, as a whole, that that was essential material, essential information that the judge had to know. So we put it down on paper, and let the judge know.
NG: With me is a very special guest, it's Juror #4. Sir, I've got so many questions for you. Please stay with me.
(joined by Sky Highes)
----- end of 1st segment
I apologize in advance for any errors
It's slow going so thanks for your patience (I'm too impatient to wait for NG's transcript page to be updated
tomorrow
:blushing:
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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Went and looked on the JA site. All I can say is what a bunch of classy people. Not.
I'm way behind here; I was stuck at work until 1:30pm E.T. and by then the you know what had hit the fan, so I've had to skip a lot. I know a lot of people hold JSS responsible for this, at least to a degree, and they are probably right. I certainly don't think she was at all helpful to the process as a whole, yet that's exactly what she should have been. I think at most (but not all) of the points she could have been helpful (and I mean to the process, not to one side or the other) she was a complete failure.
Having said that, it looks like 11 voted for the DP, and they did so early, and that the one holdout was not going to change her vote, no matter what.
So in spite of all the unethical, dishonest, spiteful, biased and cruel tactics of the defense, and the loose, disorganized, disrespectful, interminable and inconsiderate climate of JSS's courtroom, 11 of the 12 jurors saw through it all to the truth, endured it all for the truth, and answered it all with the truth.
So in spite of the legal ramifications of the one holdout. I rate the final score:
Truth: 11
Falsehood: 1
Having said that, it looks like 11 voted for the DP, and they did so early, and that the one holdout was not going to change her vote, no matter what.
So in spite of all the unethical, dishonest, spiteful, biased and cruel tactics of the defense, and the loose, disorganized, disrespectful, interminable and inconsiderate climate of JSS's courtroom, 11 of the 12 jurors saw through it all to the truth, endured it all for the truth, and answered it all with the truth.
So in spite of the legal ramifications of the one holdout. I rate the final score:
Truth: 11
Falsehood: 1
TorisMom003
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That is the "big wig" for the site. He owns and operates the site. His name is one of them that was mentioned in that three way call that JA and MDLR was in on, if I am not mistaken. And for those that didn't know, some of the same JA supporters are/were also members of the CAII site that is/was also owned and operated by the guy that has the JAII site.
I believe that was brought up to the jury either by JM in closing statements or by the judge in the instructions. I think they got clarification about that after JM brought it up to the last jury and the DT went ballistic. I do believe the jury was permitted to know that LWP was an option and what that would mean.
MOO
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With all respect if this Judge does the right thing now it will only be to save her own skin! She has been so bias toward Jodi, what ever Jodi wanted Jodi got, it has been as plain as the nose on her face! I can't wait until all the secret transcripts make their way to the public! But at least Jodi did not get her conviction overturned yet!! But if Judge Sherry could do that you can believe she would!
Dave Erickson, TV producer/Journalist states on his Twitter page that he saw a male Juror dismissed during selection, because he told them he'd watched the Lifetime movie.... How does that work?
Hatfield
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Thats what really has floored me. I could have handled a "normal" vote by the jury of "Life", but the way this went down with the 1 holdout. Its just too much.
Every stinkin thing about this trial stinks.
dog.gone.cute
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RRBM: Wow ! but ya know what, I am NOT really surprised because so much of this re-trial was held IN CHAMBERS and SECRET !
This really needs to be looked into ... but I know, ain't gonna happen !
What a travesty for Justice for Travis and the Alexander Family !
Of course it is.
Yes, the ridiculous Rob Hensley. He is a fan of two brutal murderers; he obviously feels some reflected glory by associating with them .......what else can I say.
Hatfield
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RRBM: Wow ! but ya know what, I am NOT really surprised because so much of this re-trial was held IN CHAMBERS and SECRET !
This really needs to be looked into ... but I know, ain't gonna happen !
I wonder if back in October if that really was this same Juror and if Nurmi and Jodi met in chambers with the Judge AND the juror present all together?
If that happened, its no wonder the juror said she realized Jodi was not like the evil person in the movie. Because she may have had a personal meeting with her in secret chambers.
I hope that didnt happen, but if it did, it explains a lot.
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