Disposal of Naveah's body: Theories

[Scarlett]

idk sure would be interesting to know.

I would fall over in shock if Hi-Lite had any type of surveillance in the store. Seriously...the only reason to go there is for fried chicken.

 

[scandi]

Meanwhile Monday, stuffed animals and artificial flowers, a Precious Moments princess and a fairy with butterfly wings share space on a guardrail on the remote, two-lane Dixon Road.

Fifteen feet from the guardrail, the ground drops a precarious 60 degrees, falling 30 feet to the River Raisin.

It's a muddy climb down to the water, but several made it. There are more artificial flowers. And someone planted a cross on or near the spot where a body was found, covered with quick-set concrete Creepy...

snipped the above out of an article in freepress...explains just how steep the hill is.

I'm still sticking with the boat theory..nothings to heavy when you carry it in a boat! And at least locally here, it has not been said anywhere that police have discounted the boat theory that I know of...and how could they anyway? I mean really? It certainly makes the most sense to me. Also explains why she is SO close to river...when he was done, he could have just washed away his footprints..

Thanks Jashrema, That also corrects the distance from the road to the river as 30'. Is that how you would read that?

xox

 

[scandi]

I would fall over in shock if Hi-Lite had any type of surveillance in the store. Seriously...the only reason to go there is for fried chicken.

Hi Scarlett, Ta for the wonderful photos.

With that Monroe brewery right there on Terratorial {right?}, I bet those beer cans dot the landscape of the whole area.

 

[Scarlett]

ETA; the hole was not dug, it was already there, from what the fisherman said, link in next post.
[snip]
She apparently was fully dressed, like SC, perhaps buried alive like JL.

I don't see where the fisherman said that the hole was already there. IIRC, he has said that he had never been to that site before. In the link that you posted he said that he could tell there was a void there...which I would take to mean that it could have been there before of could have been dug to dispose of NB. He said that he assumed that someone just poured the concrete to fill a low spot, but I don't see where he said that the hole was there before, or how he could know that since he had never been there before.

WRT whether she was dressed...I remember one of the news stations reporting that she was nude. And in pressers, when questioned about what the body was found wearing, stated only that a shirt matching the description of NB's shirt was found WITH the body.

 

[panthera]

I am a bit baffled by the media reports.:waitasec:

First they report there were NO obvious signs of any violence/external trauma. No we hear the body is too decomposed so the relatives cannot identify it and in a very bad condition that the cause of death may be difficult to determine.

If the body is indeed in such a bad condition, how they can say no obvious signs of trauma?

I took it to mean gunshot wound, stabbing and the like. MOO

 

[Scarlett]

if whoever did this drove Nevaeh there, where would they have parked? it doesn't look like you can just pull to the side of the road right by where the body was located. does anyone know?

Yes, you can park there. You can pull right inside of the guard rail at the top of the embankment.

 

[scandi]

I took it to mean gunshot wound, stabbing and the like. MOO

I was also going to say even if a body is bloated and areas are darkened as happens, the coroner would still see areas where a body had been bruised, hit, etc. I watch Dr G allot and she is very thorough in explaining things like this.

 

[Scarlett]

Hi Scarlett, Ta for the wonderful photos.

With that Monroe brewery right there on Terratorial {right?}, I bet those beer cans dot the landscape of the whole area.

Actually, while I have heard of Custer beer, I have never seen it or drank it. I don't think I have ever seen an empty can lying around either. That is probably a good thing. It can't be too good, with Custer as its namesake and all.

I thought that the beer can was a Busch can, wasn't it?

ETA: your welcome wrt the pics. Should I re-post them here? I am just starting to venture out of the main thread and learn the rest of this forum. If I had known this was here, I would have posted them here in the first place.

 

[panthera]

I was also going to say even if a body is bloated and areas are darkened as happens, the coroner would still see areas where a body had been bruised, hit, etc. I watch Dr G allot and she is very thorough in explaining things like this.

Yes, you're so right!

 

[Dr. Know?]

Actually, while I have heard of Custer beer, I have never seen it or drank it. I don't think I have ever seen an empty can lying around either. That is probably a good thing. It can't be too good, with Custer as its namesake and all.

I thought that the beer can was a Busch can, wasn't it?

ETA: your welcome wrt the pics. Should I re-post them here? I am just starting to venture out of the main thread and learn the rest of this forum. If I had known this was here, I would have posted them here in the first place.

Scarlett, I have read about your pictures but don't know where they are? I hope you do post them here.

 

[scandi]

Actually, while I have heard of Custer beer, I have never seen it or drank it. I don't think I have ever seen an empty can lying around either. That is probably a good thing. It can't be too good, with Custer as its namesake and all.

I thought that the beer can was a Busch can, wasn't it?

ETA: your welcome wrt the pics. Should I re-post them here? I am just starting to venture out of the main thread and learn the rest of this forum. If I had known this was here, I would have posted them here in the first place.

I think your phortos would be a real asset to this thread, especially as it deals with the disposal of Navaeh.

In Portland Or we have lots of breweries and one will very often see those who live on the streets picking up cans and bottles. That includes pop too ;} I assumed it would be that way everywhere. Here we have a 5 cent refund per can or bottle, for most of them, so they make their money this way. xox

 

[Scarlett]

Site pics from embankment. I could not make it down to the bank of the river. As someone already posted, it is 30 feet down at a 60% incline. I was in a suit and heels. I am planning on dragging hubby and a camcorder back to the site so we can get a few questions answered.

That being said, I feel compelled to say that it was a very sobering experience. Just trying to wrap my brain around how someone could place a small child there, as if she had no worth, just a piece of trash. While I was there I couldn't help but have images of her lying there, in a fetal position, face down...such a terrible position. Then I pictured her on her side in the fetal position, though I don't know why. Now the actual area where she was laid is filled in (to an extent) and we don't know exactly how deep the hole was.

Anyway...

walking toward the embankment

behind me as I walked toward the embankment

approaching embankment...notice you cannot see the bank because the drop is so steep. the water you see is 30 feet below where I am standing

looking down the path...she was laid on the bank to the left in the pic

close up of path

close up of where she was laid on bank...memorials are there now

another of the memorial

distance shot of memorial

left side of path...the grass has been trampled by LE/ME and visitors, but was not trampled before

 

[scandi]

Thanks Scarlett, You can see where the small campfire was too, to the right of the gravesite facing the river.

In your photo #4, what are those light colored things. I see a couple of rocks, but these look like newspaper.

 

[Scarlett]

Thanks Scarlett, You can see where the small campfire was too, to the right of the gravesite facing the river.

In your photo #4, what are those light colored things. I see a couple of rocks, but these look like newspaper.

In the path? With the exception of the very white thing at the bottom (part of a memorial that was blown off and onto the base of the path) they are all stones.

 

[bessie]

I would fall over in shock if Hi-Lite had any type of surveillance in the store. Seriously...the only reason to go there is for fried chicken.

Thank you for the pics, Scarlett. They are very good and really help to put things in perspective.

I read on a local forum last week that there is an ATM with surveillance camera either in front of or inside Hi-Lite. Can you confirm?

 

[Scarlett]

Thank you for the pics, Scarlett. They are very good and really help to put things in perspective.

I read on a local forum last week that there is an ATM with surveillance camera either in front of or inside Hi-Lite. Can you confirm?

I don't think there is an ATM there, but I can drive out tomorrow and check. Is anyone on Eastern time? I will probably need a reminder.

I am logging off for the night. I will catch up with you all tomorrow.

 

[yosande]

My personal opinion is if she was alive as she was going to that site, she went submissively. JL didn't fight, and she was 3 years older, iirc. Fear will cause a child to be subdued, and will not fight the authority figure, imo.

I also expect she was assaulted before she arrived at that scene, so she was probably in a lot of pain at that point, though the perp could have drugged her, and likely did.

Since LE has said there is no outward appearance of trauma, I would surmise that she wasn't kicked, or dragged down the hill. She wasn't tossed out of a boat.

Imo, the hole was already there, she was told to lay down, cover her face, and be quiet. Then he pour the dry cement over her, got water from the river, and poured it over the cement. He drowned her in wet cement.
That's what I think he did.
I don't know if the marker stones were already there. I don't know if the hole was used in the past for a bon fire. It makes sense that it would. It makes sense that he knows the area, at least from his own past.

So my question is, was anyone who was in school with the mom, in prison, and got out at the same time or more recently than her? Can we place the mom knowing the area, and having a past with it?
I hate to, but I guess I'll keep searching for info.
My desire is that these children are found alive, and once they are found, to me, it's done. I don't enjoy hanging around after the fact.
It's too horrible to think of what she went through.
The family court system seriously needs to pay closer attention to the enviroment these dear children are placed in, and the welfare of the child should take precedence over the biology of the parents.
My heart breaks for nevaeh. Her clenched teeth smiles remind me of Caylee, fake. Her eyes shows such sorrow.
My heart truly breaks for this little girl.
May she be held tenderly in the arms of the Loving God, where children are the priority.
moo

ETA; My sitter told me today that she observed two children being forced out of their gradma's home and placed with their mother, who had just been released from prison, for drug related crimes. These children begged, and cried out to not have to go with her.
Please pray for these children, for their safety, I beg you all.

 

[yosande]

I don't see where the fisherman said that the hole was already there. IIRC, he has said that he had never been to that site before. In the link that you posted he said that he could tell there was a void there...which I would take to mean that it could have been there before of could have been dug to dispose of NB. He said that he assumed that someone just poured the concrete to fill a low spot, but I don't see where he said that the hole was there before, or how he could know that since he had never been there before.

WRT whether she was dressed...I remember one of the news stations reporting that she was nude. And in pressers, when questioned about what the body was found wearing, stated only that a shirt matching the description of NB's shirt was found WITH the body.

Scarlett, the fisherman did say it looked like a void, ie, and empty space, I did assume that it didn't appear to be a freshly dug hole, and that it was there already. No fresh dirt hanging around. He filled the hole with a child and cement. I suppose he could have thrown the dirt in the river, but holes are harder to dig than one might imagine, and I think it was already there. I think he had the place picked out in advance, but the only thing he prepared was the time of day. I think he probably carried the cement with him. I don't know how much quik dry cement would be needed. I didn't get the impression that the slab was very thick as it was breaking fairly easily. I don't know how many bags he would need. I guess I'll go find out. This subject, and imagery is making me nauseous.
I also read the clothes matched what she was last seen wearing, so knew her clothes were found with her. I did leap to the assumption that she had them on, as I can't imagine a perp just throwing her clothes under her, or around her.
I'm of the mind that she was alive when she got there, so in my mind she is dressed.
My thinking of the perp is he is lazy. He didn't dig the hole, and he didn't carry her down there. The only thing he carried was the cement. I don't know how much it weighs. I don't think he used a boat, but it's possible.
I think if he would have used a boat, he would have found a more secluded spot, no I think he drove her there. The fisherman made the assumption that what he saw was her back, he didn't see clothes on that skin.
I guess I just think that if she was alive, he wouldn't have to make the effort to carry her. The whole scene speaks of laziness on his part, imo.
It wouldn't surprise me if it was one of the older SO.
But I don't have much info, and my posts are full of speculation, and assumptions.
Tear them up at will, I don't mind.
moo

ETA; This article says clothes were found on the body.

Investigators told her family the clothes found on the body match what the missing 5-year-old was wearing when she disappeared two weeks ago. But investigators’ forensic tests are trying to match DNA evidence to Nevaeh, heaven spelled backward.
http://www.freep.com/article/20090608/NEWS05/90608021

 

[Donjeta]

If there was a void already there, the person disposing of the body may have frequented the place, fishing, canoeing or otherwise. He could have gotten lucky and stumbled upon it by accident while searching for a burial site but it seems more likely to me that he knew about it.

 

[Steely Dan]

My personal opinion is if she was alive as she was going to that site, she went submissively. JL didn't fight, and she was 3 years older, iirc. Fear will cause a child to be subdued, and will not fight the authority figure, imo.

I also expect she was assaulted before she arrived at that scene, so she was probably in a lot of pain at that point, though the perp could have drugged her, and likely did.

Since LE has said there is no outward appearance of trauma, I would surmise that she wasn't kicked, or dragged down the hill. She wasn't tossed out of a boat.

Imo, the hole was already there, she was told to lay down, cover her face, and be quiet. Then he pour the dry cement over her, got water from the river, and poured it over the cement. He drowned her in wet cement.
That's what I think he did.
I don't know if the marker stones were already there. I don't know if the hole was used in the past for a bon fire. It makes sense that it would. It makes sense that he knows the area, at least from his own past.

So my question is, was anyone who was in school with the mom, in prison, and got out at the same time or more recently than her? Can we place the mom knowing the area, and having a past with it?
I hate to, but I guess I'll keep searching for info.
My desire is that these children are found alive, and once they are found, to me, it's done. I don't enjoy hanging around after the fact.
It's too horrible to think of what she went through.
The family court system seriously needs to pay closer attention to the enviroment these dear children are placed in, and the welfare of the child should take precedence over the biology of the parents.
My heart breaks for nevaeh. Her clenched teeth smiles remind me of Caylee, fake. Her eyes shows such sorrow.
My heart truly breaks for this little girl.
May she be held tenderly in the arms of the Loving God, where children are the priority.
moo

ETA; My sitter told me today that she observed two children being forced out of their gradma's home and placed with their mother, who had just been released from prison, for drug related crimes. These children begged, and cried out to not have to go with her.
Please pray for these children, for their safety, I beg you all.

:clap: